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Does anyone know, if I am getting a pre-employment UA, will they test the validity of my sample in regards to ph, creatine, etc? I know if someone is on probation generally speaking their sample is held under a microscope, but does anyone know if they will do an adulterant test for a pre-employment sample?
Thanks!
A standard UA will be checked for basic adulterants.
If you can sub use that if not read the dillution sticky
what do they check to make sure the urine is valid again? i know creatine and color but what is ph?
ph tests to see if a sample is too acidic or too basic. A highly diluted sample will be outside of the acceptable range.
Killerweed, in your opinion, if I take no B-12 before my test, and my pee has some natural yellow in it, will this generally be an acceptable sample, meaning not too dilute. I have been doing some experimenting today with dilution, and I am trying to get this down to a science.
When people fail for being too dilute, can we assume their pee is completely clear (taking into account they haven't taken any B-12)?
Under DHHS regulations, abnormal pH readings indicate adulteration, not dilution. DHHS dictates that low creatinine and specific gravity readings indicate dilution.Quote:
Originally Posted by killercam
From what I've read on here, if your going to a lab, the color isn't *that* important. It seems to be more important with the home tests or PO tests. Not saying you shouldn't do it, but from what I've read all it does is change the color. In most lab tests, it will still get checked for creatinine clearance and specific gravity regardless. (So your urine could be clear as long as those levels are right and its a pass, or your vitamin yellow and your creatineine and sg is off causing a fail/dilute.) I'm pretty sure i have that right, I'm quoting off FBR's many posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by killercam
I guess that answers your question is that you can't assume its diluted on color alone because it could still have the proper specific gravity and creatinine clearance. That can only be proven with a labtest. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I'm correct on that.
^^^
Yes TP82007, that's correct. Most lab tests use specific gravity, creatinine clearance, and pH to check for validity. The first 2 are for dilution and pH for adulterants or old urine that might have been substituted. It can be clear as bottled water and still pass these tests. Color is only important as long as it isn't black or purple or red, etc. If you are getting an instant test from a PO and diluting, it is wise in this case to add the vitamin B-2 to your process.
I'm not looking to completely dilute my sample because I am 99% sure I can pass the test straight up. Does anyone have any suggestions in regards to how much I should drink before the test, to make sure I am giving them a valid sample, but a sample that isn't highly concentrated?
Yesterday I drank 64oz of a water gatorade mixture, and on my 5th piss, I did an adulterant test. The test indicated everything was fine, however, my creatine levels were very close to being adnormal and might have even been considered unacceptable in a lab.
Any suggestions on diluting a little but still giving a good sample? Thanks.
Don't drink more than about 48 ounces of liquid preferably gatorade 2 or 3 hours before the test.I usually drink cranberry juice and green tea.
I know on my UA's the urine is pretty pale yellow hardly decernable sometimes but the drug tech has never said anything. I know there's a way to get your creatnine levels up with red meat but you have to do it a couple days before the test for it to have an effect.I eat red meat all the time so I,ve never bothered with it. Also I believe you can get creatnine tabs from health food stores.
What test was that that gave you creatinine levels? Also how did you do an adulterant test? A pool pH kit?Quote:
Originally Posted by killercam
I just didn't think this was possible without the really expensive equipment that most people don't have lying around. Maybe I've missed something though.
In regards to testing for the creatine, you can buy adulterant strips which have ph, creatine, and a few other tests on the strip as well. Basically, you dip the strip in the urine, and the 5 or 6 small squares on the strip will all turn a different color. They provide you with a chart which indicates what each color means, and this is how you can see if your creatine levels, and ph levels are normal or abnormal.
Suppose I drink 48oz of gatorade before the test. Should I drink all this at once, or should I stretch my fluid consumption out? Do I want to stay away from coffee? Will drinking 48oz of water give me abnormal creatine levels?
Thanks for the advice, much appreciated.
That's really interesting. I never knew those existed. where do you get them? pH makes sense (after I wrote this I thought of high school science and Litmus paper).Quote:
Originally Posted by killercam
Quote:
Originally Posted by killercam
I think the sticky says to drink it fairly quick. However injesting 48 oz of fluid all at once could be somewhat difficult. I don't think it means *chug*. IME, I drank about 48oz over a 30-45 minute period (that's just the fastest I could do it). After I finished 1.5 bottles of gatorade I started having to go. But would replace those fluids with drinking more gatorade. All in all, probably about 2.5 20oz bottles.
The water has to possiblity of giving off levels which would cause a dilute result, that's why they recommend sports drinks. While gatorade won't do anything for creatinine clearence, it will help specific gravity because of the sodium content. The only thing you can do about creatinine clearence is a) take creatine tabs 2-3 days before (or longer, but follow directions). Or increasing your red meat intake (or fish too I hear).
The creatinine test strips can be found by doing a search for drug adulteration test kits on google.com. Prices vary depending on the vendor, but they are dirt cheap overall.
TIP: When I use the strips, particularly when I test premixed synthetic urines such as the Quick Fix, I prefer not to submerge the strip in the sample. For starters, too much care must be taken when you withdraw the strip from the sample to take a reading. When the test strip is withdrawn vertically, you stand the great chance of cross-contaminating the other panels when the colors of the reagent pads "bleed off" and run down to the neighboring reagent
pad(s), making for erroneous readings. Therefore, the test strip would have to be withdrawn from the sample as horizontally as possible without spilling any of the sample. A virtually impossible feat.
