The Great Depression the New Recession Alcohol and Cannabis

All the talk about a looming reccession Stimulus Packages and rebates gave me pause to look back at history. Reccesions and Deppresions are cyclical things that have always been apart of american history. Looking back at the the great deppression of the late 20's and 30's people faced dire times where drought ruined the midwest, banks were not trustworthy and businessmen where leaping from their skyscrapers. They people of america maintaned their resolve and government created jobs through large civil engineering projects such as the hoover dam much of the modern interstate system and a ship building industry grew in the looming shadow of a war with the Axis powers of the world. But alchol served as a savior for the nation as well. Legalizing alchol did two things. First it took the power from violent gangs and bootleggers, It reduced the taskload of an overworked FBI and most importantly with excise taxes it provided a booming and legitmate industry that helped america pay for the great damns highways and ships that employed much of our country's disenfranchised. Now we face the shadow of Reccession and perhaps more where people are loosing their homes, China is selling us twice as many goods than we are selling them and loaning us the me money to pay for it. I say that legalization of marijuana could provide and income that the goverment to start new green civil projects. Instead of roads, windmills, instead of ships solar panels, and instead of interstate systems, cars that don't need gasoline to drive. How many people would be glad to pay taxes on a marijuana purchase if they knew it went to building a greener more sustainable tommorrow.

I agree with ya.......they'll eventually catch on that history is repeating itself once again. :thumbsup:

Have a good one!:s4:

Good points and good posts!
I want to see a new version of the Civilian Conservation Corps. That would be a fantastic way to get a bunch of long-overdue public works maintenance done right, as well as providing good jobs for troops who have just returned from war.

I couldn't have said it any better than "Cannabis Across America," which I've said before...and I believe it will increase the personal feelings of each other's lives and I think Americans deserve that.

You proved an excellent idea, it makes me happy. :jointsmile:

This cannabis abolition is causing the same kinds of social costs that alcohol abolition caused. It funnels money into an organized black market, and there is so much money involved at the higher levels that it fuels violence and corruption. I agree totally that if the government were to legalize it and tax it, they would free up police who now waste their time pursuing cannibis users, growers and dealers. And the revenues would be enormous --- we'd probably balance the budget in the first year. I don't know that it would bring about a new utopia, but it would be a step in the right direction!

a really good idea, but i did laugh "Creating a greener future" come on that is worth a giggle or two :)

:hippy:

Denial

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Originally Posted by denial102

a really good idea, but i did laugh "Creating a greener future" come on that is worth a giggle or two :)

:hippy:

Denial

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Haha! How did I miss "greener future"? That's a cornball pun that's right up my alley!

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Originally Posted by dragonrider

This cannabis abolition is causing the same kinds of social costs that alcohol abolition caused!

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At first I thought you said "abortion" haha...

But yeah, this is a great idea... Depsite the dispensary raids, which will hopefully be under full control soon, the past 8 years we have seen pretty big milestones towards cannabis decriminalization. Look at the recent threads for the vending machines despite the raids. That's probably going to leak into the pharmaceutical field as well.

There's been a dramatic increase in cannabis-related medical and social studies; protection of the myelin sheath, protection against gliomal cell cancer, reduced risk of athereosclerosis, Alzheimers, lung cancer, pain managment, help with depression... Shit, just ask Granny Storm Crow, and she'll give Wikipedia a run for their money :thumbsup:

Hopefully with a new presidency, we'll see some more spotlight shone on medical mj (and hopefully my state will soon join the 11; right now it's a 100 dollar fine and a misdemeanor with a doctor's recommendation)

Maybe they'll legalize the mass production of hemp, at the very least. I'm not saying hemp is going to save us, nor lift of economic state up, but it certainly wouldn't hurt.

oh man thats a beautiful thought!, i think we have some loops to jump through, at least with acceptance.

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Originally Posted by dragonrider

This cannabis abolition is causing the same kinds of social costs that alcohol abolition caused. It funnels money into an organized black market, and there is so much money involved at the higher levels that it fuels violence and corruption. I agree totally that if the government were to legalize it and tax it, they would free up police who now waste their time pursuing cannibis users, growers and dealers. And the revenues would be enormous --- we'd probably balance the budget in the first year. I don't know that it would bring about a new utopia, but it would be a step in the right direction!

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i agree.

