Is religion necessary?

I used to post on the spirituality board but got bogged down with people who post their beliefs as reality. They have faith. Being agnostic on these matters it was difficult for me to comprehend how a person can give up reason and pick a path based on feelings. I have similar questions to those who are looking for answers but I'm not content with any religions answers. It's like religion has hijacked spirituality. But I'm not here to debate such things. I'm interested to know if religion is necessary.

Do we need religion in today's society?

I've not really thought too much of my own answers although the cogs of my mind are whirring away as I type. I would like to get other peoples thoughts on the subject.

Yes, and no. If your lost and don't have guidance religion is a good thing. But being close to your mother earth is what needs to be your approach.

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Originally Posted by SFGurrilla

Yes, and no. If your lost and don't have guidance religion is a good thing. But being close to your mother earth is what needs to be your approach.

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I would agree that religion has been a comfort for a lot of people. But is religion the only way to get that comfort. Is there another way? Or even a better way?

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Originally Posted by bhouncy

It's like religion has hijacked spirituality.

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Not only that, science has too.

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Originally Posted by McLeodGanja

Not only that, science has too.

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In a way maybe. But science doesn't claim to know the answers without showing proof. If science isn't happy with the results it will keep looking to get a better answer. Religion just says "this is how it is and don't question it".

Science is necessary because people don't believe something unless science can prove it somehow. Ions, Protons and Neutrons all of it is just a bigger more in depth way on how things work thats why the future is scary. Magic is nothing, manipulation of what creates and changes something is what is going to be a big deal.

it's only necessary for masters to use as a tool to divide and conquer, brain wash and exploit the people

we don't have enough faith in ourselves, why put it in something you don't even know is there

I was thinking. If religious leaders all came out together and said "we made it all up" would society fall apart? I know I've got more questions than answers but maybe someone has a good answer on this.

Yes absolutely if it was not for religion there would be millions of people on a Sunday with nothing to do, they would all probably want to go down the pub for a few beers and a game of pool, that would mean I'd never get near the bar for a drink so in my opinion they are better off going to church.

NCM

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Originally Posted by bhouncy

In a way maybe. But science doesn't claim to know the answers without showing proof. If science isn't happy with the results it will keep looking to get a better answer. Religion just says "this is how it is and don't question it".

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Both are equally as stubborn, I think.

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."-Albert Einstein

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Originally Posted by Nightcrewman

Yes absolutely if it was not for religion there would be millions of people on a Sunday with nothing to do, they would all probably want to go down the pub for a few beers and a game of pool, that would mean I'd never get near the bar for a drink so in my opinion they are better off going to church.

NCM

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You have a point. "The Devil finds work for idle hands to do"

Not necessary for sure. Sure religion tries to give people a good moral direction, but you would find that direction yourself without religion.

But unfortunately since that moral direction is forced on the followers, they will accept other things forced upon them. Do you think it's a coincidence that the most religious industrialized country in the world is turning into a police state?

And what about those who do not accept what religion tries to force upon them? They will often in their anger go and do the exact opposite that they've been told to do. Look up some statistics on the correlation between religousness and murder rate by country. The more religous a country is, the higher the murder rate.

Does religion bring people together? Sure, if they are belong to the same religion. But I've found that it is the religous people that can hate the most when they have no reason to.

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Originally Posted by McLeodGanja

Both are equally as stubborn, I think.

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."-Albert Einstein

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Your credability just went through the roof in my books!

Enlightenment is a path of open mindedness (of non limitation), interpretation involves ego and representation (limitation); enlightenment involves peace and understanding.


Peace,
Denial

I think religion is a way for our brains to understand things that are impossible to understand. All civilizations do it. Like the ones that didn't understand volcanoes so it must be god right? They believed they were bad and the volcano god blew them up...

It is a way for us to handle the loss of a love one too I think religion is a pretty amazing phenomena when you think it encompasses all civilizations in one way or another.

