new grower. need some help

this is my first grow and was hoping for some advice along. i only have the camera on my phone but i will take the best pictures i can. the setup that i have right now in my closet. it's on a shelf thats about 1' x 2.5' and about 3' high. the walls are painted white and its closed off with a blanket. nothing special, i dont have a lot of money right now so i am trying to keep it on a low budget, but still be seuccesful. I have a 2 ft. fluorescent light right now, but might add more? dont know what lights to get, but keep in mind the cheaper lights.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...0212081129.jpg

that is my setup as of right now. any advice will help. thanks guys

For veg you will want some CFLs with a kelvin of 5700 or so, and for flowering you will want CFLs with a kelvin of say 2700.

That's the low-budget way, though. Obviously there are other routes. :p

PS - For just those two plants I would get maybe 2 or 3 CFLs and hang them right over the plant, a couple inches above your cups.

yeah i am stickin with the low budget, atleast for this grow. does it tell the kelvin on the package when you buy it or am i going to have to like reasearch it to find the right one? lol. i was thinking about getting 2 CFLs along with the flou. and see how that works. it has only been a few days and i havent given them any kind of nutes yet. should i do that? or wait for a while longer before i do that?

I think you should wait a little longer, 'cause the nutes are typically too strong for seedlings.

Lights: Just look on the package, the higher kelvin # is usually called "warm" or "daylight" whereas the lower kelvin like 2700k is usually "cool" or "blue". But like I said, it is usually right on the package itself. ;)

PS - I found an example of a typical package:

http://www.changethelight.org/images/ge_60w_6500k.jpg

You can see on the left it says "6500k".

oh alright. thanks.
whats the difference between the kinds of lights? why do the higher kelvin ones work better? and so when i start to flower then should i buy the lower kelvin lights? what does it do thats different?

shitty picture i will try to aquire a dig. cam but thats one of them.
i will update every few days or so. if you know anything that will help me please let me know.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...0212081133.jpg

I can't get all scientific on you like some of the other members, but I just know that it's the type of light that is most preferred by the plant in her two different stages (vegging and flowering). Remember that you are trying to replicate the natural growth of a plant outdoors, except indoors.

As for you cup, make sure you either raise your soil level or trim the cup down so air can circulate better. With those high sides you're going to have a lot of stale air and possible mold growth.

oh alright. will do.
some one else told me that the space was too big and to close it off. i had just hung a blanket up to block it off. but im not sure that really does anything.

What space is too big?

Backpacker is right about the different colors of light for different stages of growth. Unfortunately he got them backwards. For vegatative growth you want a bluish or cool color light. This makes the plants bushier with more nodes (branches). When you switch the light schedule to flowering you'll want a more reddish light. This will make the plants stretch a little, but it is more condusive to making buds. Unless the package says something about the light being cool or daylight, or it has the proper K listed, it is most likely 2700K which is fine for an all around bulb. Check out the graph I modified a bit. You can see that the absolute best color (K) for vegatative growth is 5700, and 2450 for budding. Good luck finding exactly those colors, so we just try to get close. Ultimately we want a mix of about 85% blue and 15% red during veg, and visa versa for budding.

I suggest you read this thread: http://boards.cannabis.com/basic-gro...hing-mean.html. Toward the end I give more info about lighting, plus there's lots of good info for begginers.

I think you said in SnS's thread that you have a 75 watt light. That's more than enough to get seedlings going. They don't want much light. After a couple weeks, the more the better. For good lighting on a budget use Fluorescent tubes or CFLs. They make CFLs from 13 watts up to 250 watts I think, which is equivilant to something like 600 watts incandescent. Do not give your plants any nutrients, except perhaps a slight bit of B1, until they are at least 2 weeks old. Then start at about 1/4 strength. I woud do like Backpacker recommends and fill your cups more close to the top, while still leaving a little lip to hold water. You'll also need a fan for gently blowing your plants in a breeze, which helps the plants get strong so they won't break when they get heavy with buds. This will also help get fresh air to the plants, which they require.

