I've recently been arguing the fact that it is not addictive. I have read countless threads debating this. Is there really any conclusive evidence one way or the other? Thanks and Peace :hippy:
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I've recently been arguing the fact that it is not addictive. I have read countless threads debating this. Is there really any conclusive evidence one way or the other? Thanks and Peace :hippy:
its not physically addictive like cigarettes but is extremely mentally addictive...
it's not notably physically addictive like many drugs.
however, like chocolate, or anything good, it can be so enjoyable that you want to relive the experience, hence "psychological addiction." you can be an addict to anything, and MJ is addicting in the same way that chocolate is.
No.
Cannabis is NOT addictive.
In fact, I used pot to quit cigarettes, so it's anti-addictive.
Here's a clue.
If you go to the emergency room at your local hospital, and you tell them you are addicted to heroin or cocaine, they will refer you to rehab.
If you walk into the same ER, and say that you're addicted to cannabis or chocolate, they will refer you to a psychiatrist.
Marijuana has no addictive chemicals in it, so physically, no it's not. However, just like anything with any aesthetic value whatsoever, you can become psychologically addicted to it. You can become addicted to video games, the computer, pot, etc., but that's nothing to do with the herb, it's all to do with YOU. :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by benvortec
On the flip side, one could argue that since smoking marijuana is SO FUN, it has psychologically addictive qualities.. As does music, and most everything else.. :hippy:
Research suggests in selected people cannabis can be extremely mentally addictive, so much so it can occasionally be confused with a physical addiction and withdrawal.
This is an extreme minority of people. Cannabis, for the most part, should be considered a non addictive drug!
Peace,
Denial
BS!Quote:
Originally Posted by denial102
I defy you to present any such research.
It simply doesn't exist.
It all depends on your own mentality(is that how you spell it?), I could honestly say im not addicted, i've only really seen one person flip out over weed.
*puts feet up, lights pipe*
Well I was smoking some nice green at a "friends" and in comes this girl, im not sure if she was a relative of my "friend" but anyway..She storms about, paces back and fourth.
"I need some dope now!"
She was pissed off, she already owed my good friend money, clearly she was having supply problems as I doubt she would have come back if she knew where to go...this making sense? Anyway, I was just a little amazed at how somebody could go so crazy over a little bit of smoke...it wasnt even gonna be a drastic amount....
*empties bowl out*
well...
*walks off* :D
She's not an addict, just crazy.Quote:
Originally Posted by pass_the_dubbie
Quote:
Originally Posted by psteve
It's strictly dependant on each persons genetics. I happen to know numerous people who have been psychologically affected.Quote:
Originally Posted by pass_the_dubbie
Pass_the_dubbie: well it's not bullshit man, it's a fact. It's a psychoactive drug.
A psychoactive drug or psychotropic substance is a chemical substance that acts primarily upon the central nervous system where it alters brain function, resulting in temporary changes in perception, mood, consciousness and behavior.
Cannabis is no exception to the rule of Euphoria i.e. give the brain Euphoria and take it away, see how it reacts. Of course it has an effect, it's a drug for fuck sake. I am pro-cannabis, and although I don't feel any effects pandered by the FDA, DEA or republican government - I do feel a withdrawal, something that is specific to my immune system, neurology and genetics. I somewhat take offence at being told what I am saying is bullshit having had a great deal of experience with this drug, and having many physical complaints at which it cures - some of which are mental by the way.
I will say again in some people extreme mental addiction may occur, a.k.a. dependance, a.k.a. mental changes and syndrome like effects manifest and patients can become angry, volatile, upset, depressed, anxious, and many MANY more.
Again, in SOME PEOPLE. :-) It's not a pop at cannabis, I am in love with the drug, please though don't mistake your love with the drug with physical scientific evidence about such psychoactive drugs. Having briefly spoken to a world medical expert on Cannabis I can tell you this, upto or in excess of 1000 differing components exist within cannabis - not just THC.
In peace I would say it's not BS at all, and in peace I would say ignorance is no replacement for your awareness of self and any scientific data that can help prove your awareness and experiences are founded. In this case the definition of psychoactive explains many changes in the mind occur, some of which are indeed associated with addiction. Dopamine for instance.
Psychoactive drug - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Peace 2 u all, and smoke up :rastasmoke:
Denial
Again, everything you described is not research.
