The importance of a continuous canopy: It's all about EFFICIENCY, baby!

I wanted to write a thread about efficiency.

We often see new growers planting a seed into a huge pot 'to avoid transplanting', assuming that the act of transplanting is traumatic to the plant.

So first off, I'd like to say... IT'S NOT! As long as you do it correctly, the plant will benefit from a correct transplant schedule.

So, why do we transplant? There are several reasons, and you should understand the theory behind all of them.
First up is the plant's ability to use all the soil moisture in its pot. A plant that is MUCH too small for its pot can't get to the corners of the pot with its small root system, and as a result, moisture may sit and stagnate, causing root rot, anaerobic/reducing conditions in the soil, and unwanted interactions between fertilizer components. A plant too LARGE for its pot will use water so fast that you can't keep up with watering, and any slight changes in the soil chemistry can lead to wild pH fluctuations.

Second, the soil itself changes over time, as particles break down, buffering ability is used up, and nutrients are leached out by the activity of roots or flushing action. Old soil in a pot will get to a point where pH changes (usually drops, since most commerical media are peat-based and peat haas a natural pH around 5.0-5.5). As larger pieces of soil material break down, the interstitial spaces between them also get smaller, and the soil holds water very differently. Drainage starts to slow, and the roots again end up sitting wet and stagnant.

Third, and this is what I want to show pics of, plants potted in large pots simply don't make effective use of either light or space. The goal of an indoor or greenhouse grower is to maintain a continuous canopy so that no light is lost to the soil surface. This is illustrated in the pictures attached, and called 'supercropping' in the nursery world.

First we see a flat of vegetables sown directly into a tray. This is broadleaf sage BTW. These will be pricked off into their own pots shortly.
Next, is some young heirloom tomatoes "Mortgage Lifter" sown in nursery 6-pax.
Next is cannabis given the same 6-pax treatment.
Then we have a bunch of cannabis seedlings that have been potted-up to 3" pots.
Finally, some vegging cannabis in 6" pots.

Notice that the space BETWEEN the plants under the light is always minimized!

Not only seedlings should be treated this way. Any plant, regardless of propagation method, should be allowed to get just a hair rootbound, then allowed to dry out a bit, before gently upending the pot while supporting the soil and stem with a flat hand, rapping it on the bottom, and letting the intact rootball slide out.

Shown is what your root ball should look like when you transplant.
The next pic is a bunch of clones that have just been potted into 2.5" peat pots and can be carried around in a tray and stuck wherever there's a 1x2 foot bright spot in the grow room. I do the hardening-off during this period; the ones with domes are a week 'younger' than the ones without.
Next, is those same clones given a week or so of veg time to establish a healthy root system and stuck under a HPS1000 to grow on and flower- I don't want to re-pot them until they NEED it, so they are still in those little pots! lol
Finally, 2 pics of a flower room that shows new arrivals, month-flowering plants, and a few large retired moms in the back corners blocking off those dark edges of the room.

great post :thumbsup: very informative, i wondered about starting in 4" pots versus jiffy cubes but i think you answered my questions :)

excellent job....are those one gallon pots your flowering in or bigger?

Those are 1 gallons that fairly recently-rooted clones are flowering in.
In the background, retired moms are flowering in 3 gallon squares.

so its ok to have them standing close together, a friend said to do that too, because the plants race each other to get the light which makes them grow faster.
thanks stinky, always with the good info.

I totally agree, letting the plants get rootbound before transplanting really seems to make them enjoy the larger environment more. And it really helps when trying to get them out of the smaller pots... you don't have clumps of soil falling out everywhere and disturbing underdeveloped roots.

Great post! I'd rep ya for it (like you really need more reps anyway ;)), but I gotta spread some around first.

Great post stinky. So what in general are your recommended repotting intervals and what size pots should be used?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by killerweed420

Great post stinky. So what in general are your recommended repotting intervals and what size pots should be used?