When we (I'm talking humans as a whole) can't understand something then we say it must be God.

I am as guilty as everyone else. I am agnostic as well but when I climb up high and see snow capped mountains as far as the eye can see and beautiful colors in rocks and the glaciers, they are a fantastic color of blue all their own...anyway I catch myself saying there must be a God.

Then I come back down and the rational side kicks in again you know what I mean? Do you do that?

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Originally Posted by BlueCat00

I think religion is a way for our brains to understand things that are impossible to understand. All civilizations do it. Like the ones that didn't understand volcanoes so it must be god right? They believed they were bad and the volcano god blew them up...

It is a way for us to handle the loss of a love one too I think religion is a pretty amazing phenomena when you think it encompasses all civilizations in one way or another.

When we (I'm talking humans as a whole) can't understand something then we say it must be God.

I am as guilty as everyone else. I am agnostic as well but when I climb up high and see snow capped mountains as far as the eye can see and beautiful colors in rocks and the glaciers, they are a fantastic color of blue all their own...anyway I catch myself saying there must be a God.

Then I come back down and the rational side kicks in again you know what I mean? Do you do that?

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The question that always gets me is what is the driving force for life. What makes all these chemicals come together to create humans and cannabis plants? But it is far too easy to say God did it. That to me is giving up. I have pondered at times that there may be a creator but because it can not at this time be fully known then it is still open to question. Maybe we see beauty as a genetic preservation. If everything was bleak and dire we may want to destroy it.

Peace.

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Originally Posted by McLeodGanja

Both are equally as stubborn, I think.

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."-Albert Einstein

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From Richard Dawkins book The God Delusion...

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One of Einstein's most eagerly quoted remarks is 'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.' But Einstein also said,

It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.

Does it seem that Einstein contradicted himself? That his words can be cherry-picked for quotes to support both sides of an argument? No. By 'religion' Einstein meant something entirely different from what is conventionally meant. As I continue to clarify the distinction between supernatural religion on the one hand and Einsteinian religion on the other, bear in mind that I am calling only supernatural gods delusional.

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Originally Posted by denial102

Your credability just went through the roof in my books!
Peace,
Denial

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I tend to flirt a lot with both ends of the spectrum of re-cognition. :jointsmile:

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Originally Posted by bhouncy

The question that always gets me is what is the driving force for life. What makes all these chemicals come together to create humans and cannabis plants?

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Autopoiesis.

It's a scientific hypothesis that will make you believe in anything, including perhaps even the most far fetched notion of a god. It's a theory that brings creationism and evolution together into one, emergence.

If we emerged out of nothing, and came into being through the magic of thought, then so must thought have. Ever thought of that, one?

It's a mind fuck, science was never meant to be easy to understand.

The chemicals that make us up are constructs of our mind, not the other way about. We create answers to the questions we are born with, it's a continual cycle that without which life would probably be a questionless mean.

I've started talking zen bollocks again, and I've forgotten what point I was trying to make. I going through to the kitchen to see if my potatoes are ready to take off the boil.

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Originally Posted by McLeodGanja

Autopoiesis.

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Thanks for the new word.

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Originally Posted by bhouncy

Thanks for the new word.

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Don't thank me.

Autopoiesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Originally Posted by McLeodGanja

Don't thank me.

Autopoiesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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That was the first place I looked when you posted it :)

I have no idea of the consequences of doing this but in the spirit of curiosity and experimentation I think we should try it for a year and see what happens. Not that this experiment is going to happen any time soon I think there will be a time in the future when it will actually happen.

Science attempts to explain the reasoning with examples and proof.

Religion attempts to explain the reasoning on faith

As humans, I think we naturally adhere to tangible ideas, at least these days. I think "faith" as far as religion is concerned is a B.S. and lazy way of explaining their reasoning.

