Foliar Feeding & Liquid Light, Miracle Food or Hoax?

Iâ??ve never foliar fed, so I guess itâ??s time to start. Heard good things. Actually Iâ??ve been hearing good things for years but have been reluctant to put another 4 or 5 items in my storage area, and an additional reoccurring dent in my bank account. My wife is absolutely thrilled when I pull that crap, and itâ??s been going on ever since I told her years ago that she can be happy now, because Iâ??m pretty much done spending money on the project, other than for the basic stuff like one veg nute and one bloom nute, and some PH down. Iâ??m not sure how many times I told her I was done, but itâ??s at least several or more. Sorry babe. Love ya and thanks for your semi-patience. The supply area reminds me of the Stephen King story where the plant matter slowly took over the guy, and he eventually became mostly a plant before killing himself. The area for my nutrients stuff just keeps spreading and growing, and has breached the boundaries of the nutrients cabinet. I think thereâ??s a peppermint Schnapps in the back that I could take out for a little more precious space. Quick tip: Get various sizes of squeeze bottles from a candy/cake making supplier. Theyâ??re awesome for storing and dispensing nutrients, chemicals and mixes. You get to control the flow from the bottle by where you cut the tip off the spout, and they have a cap the does OK at keeping stuff in when you shake it. Plus you can store them away from the bulky jugs. I love em, but I digress. A lot. Sorry.

Today I bought both Dutch Masters veg and bloom Folitech, and their wetting agent called Penetrator. As many of you probably know, that stuff is for foliar feeding. Tomorrow I will return them and get Liquid Light instead. At least I am leaning very heavily in that direction. It does everything that the Folitechs do, plus some greatly improved stuff. Or something. Check this out from the mfg, and hereâ??s where I am forced to ROF and LMAO:

Designed to massively increase the amount of light your plants can use, LIQUID LIGHT will turn your plants into light processing power houses - using over 60% more of the light you provide!. Get 600w performance from a 400w light â?? with LIQUID LIGHT its easy!

Liquid Light specs and directions:
http://www.dutchmaster.com.au/products/products.php?product=2
Dutch Master home page:
http://www.dutchmaster.com.au

Iâ??m not wrong here am I? Dutch Master is generally accepted as top of the line stuff, right?

Are the instructions for foliar feeding in the above link pretty much the way you people foliar feed? Or is it more likely that Liquid Light is an abnormal foliar feeding agent? I am very worried about this:

1. Ensure your lights are on and will be for at least the next 3 hours. This is very important!
2. Make sure your lights are a minimum of 18 to 24 inches from the tops of your plants then spray your plantsâ?¦ at some point they say to spray until it pools and runs off.

Nooo. Please, you are not supposed to leave standing liquid on your leaves under bright light, or it acts like a magnifying glass in the sun focused on a frog, and fries the living daylights out of it. So what the heck are they trying to do to me? Iâ??ve got enough crap going on that I donâ??t need the aggravation of a fried crop, of which Iâ??ve spent many, many hours with. Certainly more than my pets. I hope not more than my family. Of course I could move the lights back a safe distance, but that would defeat the whole purpose of Liquid Light. Either that or I completely misunderstand what the concepts are here. The other stuff Iâ??ve read about what time of the day to foliar feed, says as soon as the lights come on or 10 minutes or so before the lights go out. Also what about their Max FX which you are supposed to spray on alternate days? Plus, they have some more things they want you to add. So much crap for some foliar feeding, but if it would even do ¼ of what they claim, it would be well worth the money and effort. Has anyone used these products, and if so do you do it according to the directions?

To make an extremely long and drawn out question short, What do you people use to foliar feed and how and when do you do it. Time of day, number of days, anything. What kind of sprayer do you use? I got one of them fancy schmancy pump up ones with an extended, aimable brass nozzle. I just hope it sprays nice and fine and thorough instead of in hot spots. Iâ??ve been looking for a good one for years and have bought at least 8. This is the most expensive one Iâ??ve bought so far, but itâ??s not the best there is, Iâ??m sure. It was like $25 or something.