I don't see a need to block off your space, and I don't think you need to make your pictures smaller. I post mine bigger than that. Most peoples' browsers are set to shrink the picture if it is bigger than the screen anyway. Then you also have the opportunity to enlarge to full size if you want to.

Hope that helps a little. Good luck.

PS. Don't over water. You should wait until the soil is almost completely dry between waterings.

It would appear that I am correct. If you go to http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-li...-lighting.html he clearly says that 6500k is very blue while 3000k is warm...

oops..ignore this one lol

yeah that helps alot. i bought some more lights and i put one of them on but not too close:

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...0/DSC08226.jpg
((the tube is 75 watts and the CFL is 100 watts))
its pretty ghetto i know. haha. but does that look alright?

i bought ones that say "daylight 6500K" and they are cool natural light. how can you tell if you have over-watered? i just have a spray bottle and spray it a couple times throughout the day.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...0/DSC08221.jpg

the bottoms of the leaves are turning dark. kind of like a purple color. is that bad?
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...0/DSC08229.jpg

Everything looks good, mate. You got the right type of bulb, but I would put one over your other cup too.

I can't really tell you how much to water, as I don't know much about it. But I know that one of the most common mistakes that new growers make is overwatering. So just make sure your soil is all muddy and you should be OK. Unfortunately I don't know anything about the purple leaves, either. Sorry!

One last suggestion I can make is to get a cheap little desk fan. Having a gentle breeze on your plants will make it stronger and more able to stand up under the weight of the heavy buds!

thats good to hear. yeah, i have just been misting them a few times throughout the day with a few sprays. and so far it seems to be an alright method. is it possible for the plant to be a purple tinged plant? would it show this early? or is it a sign im not doing something right? i have another CFL but i dont have a socket to put it in yet. i have a little lamp somewhere just havent found it yet, but when i do i am going to put a light over each one.

Yeah like I said, unfortunately I have no idea about the purple, I'm not that experienced yet. :p But hopefully one of the more experienced growers will poke their head in here soon.

Also, you can be certain that the plant will give you feedback. If you are watering too little or too much, the plant will let you know. :)

yeah, do you know what the signs of over watering and under watering are? cuz i dont know

I believe the signs for bother over and under watering are droopy leaves. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Backpacker420

It would appear that I am correct. If you go to http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-li...-lighting.html he clearly says that 6500k is very blue while 3000k is warm...

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Uh, actually you are not correct, not that it matters much. Just don't want the newbs to get confused. Weed farming is confusing enough when just learning. I'm not trying to be a dick, it's just that things must be right in my universe or my eyeballs melt and run down onto my shirt and my head explodes, sending a mess of confused brain matter in all directions.

Aren't you the same Backpacker that wrote this:?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Backpacker420

Lights: Just look on the package, the higher kelvin # is usually called "warm" or "daylight" whereas the lower kelvin like 2700k is usually "cool" or "blue".

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Again, this is incorrect and it's the other way around.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...0/DSC08240.jpg

i added some tin foil around my grow area^^^
will this help at all?

Ghetto: Don't worry, no problem, big deal, nobody cares. If the THC hits your brain your set up is awesome. Not all of us have the time or money for big professional grows, with lots of nice flashing lights and shiny buttons.

Light: When you say the CFL is 100 watts, I'm going to have to assume this is the incandescent equivalent, for a gross wattage of 23 or so. You have plenty of light at this point for two seedlings, and IMO the light is just a tad close to the plant at this tender young age. If I'm wrong about the wattage thing, it's waaaay too close. That distance is about right for after 2 weeks of age. I am growing 7 potential mother plants right now with 2 2700K 23W CFL's, and I can't believe how fast and healthy they are growing. Lighting is not real critical until you switch to flowering mode. Then it is extremely critical if you want any weed for your efforts. The more the better, the proper colors in the proper proportions.

Purple: Don't worry at this point. I don't think you said what variety you are growing (By the way, what variety are you growing?), but many varieties have hints or downright blatant tones of blue and purple. I see a lot of purple in my stuff at various times. It could be temperature related, PH related, nutrient related (Magnesium deficiency?), or all or none of the above.