However, many religions are seen as "glue" that holds society together. Many religions tend to have some sort of morals and values provided that help humanity. People look to religion as the answer to their problems, I think it keeps people tame. The fear of God, the golden rule, 10 commandments, ect, ect, yada yada yada

But it is far too easy to say God did it. That to me is giving up.

I don't think they have given up I just think the human brain wants to reason and it wants answers and when it doesn't have an answer it makes one up. I am not saying thats a good thing.

It is easier for me to believe we are tied to the earth like everything else.

Great thread idea BTW. :)

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Originally Posted by bhouncy

I used to post on the spirituality board but got bogged down with people who post their beliefs as reality. They have faith. Being agnostic on these matters it was difficult for me to comprehend how a person can give up reason and pick a path based on feelings. I have similar questions to those who are looking for answers but I'm not content with any religions answers. It's like religion has hijacked spirituality. But I'm not here to debate such things. I'm interested to know if religion is necessary.

Do we need religion in today's society?

I've not really thought too much of my own answers although the cogs of my mind are whirring away as I type. I would like to get other peoples thoughts on the subject.

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Well... in our todays society, much of the role that was played by religion, the role of giving explanations about the things and such, is being played by the science.
Today, what is "scientifically proved" has the same unquestionable credit of what was "written in the Bible" some centuries ago... so i think in this respect todays society is as religious as the old societies... the only difference is the religion they follow.
In my personal opinion, i think our society should be more spiritual, instead more religious. By spiritual i mean to recognize the spiritual essence of the man, to recognize that there is far more things beyond the physical, the material. And i say it as a scientist (that i am). What we touch, see, hear, and percieve with our 5 senses is only a bit of everything that exists, and is a great mistake to think that what we see is all that there is to see. But todays society believes this more and more... and its not good. It will be one of the reasons for its end.

i think our society should be more spiritual, instead more religious. By spiritual i mean to recognize the spiritual essence of the man, to recognize that there is far more things beyond the physical, the material. And i say it as a scientist (that i am). What we touch, see, hear, and percieve with our 5 senses is only a bit of everything that exists, and is a great mistake to think that what we see is all that there is to see. But todays society believes this more and more... and its not good. It will be one of the reasons for its end.


WOW! Nice. :)

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Originally Posted by Ghengis Chron

However, many religions are seen as "glue" that holds society together. Many religions tend to have some sort of morals and values provided that help humanity. People look to religion as the answer to their problems, I think it keeps people tame. The fear of God, the golden rule, 10 commandments, ect, ect, yada yada yada

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I agree with your point here, and I think it should be understood how important religion has been to the development of politics throughout history. ( without getting into all the brainwashing and population control)

Before modern political systems like democracy, communism, and socialism were founded, nations were ruled by kings, despots, and tyrants.The USA was basically founded as an experiment in democracy by Thomas Jefferson and the other founding fathers. This idea of a democratic political system of "equality and liberty for all" stemmed from the influences of the Age of enlightenment, more specifically John Locke, who was Tom's main influence.

Locke's philosophical ideas were an extension of the philosophical works of philosophers like Francis Bacon and Thomas Hobbes, and all of these people essentially relied on religion and the idea of a god to make sense of the world in their works. These philosophers "proved" in many ways how reality and existence is dependent on an all powerful god type character.

The point is many of these early ideas about politics may not have been possible if the idea of a god was unavailable to fill in important holes in early philosophical arguments. These philosophical works were necessary to enlighten mankind to the point where people were able to change their ideas of reality and ultimately lead to a complete change in society and politics.


...And the process continues as human intelligence grows and all new types of religious, scientific, and revolutionary ideas are birthed into the world every day.

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Originally Posted by Ghengis Chron

However, many religions are seen as "glue" that holds society together. Many religions tend to have some sort of morals and values provided that help humanity. People look to religion as the answer to their problems, I think it keeps people tame. The fear of God, the golden rule, 10 commandments, ect, ect, yada yada yada

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I would agree that religion has been effective in some ways to get over these morals and values but it also has a negative side where people will kill for their beliefs and the leaders of these religions are happy to have this kind of zeal in their ranks to recruit new members to their 'church'.

