Clones Drying and Dying upon Transplant..... Your thought requested.

Heya everyone need some assistance on this one.

I have a number of clones that continue to die upon transplanting.

Currrently the clones have been going for 3.5 weeks.
They have an extensive established root system. Each has a mass of roots 3+ inches outside of rockwoold plug. All of them are still within their humidomes.

The issue is when I take them out of the humidome in the fluro room the leaves turn brown/black and they die. When I transplant them to another room with 2 1000 hps lamps they simply dry up and die a quick death. This has happened more than once. I have found some help by taking them out of the humidome lose 1/2 of the clones in the fluro room, the ones that make it I transplant to 4*4 blocks, and when they start to grow new leaves in the fluro room I know they can be transplanted saftely

Has anyone else had similar problems, I'd be interested to hear your solutions.

Yup! I have had those problems. Hell, I've just got PROBLEMS lol.
Here's the issue. As you've noticed, clones are delicate even after they develop roots.
The solution is to gradually get them used to outside conditions.
Lose the HPS for the first 2 weeks out from under the dome.
When you remove the dome for the first time, do it under WEAK flourescent light. Leave it off only a little while, until you notice the plants looking a little curled, stressed, or wilty.
Mist the inside of the dome (not the plants) lightly and return the dome to the propagation tray.
Repeat this again several hours later.
After a couple days you will notice that the clones take longer to show any signs of wilt.
What has happened is that they now are relying on their new root system for moisture, and have 'learned' how to close their stomata so they don't lose water through the leaves and dry out.
It's worst in winter when the air is dry.

how close do you have your two 1k's from your newly transplanted clones? Another thing, are you taking them straight from your humidome to the HPS's? Chances are, you are killing them with too much light. I'm no expert, but in my opinion you are providing them with too much light and their small root systems can't supply that much water to them to keep them alive under 2k watts of HPS light. Someone please correct me if i'm wrong here, don't want to pass bad info.

Yeah, what stinky said. I'd listen to her......W.W.S.D

Holly Cow Stinky what a great idea.

that makes complete sense, since were on the topic may I share with you my current clone setup and get your advice.

1. Clone -24 hours of light for the first 10-14 days
- Using Hydrofarm heat matts
- Opening and misting plants and hood twice daily

2. After 10-14 days I go to 18 hour and continue to mist the same way.

3. Open vents in hood at days 21-24 for some reasons some clones begin to have shriveled heads like they are midigits... it's strange....

4. Burn out of 200 burn 150 to get the 50 i need.

I just lost a whole run so your comments and suggestions are greatly appreciated

Please feel free to be long winded Im taking it all in

I'd keep a consistent light schedule through the cloning process personally.
I only use heat mats in winter if room temp is low, otherwise the possibility of fungus increases
CLEAN your tray and dome with foaming cleanser before use too
Mist only the hood, not the plants
Only open the vent a little ways -just a CRACK- at first

Another thing to think about is treating with wilt-pruf. You can even wilt-pruf your moms BEFORE you take cuttings off them. Or you can mist the clones. The point is to make them less prone to losing water through the leaves. I cut my leaves down to 1" as well. Don't over do the wilt-pruf; it can suffocate the plants if overapplied.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stinkyattic

Yup! I have had those problems. Hell, I've just got PROBLEMS lol.
Here's the issue. As you've noticed, clones are delicate even after they develop roots.
The solution is to gradually get them used to outside conditions.
Lose the HPS for the first 2 weeks out from under the dome.
When you remove the dome for the first time, do it under WEAK flourescent light. Leave it off only a little while, until you notice the plants looking a little curled, stressed, or wilty.
Mist the inside of the dome (not the plants) lightly and return the dome to the propagation tray.
Repeat this again several hours later.
After a couple days you will notice that the clones take longer to show any signs of wilt.
What has happened is that they now are relying on their new root system for moisture, and have 'learned' how to close their stomata so they don't lose water through the leaves and dry out.
It's worst in winter when the air is dry.

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God I love getting information like this.....what else have you got Stinky? Like when should you start nutes? Should I be using superthrives? Give it up!!! :thumbsup:

Okay but if I get carpal tunnel... :(
I don't use thrives at all any more. They are great for transplanting but I've seen too much trouble with people ODing on their N and making a royal mess. Remember new growth is tender and susceptible to whatever problems you have so encouraging it during cloning is not good. Plus N during cloning, including giving the mother too much 'grow' before cuttings, inhibits root growth.
Start nutes AFTER you are certain that the new plants are acclimated to their environment, and start WEAK.

so when are you certain the plants have acclimated to their enviroment? I'm way at the beginning of my first one here......and not doing well.....so anything helps......and smoke a doobie for your carpal tunnel. :D

I notice the cloning liquid has N in it as well.....

cloning liquid? Are you running a bubble cloner? I never had much luck with those. I think I was using water at the wrong pH.
Now I just use the rapidrooters, NO additional water necessary, just misting the dome. Did you check out the growing da dankness sticky? I think there's a tutorial in there? And then that other cloning log one that's a sticky- that's a good thread.

