Noob on the Cheap

I have a little experience growing outdoors. We basically used large numbers to guarantee success and were at the mercy of the seasons. Long story short, the land we grew on is no longer available to us and I am not the type that would even consider guerrilla growing.

I have ready many, many, posts on this board and am very excited. At the same time, the more I read, the more differing views I get. So I have decided to just jump in, splash around and hope If I am not able to swim a lifeguard will come to my rescue.

This log will be for tracking my mistakes and, hopefully, getting advice as I am sure to make many of the same mistakes I have read about here. American eagerness sometimes triumphs over ingenuity.

My goal is to produce only for personal use and to be able to dictate my high. In my outdoor grows this was accomplish be timing the harvest alone. We would harvest in three phases, each phase producing a different high from the same crop. I know understand why, before I was just told that was how you did it.

I have purchased 2 large rubbermaid storage containers for making a portable grower, but have not begun the construction.

I have three 6500k CFLs, 26W = 100W variety.
1 oscillating fam, 1 box fan and 3 pc fans
JiffyStrips jiffy pots (although I am accustomed to nursing sprouts in egg cartons prior to translanting to buckets with handles for outdoor, but time to learn new tricks)
Seed starter mix consisting of a sphagnum peat moss, vermiculite, perlite and "other" ingredients - lightweight, free of weeds.

I have a large collection of seeds from 5 different strains. I do not know their names or anything scientific about them. One was chosen because it has been my favorite and I was fortunate enough to be given 10, presumed to be female seeds. I will wait until I have a well defined and successful process before I risk these seeds.

The other 4 types were chosen in hopes that one will prove to be hearty.

For my initial germination I attempted to chose 3 female seeds (based upon chart found here) from each of the 4 strains.

I thoroughly wet a wash cloth, placed the 15 seeds on top and placed in a large zipper lock bag.

April 6 -
checked on seeds, 7 have cracked with a sprout, with tweezers I placed the cracked sprouts in the soil attempting to have tap facing down. I barley placed below soil line and covered. Then placed under 24 hr light.

FYI - because I have not completed my rubber maid grower, I cannot assure total darkness so I am going to go with 24hr light until complete darkness is available to me.
They are simple on a table in an extra room with the light a couple of inches above.

April 7 -
The remaining 8 seeds have cracked and I followed the same process as above.

I know have all 15 germinated and in soil, but there has not been any separation of the seed shell.

Please wish me luck!

For those of you that use seeds, when do you move to dirt? After separation from the seed shell?

Thanks!

I moved mine into the dirt as soon as the taproot showed itself. In all honesty though, geminating in the soil is just as effective. Main reason for germinating in paper towels is to satisfy curiosity IMO

Hey Cede, I use the paper towel method, as soon as the taproot pops out I put them in the soil. The seed then gets pushed through the soil as the stem grows, the seed usually drops off when the stem is 1-2"s.

Good luck!

Thanks, Bomb and Hudson. Came home at lunch to check on them. The jiffy pots and seed starter soil does not retain much moisture. They were very dry. But the sprouts are poking through. About half have the seed stickin out a 1/4".

I will begin posting pix tonight.

As soon as the little sprouts show above the dirt, get a BUNCH of light on them. And yeah, you will have to watch the moisture very carefully at this stage, since they do not have a good root system yet, and those small pots dry out fast. It gets easier after the first transplant, which you will do in about 2 weeks, into a 4-6" pot.

Thanks, Stinky.

I had 3 6500k/26w/1600L CFL's on them but turned one off to see if that will help slow the drying of the soil.

I am able to come home for lunch most days to add water, but not always... And when I wake up in the morning they are arid.

Is this acceptable or should I go back to 3 and work on a method to keep moisture in the soil?

Thanks, again!

Keep the 3 on them, they shouldn't be producing too much heat, you're gonna need to add more of them soon anyway. What's the temps like?

Thanks, Hudson.

Prior to reading this post I made a few changes, pix to follow.

I am leaning towards going hydro, but I really am on a $50/week budget as per the wife. This is due to other ill fated projects and just happens to be my alloted medicine budget....

With hydro and eventual cloning in mind, I created a small box approx 12"w x 18"l x 24"h with 2 cfl's and 2 opening, one for intake the other for a small pc fan outtake. My third cfl is idle right now.

I also germed another 18 bag seeds although I placed them in regular potting soil in a recycled egg carton.

My room is approx 4' x 8' x 8' and I have no problem using all of the space, except of course my budget.