It is just talk.
According to the DSM4 there is no such thing as cannabis addiction. Period.
Some people can form psychological addictions to ANYTHING. It has nothing to do with cannabis. It's a psychiatric disorder.
Oops. Let me rephrase that...
It's a psychiatric personality disorder.
The very idea that a substance can be 'psychologically addictive' is quite simply, wrong.
Psychological 'addiction' is always to a behavior, not to a substance.
psteve, very true, you make a good point about addiction being a mental behaviour rather than a direct response from the drug.
As pointed out by yourself, it is a fairly indirect response, as such if behaviourisms are addictive & habbit forming you can concede to the fact that psychoactive substances act as triggers - such triggers which can lead to a psychological addiction as a behavioural response which is in fact rooted in psychology rather than the drug itself. Peoples neuro-chemistry differs, and that is why I said some people. What I should have probably said is a minority. These cases do exist however, and I can provide whitepapers and research at some point if anyone would like :)
It was a mistake to use the words psychologically addictive, as it compounded the confusion further. What I meant was "mentally addictive" which by medical definition is a psychological as well as physical (chemical) process. It seems we are caught on definition here and the differentiation between mental addiction and physical addiction seems almost meaningless.
In fact, mental addiction is a very real thing, and there are likely psychological reasons for that in any case. Upon definition it can be seen discredable but in reality cases exist and will continue to exist.
Research does suggest though that personality disorders create a likelyhood of what I refered to as both "mental addiction" and "psychological addiction". Although the two should not be confused, I would argue they are causality and effect and there has not been enough research to determine exactly how they interact yet. Just that evidence suggests mental addiction is possible - if not by definition - by causality. The one thing that is clear. These cases are rare, but not rare enough to be outcast and ignored.
Peace,
Denial
So do flashing lights. ANYTHING can trigger a behavioral response.Quote:
Originally Posted by denial102
By that logic, everything, even doorknobs are addictive.
as are radio, traffic signals, stairways, open spaces, hot dogs, dancing, exercise of any kind, ringing bells, sitting, newspaper, string, cardboard... I can't think of anything that couldn't trigger a psychological response in SOMEONE.
If there is a measurable chemical response in your brain, yes. However it would be a mistake to consider it to be isolated to solely non chemical reactions. Many substances can be mentally addictive, such as food, for instance.Quote:
Originally Posted by psteve
hey all,
you know from experience,addiction is really all in the mind,and habits.
i was and still am cross addicted to all sorts of things,food sex,money almost anything you could smoke sniff,you name it
but the my truth i'm finding is your "habits" determine your lifestyle.
as of now i'm recreating my life.i smoke cannabis still although any "need" is gone
and i totally removed myself from my old lifestyle/friends/city
and believe me they can be more of chains than any substance.
i hop this helped you in some small way.
:jointsmile:
Wrong again. Foods are not addictive, unless they contain an addictive substance.Quote:
Originally Posted by denial102
You can become psychologically addicted to eating popcorn, but NOT to popcorn itself.
If that is 100% true, then maybe you could define mental addiction for us all! (as after all that seems to be the fundamental reason why you disagree with my initial assessment that extreme mental addiction can occur in a minority of cannabis users)Quote:
Originally Posted by psteve
Peace,
Denial
I'd say the mental addictedness wears off after a couple days.
So, NO it's not addictive.
If you go on a break, once you're past the one week point you can go as far as you want even if people around you are smoking every day.
My thinking on this has changed pretty significantly since I have had my pharmacology and neuro-psychopathology classes this year and last in med school. I've also heard several really world-class level physicians address this subject, one of them our dean at Southwestern, who's a Nobel Laureate for his groundbreaking g-protein research, which relates quite closely to cannabinoid receptors.
