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It's not really happening; they are all liars
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TEHRAN, Iran â?? Millions of Iranians attended nationwide rallies Friday in support of the Palestinians, while the country's hard-line President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Israel's continued existence was an "insult to human dignity."
"The creation, continued existence and unlimited (Western) support for this regime is an insult to human dignity," Ahmadinejad said. "The occupation of Palestine is not limited to one land. The Zionist issue is now a global issue."
Ahmadinejad's remarks came as millions of Iranians held rallies across Iran to protest Israel's continued hold on Jerusalem, the city where Muslims believe Islam's Prophet Muhammad began his journey to heaven.
The demonstrations for "Al-Quds Day" â?? Al-Quds is the Arabic name for Jerusalem â?? also spilled over into anti-American protests because of U.S. support for Israel.
In the capital Tehran, hundreds of thousands of people poured into the streets as they chanted "Death to America" and "Death to Israel." Some protesters also burned American and Israeli flags.
State television reported similar large rallies in all other provincial capitals and smaller towns across Iran.
RelatedPhoto Essays
Al-Quds Day Iran does not recognize Israel and regards Palestine as comprising the Jewish state as well as the West Bank and Gaza.
Ahmadinejad is known for his Israel-lashing comments who has called for Israel to be "wiped off the map." He has also called the Nazi Holocaust a "myth" used as a pretext for carving out a Jewish state in the heart of the Muslim world after the World War II.
The Iranian president once again said Palestinians should not pay any price because Europeans committed crimes against Jews in World War II. He said they could give a part of their own land in Europe or Alaska so that the Jews can establish their country.
"I ask European governments supporting Zionists and the American people that will you allow occupation of part of your land under a pretext and then talk about a two-state solution?," Ahmadinejad said after the rallies.
Ahmadinejad said a "free referendum" was the solution to the Palestinian issue, saying Jews, Muslims and Christians as well as five million Palestinian refugees should take part in a vote to determine their own fate.
Ayatollah Mahould Hashemi Shahroudi, Iran's judiciary chief, said Friday's rallies was "a good start for the destruction of the Zionist regime."
Parliamentary speaker Gholam Ali Haddad Adel said the Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands was a "blatant oppression" and warned that the relationship between the Islamic world and the West won't improve as long as Palestinians are not allowed to determine their fate in a referendum.
Since the Islamic revolution in 1979, Iran has observed the last Friday of the Islamic holy month of Ramadan as "Al-Quds Day," as a way of expressing support to the Palestinians and emphasizing the importance of Jerusalem to Muslims.
Jerusalem is the third holiest city in Islam after the Saudi Arabian cities of Mecca and Medina.
In the Syrian capital of Damascus, more than 3,000 people carrying flags of the Palestinians, Syria and Lebanon's militant Hezbollah group marched Friday through the city's Yarmouk refugee camp to mark the day.
"Palestine is ours, from the sea to the river," read a banner referring to the Jordan river and the Mediterranean where British-mandate Palestinian's border used to be before Israel's creation in 1948. "Defending Palestine is a national and religious duty," read another.
The demonstration was organized by the Iranian embassy in Damascus and the Damascus-based radical Palestinian groups to protest Israel's capture of East Jerusalem during the 1967 Mideast war.
Maher Taher, the representative of the radical Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine in Damascus, said: "Jerusalem Day is to reassert our solidarity with the Palestinian people
FOXNews.com - Millions of Iranians Attend Anti-Israel Rallies Called 'Al Quds Day' - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News
sPage=fnc.world/iran
Yep, their just peaceable Muslims, their not building a nuclear bomb, they don't want to hurt anybody. Bush the IAEA the UN their all lier's.
Some of you just crack me up.:D
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It's not really happening; they are all liars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozarks
Um, yeah... they are liars. lol. I'm sorry you don't quite understand that. Good day
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It's not really happening; they are all liars
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfqr
Um, yeah... they are liars. lol. I'm sorry you don't quite understand that. Good day
I understand that calling anyone you don't agree with liars just shows how weak your position is.
Why don't you just pretend it's not happening.:D
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It's not really happening; they are all liars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozarks
I understand that calling anyone you don't agree with liars just shows how weak your position is.