Thanks very much, and Iâ??m very sorry for the long and broken up, rambling, drawn out question. I could go on, but Iâ??m pretty baked right now and itâ??s kinda hard to be eloquent and keep a straight line of thought. More baked than Iâ??ve been in several days, and notice that I choose to spend it with you guys. Love ya, sniffâ?¦

By the way, I know the top of the fridge is not the best spot for nutrients, since heat comes up the back. Iâ??m arranging another space in a few days. I have a mini refrigerator. What are anybodyâ??s thoughts on storing nutrients and stuff in a fridge? Seems like it can only be a good thing. They have the Clonex in the fridge at the hydro store. Wow, my neck is sore. I need a VR suit in a gravity-free pod when Iâ??m using the computer.

...

Oh and there's more. Some gallon containers of stuff in the laundry room and cloning gel in the fridge. Soon I'll need several rooms.

I'm kinda eager to hear some replies on this, too. I've foliar fed before, but only when I wanted to treat a plant for a specific issue. I've never done it as part of a nutrient regimen.

By the way, Opie: Hilarious post! And keep on smoking, chief...it brings out an entirely different kind of eloquence in you. The humorous kind.

dam opie, quite a collection you have there.

now i gotta go to the store, feel like i have nothing in comparison. (pic)

but on topic, never heard of foliar feeding, but looks very intresting (Foliar feeding - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) hope it works out for you

found a few articles that may be useful

Foliar Feeding Factsheet - Gardening Australia - ABC
foliar feeding
Foliar Feeding of Plant Nutrients

or maby not thought there were prity intresting though

Must be some Miracle Grow in those piles HeHe:D:D

No, the MG is in a cupboard in the laundry room, right by the Osmocoat. Both haven't moved for about 5 years.

Oh man, that's nothing. Ya shoulda seen the pantry last time I ripped out. :wtf:
Wait'll ya start thinking about getting a pesticide applicator's cert- that's the mark of somebody who's losing it. Or buying very specific compunds from chemical suppliers...

Have ya discovered Crop Production Services, Inc. yet? Ya can get anything,:thumbsup:
but ya gotta buy a pallet.:wtf:

I kinda think of foliar feeding as a medicinal treatment- It's something that I do as a respose to a situation, not as part of a regular nutrition regimen. What I'm putting on, and the concentration, are dictated by symptoms.

At one point, I ran a big system that had to be maintained at a pH of >7.5 ( Don't ask- there were fish involved) Macro availability was w/in tolerance, but there were absolutely no metals available. I'd run a micro supplement (used a couple differant- Greenair Mineral Matrix, Cropking's micro to 100-150ppm), a little ferrous sulphate, Proteckt, and some seaweed as a wetting agent ( also GA). ( Ca & Mg avail due to all that lime for those damn fish)

(Hit that space a couple of times w/ Cal-Nite as well, but special circumstances.)

For that we used a compresser and an auto-body sprayer. Caution- Protekt will hose on an auto sprayer.

In less surreal circumstances, I like a 1/2 gallon pump sprayer for most stuff- keep the pressure real high and the aperture real small- particle size counts. You want the finest mist you can achieve. You can get a really fine mist with a hand sprayer, but the mechanism fails damned quick. Metal tips hold up better than plastic. Wands aren't as handy as they seem.

Foliar's my preferred method for growth regulators- I really like Bushmaster and Purple Maxx as foliars- 3ml/g on the purple, more like 2 on the bushmaster.

Really, anything where there's a fine line between effective and toxic, I'll try to go foliar- you have much better dose control building a level over a couple of days , rather than pouring something into soil where it will take several days to be effective. Most toxicities will first show as leaf symptomology, but at that point the whole plant has a systemic toxicity that's gotta work it's way through. If you keep your application concentrations really low, and build tissue levels w/ repeated doses, it's easier to catch things before they go to far.

Doesn't work as well for the macros- you're just trying to move to many ions in the wrong direction. Way too easy to build toxic concentrations in leaf tissue way too fast.