According to what they're teaching today in allopathic (regular M.D. training programs as opposed to osteopathic) medical schools, the cannabinoid, opiate and even nicotine receptor systems are very very closely intertwined in matters of pain, reward, and addiction. Those various drugs/substances act initially through their own receptors, but they eventually trigger a generalized reward system in the brain that can also be triggered by other drugs. So even if, in concept, cannabis isn't physically addictive, it can, in the right brain chemistry--most likely a brain that is genetically susceptible to addiction in the first place--trigger an addictive response. That's not behavioral, either. It's those opiate-cannabinoid-nicotine receptors and their reward system/response working together and becoming systemically responsive to the other substances. I believe this is why some people really do develop a dependency on cannabis, which I've read hundreds of examples here about. There are always plenty of "No, no way"-sayers on this subject, but the people who experience this are very definitely in the grips of something more than psychological dependence. Any one with a propensity for addiction can get addicted to anything, whether it has withdrawal-type dependence or not. Food. Shopping. Gambling. Opiates. Weed. Alcohol. They're those folks who're destined to get hooked to something no matter what. This is why, for them specifically, they truly are addicted, often to multiple substances, and why, for folks who fall into this category, cannabis easily can be a gateway drug. Argue all you want, but for some people it is addictive and it does lead to other types of drugs because of that response linkage to the other receptors. In these people, there is also fairly marked physical withdrawal when they discontinue cannabis after heavy and repeated use, probably as a result of the withdrawal effects on the opiate receptors.
Here's some good info, and please don't dismiss it. These researchers are learning more and more every day about why this happens to some people and not to others. This is seminal and significant research about these receptors, including several very good links and excellent bibliographical sources.
The Why Files | 4. Recognizing drug receptors
Good point THClord.. Admittedly you're fairly correct on a global basis, this seems to be the case. Still it is convenient to say it's not addictive because the "addiction" wears off ;-) Yes?Quote:
Originally Posted by THClord
You are way more researched than I am, and admittedly I was caught with my trousers down because I don't have the research bookmarked, I will have to have a dig around.Quote:
Originally Posted by birdgirl73
And yes, it is really good to see the talk about the specific receptors for THC, some people react different, and much like our beloved plants, our genetics varies widely too! Which means different reactions - for everyone. I can't generalise and I'd expect the medical community as a whole cannot either!
I hope other people continue to input data about this topic. There is, by my own admission some problems defining mental addiction, psychological addiction, and differentiating them between chemical dependance and psysiological addiction. In any case, from what I've seen I have to remain strongly in favour of some people will become what, at the very least, appears to be a strong mental addiction to this drug.
In my case, I would call it a medical dependance, uhh ahem :rasta:
I will be reading my pants off now.
Oh oh oh, one thing, I thought the behavioural system played an integral part on addictive and neurochemical responses; or at least how they are dealt with in any psychological reward system. Again, your clearly way more researched than me so maybe you can clear that up! :thumbsup:
Peace,
Denial
In layman's terms you THINK YOU GOTTA HAVE IT. People who are psychology dependent or addicted to anything probably fall in the category of "addictive personalities," which is partially why the majority of the population isn't all cuckoo for weed. They just can't dig it long-enough. Plus the stuff exposes you to some pretty wicked, out-of-ordinary things.Quote:
Originally Posted by r0k
Fast-food is helping to start a trend of dependency and sooner or later our earnings are gonna be flushed down the drain, to interstate lodging and other forms of subtle conveniences which are aimed at keeping the "machine" up and running. And you know what I'm talking about! We come in but we don't leave this place. We're effectively trapped butwe don't gnaw to escape.
True. WAY TOO MUCH SELECTIVE THINKING ON THIS SITE!Quote:
Originally Posted by denial102
Not everything about cannabis is WONDERFUL for you.. when u abuse the drug there are a lot of things that are very bad for u. Any smoke, especially excessive smoke in your lungs is HORRIBLE for your lungs.. and weed is extremely mentally addictive for most people. (Especially heavy users) If you smoke daily/when u quit or go on a break u will have a bunch of WITHDRAWS.. For me it was IRRITABILITY! everything irritated me when i was on a break! Sleeplessness, loss of appetite, (& even anxiety & depression for some people i know) not to mention excessive CRAVING of the drug (hence "mental addiction") & the weed i smoke is so good most of my friends become extremly mentally addictive. I know a few people who thought "smoking weed was pointless.. smoked with me a few times.. then became daily smokers).. and i know a few girls that would do a lot for some weed!! haha
ALL in all anyone who says weed is NOT MENTALLY ADDICTIVE what so ever is
1. lying to themselves
2. are smoking some shitty weed
The people that i know who smoke on a regular basis (including me) find it VERY hard to on a break of just 3 or 4 days! I've never had anything that was as mentally addictive as weed is... I smoked cigs here and there but was never able to get mentally addictived to them like i am with weed.