Why don't you just pretend it's not happening.:D
I don't need to pretend it's not happening, because I really doubt it is. Your article is from FOX News... I don't exactly call that credible. Maybe find something that isn't known for spitting propaganda. The only thing they are right about, and actually Ahmadinejad said this, that there has been an Israeli occupation in Palestine for decades.
Like I said, I don't need to pretend it's not happening, because I see no evidence that they are going around shouting "DEATH TO AMERICA!" blah blah blah. *cough* anti-Islam propaganda *cough*
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It's not really happening; they are all liars
If there's one news agency to give us unbiased facts strait out of the no-spin zone, it's FOX.
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It's not really happening; they are all liars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf_The_Grey
If there's one news agency to give us unbiased facts strait out of the no-spin zone, it's FOX.
:S2: No, I know you're joking. At least I hope you are, LOL
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It's not really happening; they are all liars
I love it, nothing to say but "FOX NEWS" is bad, unable to defend your position, you attack the messenger.
He didn't say those things because "FOX NEWS" reported it. Do you have any idea how foolish that sounds ?
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It's not really happening; they are all liars
Ahmadinejad is to the Iranians as Bush is to the Americans.
You may believe they are enemies, you may believe they work more closely than you could imagine.
As long as the media machine and political businessmen feed the American people lies on a consecutive basis, we definitely know very little, just the way they like it.
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It's not really happening; they are all liars
Israel has nukes already.
The U.S is the only country to have ever used nuclear weapons in combat.
Smacks of double standards methinks.
and Faux news -- don't make me laugh, NewsCorp is a sack of shit.
Here is the same thing in London:
2003
Quds Day 2003 / 1424 London
2004
Annual Al-Quds Day 30 October 2005 London, UK
Depends how you look at it to be honest - Palenstine is illegally occupied (even under international law) and i'm sure if that happened in the U.S then you would be as pissed off about it as they are.
But go ahead and listen to your own media and ignore the rest of the world...
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It's not really happening; they are all liars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta9 UK
So when you read it in your countries news web site it's true, but if Fox News reports it, it's a lie.
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Depends how you look at it to be honest - Palestine is illegally occupied (even under international law) and i'm sure if that happened in the U.S then you would be as pissed off about it as they are.
There is no Palestine (yet), Israel was created by the UN, even the Palestinians call the Gaza strip & the West Bank, the Gaza Strip and the West Bank
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It's not really happening; they are all liars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Innominate
Ahmadinejad is to the Iranians as Bush is to the Americans.
You may believe they are enemies, you may believe they work more closely than you could imagine.
As long as the media machine and political businessmen feed the American people lies on a consecutive basis, we definitely know very little, just the way they like it.
My exact point! I just don't see how there can really be much of a debate on this... it's not like any of us have any of the intelligence reports showing that they restarted their nuclear weapons program. So what do we know? That's my whole point. No proof is shown to us... so right now the obvious answer is "show me proof and i'll believe it." I don't think a FOX News propaganda report can be proof.
But whatever floats your boat, Ozarks. I guess you can allow yourself to be swayed by propaganda, rather than allowing yourself to come up with your own informed decision. My informed decision is that FOX News has been spitting lies for a long, long time. Do you happen to remember the lies that everyone believed which happened to justify the current war in Iraq? I'm sure you know they were lies, right? It seems like it's almost an exact replica for Iran. Until it's proven that it's not a lie, I remain very skeptical that Iran restarted their nuclear weapons program so that they can nuke us and kill everyone in America, because they hate our "freedom" (oh wait, we're not that free anyway).
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It's not really happening; they are all liars
Oh, and not to mention that even if they did restart their program, made the nukes, and attempted to nuke us, that our nuclear weapons defense systems would certainly blow the nuke up in the air long before it had a chance to hit the ground. But I guess nobody really thinks about that. You really think NORAD wouldn't notice this, and be able to stop it?
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It's not really happening; they are all liars
Ok so did he SERIOUSLY say that the Holocaust was a myth?
How the fuck does someone like that get to be president man :wtf:
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It's not really happening; they are all liars
Quote:
Originally Posted by L Rag
Ok so did he SERIOUSLY say that the Holocaust was a myth?