However, there is no incentive for legalization. Miami is a great example. Before smugglers discovered Miami and Florida, it was nothing but retirees. Since smugglers used it as a haven, the Miami economy was built up on drug profits. While many places suffered in the recession, Miami was recession-proof. It didn't matter if it was legal or not. Money was to be made.

Legalization would improve the social situation. There would not be violence, and they'd be oversight on distribution, but economically, it wouldn't make a difference. Revenue is revenue. Drug dealers have to spend their money somewhere and it goes back into the economy anyway. The government loses a windfall in taxes, but they have plenty of incentives to keep it illegal. The law enforcement industry is profitable, and they'd do anything not to lose any funding. The legalization of marijuana is dangerous to them, it'll cost them jobs.

If the government of the United States were truly free-market, they'd tear down the barrier of entry to the hemp and marijuana industries. It makes sense on so many levels, but the economic incentive is not great enough to do so. Money talks, bullshit walks.

You need to buy alcohol because it only comes from stores.
But weed is a plant that comes from the ground. Whats the point in buying something that you can grow yourself? The only way that MJ could be controlled the same way alcohol is, is by only allowing government controlled companies to grow. Which would suck ass.

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Originally Posted by brainface

You need to buy alcohol because it only comes from stores.
But weed is a plant that comes from the ground. Whats the point in buying something that you can grow yourself? The only way that MJ could be controlled the same way alcohol is, is by only allowing government controlled companies to grow. Which would suck ass.

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This is partly true, but not totally right.

It's true people mostly buy alcohol, but you can make your own beer and wine, and some people do make thier own. I used to make my own beer, and it was cheap and really good --- just took a little time, effort and upfront expense for the equipment. I think you may even be allowed to make a certain amount of distilled spirits for your own consumption, but I'm not actually sure on that, and almost no one does make their own for safety and quality reasons.

On the subject of things grown in the ground, people mostly buy all their fruit and produce from stores, even though they could grow some of it themselves. Some people grow their own, but not many. For most people, the reason is probably convenience. You could grow your own tobacco in some parts of the country, but almost no one does. The main reason is probably convenience and quality.

So I think that if marijuana were legal and taxed, the government would mostly gain more control. They might not get control over people who just wanted to grow their own and some people who wanted to avoid paying the tax. But most people would probably want to buy it in stores for convenience, quality and legality, and the government would be able to gain control over that portion of the market.

When something is illegal and people want it bad enough, a black market will always emerge to provide it. And then it operates outside of the law, and the government has no control over it. Making it legal allows some kind of control, and people will generally prefer dealing with a safe, legal, and regulated industry rather than a black market one.

I'm almost surprised that some kind of large established industry, like the tobacco or liquor industry, hasn't recognized the potential profit in legal weed and pushed to make it legal.

shit, where can i sign up at?

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Originally Posted by dragonrider

This is partly true, but not totally right.

It's true people mostly buy alcohol, but you can make your own beer and wine, and some people do make thier own. I used to make my own beer, and it was cheap and really good --- just took a little time, effort and upfront expense for the equipment. I think you may even be allowed to make a certain amount of distilled spirits for your own consumption, but I'm not actually sure on that, and almost no one does make their own for safety and quality reasons.

On the subject of things grown in the ground, people mostly buy all their fruit and produce from stores, even though they could grow some of it themselves. Some people grow their own, but not many. For most people, the reason is probably convenience. You could grow your own tobacco in some parts of the country, but almost no one does. The main reason is probably convenience and quality.

So I think that if marijuana were legal and taxed, the government would mostly gain more control. They might not get control over people who just wanted to grow their own and some people who wanted to avoid paying the tax. But most people would probably want to buy it in stores for convenience, quality and legality, and the government would be able to gain control over that portion of the market.

When something is illegal and people want it bad enough, a black market will always emerge to provide it. And then it operates outside of the law, and the government has no control over it. Making it legal allows some kind of control, and people will generally prefer dealing with a safe, legal, and regulated industry rather than a black market one.

I'm almost surprised that some kind of large established industry, like the tobacco or liquor industry, hasn't recognized the potential profit in legal weed and pushed to make it legal.