You are very much not alone :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Matix
Peace,
Denial
First off, addictons to weed is bullshit seeing as people can quit and go back on if they chose, and to anyone who says it is addicting then awnser this question for me, my father is 50 years old and is addicted to alchohol, he littlerly cant stop so my question is, if he even puts his mind to quittng and cant, then how can people put their mind to quitting smoking marijuana and be sucessful? its all myth that you are "addicted" it has no chemials that are addicting just as everyone has said. So the debate is over that it is not physically addictive like achohol as an example but can make you want to smoke it more often, not an addiction
peace
If its addictive, its definitely an addiction I accept willingly :)
how can you say weed is NOT MENTALLY ADDICTING!??! U are in denial or haven't smoked good weed before!Quote:
Originally Posted by Haro bmx 420
I've been smoking weed everyday for a couple years and I can tell you weed is the most addicting thing I've ever done!! I know drug abusers that FIEND for weed more than cocaine.. just because the experience they had with weed was better!
Again with the BS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Matix
Can you cite any studies? Any clinical experiences?
I didn't think so.
Just because you don't want to stop smoking weed, and you get pissed off when you try NOT smoking it, doesn't mean you're 'addicted'.
More BS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Matix
psteve, still waiting on your definition here :)Quote:
Originally Posted by denial102
Hi All :)
I can't help but to put my 2 cents in to this topic.:twocents:
I am an alcoholic and have been in some form of treatment for it, for the past 28 years.
I have been in inpatient programs, outpatient, and about every 12 step program there is.
I personally know of no one who is, or was, physically addicted to marijuana.
I have met people in treatment centers who were there because, they had a problem with Marijuana. They were usually minors or young adults, who were sent there by the court system.
I know of one lady in her 30 who was in treatment for marijuana, but the real problem was she was having an affair with the person she bought it from. She got caught and went in to treatment to save her marriage.
People are creatures of habit, we live our lives, with habits.
Some are good, and some are bad. All things can be over done and may lead to obsession, compulsion, or addiction.
I don't think anyone would say the use of marijuana is without risks. In Washington to be able to use Medical Marijuana a licensed physician must recommend the use of it. They also sign a paper that states the good done from the use of Medical Marijuana, out weighs any risk involved in its use.
Since this is a Medical Marijuana Forum we have pretty much decided the benefit of this medication, outweighs the risk of the sideffects.
As for Marijuana being addicting, I have had no withdrawals from not using marijuana, and believe me I know what withdrawal is. I haven't used Marijuana for about 7 to 10 years. If I were addicted to it, I could probably tell you the day I quit, But I can't.
However I can tell you I have 815 days SOBER.
So Judge for yourself;
"IF IT CAUSES A PROBLEM, IT IS A PROBLEM" Father Martin:thumbsup:
I Hope this made some sense to you, and helped you answer the question for yourself. :hippy:
I still say people who really think marijuana is not addicting has not used it long term, I still say it is ignorant to assume it isn't when not enough research has been gone into it to say either way. I happen to have known some people that were severely psychologically affected and did show symptoms of withdrawal and addiction as defined in the medical dictionary.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadscale
There are cases out there folks, everyone is different. Just like the plants themselves,
Peace,
Denial
Is 39 years long term enough?Quote:
Originally Posted by denial102
Yes! Everyone is different though, I'm not saying you are mentally addicted, at the least I just would like to be pointing out everyone has different genetics and thus will have different neurological, hormonal and chemical reactions both physically and mentally :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by psteve
Peace,
Denial
I began using Marijuana in the mid 70's and subtract the higher estimate of when I quit, 10 years ago, that would be roughly 33 years of use.Quote:
Originally Posted by denial102
I believe that qualifies as long term use!
To my knowledge there are no physical withdrawal symptoms attributed Marijuana use, or the lack of. If you know of some documented cases please enlighten me.
Along with the treatment for addiction I have received over the years, I have also had psychological treatment. I have seen people with sever psychological problems attributed to smoking marijuana that was laced with another substance.
Underlying psychological problems could manifest themselves as a result of using marijuana, I guess, most certainly if it were laced with another substance.
If you are worried about addiction to Medical Marijuana, I suggest not using it.