How the fuck does someone like that get to be president man :wtf:
Yeah, he has said that before. He's not the only person who says that the holocaust was not real, or that it was blown out of proportion. I think what he's trying to say is that the holocaust was blown out of proportion and/or a lie to make people sympathetic towards Israel and the Jews in general. But that is beyond the point of this thread...
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It's not really happening; they are all liars
this thread completely reaffirmed my view that there alot of americans who have no idea of what happens in the world.
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It's not really happening; they are all liars
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfqr
But whatever floats your boat, Ozarks. I guess you can allow yourself to be swayed by propaganda, rather than allowing yourself to come up with your own informed decision. My informed decision is that FOX News has been spitting lies for a long, long time.
You form opinions by listing to all sides, instead of rejecting anything that doesn't fit your pre-conceived conclusions, obviously you're not there.
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Do you happen to remember the lies that everyone believed which happened to justify the current war in Iraq? I'm sure you know they were lies, right?
Yes, the intell was wrong, but nobody "lied", there is a difference.
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(oh wait, we're not that free anyway).
If you honestly believe that, than the truth is, you have never made a "informed decision" about anything.
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It's not really happening; they are all liars
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Originally Posted by snowblind
this thread completely reaffirmed my view that there alot of americans who have no idea of what happens in the world.
Life outside the "echo chamber" where you hear difference points of view, and people except you to response and have something intelligent to say when your view of the world is challenged, is pretty scary.......isn't it,.........BOO :D:D:D
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It's not really happening; they are all liars
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfqr
Do you happen to remember the lies that everyone believed which happened to justify the current war in Iraq? I'm sure you know they were lies, right? It seems like it's almost an exact replica for Iran. Until it's proven that it's not a lie, I remain very skeptical that Iran restarted their nuclear weapons program so that they can nuke us and kill everyone in America, because they hate our "freedom" (oh wait, we're not that free anyway).
From what I remember what was reported from the politicians to the press to the people, the government acknowledged "intelligence" that Hussein held WMD. U.N. inspectors were reportedly not permitted in by the government, and Hussein was given at least 6 months to comply with the U.N. inspection policy, the Holy Battle for Iraq began.
Since March 20, 2003 as I watched the 6:00pm news absolutely amazingly coincidentally provide the coverage of Iraq, beginning with the alert of the sirens, it was clear this war was going to be more than equally manipulative than our past fights of portrayed enemies.
This is why I refuse service to military.
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It's not really happening; they are all liars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozarks
You form opinions by listing to all sides, instead of rejecting anything that doesn't fit your pre-conceived conclusions, obviously you're not there.
I do listen to all sides, which is why I've come to the conclusions I have. Until there is proof of it, Ozarks, I see no reason to believe it. Can you explain why you believe such a thing, even though there has been no proof of it shown to you?
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Yes, the intell was wrong, but nobody "lied", there is a difference.
And yet they still went on and on and on with it. That's a good excuse to go and invade a country, and be responsible for the deaths of god knows who many people. I thought the CIA was supposed to be one the best intelligence agencies in the world? Perhaps since the intelligence was wrong, then maybe the Bush administration and others involved should be punished for negligence.
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If you honestly believe that, than the truth is, you have never made a "informed decision" about anything.
That's your opinion, but you don't even know me. Nobody is truly free anywhere. If we were, we wouldn't be persecuted for smoking pot. Are we still free, Ozarks?
And since the intelligence that justified the invasion of Iraq was wrong, what makes you think the intelligence regarding Iran isn't?
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It's not really happening; they are all liars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozarks
You form opinions by listing to all sides, instead of rejecting anything that doesn't fit your pre-conceived conclusions, obviously you're not there.
Yes, the intell was wrong, but nobody "lied", there is a difference.
If you honestly believe that, than the truth is, you have never made a "informed decision" about anything.
The intel was wrong? Hah.
You probally heard that on the TV too.
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It's not really happening; they are all liars
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfqr
I thought the CIA was supposed to be one the best intelligence agencies in the world?
Where did you hear that ?
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Perhaps since the intelligence was wrong, then maybe the Bush administration and others involved should be punished for negligence.
Bush didn't create the CIA, American Intell was there already, everytime someone gives bad advice the person receiving it should be "punished":wtf:
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That's your opinion, but you don't even know me. Nobody is truly free anywhere. If we were, we wouldn't be persecuted for smoking pot. Are we still free, Ozarks?