Oddly enough, a little electrostatic charge will really help penetration on a foliar. Remember, there's leaf surface penetration and there's canopy penetration- the best chemistry on Earth won't help if you're missing stuff.

I like to spray from a couple feet back, to give the mist a little space to particularize ( is that even a word?)- :hippy:more like a fog, less like a monsoon.:hippy:

Pardon my stonedness.

rhizome,

You use your mouth prettier than a $20 whore. The things you know about that I've never heard of continue to surprise me. Thank you for dropping in and giving me more things to research. I hope you donâ??t mind a couple six more questions.

Wait'll ya start thinking about getting a pesticide applicator's cert- that's the mark of somebody who's losing it.
Wow, taking it to the boundaries and beyond.

Or buying very specific compunds from chemical suppliers...
Iâ??ve actually wanted to look more into this, but Iâ??m too afraid I will invent some miracle food and become a rich snob.

Have ya discovered Crop Production Services, Inc. yet?
Not yet, but I will.

I kinda think of foliar feeding as a medicinal treatment- It's something that I do as a respose to a situation, not as part of a regular nutrition regimen. What I'm putting on, and the concentration, are dictated by symptoms.
Iâ??ve read a lot of things lately that say it is a good idea to feed through the leaves as well as the roots. And Iâ??ve read that it is a very good way to fix deficiencies because you will see results in a matter of minutes instead of days or weeks. The plant gets extra food over the nutrient EC maximum. I figure that's gotta be a good thing. I'm forcing food down the stomata. Is this naive?

For that we used a compresser and an auto-body sprayer. Caution- Protekt will hose on an auto sprayer.
I think Iâ??m getting a better idea of the scale of your projects.

In less surreal circumstances, I like a 1/2 gallon pump sprayer for most stuff- keep the pressure real high and the aperture real small- particle size counts. You want the finest mist you can achieve. You can get a really fine mist with a hand sprayerâ?¦
Yeah, thatâ??s what I was thinking and I hope this newest one does that.

â?¦but the mechanism fails damned quick.
Oh way to rain on my parade.

Really, anything where there's a fine line between effective and toxic, I'll try to go foliar- you have much better dose control building a level over a couple of days , rather than pouring something into soil where it will take several days to be effective.
Iâ??ve never thought about that advantage but it makes perfect sense.

If you keep your application concentrations really low, and build tissue levels w/ repeated doses, it's easier to catch things before they go to far.
Are you saying that you can actually increase the thickness of the foliage, or is it like the cellular structure, or well what do you mean build tissue levels? Is this done with silicone? Lord I probably sound like an idiot.

Doesn't work as well for the macros- you're just trying to move to many ions in the wrong direction. Way too easy to build toxic concentrations in leaf tissue way too fast.
Glad you asked. So it works fine for micros like Iron? Because you asked me once if I was sure my N deficiency wasnâ??t really Fe chlorosis. The more I learn about that and compare it to my plants, the more I think it is. What do you recommend I foliar spray to improve the iron content. I may try some CalMag. If I understand correctly, youâ??re saying foliar feeding doesnâ??t work well for the macros like N,P,K but it does for the micro nutrients?

Oddly enough, a little electrostatic charge will really help penetration on a foliar.
So how do I do DIY that without electrocuting myself?

One last thing I've been wondering but keep forget to ask. Can you basically foliar feed with anything you feed the roots with? With the exception of the macro nutrients not being absorbed as well, would the micros be about the same thing? Bleahg - I can talk, what I mean is, can I mix up my grow nutes and foliar feed with them during the veg cycle, and can I use my bud nutes to foliar feed during the budding cycle? Etc.?

Thanks again for all your help rhizome, and anyone else jumping in here.

Morning OP-

The plant gets extra food over the nutrient EC maximum. I figure that's gotta be a good thing. I'm forcing food down the stomata. Is this naive?

Just watch yourself- it's really easy to OD and fry yer shit ( talking crispy fried), esp w/ N. The plant gets extra nutes, which it may or may not be able to handle.