Cannot figure out how to attach pictures...:mad:

Temps:

Do not have the proper thermometer. But... it was 82c after 8 hours under the box. I haven't installed the fan yet but hope to do so tonight or tomorrow night.

Finally read the rules..........

here are links to pix

The Room
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/n...0080407066.jpg

The small box
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/n...0080407067.jpg

Side View for intake/outtake
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/n...0080407070.jpg

Germed seeds waiting
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/n...0080407069.jpg

Sprouts of some bag seeds in regular potting soil
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/n...0080407068.jpg

Made a few changes and temps have gone way up.

I re-connected the third CFL and went about light-proofing the closet with black plastic (like is used in gardening).

This took about 20 minutes. By chance I had left the thermometer out and noticed the temperature in the closet had risen to 78c. It had been in the high 60's a few hours earlier. The outside temp had dropped to the low 60s. I then took a reading in the box and it was 96c.

I still do not have fan connected to the box and do not want to cut the third cfl off so I cut 2 holes in the top of the box to allow heat to rise out. 15 minutes later this had lowered the temp inside to 91c.

Because I am in 24 hr light now, and I have the entire closet light proof I desiced to raise the entire box 3 inches to allow for additional airflow/circulation or heat exhaust, whatever...

After 10 minutes this brought the temp down to 87c in the box.

Will these 3 day old seedlings survive this? I saturated the soil a bit, but do not want to get them too wet and they are going to have to go about 7 hrs max between waterings.

I guess my question is what is the better short term plan, allow them to sit in this heat, or cut back to 2 CFLs?

I am now thinking I am going to need more than a little pc fan if I am going to run 3 lights in this little box, or have to move to a larger box sooner than later.

All advice is greatly appreciated :mad:

Since you already have the rubbermaids, I would go ahead and start building one. Check out my grow in my sig. I just started like 2 and a 1/2 weeks ago with rubbermaids and germinating in soil and all. You can look through the pics and see how it all progressed. I'm just using 1 of the tubs right now for the seedlings.

IMO you want to keep your temps no higher than 80F, they will survive short periods of around 90F, but if you keep your temps to 80F you've got a bit of room for normal temp fluctuations, like when there's a really hot week. You need to sort out your fan and see what the temps are like then, you might be surprised at how effective your fan will be at cooling your box, until then just use the two lights. You need to start thinking about the next phase of your grow now tho and ideally get it set up and tested before the plants need to go in. Soon you're gonna have to move your plants to bigger pots, they're not all gonna fit in that tiny box and you're gonna need more lights.

Good luck!

Thanks Bijnas and Hudson.

I placed a box fan next to it and it has brought the temps down. I will get the exhaust fan in today and hope to pick up a couple of thermometers that will log temp ranges.


I hope to have rubbermaid ready in the next 2 days. I just have to find a light vanity that will handle 80wx3 that is within my budget. so I may use y-connectors to expand to 6 cfls.

My current set up has a max of 40wx3.

Day 3 pix

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/n...0080409008.jpg

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/n...0080409007.jpg

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/n...0080409006.jpg

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/n...0080409005.jpg

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/n...0080409004.jpg

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/n...0080409003.jpg

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/n...0080409002.jpg

installed fan last night and temps are way down. This morning i got a reading of 69 after a fairly cool night outside. This afternoon temp was a nice 74 with a nice 77 outside. This will be but to the test when summer temps arise.

I am concerned about over/underwatering. I am fighting the urge to water every time I check on them, which my wife says is way too often.
The top layer of soil gets dry fairly quickly but I can see the discoloration in the bottom of the peat pots and know there is moisture there. I am also handling pots in order to get a good feel for the weight which has been noticeable the one time I think they were overly dry.

I moved the lights back up to about 4" away from tallest seedlings. Half of them are 2 days older and about three times taller. Will post new pix tonight.

Glad to hear you sorted your heat problem. How often are you watering them? As they're so young and you say they seem to be drying out quickly i'd probably water once a day. Try and get that light closer in the next couple of days, the closer the better with cfl's, try for around 2".

Thanks, Hudson,

For now, I think I have the heat solved, but when I add the flower room and outside temps get into the high 90's I am probably going to be challenged again.

I have been watering multiple times a day. The plants appear to me to be looking great. But I really do not know what warning signs I need to be watching for. I have read that the plants like to go through wet and dry periods but am assuming that is for mature plants. Rot, mold and stunted growth I assume are the dangers I need be on guard for with over watering.

I will post pix in a few hours.