Yes, you are free, if you want to smoke pot than move to a state with those laws. You don't need any papers or permission from the Government, it called voting with your feet, free Americans do it every day. Of course you have stop blaming other people for your lack off freedom, and take responsibility for your own life.
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And since the intelligence that justified the invasion of Iraq was wrong, what makes you think the intelligence regarding Iran isn't?
I don't, but unlike you, I don't believe that 10% of it, the part you want to hear (IE Iran temporally suspended their bomb assembly program) and than disbelieve the other 90%, they are still enriching uranium, still building underground faculties and are making a daily effort to hide what they are doing, "peaceful" countries don't do that.
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It's not really happening; they are all liars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozarks
Bush didn't create the CIA, American Intell was there already, everytime someone gives bad advice the person receiving it should be "punished":wtf:
Maybe, when it's at this caliber, they should have looked into it much better. Perhaps they shouldn't always just take their word for it right off the bat? Plus, I am pretty sure that the Bush administration knew it was bad intelligence anyway.
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Yes, you are free, if you want to smoke pot than move to a state with those laws. You don't need any papers or permission from the Government, it called voting with your feet, free Americans do it every day. Of course you have stop blaming other people for your lack off freedom, and take responsibility for your own life.
Oh, of course you are in essence free. You can do whatever you want, but that doesn't mean that society or the law won't intervene and haul you off to jail/prison. That isn't free if you ask me. As an example, that's like saying in an oppressive dictatorship that has no free speech that you can in essence speak freely, so you're free. The truth is, if you are caught, you would be punished. That is not what freedom is.
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I don't, but unlike you, I don't believe that 10% of it, the part you want to hear (IE Iran temporally suspended their bomb assembly program) and than disbelieve the other 90%, they are still enriching uranium, still building underground faculties and are making a daily effort to hide what they are doing, "peaceful" countries don't do that.
Maybe it's not true that their nuclear weapons program was disabled in 2003 (or 2004, whatever they said). You don't believe it, that's ok. I am not saying it is for sure correct in everything it says. However, since you do have the ability to be logical, then it's pretty safe to say that what you say about Iran could very well be false also. Tell me, though... what makes you think they aren't lying? Why do I think they're lying, or have bad intelligence? Well, look at the history of the Bush administration. My point is, you're knocking down the Al Jazeera report on it and don't believe it, yet you believe the garbage coming from FOX News? Isn't that just a bit weird? I think it is. I'm sure they both spit propaganda like Jeru the Damaja spits mad rhymes, but you as well are choosing to believe what you want to believe. Isn't it a bit hypocritical for you to criticize me about believing what I want to believe, when you are doing the same? FOX News is not a credible source for news... there are many, many people here that can back me up on this.
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It's not really happening; they are all liars
The truth of the matter as I see it is that anyone who believes the war in Iraq is valid at this point in time with all the facts that are available, many posted on this forum, will not be convinced otherwise no matter what proof is presented. For those who believe in this " war" I say sign up for combat and fight for your beliefs. Personal attacks on one another on this forum is counter-productive and only serves to entrench one in his/her own beliefs. As for Iran it is one thing to build a functioning nuke it is an entirely different thing to deploy it. It doesn't help that the US installed a brutal dictator in Iran(ie: the shaw) nor does it help that we load up the Israelies with state of the art weapons(including nukes) aircraft etc. and sanction what ever they do without considering the other side. And to our British friend Snowblind, it didn't help matters that after WWI your generals re-drew the maps of the middle east to suit the British Empire, I won't go into Bush's poodle.
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It's not really happening; they are all liars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozarks
Im with you Ozark. They start with a hate for america and capitalism and it isnt far from believing Aquavelva jad over your own country.
Most of the Lefties on here, could just go to the friday Prayers in theran and fit right in....... same Rhetoric as those America haters
Keep up the fight O.... i dont know how you do it
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It's not really happening; they are all liars
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfqr
Maybe, when it's at this caliber, they should have looked into it much better. Perhaps they shouldn't always just take their word for it right off the bat?