Are you saying that you can actually increase the thickness of the foliage, or is it like the cellular structure, or well what do you mean build tissue levels? Is this done with silicone? Lord I probably sound like an idiot.


Not at all- we're getting into weird science here. Referring to relative concentration of elements in tissue, tho foliar application of silica is associated with a thicker cell membrane. Silica, not silicone...;)

What do you recommend I foliar spray to improve the iron content.

Any good micro supplement will do the trick- see if yer local carries a product called " Spray & Grow". I like the citrate, rather than the EDTA, but that's a mighty fine point. Lotta liquified seaweeds are iron fortified these days, as well.

If I understand correctly, youâ??re saying foliar feeding doesnâ??t work well for the macros like N,P,K but it does for the micro nutrients?

Really more a matter of it maybe working too well- beware the fry factor.

One last thing I've been wondering but keep forget to ask. Can you basically foliar feed with anything you feed the roots with? With the exception of the macro nutrients not being absorbed as well, would the micros be about the same thing? Bleahg - I can talk, what I mean is, can I mix up my grow nutes and foliar feed with them during the veg cycle, and can I use my bud nutes to foliar feed during the budding cycle? Etc.?


Well, full strength nute will almost certainly fry leaf tissue- I'd cut it down to like 10% dose. Try to avoid getting flowers wet too often, as it can lead to fungal issues. Do yerself a favor and don't spray mollasses, or LK, or anything w/ a high sucrose level, as it will leave sticky surface sugars which will attact bugs and bacteria.

Again, I don't really think of foliars as a primary source of nutrients, except in truely esoteric circumstances.

Just 'cause ya can, doesn't always mean that ya should...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Opie Yutts

Oddly enough, a little electrostatic charge will really help penetration on a foliar.
So how do I do DIY that without electrocuting myself?

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You in dirt or water?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rhizome

tho foliar application of silica is associated with a thicker cell membrane...

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Rhizome - Haven't seen you around here much lately. Hope you had a great holiday season!

What are the advantages of a thicker cell membrane? Is it anything that would warrant using silica on a regular basis as a matter of practice?

When you have a chance, would you please take a look at this thread and see if you have any thoughts on the subject. Thanks!!

PC :smokin:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Opie Yutts

Oddly enough, a little electrostatic charge will really help penetration on a foliar.
So how do I do DIY that without electrocuting myself?

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You fucking sissy! Wadda ya' think - you're going to live forever?:D

PC :smokin:

Heya PC- replyed in the other thread.

Thanks again for looking in rhizome, and to answer your question I am in water.

Don't worry I'm getting your point. Don't fry them. I understand. Everything within moderation, especially at first. I trust you very much, but I've just read too many good things lately not to give it a try. The guy at the hydro store made it sound like a miracle technique, Dutch Masters basically claims their Liquid Light is a miracle food, much the way you introduced SubCulture to me. That thread and the other things I read made it sound like a person would have to be a complete idiot to not use it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PharmaCan

Wadda ya' think - you're going to live forever?:D

PC :smokin:

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Why? Does this not fit in with your plans?

Actually, no. It's depressing when you look at the stats and compare where I am on those age-wize.

yo rhizome that pic of cheney is making me feel sick

Well I went to get Liquid Light today, and the Spray n Grow rhizome recommended, and a couple more things. Turns out you cannot get the LL in my area at this time. Something about a problem with the info on the label. My guess is they decided to not actually lie, like they do on their web site. I mean come on, Really. It turns a 400 watt light into a 600. Not happening.

So, added to my supply area today,
- Dutch Master Max FX grow
- Dutch Master Max FX flower
- Spray-N-Grow micronutrient complex and biocatalyst (0.10% iron)
- 4 calibration fluid
- 7 calibration fluid
Coming Soon:
- Dutch Master Liquid Light

Anyone interested in trying foliar feeding as feeding supplement, I recommend you look here:
Dutch Master: FOLIAR TECHNOLOGIES
That page also talks about "Reverse" you may or may not have heard so much about, which stops hermies from producing male flowers (they say).