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the bit about alcohol production, not sure if this is exactly right, but I believe if you're an adult aged 18 or older, you can produce something like 5-10 gallons of your own booze every year...Problem with that is the knowledge, time and upkeep...Similar to that of growing pot...Sure people will do it, but I'll guarantee you the utmost majority is going to go to the corner store to pick up an 1/8th rather than waiting four months for that eighth...

alcohol is a stupid comparison. and secondly, i dont know who said it, but legalizing would not help in generating revenue. and honostly would lost quite a bit, and create quite a lot of problems for the government in terms of law and prison/jail mates...

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Originally Posted by solid6

alcohol is a stupid comparison. and secondly, i dont know who said it, but legalizing would not help in generating revenue. and honostly would lost quite a bit, and create quite a lot of problems for the government in terms of law and prison/jail mates...

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Are you saying that alcohol abolition is a bad comparison to marijauna criminalization? Because I think it is a very good comparison.

Alcohol abolition created an environment in which people were willing to pay a lot of money for alcohol on the black market. That is what created the gangster culture of the 30's --- Al Capone and the rest. And that amount of money going into the hands of organized crime led to police corruption, violent acts of murder over turf wars, and other forms of crime. Eventually the country decided that whatever evils were attributable to legal alcohol were far outweighed by the problems presented by the black market.

I think the same thing is true for marijauna criminalization. We innocent peace-loving pot smokers don't like to think about it, but unless you grow your own or buy directly from a grower, you can't be sure where your weed comes from. It may actually be supplied by orgniazed crime for all you know. Certainly the large-scale marijana smugglers and distribution networks make tons of illegal money and contribute to police corruption and violent crime. The governemnt has made some anti-drug propaganda messages linking drug use to providing money to terrorists. It's a bit of a stretch, but partly true. Of course, my conclusion would be that if it were legal, that money would not go to organized crime or to terrorists, so it's stupid to shift the blame to the customer. This country needs to decide whether the evils attributable to legal marijuana are equal to the problems presented by the black market, just like we did with alcohol years ago.

As for the issue of revenue. I guess it would be hard to say what the net effects would be, But I think the governemnt would make money if they taxed legal weed. They make a lot of money on alcohol and cigarette taxes. I wasn't sure what you meant by, "would lost quite a bit, and create quite a lot of problems for the government in terms of law and prison/jail mates..." It seems to me the government would make revenue on the taxes and would save money by not paying to catch, prosecute, and imprison people involved with the weed trade. I don't think it would solve the government's budget problems (I was joking about that earlier), but I think they would definitely come out ahead of where they are now.

If you wanted to expand on your idea, I'd be interested to hear it.

Well firstly I dont need a history lesson as I know as well as you do the effects of the prohibition, as does your former president from the Kennedy's.

And the alcohol was in reference to your comment now that I look back and re-read your previous post about making your own spirits post reference to government control.

but now lets elaborate on your theory that legalizing marijuana would reduce taxes and law enforcement against it. So pot is the only war on drug then? thats an interesting conclusion.

So when they stop sniffing out dope, you think there going to give all that money back and cut taxes for federal "war on drugs" campaigns and programs, giving it back to the people?

I dont think so..

Then you have all those drug offenders (marijuana) in those nice, tiny little steel cages. sitting patiently, brewing in hate and irritation, wouldnt that be swell, just letting them free back on the street. of course they will, what other option do they have? its legal now...

but besides that, theres a million things that could be adjudicated but its just not feasible. unfortunately our country is a bit lackadaisical and change is not a easy transition here. our culture, and society at that, is far to free and unafraid of consequence. the balls of steel mentality is quite abundant, whether you like, or believe it or not.

unlike other countries, we had made a choice against it, and it stuck, but luckily for those medical users, they got themselves a break. A much needed one for some, but only in the great state of California. We cant induce a lower drinking age or legalization of drugs, because people are irrational. they are inconsiderate and some are just plain ignorant. the effects of legalizing pot would excavate the fear from those whom hid in their bedrooms smoking spliffs and keeping their dark secret, others freely amongst friends and family, but in the public eye they knew would be blackballed.

I know this because I have seen it, I have lived in many countries, democratic and communist, and I know how changes like this effect its society.

Im a free loving smoker just like im sure all of you are, but unfortunately theres a saying in the army, "theres always one", and thats very true. because unfortunatley theres always going to be one, that fucks it up for everyone else.

But keep the peace, love one another and enjoy your lives. whether you smoke or not I to feel you shouldnt have to hide or be ashamed (in a figurative way) of the good buds you smoke. If it helps you for whatever reason I hail you, and hope that your troubles or conditions can like mine, be blown away by thick green smoke.

cheers

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Originally Posted by solid6

Well firstly I dont need a history lesson as I know as well as you do the effects of the prohibition, as does your former president from the Kennedy's.