There are other treatments available, but some have far worst sideffects. :hippy:
psteve- I think psychological cannabis dependency goes much deeper than a "personality disorder"... The DSM were the ones who, up until about 1973, also classified homosexuality as a 'mental disorder' under a DSM diagnosis, so don't be so quick to soley rely on that source for classification. New research is being developed all the time.
Like BG had mentioned, psychological dependency is far deeper-rooted; it's more into the neurological category than a personality issue. "Addicitve Personality," as they say, may project what may be a high sensitivity to the cocktails of neurotransmitters released in the brain when the person comes into contact with a substance; in this case we'll use cannabis as a relevant example.
When you smoke a joint, the THC/CBDs are carried to your brain, converted/broken down into various molecules our body can use, and we feel stoned. The receptors who (surprise) receive those chemical messages have been shown in some individuals to be overly-sensitive- that's why the term "psychological addiction" is more of a neurological predisposition.
When the pleasure-inducing chemicals are released in our brain on a regular basis from smoking pot, the receptors begin to become accustomed to the same chemical cocktails being released somewhat regularly. When those signals end abruptly, over a period of time, the receptors begin to become agitated, so to say, because of a lack of the feel-good chemical responsible for the high.
The main difference between physical and psychological dependence begins here. While physical dependence goes on to effect other parts of the body in a physical sense, psychological dependence remains in the brain with the neurotransmitters and other chemicals as the only physiological process in psychological dependence. That's the difference.
This can explain why some individuals can certainly feel emotional symptoms of psychological cannabis withdrawal, such as headaches, irritability, insomnia, ect. but do not have signs of physical withdrawal, such as fever, chills, sweating, and hallucinations. If these neurologically sensitive people experience such symptoms as a result of stopping their use of cannabis, then what is it?
psteve- did you get a chance to look at the links so generously provided by Bird Girl? If not, I suggest reading them, they're very informative and non-biased. Could you please supply us with some links from academic/non-goverment funded scientific sources that back your claim?
Here are some I found useful:
Dopamine Receptor Function And Its Role In Drug Use
Dopamine and the Dependence Liability of Marijuana
Very good info dude, I have to keep on insisting to people (around the world) that everyone is different, and also is their hormonal, neurochemical balance, some of which is predefined by environmental or genetic deposition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple Banana
In the medical community at least, the discussion of addiction in marijuana is not a new concept, and there are at least some people that exhibit this behaviour. It's likely controllable, the message for me is awareness and moderation in your drug taking activities - everything, in fact, in moderation. Ignorance just isn't good enough for me!
It's been a while since i've emersed myself in this stuff. There is an illusion though that I have recognised exists; a psychological control factor (possible some level of consciousness/awareness or biofeedback) plays a part on perceived "mental addiction". (The science community I am a part of considers cannabis weakly mentally addictive). What I call an inherent `psychological control factor has a lot to do with the synthesis of addictive behaviour - which can result from psychological or biochemical reactions in the brain. The "Illusion" of mental and physical addiction is someone compounded by the physical medium of the brain is in medical science considered a physical item that does interact with Delta9 and other cannabinoids.
Although research is generally inconclusive, it's of my opinion a very serious mistake to conclude that cannabis does not create addictive behaviour in patients, psychological or otherwise.
It is also of my opinion that although these "addictive" traits may be reversable by psychotherapy and other neurological treatments, usually in patients a chemical process occurs usually a form of hypersensitivity, or additional linkages in the brain that are either a) a result of their `mental illness`/addiction or b) something that is predisposed to create their mental illness/addiction
Given the subjects of the study are human, the scope of research is finitely limited and thus important to keep an open mind, again everything in moderation! If you don't want to do things that way, that's fine, great, it's your decision. There is still no substitute for awareness!
Peace,
Denial
Here's another great link on the psychology of psychological dependence- although it substitutes chocolate for cannabis, it's a surprisingly similar physiological process:
Is Chocolate Physiologically or Psychologically Addictive?
EDIT: 2000th post :thumbsup:
I read a paper just like this! It's very interesting. I wouldn't call it unreasonable to assume a weak link between the psychological and physiological "feedback" - which links in with the research that birdgirl pulled out of her hat. Very much about dependancy, chemical or otherwise, neurological or otherwise, physically induced or otherwise! (Something that the reward system is based around - i.e. system feedback).Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple Banana
:thumbsup:
keep this coming peeopls :D
Peace,
Denial