Just to throw in some (possibly) useless info here. I'm not at ALL scientific but my hydro guys knows me pretty well....and if this foliar spraying thing were that terrific I'm sure he would have mentioned it to me.. Everytime I go in I ask him if there is anything more I should be doing so and the last 4-5 times there hasn't been so I'm pretty darn sure I've updated my data recently. :D

Have you asked your hydro guys what their thoughts are on foliar feeding? I mean ones that have tried it? I hope it's not a complete sham (what? Dutch Master lie to me?), or I just wasted... I don't know but it's well over $100. My hydro guys in two different stores were very excited about it. They say it absolutely makes the plants go crazy. Sorry people, I just gotta try, especially since they won't take back nutrients.

Oldjim, thanks for those links.

no problem, sorry i couldnt be more helpful, just have not a clue about thius subject, this is actually the 1st time ive heard of it, but it looks very intresting

I remember foliar application of a tea made of chelated iron and silica derived from a boiled horsetail-weed, applied via high-pressure spray gun, at this facility where I used to tech... the particle size is much nicer than a hand-squeeze sprayer. I'm trying to think if there's a smaller-scale equivalent for home use.

I sure wish there was. I vaguely remember seeing some hand sprayers in the hundred dollar range. I would hope these would spray a fine mist in a full cone, instead of just the outer edges of a cone like most do. All they have to do is install a proper nozzle.

I was thinking. I wonder if a system intended for airbrushing graphics would work. Seems like it should; it's basically a scaled-down auto body sprayer. The only thing I would be concerned about was making sure that the solution does not corrode the cone in the sprayer, since it's salty and acidic. You'd want to rinse out VERY well, maybe even running some alcohol (solvent) through as the last rinse step to get all traces of water out of there and make it work for longer.

Now that is a great idea. I've got like 4 or 5 of them around here somewhere, probably not unpacked from 5 years ago. A couple are kind of trashed and maybe I could try one. But where the heck is that little compressor?

OMG.....and you think X-C and I are geeks....auto sprayer...:S2:
Cannot WAIT to see this. :D

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Originally Posted by Weedhound

OMG.....and you think X-C and I are geeks....auto sprayer...:S2:
Cannot WAIT to see this. :D

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Well you ARE... but in a different way.
I want to put together a canncom team and compete in Junkyard Wars. I nominate xcrispi to be team captain, since it appears he's unusually mechanically inclined! :D

Now that would be fun.

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Originally Posted by stinkyattic

Well you ARE... but in a different way.
I want to put together a canncom team and compete in Junkyard Wars. I nominate xcrispi to be team captain, since it appears he's unusually mechanically inclined! :D

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Team CanCom - we get the other side too stoned to fight. :D

PC :stoned:

Good team motto PC.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stinkyattic

I was thinking. I wonder if a system intended for airbrushing graphics would work. Seems like it should; it's basically a scaled-down auto body sprayer. The only thing I would be concerned about was making sure that the solution does not corrode the cone in the sprayer, since it's salty and acidic. You'd want to rinse out VERY well, maybe even running some alcohol (solvent) through as the last rinse step to get all traces of water out of there and make it work for longer.

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ok, I know EXACTLY what u need if u wanna do it with a gun.

HVLP
High Volume Low Pressure gun.
like a autospray paint gun, but uses a vacume turbine blower instead of a compressior.

AND, some companies used PLASTIC tip components.
i know 1 co. did for sure and i have some of their old equipment!

if u use a 0.073in nozzle, theres no chance u can get clogged and can always open the needle valve-style tip to blow out any gunk.

i'll look around, i know i have a couple of them here.

if i can find the setup, you're welcome to try it out.
u'll need to supply ur own turbine tho, that i wont give up.

a small shop vac can be easily rigged to do it.


-(edit)- i'm gonna go get some liquid lite, they had it at 2 places about a month or 2 ago and i didnt do it, now u got me psyched.

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Originally Posted by Rock.Steady

-(edit)- i'm gonna go get some liquid lite, they had it at 2 places about a month or 2 ago and i didnt do it, now u got me psyched.