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I certainly didn't mean to lecture you on history, but it sounded like you were questioning whether alcohol prohibition was a good comparison to marijauna criminalization. I just wanted to clarify why I think it was a good comparison.

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Originally Posted by solid6

And the alcohol was in reference to your comment now that I look back and re-read your previous post about making your own spirits post reference to government control.

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When I wrote that, I was responding to the earlier post by Brainface, "You need to buy alcohol because it only comes from stores. But weed is a plant that comes from the ground."

I was just saying you can make alcohol at home legally too. You don't have to buy it in stores. Most people do buy it in stores, but some make it at home. Probably the same thing would happen with marijauna if it were legal.

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Originally Posted by solid6

but now lets elaborate on your theory that legalizing marijuana would reduce taxes and law enforcement against it. So pot is the only war on drug then? thats an interesting conclusion.

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I didn't make that conclusion --- you made that conclusion. Please don't put words in my mouth and then say I'm wrong. I said that if weed were legal, then the governemnt would save money on catching, prosecuting and imprisoning people for pot crimes that would no longer be illegal. I think that is true. Even if the rest of the so-called "War on Drugs" were to continue the same as it has, it doesn't change the fact that there would be a savings from not having to enforce pot laws if pot were legal.

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Originally Posted by solid6

So when they stop sniffing out dope, you think there going to give all that money back and cut taxes for federal "war on drugs" campaigns and programs, giving it back to the people?

I dont think so..

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Again, that's another thing I never said. I said the government would save money. I didn't say they would gve it back to us. I agree with you there --- I don't think they would necessarily give it back.

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Originally Posted by solid6

Then you have all those drug offenders (marijuana) in those nice, tiny little steel cages. sitting patiently, brewing in hate and irritation, wouldnt that be swell, just letting them free back on the street. of course they will, what other option do they have? its legal now...

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Well, the fact is those people locked up for marijuana crimes are getting out eventually no matter what. I doubt there are many people in prison for life without possibility of parole for strictly pot crimes. So, yeah, they may be a bit screwed up after their prison experience, but in my opinion they should never have been in there in the first place. And I don't see any good reaaon to keep sending more into prison for the same crimes, just to get screwed up by thier prison experience and eventually be let back out. It is another one of the social costs of criminalization. We end up sending people to prison for relatively harmless marijuana crimes, and while they are there they get turned into REAL criminals and get let back out. I think we should stop doing that.

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Originally Posted by solid6

but besides that, theres a million things that could be adjudicated but its just not feasible. unfortunately our country is a bit lackadaisical and change is not a easy transition here. our culture, and society at that, is far to free and unafraid of consequence. the balls of steel mentality is quite abundant, whether you like, or believe it or not.

unlike other countries, we had made a choice against it, and it stuck, but luckily for those medical users, they got themselves a break. A much needed one for some, but only in the great state of California. We cant induce a lower drinking age or legalization of drugs, because people are irrational. they are inconsiderate and some are just plain ignorant. the effects of legalizing pot would excavate the fear from those whom hid in their bedrooms smoking spliffs and keeping their dark secret, others freely amongst friends and family, but in the public eye they knew would be blackballed.

I know this because I have seen it, I have lived in many countries, democratic and communist, and I know how changes like this effect its society.

Im a free loving smoker just like im sure all of you are, but unfortunately theres a saying in the army, "theres always one", and thats very true. because unfortunatley theres always going to be one, that fucks it up for everyone else.

But keep the peace, love one another and enjoy your lives. whether you smoke or not I to feel you shouldnt have to hide or be ashamed (in a figurative way) of the good buds you smoke. If it helps you for whatever reason I hail you, and hope that your troubles or conditions can like mine, be blown away by thick green smoke.

cheers

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Well, you are probably right that legalization is not very likely. And you are probably right that it wouldn't suddenly make smoking weed socially acceptable. But that doesn't mean there are not good reasons why it should be made legal.

Not everyone would grow weed. It takes a lot of time, money and effort, which are three things people don't really like to spend a lot of. If there were a situation where you could go to the store and get it or grow it yourself, 90% of people would just go to the store. How many people do you know that brew their own beer? Not many I bet. Same idea.