---

Okay well I wish I could give precise times but this is something that you have to get a feel for yourself.
Light, temps, strain, water, medium, drainage/lightness, food, CO2, humidity all impact how the plants' roots will spread out in the pot they are given. You will learn over time how fast your plants grow into their homes. I would definitely recommend re-potting every 6 weeks or less, so choosing a pot that your plant will fill with roots in a month is a good start.
I go from 2oz per cell 6-pax to 3" pots to 6" quart pots to 3 gallon pots with from-seed plants.
I go from rapidrooters to 2.5" or 3" pots to gallon pots for flower for from-clone plants running SOG, or if given 2+ weeks' veg time, there is another re-pot step up to 3 gallon pots at about week 3 of flower, when stretch is ended and I can tell the ultimate size of the plant.

Nice info, Stinkster. :thumbsup:
All the way up to 1 gallon pots, I slide out the plant from the pot to check the root conditions. Slide back into pot when done checking.
Using care, it's never caused a problem. (unless I drop the darned thing, lol)
Quick, easy, no guesswork.

Girl You Got Mad Skill's!!!!!:thumbsup:;):rastasmoke::smokin::hippy ::D:)

Many thanks, this post along with so many more have helped out so much, and in the perfect frame of time no less.. Also everytime I read CultiModerVatorAtor it makes me crack up.. Good stuff.. Hope all is well with everyone on this saturday..
Peace
J

Ok ok.....I'll do it with smaller pots now.....you've convinced me. Thanks VERY much for adding ANOTHER HUGE CHORE into my already complex life. :D

These threads and concepts go hand-in-hand so here's a link to continue your reading on the subject!
http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-faqs...large-pot.html

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stinkyattic

... or if given 2+ weeks' veg time, there is another re-pot step up to 3 gallon pots at about week 3 of flower, when stretch is ended and I can tell the ultimate size of the plant.

---

This is one thing I've never been clear on. From this part of your post you imply that the roots continue to grow throughout the flowering period. Is this, in fact, the case? Is there a time when the roots do not grow anymore?
I've always re-potted before flowering and then allowed a couple of weeks veg thinking that's enough time for the roots to spread out into the pot.

Roots continue to grow throughout the plant's life. They grow fastest when they have fresh, light soil to grow into. If you give too large a pot, they just keep growing- it can even appear the the plant is just SITTING there not doing much, but all the action is underground. There's a balance you have to find between root and shoot growth.

Thanx stinky good thread

OK, I'm convinced enough to at least give it a try. Makes sense to me. So crazy it might just work. Thank you stinky, and Weedhound for giving me the heads-up.

(walking to the closet to unearth some youngsters)

First of all good post... i've seen a lot of people who miss this aspect and come asking why there plants have a stunted growth (Then as u pick up the pot u feel the inbalanced weight between the top of the pot and the bottom)

To add some information if wanted:
Symptoms that the plant needs a transplant: Plants that have roots that are being limited from a small pot normally have a small amount of branches and overly strech upwards.

After a transplant (which is the second most traumatic experience for a plant. the first being the clonation) the photosintesis and the production of cloraphil is slowed, therefore it is recommended to transplant at the last hours of the day. That way the plant can recover at night. Also the transplanted plants should have a softer light for 2 days, therefore the leaves can grow at the same rithym that the roots can contribute water and nutrients.

Tranplanted plants require low levels of nitrogen and potasium, while needing higher levels of phosphorus. Any product that contains Trichoderma fungi or vitamin B1 will help to reduce the shock of the transplant. Obviously is if the transplant is done correctly, textbook, then there won't be signs of stress.

In jorge Cervanes there is a table that u can use to know when to transplant. Here it is:
2-6 weeks pot of 10 cm
6-8 weeks pot of 7,5 Liters
6-8 weeks pot of 11 Liters
2-3 months pot of 19 L
6-18 months pot of 38 L


(important note: as stinkyattick said, it depends on ur situation and very important is the strain) Also if you use "Spin-out" the plant can stay in a smaller pot longer.

Question for stinkyattic: Why do u wait for the soil to be alil dry before doing the transplant? any particular reason?

Is spin-out a chemical pruner? I don't believe in those. I feel that they are stressful, and that instead if you want to buy time, you should use an enzyme such as Cannazyme to break down only the DEAD roots. But even that should be approached with caution, as it tends to release a burst of nitrogen back into the pot from the broken-down material.

I wait until the soil is dry because it is slightly shrunken compared to wet soil, so it slides out more easily. Furthermore, a very wet root ball is heavy and can actually break apart under its own weight while moving. IF you do it on the dry side, the plant will barely notice the transplant until it feels all that nice SPACE, lol!

haha, thanx. I used to always wet them alil giving kind of a mold to it so it doesnt break apart easily incase the roots haven´t really started makiing that mold themselves (especially in the earlier transplants). but i like ur reasoning

Well ya, spin-out is classified as a chemical pruner but i really wouldnt say it prunes the roots. You paint the inside of the pots with this copper hydroxide mix; the roots grow and just before touching the sides of the pot they turn around, never entering in contact with the chemical. these plants are said to have more roots and more evenly distributed throughout the center of the pot, making them easier to mantain and allowing them to last longer in there pots before needing a transplant. I just think about the possible protection that the roots have when they are not in contact with the bottom or sides of the pot.

so stinky, should the root ball be minimized in some way when transplanting, or should the older soil go directly into the new pot with the new soil surrounding it? i'm guessing the roots are better off continuing to get longer when they stretch to the new bottom.
but i seem to be wondering if it would be beneficial to eliminate some of the old soil so more of the roots touch new soil and nutes.

If you wait until the correct time to transplant, fresh roots will be exposed simply by removing the pot. I never try to remove soil, as that can damage the roots more than just the little scuffing-up of the corners of the root ball that many growers like to do during transplant.
The major exception to this is keeping a bonsai mother plant over a long period of time, but that's a topic for another thread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stinkyattic

If you wait until the correct time to transplant, fresh roots will be exposed simply by removing the pot. I never try to remove soil, as that can damage the roots more than just the little scuffing-up of the corners of the root ball that many growers like to do during transplant.
The major exception to this is keeping a bonsai mother plant over a long period of time, but that's a topic for another thread.

---

Stinky, is there a thread on that already, and does it include how to do it hydroponically? if so, please point me in that direction.

i'm trying to set up a SOG so any info on the care and maintainence of mommas is appreciated.

(oh yeah, thanks for the rep the other day)

thanks stinky...yea i was thinking of running the ball under water to remove the soil but they may only further the possibility of damaging the roots during the transplant.

you're the best :thumbsup:

i believe the pictures you posted stinky are pictures of heaven

It was good while it lasted, and it WAS heaven... this is the view out the greatroom window... and drive in on a snowy twilight... ahhh *tear

Looks like its been a while since anyones posted here, but i just wanted to say wherever those pictures were taken reminds me of Montana. I moved to Texas this year. :(

Stinky - from seed in Fafard's potting mix, started with dixie cups. Starting as germinated seed, the plants spent 16 days in the dixie cup before being transplanted to 5.5" square pots where they have spent the last 2 weeks. About how long before I should consider repotting in 3 gal. buckets?

jkalb- That's Vermont at its wintry finest. Looks just like that today, actually! We got snow last night. Gorgeous.

Das- Kinda depends on your plans for the plants, and how fast they grow.
IF you plan to flower them in 3 gal pots, wait until they are as big as you want to put them into 12/12 at, then stick em in 3's and GO!
If you are keeping them as moms, or the 3 gal pot is not the last pot and you will be flowering in 5 or 10g, let them get good and rootbound in the quart pots, and transplant them before they show stress. You will be able to tell because they suddenly seem to use up all their water SO much faster and need more frequent waterings.
If you are keeping them as moms, you can even go to an intermediate pot like a gallon size before going up to the 3.

Stinky id like to say that your tread is very informative. I thought it was funny when i reading the first two lines that you wrote on your first post and I thought of myself. :)

I know this thread is long cold but I have something to throw on the fire. First though, mad props to you, Stinky, for this an all the other wonderful stickies. Awesome. Let me know when your book is coming out. I'll bike over for a signed copy!

My question is, have you ever seen Rootmaker pots? They are tiered (square at the smaller sizes which I've read elsewhere is beneficial) and include openings for air. They are supposed to promote horizontal root growth. A little pricey but for my op I can pop for a few. I'm curious. Seems like they might also find application in a flood table? Thoughts appreciated.

Great post, pretty much sums up why I left hydro for dirt. Trying to fill every canopy hole with a leaf and then to avoid crowding for air circulation, can become quite the puzzle. Pots give me that freedom of movement of individual plants.
How thick would you estimate your production layer? Does it vary with type of light?

400 watt fixtures I try for less than 2 feet of bud and nothing under that.