Bush believed the intell in 02, went into Iraq looking for WMD, when the stockpiles didn't appear "he" was a "lier, stupid" etc.
He questions the intell in 07 and the SAME people are accusing him of the SAME thing, think about that.
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I am pretty sure that the Bush administration knew it was bad intelligence anyway.
The old "cherry picking" line, can't prove it but still believe it, fair enough.
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Oh, of course you are in essence free. You can do whatever you want, but that doesn't mean that society or the law won't intervene and haul you off to jail/prison. That isn't free if you ask me. As an example, that's like saying in an oppressive dictatorship that has no free speech that you can in essence speak freely, so you're free. The truth is, if you are caught, you would be punished. That is not what freedom is.
I don't know what all that has to do with smoking pot, but I will say again ; you can move one of several states, smoke all pot you want and nobody will care. If you are smoking where it's illegal that's your choice, you have the freedom to do either one.
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Maybe it's not true that their nuclear weapons program was disabled in 2003 (or 2004, whatever they said). You don't believe it, that's ok. I am not saying it is for sure correct in everything it says. However, since you do have the ability to be logical, then it's pretty safe to say that what you say about Iran could very well be false also. Tell me, though... what makes you think they aren't lying? Why do I think they're lying, or have bad intelligence?
I don't "know" if they are lying, but the evidence suggests that they are hiding "parts" of their program. If they weren't looking to use their nuclear program for weapons, they would cooperate with the IAEA and follow the South Africa, Libya (and in the process North Korea) models.
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Well, look at the history of the Bush administration. My point is, you're knocking down the Al Jazeera report on it and don't believe it, yet you believe the garbage coming from FOX News?
Now who's "cherry picking"
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Isn't it a bit hypocritical for you to criticize me about believing what I want to believe,
I'm not criticizing you, I'm talking to you.:)
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FOX News is not a credible source for news... there are many, many people here that can back me up on this.
Translation,the "echo chamber' is on my side, c'mom, you're smarter than that.
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It's not really happening; they are all liars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozarks
Life outside the "echo chamber" where you hear difference points of view, and people except you to response and have something intelligent to say when your view of the world is challenged, is pretty scary.......isn't it,.........BOO :D:D:D
yeah its so scary im sitting at my computer shouting down alot of people because there opinon differs from mine and they are all based on intelligent reasoning, removed from the IDIOT BOX of television, FOX news and the american political propoganda machine.
It is infact SO SCARY im sitting in my house shitting myself, there is poo running down my leg. I have a box filled of water and theres emergency rations there too.
Wait....no....thats right im having some tea browsing the internet and getting ready to go out.
Im about as scared of your opinion as i am of spam and to be honest spam is probably more likely to kill me first.
But its ok, you don't belive your government lied to you to invade IRAQ.
WOW, just WOW.
Sorry so they found weapons of mass destruction, no, but they did find oil, which well there one in the same for you guys.
Kyoto agreement anyone ?
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It's not really happening; they are all liars
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowblind
But its ok, you don't belive your government lied to you to invade IRAQ.
I believe that American Intelligent along with British,France Italian,German,India,Pakistan, Israel, Egypt & about 10 other countries all believed that Iraq had WMD, they were wrong, of course "they lied" is easier/quicker to type.
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Sorry so they found weapons of mass destruction, no, but they did find oil, which well there one in the same for you guys.
I'm probably wasting my time but, for the record, Iraq doesn't export oil to any country except France, (which was not part of the coalition to liberate Iraq) Saddam signed contracts with France and the elected Iraq Government has chosen to honor those contracts.
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It's not really happening; they are all liars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozarks
I believe that American Intelligent along with British,France Italian,German,India,Pakistan, Israel, Egypt & about 10 other countries all believed that Iraq had WMD, they were wrong, of course "they lied" is easier/quicker to type.
Wow, those are a lot of intelligence agencies who got it wrong. Quite a pandora's box this is turning out to be. So we can't rely on our intelligence, Britain's, France's, Italy's, Germany's, India's, Pakistan's, Israel's, Egypt's, and about 10 ther country's intelligence... so who do we believe? Are you really so sure the Bush administration didn't conspire to deceive the American people to invade Iraq?