Also, all the government would have to do to make the most money is not only tax it, but also have some kind of fee to pay to be a grower. Some kind of annual fee for something like a growing license so you could grow it yourself and if you wanted to sell it to businesses or start you own to sell what you grow, they could require another license to do so. This would regulate quality by itself because people do not want shitty weed, so it would weed out poor products from shitty growers. Also, having a license required to sell the marijuana to make sure that they are not selling to minors, similar to a liquor store.

To argue that there's more money in keeping it illegal, how do you figure? Every time someone is charged with a crime related to marijuana, they have to take the time to book them, they have to show up in court, and a long list of things. I have never been busted (*knock knock*) but several people I know have and it is a long, drawn out, expensive process that the government pays for. Sure, the "offender" usually has to pay a fine, but the state pays the wage of everyone involved with taking the time out of their day to deal with a "crime" related to something that is as personal of a choice as choosing to drink alcohol. Also, this would not eliminate jobs from the police, it would just make them more productive in actually helping people and stopping crimes that matter rather than arresting marijuana users and causing more harm to their life than marijuana itself.

Most of the people in jail are non-violent drug offenders, so yeah, I'm sure they would be pissed if they were released since they knew all along it was no big deal, but I don't think it would really be a problem.

As far as overall legalization of all drugs, I really don't support it. I recently watched a video of Barry Cooper (Never Get Busted DVD) giving a speech in New Hampshire and he said he feels that if you want to snort meth and spend all day in a bath tub twacked out, then you should be able to. I don't agree with that because meth is a drug that will actually ruin your life, as well as the life of any children and family someone might have. Meth can and will kill people, which I guess is their choice, but they have to be a tweak for the rest of their lives before they die, and who wants to deal with a bunch of legalized tweaks? Marijuana on the other hand is safe and has never killed anyone. I realize that no one should make choices for other people, but I don't think freedom of choice should over ride common sense. Marijuana is a relatively good thing, with no real risks involved, whereas other drugs like meth, heroin, etc. can hook you and completely dominate your life.

Well those are just my thoughts on the subject. :stoned:

Peace.

^^^ You make some great points here. I totally agree.

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Originally Posted by dragonrider

I didn't make that conclusion --- you made that conclusion. Please don't put words in my mouth and then say I'm wrong. I said that if weed were legal, then the governemnt would save money on catching, prosecuting and imprisoning people for pot crimes that would no longer be illegal. I think that is true. Even if the rest of the so-called "War on Drugs" were to continue the same as it has, it doesn't change the fact that there would be a savings from not having to enforce pot laws if pot were legal.

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Again, that's another thing I never said. I said the government would save money. I didn't say they would gve it back to us. I agree with you there --- I don't think they would necessarily give it back.

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Well, the fact is those people locked up for marijuana crimes are getting out eventually no matter what. I doubt there are many people in prison for life without possibility of parole for strictly pot crimes. So, yeah, they may be a bit screwed up after their prison experience, but in my opinion they should never have been in there in the first place. And I don't see any good reaaon to keep sending more into prison for the same crimes, just to get screwed up by thier prison experience and eventually be let back out. It is another one of the social costs of criminalization. We end up sending people to prison for relatively harmless marijuana crimes, and while they are there they get turned into REAL criminals and get let back out. I think we should stop doing that.

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well first off I would like to say I don't know how to quote so I will apologize in advance.

As for the first portion, you did indeed say that. if you look at post permalink 5, you did indeed say that, no you didn't say "theory" but you agreed with someone else's deduction enlightening you to feel the same way. the use of theory is then rightfully justified, as it the your conclusion, stated in such post.

the second quote. that was rhetorical, i was just elaborating a realistic consequence being effected by this debate. but understand your response.

the third is pretty much how I feel. of course there not in for life, but theres a bit more too it which I think you touched on some of it.


for the rest, I say well rebuddled. this is one of those subjects that is tied together with a multitude of others, making it a difficult knot to untie. legalized or not, it is going to do positive and negative, but the government and the people, both have to be ready for that change. and unfortunately right now I dont believe we are ready for it.

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Originally Posted by solid6

well first off I would like to say I don't know how to quote so I will apologize in advance.