So far so good? :cool:

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/n...0080410010.jpg

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/n...0080410007.jpg

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/n...0080410005.jpg

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/n...0080410004.jpg

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/n...0080410002.jpg

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/n...0080410005.jpg


http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/n...0080410004.jpg

great looking seedlings. During the numerous seedling deaths I've been responsible for I learned that if you can get your seedlings past 3 weeks of age then they will generally be able to survive anything else you throw at them within reason.

I vegged in CFL and am flowering with an HPS. I'm sure you can see how my grow is looking. If you can save some of that allowance money I would suggest you buy an hps. $50 a week is plenty of cash to buy some new grow gear if you consider that most plants will take at least 3-4 months from seed until harvest.

If you veg for 8 weeks that's $400. Plenty of cash for an HPS, cool tube and maybe a pair of inline centrifugal fans :).

There are many others on here way more experienced than me but I'll be happy to help with any problems that come along the way for you.

Good luck :thumbsup:

I appreciate it, daihashi.

I have already bought a rubbermaid box with a 3 outlet valance and y connectors for each outlet. This will give me a total of 6 42w (150w equiv) 2700k cfls in my flower box. I still have to figure out airflow and odor control but I have seen some great ideas here.

I definitely want to graduate to HPS. My current plan is to see this through with CFLs but by the time I am ready for flowering I may have a change of heart. Especially if I continue to see results like those you are getting. Did your plants eat your fan? :thumbsup:

Thanks for the feedback!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cede2Weed

I appreciate it, daihashi.

I have already bought a rubbermaid box with a 3 outlet valance and y connectors for each outlet. This will give me a total of 6 42w (150w equiv) 2700k cfls in my flower box. I still have to figure out airflow and odor control but I have seen some great ideas here.

I definitely want to graduate to HPS. My current plan is to see this through with CFLs but by the time I am ready for flowering I may have a change of heart. Especially if I continue to see results like those you are getting. Did your plants eat your fan? :thumbsup:

Thanks for the feedback!

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I wanted to do an all cfl grow but I had a change of heart once I realized my grow box wasn't going to be big enough. So I built a cabinet and couldn't bare to see it only hold cfl's.. so I bought an hps.

Did my plants eat my fan? what do you mean?

lol, I was referring to the oscillating fan that was so prominent in your early pictures. It is now undetectable due to the size and lushness of your canopy. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cede2Weed

lol, I was referring to the oscillating fan that was so prominent in your early pictures. It is now undetectable due to the size and lushness of your canopy. :D

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Actually I had to remove it completely. The plants got too big for that space and something had to go. I still have air circulating across the canopy... just not oscillating.

Oh no!!!!

Made some changes to my closet this afternoon. Added some wattage, so far so good.

Well, I just went out to check on my babies and I found a small bug/pest on one of the leaves. I was going to take a picture but I went ahead and killed the little guy.

I see no damage done to the leaf. Not sure what drew him in. I am in a converted utility/storage closet with an outside entrance. This is the first pest issue, atleast that I have noticed. Obviously the room isn't air tight.

This is the first big rain we have had since I started this project and I suppose it is possible that contributed.

Prior to anything I ran the shopvac in there really good. There was a few cobwebs and or spider webs in the upper corners.

This was a small round bug, almost like a beetlebug without wings.

Any suggestions? With my outside entry should I expect to be battling these little creatures for the duration?

thnks

I'd be interested to hear what the more experienced growers say about bugs coz I always get them. Never anything serious that appears to have much of an impact on my grow just a few tiny flying bugs (I know I should look around to find out what they are) that I seem to be able to keep under control with some bug spray thats for edible fruit bearing plants.

I think it's enevitable wherever you grow that bugs are gonna find a way into your grow room from time to time (it's warm and got that sweet smell, jeez i'd live in my grow room if I could) , I just give them a spray and make sure they're not eating my plants or making them sick. I remember a while ago reading about some sort of insect (can't remember what it was now) that you can put in your grow room and it will eat all the other bugs but leave your plants alone. Does anyone know about this bug? Or was it just a stoned dream I've had lol

Seedlings have reached 7 days in dirt, seems much longer...

Growing has slowed but I am started to see some separation with the second set of leaves. I am watering twice a day. Does anybody think they can stand more water, less water, or continue as I have been doing.

They are now under 200w of cfl equivalent. They should probably have more light and I hope to have wiring ready some time this week with the goal to double wattage.

Temps have been maintained in the low 70's.

I purchased a couple of cheap soil test kits but do not think I need to use until I transplant and begin using nutes. Also purchased the foxfarms three pack. Hopefully they will be ready for transplant next weekend.