Quote:
I'm probably wasting my time but, for the record, Iraq doesn't export oil to any country except France, (which was not part of the coalition to liberate Iraq) Saddam signed contracts with France and the elected Iraq Government has chosen to honor those contracts.
Personally, I think this war in Iraq has more to do with religion than anything else.
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It's not really happening; they are all liars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozarks
Where did you hear that ?
Bush didn't create the CIA, American Intell was there already, everytime someone gives bad advice the person receiving it should be "punished":wtf:
Yes, you are free, if you want to smoke pot than move to a state with those laws. You don't need any papers or permission from the Government, it called voting with your feet, free Americans do it every day. Of course you have stop blaming other people for your lack off freedom, and take responsibility for your own life.
I don't, but unlike you, I don't believe that 10% of it, the part you want to hear (IE Iran temporally suspended their bomb assembly program) and than disbelieve the other 90%, they are still enriching uranium, still building underground faculties and are making a daily effort to hide what they are doing, "peaceful" countries don't do that.
Uh huh, and what right does America have to stop them doing their "unpeaceful" actions when America are doing it on a much larger scale..
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It's not really happening; they are all liars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozarks
I believe that American Intelligent along with British,France Italian,German,India,Pakistan, Israel, Egypt & about 10 other countries all believed that Iraq had WMD, they were wrong, of course "they lied" is easier/quicker to type.
I'm probably wasting my time but, for the record, Iraq doesn't export oil to any country except France, (which was not part of the coalition to liberate Iraq) Saddam signed contracts with France and the elected Iraq Government has chosen to honor those contracts.
no but its all part and partial, ocupation, domination and policing. its how you build an empire.
except empires dont last.
believe it if you like, believe it with your whole heart that your government are doing there best to look after YOU.
its ok, but like you said its SCARY when someone else has opinions different to yours. Like everyone else is showing.
You wont win this because as you have proven all information and 'intelligence' is based on nothing but bullcrap. lies upon lies upon lies.
which is why im not wasting my time watching cnn/fox news/bbc 24
theres no point. fear = control
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It's not really happening; they are all liars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozarks
I believe that American Intelligent along with British,France Italian,German,India,Pakistan, Israel, Egypt & about 10 other countries all believed that Iraq had WMD, they were wrong, of course "they lied" is easier/quicker to type.
Thats a hell of a lot of intelligence agencies that were completely wrong, huh?
I completely refuse to believe that THAT MANY intelligence agencies got it wrong. Where did they get their 'intelligence' of WMD anyway? To get something of THAT SCALE wrong, we must have complete idiots running the intelligence agencies around the world man
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It's not really happening; they are all liars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozarks
Bush believed the intell in 02, went into Iraq looking for WMD, when the stockpiles didn't appear "he" was a "lier, stupid" etc.
Yep, I think he was a liar. I don't think he was stupid, though. I think the Bush administration is good at deceiving people.
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He questions the intell in 07 and the SAME people are accusing him of the SAME thing, think about that.
The "same people" are accusing him of questioning the intel? That's a bit vague, so I'm not exactly sure what you're saying there.
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The old "cherry picking" line, can't prove it but still believe it, fair enough.
We all have our beliefs. Some things you have to feel things out, because there is no proof. I have no intention of proving it to you. In fact, I'm not exactly sure why I'm still discussing this with you. You do bring up good points, but I, as well as you, know that my main point lies in the area regarding you posting a FOX News article for the base of your argument--which I find to be kind of ridiculous.
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I don't know what all that has to do with smoking pot, but I will say again ; you can move one of several states, smoke all pot you want and nobody will care. If you are smoking where it's illegal that's your choice, you have the freedom to do either one.
Heh, like I said, it was an example as to why what you said was wrong. I could move to one of those states if I had the money, but unfortunately I do not. Also, we both know that one is not exempt from the federal law in those states. It's still not legal, my friend. It's not free. While the laws in california, alaska, and colorado, are rather lax, it's still in a gray area. Still not freedom! Also, I could bring up the issue of other drugs into the conversation, but that is not free to do here on these boards :).
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I don't "know" if they are lying, but the evidence suggests that they are hiding "parts" of their program.