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Originally Posted by Coelho

Well... in our todays society, much of the role that was played by religion, the role of giving explanations about the things and such, is being played by the science.
Today, what is "scientifically proved" has the same unquestionable credit of what was "written in the Bible" some centuries ago... so i think in this respect todays society is as religious as the old societies... the only difference is the religion they follow.
In my personal opinion, i think our society should be more spiritual, instead more religious. By spiritual i mean to recognize the spiritual essence of the man, to recognize that there is far more things beyond the physical, the material. And i say it as a scientist (that i am). What we touch, see, hear, and percieve with our 5 senses is only a bit of everything that exists, and is a great mistake to think that what we see is all that there is to see. But todays society believes this more and more... and its not good. It will be one of the reasons for its end.

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Derren Brown is a classic example of someone going from the happy clappy christian that he was to religiously following reasoning. So I'm with you on what we call religion.

As far back as I recall I have always thought there is far more going on than what we know. As you say about have more than what we can sense I've had that same idea myself.

Religion can have good points to live your life by (ten commandments, etc.), but it divides people into categories. There's proof of this every time a child asks "So how are they DIFFERENT from our religion?". Just my $0.02.

I don't believe religion is necessary for anyone. I myself am a believer, but I know that there are others that have lives with the same fulfillment as mine that don't believe. I think religion can be as simple as live and let live. No one should have to deal with beliefs, whether for or against religion, stuffed down their throat.


I feel the same way about cannabis use as I do about religion. I'll talk about it if asked, but it's not something I'm going to bring up out of the blue unless I know that person is mutually interested.

:hippy:

Alot of great responses.
I also dont hink Religion is necessary but it is supposed to be a kind of guide that helps our spirituality grow. Too many people forget this and ultimately seem to be worshiping the religion more than God.

First of all, you shouldn't assume people pick their faith based on feelings. There are a lot of people that believe the historical record provides ample evidence that their faith is not misplaced.

Secondly, I don't think we need religion in today's society. But I do think we, as mankind, need faith. Faith is putting your religion into practice. It is saying, "I believe this so much I'm actually going to live it." If someone goes to church every Sunday but it doesn't effect the way he lives... then he has religion with no faith. Sadly, most people in America have such a religion.

We should all love each other and love God as God has loved us, and we should all do unto other's as we would have them to unto us. If everyone had such faith then the world would be a better place.

:rastasmoke:

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Originally Posted by bhouncy

I used to post on the spirituality board but got bogged down with people who post their beliefs as reality. They have faith. Being agnostic on these matters it was difficult for me to comprehend how a person can give up reason and pick a path based on feelings. I have similar questions to those who are looking for answers but I'm not content with any religions answers. It's like religion has hijacked spirituality. But I'm not here to debate such things. I'm interested to know if religion is necessary.

Do we need religion in today's society?

I've not really thought too much of my own answers although the cogs of my mind are whirring away as I type. I would like to get other peoples thoughts on the subject.

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Although many people world-wide cling to religion, I ask myself why these people can't accept reality on it's face. The interjection of the mysterious or superstitious is not requisite to understanding life.

Short answer: No

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Originally Posted by jsn9333

First of all, you shouldn't assume people pick their faith based on feelings. There are a lot of people that believe the historical record provides ample evidence that their faith is not misplaced.

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What I mean by feelings is that we base our decisions on how we feel about something. You can logically go through all the arguments and read up on all the historical records but in the end it either feels right or it feels wrong. Einstein couldn't accept certain theories because his feelings where telling him that they were wrong and through that he went against what was 'known' and came up with his own answers with his equations.

Some people will go against what they feel is right because logic tells them otherwise and this can cause conflicts and lack of congruence.