Water: Stop worrying about water so much. Over watering is one of the most common mistakes of beginners, along with frying them with nutrients. I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish by misting, but it's not needed for new sprouts with 2 tiny leaves unless you're trying to foliar feed. Remember the KISS method and don't smother them with attention. They'll do best if you can just leave em be. Water with a tiny bit of B1 PH'd to 6.8. Only when the dirt has almost completely dried should you be watering again. This will probably be in a week or two depending on the atmospheric conditions of your grow area. At that point when you water again you could add some fertilizer at 1/4 strength or less, with a half jigger of JD, and lower the lights to as close as possible without causing heat stress, about 1 inch. Backpacker is right about the signs of over watering in that it looks very much like under watering. Under watering looks perhaps slightly more, uh dead I guess. Over watering makes em droopy and sad. Any of my dirt plants don't even get looked at for watering until I start to notice a bit of droopiness. I just check em once per day, or less if I just watered.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dankleader420

i added some tin foil around my grow area^^^
will this help at all?

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I would stick with a flat white wall or get some mylar. Tin foil doesn't diffuse well and makes hot spots. It's also not that great at reflecting. Many people believe that flat white is best, but either that or mylar do great, though mylar has hot spots.

thanks opie. yeah, i read more about the tin foil and decided to take it down. i have flat white walls. the CFLs are 26w. about how far away should i keep them from the plants at this point? i have one in a lamp for right now because i have nothing else so its not as close so i put the other one a little closer, kind of inbetween the both of them. i was thinking about going and buying two more CFLs. the 2700K ones. but i will probably wait a while longer until they get more towards the flowering stage.

and about the variety. its just from bags throughout the past few months that i have smoked and when i find a seed i held onto it. If it came from good pot, would that make it have a good chance of producing good pot?

Your lights are fine for now, except I would have at least one that's reddish color like the more common 2700K, and I would raise the CFL maybe 2 inches. If I could only choose 1 light for everything and it couldn't be HPS, I would have a warm, or reddish CFL about 2500K, but 2700K is fine. Starting about now or in a couple days you could start lowering it gradually, maybe an inch a day until it is about 1 inch away, but watch for signs of heat stress when it gets to it's final position. On the other hand if the plants are used to it that low at this point, and show no sign of heat stress, I might just leave it right where it is for a few days, then begin lowering a little.

Aint nothing at all wrong with bag seed as long as the seeds in the bag are from good plants. Good plants make good seeds that make good plants.

yeah, i was thinking about buying a 2700K light and replacing it with one of the 6500K lights so i have a warm and cool like. would that be a good idea?

also, the first set of leaves are still small, but they seem to be curling down quite a bit:
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...0/DSC08241.jpg

im not sure if its anything because its still so small but i dont want to just sit and watch it die already because i didnt do something about it.

quote=dankleader420;1807423

yeah, i was thinking about buying a 2700K light and replacing it with one of the 6500K lights so i have a warm and cool like. would that be a good idea?
Yes. Trust me you will like the results much better with a mix. Plants do better with a full spectrum, kinda like what comes from the sun.

the first set of leaves are still small
No problem. So is the plant. Patience.

but they seem to be curling down quite a bit:
Over watering

when should i water?
i have read that when they are seedlings you should always keep the soil moist. and others say to water and then wait til the soil dries before you water it again. so im not sure what to do. im going to hold off on the watering a little. will the leaves start to straighten out? i havent watered it today. last time i watered was last night around 12:00 or so. also i have just been using a spray bottle, makeing sure to not drown the plant, well so i thought.
but i guess i was spraying too often or something. should i just water like every other day? and what should i use to water? just like pour the water on or what? and how much water should i use for each watering?

At this point since you are overwatering I should suggest letting the soil dry out, and then water.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dankleader420

when should i water?
i have read that when they are seedlings you should always keep the soil moist. and others say to water and then wait till the soil dries before you water it again. so im not sure what to do. im going to hold off on the watering a little. will the leaves start to straighten out? i havent watered it today. last time i watered was last night around 12:00 or so. also i have just been using a spray bottle, makeing sure to not drown the plant, well so i thought.
but i guess i was spraying too often or something. should i just water like every other day? and what should i use to water? just like pour the water on or what? and how much water should i use for each watering?