Second, by dipping the test strip into the QF, the chances of reagent contamination of the QF solution itself are higher than you think. Remember, youre planning to use the QF once it passes your validity checks, as opposed to a real human sample that eventually gets discarded by the lab once the validity and actual drug checks are completed.
Perhaps to overcome all of these headaches, I instead use a dropper to withdraw the sample from the container (like the labs do) and, with the test strip laying flat on a paper towel, I make drops on each reagent pad (panel). When doing this, make the drops thick enough to create a bead on the pad. Then, after a minute, drain off the excess by tipping the test strip on its side, before getting a reading. Again, the idea is to prevent reagent pad cross-contamination, as Ive described earlier.
Drinking any fluid helps its just some are better than others.Any diuretics like coffee or good cause they make you pee. If you drink 40 -48 ounces of fluid the morning of the test you shouldn't get a negetive dillute. Dillution just means you're trying to get the total thc content in your urine below the 50ng limit by increasing the total amount of fluid that the thc is mixed with. You have the same amount of thc in your urine its just being mixed with 40 ounces of fluid verses maybe 5 ounce of fluid normally.
Thanks guys.......so if I drink 50oz of a gatorade/water mixture 2 hours before the test, will my sample be too diluted? I am just trying to get an idea as to what is "over-doing it" as far as hydration goes.
The drug techs authorize 40 ounces but 50 would probably bee fine as long as you haven't been drinking tons of fluid the pass few days.
Thanks. Does anyone know if abnormal creatine levels indicate dilution or sample adulteration? I have heard the latter.
I think the abnormal creatine levels indicate dilution not adulteration. I'm sure someone with more knowledge could verify.
Below is the criteria established by the US Dept of Health & Human Services.......
Creatinine is checked in conjunction with specific gravity to determine
- Diluted sample. A diluted sample is ruled when the creatinine is between 2 - 20 mg/DL, and the specific gravity is between 1.0010 - 1.0030 on a single aliquot.
- Substituted sample . A sample is ruled substituted if the creatinine level is between 0 - 2 mg/DL, and the specific gravity is less than or equal to 1.0010, or greater than or equal to
1.0200 on both the initial and confirmatory creatinine tests (i.e., the same colorimetric test may be used to test both aliquots), and on both the initial and confirmatory specific gravity tests (i.e., a refractometer is used to test both aliquots) on two separate aliquots.
An adulterated sample is determined when
- The pH is less than 3 or greater than or equal to 11 using either a pH meter or a colorimetric pH test for the initial test on the first aliquot and a pH meter for the confirmatory test on the second aliquot;
- The nitrite concentration is greater than or equal to 500 mcg/mL using either a nitrite colorimetric test or a general oxidant colorimetric test for the initial test on the first aliquot, and a different confirmatory test (e.g., multi-wavelength spectrophotometry, ion chromatography, capillary electrophoresis) on the second aliquot;
- The presence of chromium (VI) is verified using either a general oxidant colorimetric test (with a greater than or equal to 50 mcg/mL chromium (VI)-equivalent cutoff) or a chromium (VI) colorimetric test (chromium (VI) concentration greater than or equal to 50 mcg/mL) for the initial test on the first aliquot, and a different confirmatory test (e.g., multi-wavelength spectrophotometry, ion chromatography, atomic absorption spectrophotometry, capillary electrophoresis, inductively coupled plasma-mass spectrometry) with the chromium (VI) concentration greater than or equal to the LOD (Limit Of Detection) of the confirmatory test on the second aliquot;
- The presence of halogen (e.g., bleach, iodine, fluoride) is verified using either a general oxidant colorimetric test (with a greater than or equal to 200 mcg/mL nitrite equivalent cutoff or a greater than or equal to 50 mcg/mL chromium (VI)-equivalent
cutoff) or halogen colorimetric test (halogen concentration greater than or equal to the LOD) for the initial test on the first aliquot, and a different confirmatory test (e.g., multiwavelength
spectrophotometry, ion chromatography, inductively coupled plasma-mass spectrometry) with a specific halogen concentration greater than or equal to the LOD of the confirmatory test on the second aliquot;
- The presence of glutaraldehyde is verified using either an aldehyde test (aldehyde present) or the characteristic immunoassay response on one or more drug immunoassay tests for the initial test on the first aliquot, and GC/MS for the confirmatory test with the glutaraldehyde concentration greater than or equal to the LOD of the analysis on the second aliquot;
- The presence of pyridine (pyridinium chlorochromate) is verified using either a general oxidant colorimetric test (with a greater than or equal to 200 mcg/mL nitrite equivalent cutoff or a greater than or equal to 50 mcg/mL chromium (VI)-equivalent cutoff) or a chromium (VI) colorimetric test (chromium (VI) concentration greater than or equal to 50 mcg/mL) for the initial test on the first aliquot, and GC/MS for the confirmatory test with the pyridine concentration greater than or equal to the LOD of the analysis on the second aliquot;
- The presence of a surfactant is verified by using a surfactant colorimetric test with a greater than or equal to 100 mcg/mL dodecylbenzene sulfonate-equivalent cutoff for the initial test on the first aliquot, and a different confirmatory test (e.g., multi-wavelength spectrophotometry) with a greater than or equal to 100 mcg/mL dodecylbenzene sulfonate-equivalent cutoff on the second aliquot.
Hope this all helps a little
:smokin:
Thanks BT, That looks like great info to have.