Day 7 in dirt

I wish I could stick'em in a time machine, patience is a virtue I sorely lack!

Some of my leaves are dropping to the point they are touching the soil. They look perfectly green and healthy but are drooping.

Could this be because I am over-watering? Please tell me it is not something more serious. :wtf:

Hey Cede,

Looking good, they've done well in them 7 days. I know just what you mean about it seeming longer, I look at mine a few times a day and every time I hope that they've grown into huge bushes and are ready to flower lol

Think you're right with the droopy leaves being coz of overwatering, it's hard to get the balance rght the first couple of weeks, try cutting down to watering once a day and see how they react to that, don't worry about them getting dry they're not gonna die without water for one day.

Keep up the good work!

Thanks, Hudson. No water today. Those little peat pots dry out so fast....

Another concern is their proximity to the light bulbs. I have my ventilation working well and have moved all the plants 1" from the cfls. They have been this way for a few days. I try to rotate the plants so they all end up getting even light but I haven't done such a good job. The two that have grown the most were the closest to their respective cfls. Could heat have been an issue with the drooping leaves? Just can't get their saggy-state off of mind. Hopefully, when I get home they will have perked up.

Hey,

Yeah the heat that the cfl's produce will dry out them peat pots pretty quickly. Might be worth moving them to 2" from the plants to reduce the heat a little for now. Then when you put them in bigger pots which don't dry out so quick you can get them closer again. When you thinking of transplanting? I would think about doing it now, I transplant mine at about 2 weeks but I start them in bigger pots than yours so you should probably do it around the 7-10 day mark anyway. I find things always become easier and really start growing after the first transplant.

Well, Hudson, I have a dilemma there. Obviously, I did not think things our thoroughly. I have 20 plants going now. I expect that vast majority to be female. I used a chart I found on the boards here that shows you how to determine the sex of seeds. It may be BS, but I have hope. I also expected some of the seedlings to not make it. Long story short, I do not have room for 20 in larger pots. 10 of them are a few days older than the first 10. I expected attrition to lower my count, then I could select the healthiest of the remaining for transplant into larger pots.

The more time I have invested in this, the less confidence I have they are all female.

They are currently in 2"x2" peat pots. I have looked at the bottom and a couple of them has a root protruding through the bottom. I simply tucked them back into the pot. With these pots being degradable, I expected to see some root trying to break through and that would be my indicator to transplant. I agree with you, I am not going to be able to wait that long.

Original goal was to have 5 or 6 thriving females out of the 20 seedlings. I am now getting greedy and want to find a way to keep them all though I know this will not be possible.

I have read on here in several places by several respected posters. that they all try to limit transplants to 3 or 4 max. I believe the max pot size I am going to be able to use is 3 gal. At a gallon per foot of height, that would limit my height to 3'. Which I would not have a problem with if I could keep 10 plants going. I also plan on LST and am giving serious consideration to SCROG. This would further limit the height I could get in 3 gal pots.

I really am not interested in pre-flowering to determine sex and then going back into veg. Do not want to pay the 2 weeks price...

So I am probably going to go into flower at 12" tall with the plan of SCROG to a max height of 24" in 3 gal pots.

Forgive my rambling, but do you think I could get away with transplanting to 4"x4" pots for now? I believe I can fit 20 of this size. Then, at some point reducing to 10 plants and doubling the pot size. Or should I go ahead and thin the heard to 10 now and get them in larger pots with the reality of ending up with only the 5 most vigorous plants?

Hey cede,

That was pretty long lol I'm pretty baked and that was kinda hard to get my head around. You can use the 20 4"x4" if you like but they're not gonna last long, i'd sooner go to a bigger pot myself. You'll probably need to transplant again before flowering and you'll have the same problem. If you can get 12 pots (6"x6") in the space I'd say that was the right number but 10 is still pretty close if you can't. I usually end up with a couple more females than males but i've only had a couple of grows so maybe I just got lucky.

OK. I have moved 11 of the 20 into 5" round containers. These 11 are the ones that have started showing the second set of leaves.

Hudson, you were right on about being root-bound. The ones with the leaves sagging the most had the most well established root system. Those that were not sagging were easily transplanted, as the dirt just fell away. I wish I would have taken pictures.

So I have 3 I am concerned about. After transplanting they are drooping even more. Their color is still a vibrant green, but they just look very lazy. One even appears to have a fold in a leave. I read somewhere on here that may be due to high ph of the water. I have been using plain tap water that I have not tested. I have purchased soil test kits but not for water, YET.

Will try to get pictures up later. Time to CHILL :rastasmoke: