Third Grow

I am at Day 19 of flower in my third grow with 9 Master Kush. My bins drain completely this time around and my roots are super huge which I think I owe to the drainage. I am having some yellowing for some reason, but I just changed the res and upped the PPM to 1100 last night so hopefully they will turn around. The plants really took off in veg which I was not expecting, so I had to tie a few of the plants down to keep them away from the 1KW HPS bulb.

The first pic is my whole grow area, except a couple on the right got cut off. My room is too small to get far enough back to fit everything in. Second pic is the 4 plants on the right side and they are looking pretty good. One of the plants on this side is showing some yellowing in the main fan leaves but nothing major *yet*. The third pic is the left side, which is kinda the shaky side. Lots of yellowing on multiple plants. The last two pics are of my roots on each side. They got really big this time around! :jointsmile: They look sloppy in the last pic but the bin was still draining from the first feeding of the day.

Hopefully I will be able to update this log with photos of positive growth! :jointsmile::thumbsup:

Dejayue,

Very impresive grow so far.
Sorry I am a soil grower so I have no pointers for your current issues.

Deja....I think you may have the opposite problem now....too MANY roots.....you have MILLIONS. I think you may need to put them in a bigger container. Deja.....something to think about.....can you switch them to a DWC grow with some airstones or something. My problem is from too many roots.....I think yours may be as well.

Jesus dude.....nice roots. :thumbsup:

I really don't have any vertical space to spare with a bigger bin and I don't really know how to go about setting up a DWC. The plants are also completely bound together because of the root growth so if I did get bigger bins, they would have to use the same lid and I don't know how feasible that is. I'm hoping I can yield enough so that I can take a break from growing and maybe try a new technique. I haven't had as much luck as I thought I would with my current set up so something has to change.

Can you grab a photo of your room pretty quick when you have a chance. What you would need for a DWC is a large rubbermaid tub tub with lid....(how about the tub you are using as a res??) and hang them in the large tub...they can all be intermixed no problem....then a few airstones (many as you can) and an air pump to drive them and your nute solution. (check out my thread on how I built mine) How long dimensions of the lids the are in?

I'd agree with going to a different technique...i seriously think this time your problem is that that your plants are too big for your system and are rootbound. They need more room and they are sqeezing each other out for oxygen and nutrition.

They look great but you CAN see them starting to have issues. Good luck.

Here's my room. The only thing is, how would I get the tangled roots out of the lids they are into get them into a new bin? And how does the pumping and res and all that work in DWC? If I used a huge bin, wouldn't I need an even huger res? :wtf:

The lid dimensions is probably 18"x32". They are the ~7 gallon Rubbermaid bins from Wal Mart that cost me $3 each.

You have enough room......you won't have to add any height. No central res; each rubbermaid tub IS your res....one for each set of plants. You move those little tables, buy a couple rubbermaids that are big enough (but not too big) to fit the lids of your plants...same dimensions or slightly smaller. (Tip: You might even get take a bigger rubbermaid like the rubbermaid you have and cut the top of it to fit your smaller lid....you may need some extra support for the lid however....) You will need to be able to drill (or punch) 2 holes near the top of the rubbermaid to put add 2 1/4 inch airlines and two airpumps that will power at least a 30-60 gallon fishtank and four 10 inch airstones ((2 in each rez) I'll dig up a link to the kind I use to try and get some photos.

Fill tubs 1/2 way with your nute solution....add 2 10 inch airstones per bucket (hot gluing them to bottom helps) Usually 30-60 gal air pumps have two outlets in each pump and will power 2 airstones. Hang plants accross top letting bottom of roots dangle in the water. You should have the lower 1/2 of your roots in the water. (consider this when buying your rubbermaid....and that the roots WILL grow more.)

Now wait....I KNOW what you are thinking but its not the same as your deal. This is pretty much my setup and my plants generally work out ok right? Trust me here. The two airstones will circulate your mix and add plenty of O2 to the roots and help circulate both to those millions of roots. Your plants will draw up the water and the nutes as needed from the roots in the water. Thats called a deep water culture setup.

You'd be adding nutes and water directly from the top. Check and add water or nutes/adjust ph etc as often as necessary. No more ebb and flow.....plants stay this way 24/7. The key is enough airstones/oxygen, room for the roots, and keeping careful track of the plants' intake.

HA HA they look like huge christmas trees stuck in a little teeny pot. Those babies need more room!!

I know you aren't....but I'm pretty excited here. I honestly do not feel you have the same problem as your previous grows and I think a DWC will solve a lot of problems for you....very simple upkeep compared to what you are doing now. The plants look excellent generally despite their issues and the roots fucking rock!!

I am going to check out my options as far as bin sizes tonight after work. DWC seems like its just too simple. Just put the roots in water with some O2 and they grow? Sounds too good to be true!

I am hoping I can find some bins that will match my current lid size, but next time I flower I will probably alter the original lid so I can just switch the net pots over to flower when the time is right. Would it be acceptable to keep using the 4" pots? I was thinking I could use E&F for veg since the roots don't get too massive in veg, and then just move the net pots over to flower in the DWC bins. Would this work or are the 4" net pots choking the roots also?

I'm really hoping that since its before the half way mark, I can get these plants into a bigger container so I can finally get the kind of yiled I should be getting from my 1KW HPS bulb in order to properly celebrate April 20th!

Thanks for yor help as always Weedhound. Unfortunately I have to spread the rep around before giving you any more!

I picked up a 50 gallon res and two of those bubble curtain things. I like the amount of bubbles they produce compared to the stones. The stones seem to get clogged faster too. The only thing is keeping them suctioned to the bottom, but I am going to use glue to hold them down. So I will have a total of three bubble curtains in there because I have an extra one in my grow room after I switched back to the stone because it was too late to glue it down and the suctions didn't work. I'm just going to lay the two lids with my plants in them across the top of the 50 gallon bin for the next 4.5 weeks and cover the open area not covered by the lids with a trash bag and some mylar. Pretty ghetto, but hopefully it will do the trick. The fungus gnats are also back... :(

Deja....check out the last page of my C crowd thread.....link in my sig......what X-Crispi says about root suffocation.

I'd use something other than plastic to cover your dark spots.....even a towel or something would be better just because there is some air exchange with a towel or paper vs plastic.

I too have turned ghetto for the last few weeks of my grow. We seem to be battling the same issue.

I hope that works for you.....you deserve a good grow.

Ghetto or not you've given the roots tons more space :thumbsup:,

And DWC is that easy Deja . I wouldn't worry about the roots soufocating quite yet , you'll notice ph drop once they are really rotting good . Weedhound just cant get air to penetrate the giant mass / cube of roots in the upper halves of her containers . Your root system while huge , looks to be still penetrable by the air bubbles . I love the air curtains too BTW . less clog , no disenegration , washable -n- reuseable .

I think they'll come back strong and show you some love in return .
Peace bro.
Crispi :jointsmile:

Is your avvy a young Dave Mustaine ?

That boy has some roots THIS TIME doesn't he?? :D

WH- have you looked @ the Ario aerators? Whole sh^tload of aeration compared to airstones, now that yer getting into straight DWC. Better distribution through the res, too.

Deja....sorry to bust your thread but rhiz could you check my log and let me know what you think about these damn roots? I don't want to nurse that damn thing along if cracking it open isn't really going to help. I'd LOVE your thoughts.

Ok, conversion was completed in ~90 minutes. The old system is cleaned and on backup in case this one fails for some reason *knock knock*. The roots are starting to gradually sag into the water from the brick shape it was from being cramped into those bins. How much of the root mass should be in the water vs out of the water?

The only problem we ran into is that the sides of the res bow when filled half way with water, but the good thing is that duct tape holds them where they should be! :thumbsup:

Weedhound: Since you wouldn't use plastic to cover the open area because of air flow, would it be OK to just leave it open? The foliage is THICK over the area, so not much light can get through. The only real danger would be leaves falling in there and getting in the water/roots and maybe doing harm? I dunno, I'm new to this whole DWC thing obviously.:jointsmile: Here are some pics!

As long as you have your airstones going you can let alot dangle....at least 1/2 but more is ok. Its good to have a few inches between your net pots and your water level.
Check your ppms every day....going up or down?

PS....more airstones....more air happier plants....never hurts to add extras....;)

I think I might pick up a couple more curtains and another dual pump so I can put some on the ends. My only question is how in the hell I am going to clean this thing! What do you guys/gals do for maintainance and how often?

Well, a minor setback. The walls of the bin I selected are way too thin and one side collapsed, almost causing my plants to fall into my res! :mad: I used a big board and some bungee straps and wrapped the bungee around and put the board on the side that was bowing out to hold it firm. It is working pretty well for now. *knock knock*

I still think cleaning this new res is going to be quite a task because of how bushy my plants are and how small my room is. I have no where to put them in the mean time of cleaning the res. Can anyone reading this give me some insight on what you do to maintain your DWC res? Do you take the plant(s) out and scrub the res down or do you just pump the old water out and fill it up with new water?

Hey Deja....do the plants like it? My biggest rez is 20 gal and has a stop valve at the bottom so you can let the water out and then I fill from the top. Do you have room for a third tub (same size or something.....) that you can put the plants on. I use an extra square tub that I keep around and lift the plants out of one and put them on the other while I work. You wouldln't have to leave this tub in the growroom....bring it in on res change day.

Another thought....you can buy a few tubs and put one inside the other to support that weak side.

I think the wood will work for the next four weeks, at which time I will find a sturdier tub. The res is like 3.5' long and my room is only about 5' wide. I really don't have ANYWHERE in the room to put the plants because they got so big! I also can't get them through the door of the room very easily. I literally only have enough space for my plants, systems, a set of shelves, and one person in my grow room. :(

Do you scrub your res out every time you change or do you just drain and refill?

No I just drain and refill normally. At the very end of the grow I disinfect everything with bleach water, but not during the grow.

Man i cant wait to do a dwc. Thats what im going to do next winter instead of this soil grow junk I got goin on. Soils work well in the smmer when im out in the garden everyday.. but lugging all this soil and pots and junk around my yard in the winter doesnt make me feel safe. :) And it just seem such a simple (cheap) way to get into hydro grows. :)

It reallly is simple and cheap and you can get pretty much what you need between home depot and your local pet store.....or of course your local hydro store if you have one around.

PS....lugging water gets to feel just about as heavy as lugging soil.......plan for easy filling and emptying. ;)

To WH or anyone else that reads this and happens to grow or has tasted Master Kush:

What does your MK taste like? I don't think mine tastes as good as it should. It doesn't smell much, tastes sort of sweet, but the taste is sort of a little green and is on the harsh side of smooth if you know what I mean.

I currently have Headband ([OGK X MK] X Sour Diesel) and Lime Daddy (Lime X Grand Daddy Purp) from Northern Cali that I traded a friend some of my homegrown for, and it tastes so incredible and yet very different and I really want to develop the taste of my bud to the best it can be.

I dried at Jorge's recommended temps and humidity and it took about 4-5 days depending on the size of the bud. By the time they are dry, they don't have much smell either. I then cure them, opening twice a day for 15 minutes at a time and storing in a dark, cool place.

I just don't know where my problem lies in getting the outstanding taste and smell I should be getting. Any ideas?

Well.....I must say all mine taste the same.....to me at least.....they all taste like an off version of cigerettes so I'm afraid I'm no help there.

The SMELL however.....pretty strong from the MK and sort of piney smelling. That's a strain I've always enjoyed the scent of.....somewhat unique but very enjoyable.

I'm wondering if your plants being stressed in the last grow has something to do with the lack of smell and taste.

Ps...When I dont' flush enough my weed takes on a nasty sort-of "metallic" taste to it that I hate. The weed also seems more dry, almost over dry and crumbles easily.

Day 27 today. I got a double air pump and two more air stones that I put right up underneath the roots to provide more air. There is a lot of brown sludgy looking stuff on all the roots under the water. Is that normal?

Some of the leaves on my biggest plant are curling downward at the tips for some reason. There is also some yellowing that seems to be starting. I am going to swap some water out for some fresh stuff tomorrow, at which time I will post some pics.

I unfortunately cant offer any advice on the dwc system as I have no experience with it but I am thinking that it will be a cheap way to get experience in a hydro system and the results look amazing, so I definately am looking into it for next round and this looks like a great thread to get valuable information, so thank you and Good luck with everything. :thumbsup:

Deja...are you using a zyme product? If so stop if you would and when you whip up your next res batch can you add some H202? If you are using the 35% I would add 2 mls per gallon.

Also..what are your numbers.....check all your roots and make sure they have enough room in the tub.

I don't like the sound of brown sludge. How does the water smell? I think you need some H202 in there......

The water itself smells fine. Smells kinda like the Sweet I'm using. My pH has been around 5.5, my PPM is around 1250, and my temps are at around 67. I am not currently using a zyme, but I picked up some Hygrozyme today and was planning on using it tomorrow. The stuff on the roots is not so much a sludge as it is like a weird brown underwater fuzziness. I know thats a pretty poor description, but I tried taking a picture and I can't seem to get a good shot of it. Maybe I can try again tomorrow when there isn't as much water in there.

I used H2O2 yesterday, probably about a tbsp worth. It was the last of the bottle but I picked up some more of that today too. Should I dilute the H2O2 before applying it to the root zone? I was reading that Ask Lucas thread crispi gave me and it said you should never add nutes to the root zone without diluting them, so would H2O2 be the same way?

That is not a bad idea at all.....I generally use the 3% so I don't worry about dilution but yes, a good idea to mix up the 35% in some water and then add to your res. I like the idea of H202 better than a zyme at this point.....I want some extra O2 to your roots as well. ;)

Well, things aren't going exactly as planned. The wall of the res opposite the piece of wood is caving inward now. I changed out 10 gallons the other night and refreshed with new nutes, currently sitting right at 1300 PPM. I really don't know what to do about this bin I am using as my res. I already glued three bubble curtains to the bottom and they are $5 a pop so I don't want to have to go buy new ones. I was thinking about putting a tiny hole in the bin and anchoring it to the wall with some hemp. All I really need is to hold the wall of the res up because its too weak. Its currently low enough to where its sitting right at the water level. Its really strange how its ended up caving in so bad.

All in all though my plants look pretty healthy. There is some slight yellowing but I think that might have been due to my 10 day old res before I topped it off. Hopefully I will get some pics tomorrow after I decide what to do with my res.

Deja....can you go buy another two of them....exact same thing and stack one inside the other.....it will double the strength of your sides.

I think I am going to pick up another bin tonight. Do you think I should put the old one inside the new one or just do away with the old one because its caved in on one side? Also, do you think just one more will be fine or should I get two more? I am only wondering because they are $20 a piece and I'd rather only have to spend $20 on one more if I don't need three.

Put the old one inside the new one.....that will double the strength of the sides. We use the big plastic trashcans for our horses and they bump and bend them.....2 or 3 big trashcans one inside the other solves the problem. If it's good for horses.....it's good for your plants....:D

edit....I'd hope two would be plenty.......

Well, I picked up two just in case. I only fill it about half full, maybe a little more, so hopefully two should do the trick and I can just take the other one back. I'm trying out with a new band tonight so I'll update with the results and photos later on.

Good luck in tryouts....what do you play?

sounds good about the tub....wouldn't hurt to keep a third around if one springs a leak. ;)