As for the first portion, you did indeed say that. if you look at post permalink 5, you did indeed say that, no you didn't say "theory" but you agreed with someone else's deduction enlightening you to feel the same way. the use of theory is then rightfully justified, as it the your conclusion, stated in such post.

the second quote. that was rhetorical, i was just elaborating a realistic consequence being effected by this debate. but understand your response.

the third is pretty much how I feel. of course there not in for life, but theres a bit more too it which I think you touched on some of it.


for the rest, I say well rebuddled. this is one of those subjects that is tied together with a multitude of others, making it a difficult knot to untie. legalized or not, it is going to do positive and negative, but the government and the people, both have to be ready for that change. and unfortunately right now I dont believe we are ready for it.

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Thanks for clearing that up a bit.

If you want to take a long quote of a whole post and then split it up into chunks the way I did, it is sort of a pain in the ass.

When you first hit the Quote button, the original post you are quoting will appear in the editing area and will start with something like QUOTE=solid6;1799233 surronded by brackets (I can't show the brackets or the site will read it as code). That is what tells the system that this is a quote and where the original post is, and it gives a way to jump back to the original post being quoted.

The post being quoted will be ended with /QUOTE surrounded by brackets. That's what tellls the system where the quote ends.

To break up the quote into chunks, copy or type the /QUOTE with the brackets to the end of where you want the first chunk. Be sure to include both the brackets. Then you can type your response to the first chunk.

Copy the QUOTE=solid6;1799233 part with the brackets to the begining of the next chunk. And so on. As long as the chunks of text begin with the begining quote tag and end with the ending quote tag, it will appear in your post as a chunk that was quoted from an earlier post and will have the link back to the original post.

When you do this kind of thing, it's a good idea to preview your post with the Preview Post button. It's possible to make a mistake and have it come out screwed up. The most common problem is deleting one of the brackets or forgetting to begin or finish the quote section properly.

What you are failing to understand is that all Senators and Congressmen in Washington DC are paid in campaign contributions to protect the "Big Pharma" industry. Marijuana is a direct competitor to Big Pharmas money making products.

Who is the Marijuana Lobby and how much do they bribe (contribute) to the political campaigns compared to the Big Pharma lobbiests?

A US Senator must raise well over $10,000 per day in office just to support the next election campiagn to keep thier job. You cannot realistically expect them to ever support legalization of Marijuana when they already know it will cost them thier job.

Stop being so simplistic and wasting all your time enumerating the logic behind legalization. LOGIC DOES NOT APPLY HERE!

regards,
Max Blast

thanks dragon ^^!

Yup. We should start with repealing all federal laws regarding cannabis.

Also, if we got rid of the IRS, then everyone would have more money to save and spend. The government does not need the money from us. If you took the money they got from the IRS out of the current budget, they would be back at 2000 levels.

Ending the war in Iraq would save the country a lot of money. Money that could be used to repair our infrastructure.

Also the Federal Reserve keeps printing more money, thus causing inflation, and devaluing all our dollars.

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Originally Posted by angry nomad

Also, if we got rid of the IRS, then everyone would have more money to save and spend. The government does not need the money from us. If you took the money they got from the IRS out of the current budget, they would be back at 2000 levels.

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I've heard you say this before but I never remembered to ask, where does the rest of the government's revenue come from? I would have thought that the majority of the government's revenue comes from the IRS. If there was no revenue from the IRS, but the governemnt would still have the same revenue as it did in 2000, where would the rest come from?

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Originally Posted by dragonrider

I've heard you say this before but I never remembered to ask, where does the rest of the government's revenue come from? I would have thought that the majority of the government's revenue comes from the IRS. If there was no revenue from the IRS, but the governemnt would still have the same revenue as it did in 2000, where would the rest come from?

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Less than half comes from the IRS. All the other taxes such as consumption taxes, and corporate income taxes make up the rest.

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Originally Posted by angry nomad

Less than half comes from the IRS. All the other taxes such as consumption taxes, and corporate income taxes make up the rest.

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I don't think that is true. I think it's about 75% personal income tax and about 25% total for corporate income tax, excise taxes, estate and gift taxes, customs and other miscellaneous. And of that, aren't corporate income taxes and estate and gift taxes collected through the IRS too? I'm guessing if you ditch the IRS, maybe you'll get 10% of current revenue.

It is disgusting how uninformed everyone is. THE US GOVERNMENT CAN NOT JUST LEGALIZE WEED! There are international treaties which ban such things. Everyone on here bitches about being informed and you all dont even pay attention.