What kind of troubles have you had with the bubble cloners Stinkster?

I'm using clonex gel,hydrofarm heat matts,humity domes,2' trays.....Running in a basement so gotta use all the time floor is concrete....

Need to make a table for my clones but the heat matts seem to help out the speed for me, with seedz,cuttings,in jiffy pellets, or oasis cubes.

I keep the floros about a quarter inch front the top of the humity dome.Seems to work, only draw back is it seems they get maybe to used to it cause i lost power one day and had massive catrostrophic clone loss....

Out of the dome and into the soil is what i do its rough on them but know right away wich ones are gonna live or die. I then leave them under those same foloros for a few days....Then straight under hid MH wich they love! Stretching is sometimes an issue but I mastering the light to canopy distance thing quickly.

I am 24/0 fan. The sun never goes down on planet Zissous veg room. Makes me wonder when then move to 12/12 if my girls have a case of achluophobia? nyuk,nyuk,nyuk.....

Anyways recently i bought a product i had never heard of, or knew of it being a possibility. Nutes/ferts for clones? WTF over MasterChief? Anwayz clonex does. Just started using it so cant report on it helping or not but at 20$ for a liter of the stuff figured it might be worth a try and see....Has anyone used this stuff in the past?

it claims:
Clonex Clone Solution is a clone-specific nutrient formulated using a special blend of minerals and other helpful ingredients. Used with Clonex gel and other rooting agents, Clonex Clone Solution assists in the cloning process while helping to minimize stress.

Clonex Rooting Gel Compound has been the foremost product in its field since its launch in 1989. It is known and respected the world over and has been used to empower at least 750,000,000 clones during that period of time.

Clonex Rooting Gel Compound has succeeded because the formulation was fine tuned over hundreds of experiments to give the explosive root development that serious growers now depend upon.

Now another ten years of experience has underwritten our new product. Clonex Clone Solution is the product of extensive new research and is designed to work in conjunction with Clonex Rooting Gel Compound and other rooting agents for outstanding results.

Clonex Clone Solution can be applied to the rooting medium and sprayed over the young clones.

front of bottle has a npk of 1-0.4-1 ......

Wow Great advice from you both.

Curios in regards to hood venting. Do you being to vent the hood "a crack" right from the begining after cloning, or do you let it sit a few days/week before begining to vent.

When you say spray dome not clones is that from the very begining, therefore I should never spray the clones or only periodically as needed.

When should I begin to pull the hood off to vent for an hour, put it back etc. When I am just begining to see rooting sites, when I have established roots coming out of the bottom or prehaps no roots at all.

What is the best tempreture humidity for cloning, I've heard the gammit but most people say to keep your medium at 70-75 with your air temp at 70.

As always any additional thoughts you may have on this issue no matter how abtuse are of course welcomed and encouraged.

Dome vents....... the more u crack the more air u'll get but also have to spray more often.....IMO that is. Also cleaning them often is very important......when the water stops beeding alot on the tops its time to clean it.

In regards to your earlier post.

I heard that adding a small bit of SM-90 to your resivioir can halt the creation of any mold on plant roots. I've been using it for sometime in my resivior and have not had any any mold issues. Can you comment as to SM-90 in both foliar and resivior forms?

bubble troubles:
-my house is poorly heated/cooled and even temperature is necessary for bubble cloners
-my tap water is a perfect 7 and I wasn't adjusting it
-I had mold issues
-My Clonex went bad and I didn't know it. I would EXPECT something that expensive to contain a freakin FUNGICIDE... :wtf:
Let the clones sit until they are rooted, 8-14 days, before opening the dome vent even a little. Rooting is step one. Hardening-off can't start until you have roots.
Don't even try to acclimate the clones until you are certain that they have roots.
Proper temp is more like 75-80.

how does clonex go bad? u mean like contamination?

Yes, contamination is very easy. You should always pour what you need out of the jar and then wipe down the inside of the cap and threading with a clean paper towel before closing again, and store in the fridge for maximum life. But even so, you mayu notice suddenly all your clones start failing. It really should come with a 'use within 4 months of opening' warning on the label!
I switched to dip-n-gro. My friend gave me the dregs of a little bottle of the stuff he's had for oh hell, easy 6 years... it brought my success ratio up over 95% the FIRST TRY and now I get 100%. It has a fungicide and is more stable chemically it seems.

So it's pretty typical that root establishment is a must before even opening the vents on the dome and then from there continue to aclclimatize them slowly without spraying plant foliage directly, only the inside of the hood.

I've heard before that a good rule of thumb for thinking about opening vents is five roots emerging from your rockwool. Do you belive that this saying has weight, if not when would you consider true root prodution? At the begining of seeing rooting sights along the clone, or roots emerging from the rooting medium.

Again great posts to this thread so far, I'm sure that with this info I wont have any more spoiled experiences.