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I kinda thought I already gave my 2 cents on this, but here goes again. When you plant a seed in soil, keep the seed warm and moist, not wet. Normally I will plant a seed, flood the container with water and a little B1 like SuperThrive, until it runs out the bottom good. That is usually enough to water until 1 or 2 weeks after the plant has started growing. If you have dry conditions, or for some other reason you suspect that the dirt 1/4 inch down might be getting dry, you need to alleviate that situation. You could flood the container again, or preferably just get it moist again by misting. It's OK if the top crust of the soil is dry, it just needs to be moist where the seed is. Once it gets moisture, don't ever let it dry out.

Once the plant has started growing it is sending roots about as fast as foliage, and the soil down deeper is still moist for a week or two. Plants do much better if the roots have to do a little searching for moisture. So again, normally you flood the container, wait until the soil is almost completely dried out, then water again. By that point the plant should have some nice foliage. However, watch your plant carefully for any signs of drooping from lack of moisture. The first time you see that you'll know about how long you need between waterings for that particular container and stage of life. As they grow older, they need more water. If they have a couple tiny baby leafs, they don't need much water. If they have a couple pounds of foliage, they need a lot of water.

I hope that helps a little. I'm off to buy some T-5s I think.

Oh yeah, be sure your PH isn't all whacky. The soil, water and nutrients should be about 6.8, give or take a little.

alright thanks that helps :thumbsup:

about the purple, to me that is 100% normal as all of my plants have had that when they came out of the soil it should dissapear within a few days

okay thanks.

so i went to go buy the 2700K CFLs and i couldnt find them.
the only ones that said what they were, were the 6500K ones.
are the other ones that arnt labled the 2700K??
this is the package that wasnt labeled:
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...0214081432.jpg
are those the right ones that i am looking for(2700K)?

Well 6500k are typically refered to as "daylight", "sunlight" or "cool" whereas 2700k is an orangish "warm". :)

Remember: 6500k for veg, and 2700k for flower. :)

yeah i already got the 6500K ones, but i cant find the 2700K ones. it doesnt say it anywhere on the package

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dankleader420

are the other ones that arnt labled the 2700K??

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Bingo! Give the man a cigar.

I thought I said that, but it very well could have been a different thread. 90% of the CFL bulbs in your regular store are 2700K, and they don't say a thing about it on the package. You can always find out one way or another if you want to be sure. Sometimes it will be on the ballast of the bulb instead of the package, sometimes only a model number will be there or on the package. In that case you can usually find the K by finding the manufactures web site and comparing it to their catalog or spec sheets. If not, you can always call or email them. What we really want is 2450 K, if memory serves (check the chart), but all we can do is come close to that number and, that is pretty rare. The reddish, or warm, or 2700K bulbs are the cheapest to manufacture, and therefore the most common and least expensive for us. If it's a cool, or daylight, or 6000K bulb, or in that range, the manufacture wants to make darn sure you know that, so it's going to something about that on the package.

I hope that answered your question.

yep answered that question perfectly. i thought that might be how it work but i didnt want to go buy the lights and come back and have it be the same as the ones i already had. probably go pick them up tomorrow and give em a try.

the leaves are dropping quite a lot again and i dont know why. i havent been watering as much. about every third day when the soil gets dry. what could it be from? :[

There's a lot of reasons leaves can look droopy. Both over and under watering do that, but if you say it only does it when the soil gets dry, then maybe it is from under watering. For me, I know it's time to water if the leaves start to droop a little, but if I'm on the ball sometimes I can water just before that happens. Watch for the dirt pulling away from the edges of the container, and also after the soil dries out a couple times you should be able to know if it's time, from how light the plant and pot has gotten. If it's really light, or much lighter than normal, there may not be much, if any moisture in the soil. You can also stick your finger down into the soil to feel it, or invest in a $5 moisture meter, which usually work OK. The $100 ones are a lot better though.

hmm.. yeah the soil started to crack and pull away from the edges now that the soil is drying. i meant i water when the soil looks dry and starts to crack. i am about to water them here pretty soon so i will see if that helps.