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Originally Posted by HerbalConfusion

It is disgusting how uninformed everyone is. THE US GOVERNMENT CAN NOT JUST LEGALIZE WEED! There are international treaties which ban such things. Everyone on here bitches about being informed and you all dont even pay attention.

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What treaties do you speak of?

And if such treaties exist, what would other countries do to us if we did re-legalize it? bomb us?

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Originally Posted by ANAVRIN RX

oh man thats a beautiful thought!, i think we have some loops to jump through, at least with acceptance.

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i have a trampoline!

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Originally Posted by HerbalConfusion

It is disgusting how uninformed everyone is. THE US GOVERNMENT CAN NOT JUST LEGALIZE WEED! There are international treaties which ban such things. Everyone on here bitches about being informed and you all dont even pay attention.

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I'm interested in the source of this as well.

Regardless of whether or not the international treaty thing is true, no country follows treaties/protocols 100%.

what about the benifits of hemp fiber we spend more on importing it because its illegal to grow here,but we must have it because it simply cant be substituted when making materials. You know how animal protection and other people bitch about the damage of removing plants and animals from thier habitats. What about hemp and cannabis there must be an environmental impact from removing these beutiful plants. They have as much a right to be here on this earth as us maybee even more. I read somewhere once that an acre of hemp can produce as much oxygen as i think it was around 10 acres (cant really remember) but it was astounding how much air these plants can process into clean air even more than a full grown tree! on the dicovery channel thety were talking about making artificial trees that could do the same job BUT would COST BIG $$$$$. Why dont they just open thier eyes and see the soulution to the GREENhouse problem. + it makes a wonderful in between season crop and actually makes the ground more furtile.

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Originally Posted by HerbalConfusion

It is disgusting how uninformed everyone is. THE US GOVERNMENT CAN NOT JUST LEGALIZE WEED! There are international treaties which ban such things. Everyone on here bitches about being informed and you all dont even pay attention.

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no it is a federal law there are treaties telling other governments to do the same OUR government the U.S. gov. is the main antagonist practicaly bullying other nations into this agreement THE FRONT LINES OF THE WAR ON CANNABIS IS HERE!!! your name suites u perfect.:thumbsup: sorry for the double post:jointsmile:

See attached.

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Originally Posted by WaZ

See attached.

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Prohibition --> Black Market --> Murder

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Originally Posted by WaZ

See attached.

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Originally Posted by dragonrider

Prohibition --> Black Market --> Murder

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Wow that blew my mind. I loved the idea the OP had, but the murder.. whoa.

I wonder what kind of data is out there from the cities and such that decriminalized. If we got the public's opinion captured with something GOOD like reducing murder rates by legalizing weed that would be great, but there is a chance it doesn't catch on and then people associate weed with "wasn't there something in the news about weed and murder being related? I think the decriminalized areas had higher murder rates."

At which point we are worse off in positioning. Sadly it is probably more likely that people wouldn't care much anyway. Most people throw words like global warming around and don't do a thing to stop it let alone understand the problem.

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Originally Posted by HerbalConfusion

It is disgusting how uninformed everyone is. THE US GOVERNMENT CAN NOT JUST LEGALIZE WEED! There are international treaties which ban such things. Everyone on here bitches about being informed and you all dont even pay attention.

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Unfortunately, very unfortunately, he is right. There is indeed international treatises banning the consumption of cannabis.
Look at:

Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Originally Posted by The link above

The Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs is an international treaty to prohibit production and supply of specific (nominally narcotic) drugs and of drugs with similar effects except under licence for specific purposes, such as medical treatment and research.

Earlier treaties had only controlled opium, coca, and derivatives such as morphine, heroin and cocaine. The Single Convention, adopted in 1961, consolidated those treaties and broadened their scope to include cannabis and drugs whose effects are similar to those of the drugs specified. The Commission on Narcotic Drugs and the World Health Organization were empowered to add, remove, and transfer drugs among the treaty's four Schedules of controlled substances. The International Narcotics Control Board was put in charge of administering controls on drug production, international trade, and dispensation. The United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC) was delegated the Board's day-to-day work of monitoring the situation in each country and working with national authorities to ensure compliance with the Single Convention.

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Yeah, i know... its sad but true... :(

I'm all for it, but do you think that the legalisation would generate even near the amount alcohol did?

I mean, the numbers are so different.
I don't doubt it would give the economy a boost, but would it really have that big of an impact?