Well, that's what you've seen... but you haven't seen the actual intelligence report straight from the CIA, have you? Once again, if 15 other nations messed up on the intelligence regarding Iraq, like you said, then how can you possibly say for sure that the intelligence in regard to Iran is not a mistake as well? I've asked a similar question, but you didn't answer it.
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If they weren't looking to use their nuclear program for weapons, they would cooperate with the IAEA and follow the South Africa, Libya (and in the process North Korea) models.
And what are those models?
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Now who's "cherry picking"
:stoned:
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I'm not criticizing you, I'm talking to you.:)
Fair enough (although you were criticizing me about how I decide to "disregard" things because it doesn't fit my own personal belief, which is at least slightly true for the both of us).
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Translation,the "echo chamber' is on my side, c'mom, you're smarter than that.
So if somebody can help corroborate my side of the story then it's an echo chamber, and not smart?
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It's not really happening; they are all liars
/\/\/\ i corrobate his story and im not in an echo chamber, im in a room.
however i would argue that fox news is the biggest echo chamer there is
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It's not really happening; they are all liars
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowblind
/\/\/\ i corrobate his story and im not in an echo chamber, im in a room.
however i would argue that fox news is the biggest echo chamer there is
Indeed it is, and a very manipulative one with half-truths and outright lies at that.
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It's not really happening; they are all liars
I mean, come on, FOX News is one of the news agencies that still try to spit out Reefer Madness-esque propaganda towards cannabis. So I guess we must be wrong in thinking that cannabis is not a bad drug, too.
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It's not really happening; they are all liars
The only bottom line is everything you see on television is there to alter your mind. If you want to learn real information, do actual research, hear opinions, hold the words of the politicians to their throats, because their outrageous lies are an assault to our credibility as a people's country.
It is foolish for you poor souls to attack one another, oblivious to who has truly succeeded from your activity.
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It's not really happening; they are all liars
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Originally Posted by snowblind
no but its all part and partial, ocupation, domination and policing. its how you build an empire.
except empires dont last.
If you believe France is building an "empire", OK I believe Iraq is building a free country.
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its ok, but like you said its SCARY when someone else has opinions different to yours. Like everyone else is showing.
Who is everyone ?:D
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You wont win this because as you have proven all information and 'intelligence' is based on nothing but bullcrap. lies upon lies upon lies.
The good guys are winning every day, in Iraq & Afghanistan your own country is helping, and doing some great things.
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Originally Posted by mfqr
The "same people" are accusing him of questioning the intel? That's a bit vague, so I'm not exactly sure what you're saying there.
It seems that only Bush has learned from his mistakes.
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In fact, I'm not exactly sure why I'm still discussing this with you.
I hope you enjoy talking with other people. and hearing what their world view is.
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You do bring up good points,
Thank you, so do you.
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but I, as well as you, know that my main point lies in the area regarding you posting a FOX News article for the base of your argument--which I find to be kind of ridiculous.
On that we disagree, I don't reject (or accept) anything based on who the messenger is.
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Heh, like I said, it was an example as to why what you said was wrong. I could move to one of those states if I had the money, but unfortunately I do not. Also, we both know that one is not exempt from the federal law in those states. It's still not legal, my friend. It's not free. While the laws in california, alaska, and colorado, are rather lax, it's still in a gray area. Still not freedom! Also, I could bring up the issue of other drugs into the conversation, but that is not free to do here on these boards :).
I'll skip this for now.
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Well, that's what you've seen... but you haven't seen the actual intelligence report straight from the CIA, have you? Once again, if 15 other nations messed up on the intelligence regarding Iraq, like you said, then how can you possibly say for sure that the intelligence in regard to Iran is not a mistake as well? I've asked a similar question, but you didn't answer it.
I don't know,
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And what are those models?
The military uses of South Africa, Libya (and North Korea) nuclear programs were/are dismantled under IAEI (UN) supervision, with the inspectors given "full access".
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Fair enough (although you were criticizing me about how I decide to "disregard" things because it doesn't fit my own personal belief,
which is at least slightly true for the both of us).
I saw that as an observation, not criticism,
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which is at least slightly true for the both of us).
yes we are guilty of it sometimes, it's a bad habit.
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So if somebody can help corroborate my side of the story then it's an echo chamber,
The people who always agree with you, aren't really going to help you learn anything, in the long run.
It's not about intelligence.
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It's not really happening; they are all liars
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It seems that only Bush has learned from his mistakes.
I don't know about that. I don't think he considers what he's done as mistakes. But that's just speculation on my part.
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I hope you enjoy talking with other people. and hearing what their world view is.
Oh, indeed, I do. I just thought that it was starting to become a bit pointless, as neither of us are going to persuade eachother of our beliefs :).
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Thank you, so do you.
Thanks!
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On that we disagree, I don't reject (or accept) anything based on who the messenger is.
Even if the messenger is notorious for providing misleading information? I read FOX News and watch it occasionally, but I only take what they say with a grain of salt. They are not credible, and therefore that is my reasoning for this.
Neither does anyone else, but I have my bets placed on the idea that it was used to deceive the American public into supporting the war(s).
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The military uses of South Africa, Libya (and North Korea) nuclear programs were/are dismantled under IAEI (UN) supervision, with the inspectors given "full access".
Why doesn't the US follow this model, and dismantle their nukes as well?
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I saw that as an observation, not criticism,
Well, ok, I guess it is an observation. You're right.
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The people who always agree with you, aren't really going to help you learn anything, in the long run.
Now that is what I do agree with you on. You're very right there. Like I said, I do listen to opposing views, and I'm doing it here, am I not? I have conversations like this all the time.
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It's not about intelligence.
Then why did you tell me that I was "smarter than that"?
Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I think we've both exhausted our arguments--I know I have. If you haven't, then I guess you win :).
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It's not really happening; they are all liars
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Originally Posted by Ozarks
Yep, their just peaceable Muslims, their not building a nuclear bomb, they don't want to hurt anybody. Bush the IAEA the UN their all lier's.
Some of you just crack me up.:D
I agree, I mean thank God we have offered over 3000 heroic troops to eliminate all those weapons of mass destruction Hussein had!! We are a much safer country now Saddam is dead, half of our military is over seas, few are watching our borders, and we are giving our grandchildren a bankrupt economy.
Screw what the founding fathers said about entangling alliances, what the fuck did they know about anything?
:rolleyes:
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It's not really happening; they are all liars
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Originally Posted by Nailhead
I agree, I mean thank God we have offered over 3000 heroic troops to eliminate all those weapons of mass destruction Hussein had!! We are a much safer country now Saddam is dead, half of our military is over seas, few are watching our borders, and we are giving our grandchildren a bankrupt economy.
Screw what the founding fathers said about entangling alliances, what the fuck did they know about anything?
:rolleyes:
Screw democracy, too. Hopefully someday that when you speak out against the Bush administration, you'll be locked up in 5x5 cell for 3 years before you can even call your family. And not only that, but I hope to God one day we'll have a police state here in America... I mean, we need to do it for protection, it's obvious. Giving up freedom for a short period of time so that we can be safe from these terrorists is a necessity, and it's a requirement here in America. At least until we kill every single terrorist there is in the world, and make sure we kill anyone who has the potential of having a baby that will grow up to be a terrorist. And don't forget, we need to get rid of everyone who even thinks about it. Soon terrorists will be spreading their propaganda through America, and converting freedom loving Americans to liberty hating terrorists... their thought crimes will not be tolerated, and will be rid of by any means necessary. You're either with us or against us. The terrorists are against us, and they will be locked up in extrajudicial prisons. Torture is now okay, because, well, they are terrorists. Every single one that we place under arrest and put into the extrajudicial prison Guantanamo Bay aided in killing 3,000 people on 9/11, and therefore it is not bad to torture them. Afterall, they killed 3,000 people. Every single one of them. Soon, all terrorist propaganda, such as certain books, etc, must be destroyed. Anyone carrying these books after their destruction is an enemy combatant, and could suicide bomb you or your family at a moment's notice by the order of the terrorist headmaster himself, Osama Bin Laden. If you see someone carrying a book that is on the list for incineration, it is your duty to help save this infestation in America, by reporting it to your local Blackwater agents. We will not stand for tyranny here in America. This is America, land of the free; it is not "Land of the Terrorists."
"And by the way, American people... thank you for allowing me to have ultimate dictatorial powers. Not that I'm using them like a dictator, of course. This is America, afterall." - George W. Bush, soon