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And with good reason. I got a free sample of Liquid Light and Penetrator (be sure to use Penetrator), did 2 applications, and all I can say at this point is oh my, holy cow, holy crap, oh my God, good night, man, whew...

More to come.

I wrote all about it, then it got wiped out during the recent improvements. Maybe I can muster up the will power to try again later.

Anybody who tries it be sure to take a "before" picture to compare it to "after". I wish I did.

Opie
2 things,,,

1- i totally spaced on finding my spray gun, its on todays "to do" list;)

2- i got the LL yesterday, 1 local place has it. they do ship, i can give u their info, OR, i can get it for you and send it.
I only saw 1 size, the 34oz/1L was 50 bones.

not sure if they had a bigger size:wtf:

lemme kno bro:D


ps- i started using it, see the B.R. and P-scrog logs for results.
and i did do a b4 pic as u mentioned.;)

ok, found the old cupgun.:D
you can prolly get the residual coating off the inside of the cup with a strong solvent, or get a cheapo replacement from a place like Harbor Freight.

want it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rock.Steady

i got the LL yesterday, 1 local place has it. they do ship, i can give u their info, OR, i can get it for you and send it ...lemme kno bro

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Thanks for thinking of your fellow stoner, I really appreciate the offer. I'll pass though, because I have a few ounces left from the sample, and tomorrow morning will be the last time this grow for me to foliar feed. I'm too paranoid about bud rot, since the hydro store guy said I should only foliar feed during the first week of flowering. Tomorrow will be 3 1/2 weeks into flower, but I've got about 30 humidity which isn't real conducive to mold or fungus growth. I'm hoping in a month or so when my next grow gets going good the stores around here will carry it, if not I was going to order it on line. Long story short, no thank you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rock.Steady

...i started using it, see the B.R. and P-scrog logs for results.
and i did do a b4 pic as u mentioned.

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Awesome, looking forward to seeing a before and after shot or two. I'll check the logs, but maybe this thread would be a good place to show the folk as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rock.Steady

ok, found the old cupgun.:D
you can prolly get the residual coating off the inside of the cup with a strong solvent, or get a cheapo replacement from a place like Harbor Freight.

want it?

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For me? Wow. As lovely, lovely, legs Lilly says in Blazing Saddles, vhat a nice guy. This one I thought about quit a bit and had trouble deciding. It eventually came down to another no thank you. After having a chance to try my new hand sprayer, I am really quite satisfied with it. From the poorly conducted initial test I thought it was just spraying in the outer edges of a cone shape (outward from the nozzle of course), but after testing it on a couple surfaces I saw that it does spray in the middle areas of the cone as well. Note quite as well as I'd like, but not bad really. So for spraying plants, until I get like half a room to spray, I'll have to pass.

Now I also thought about saying yes just due to the fact that I have been putting off spraying some cabinets. They've just been sitting there in the family room we use more as a storage area, waiting for me to lacquer the parts and assemble and install them. About 1 1/2 yr. ago I bought a high end Wagner personal sprayer (some sonic deal) and have not even taken it out of the box yet. I don't even know if it works yet, so I was thinking of saying yes to your offer just so I could have a back up sprayer (got 2 compressors). To be honest, I thought it would probably end up sitting around here for a decade or so, since I'll probably never get to build my hot rod anyway. I would hate to see such a nice gesture go to waste, if indeed you planned on giving it to me. Now that I think about it you never said if you wanted anything for it, but either way I would like to see it go to a nice family that would take good care of it.

Thanks again.

PS, I feel extremely sorry for those of you who have not yet seen Blazing Saddles. Nowhere in the movie do saddles blaze up, but it is in my top 5 movies of all time. One of the funniest damn movies I've ever seen. There's even some MJ use for people like us. I don't know about you guys, but when I see someone tokin in a movie, for some reason I just have to do it as well.

Wait.....you two are SERIOUSLY talking about sprayguns for your plants......omg. :eek:

I'm going to get to the bottom of this.....