Opie Yutts I need your help friend

"Ah, aeroponics. Wise choice. Not exactly for beginners, but it should be no problem if you have a couple smarts. Done correctly, this set up is one of the highest yielders.

Let me clarify what I meant about little water. In my opinion the best way to superfast growth and healthy plants is to supply the roots with as much oxygen as possible. This means that no matter what your setup, soil, soilless, hydro or whatever, you do not want your roots sitting in water. MJ is not a marsh or pond plant, nor is it a fish. It likes it's roots sitting in air. Of course like all living organisms, weed requires moisture as well as air, but it is much happier in an above-water existance. Like you and I, it likes to be dry and take drinks if it gets thirsty. (We'll discuss humidity some other time.)

Two really nice ways to keep your roots dry and still quench any thirst, is NFT, and RMT (also known as Aeroponics). Of course yours is not true aeroponics, since a sprinkler does not produce a mist, but itâ??s the same concept and should produce some damn fine results.

When you said begin tonight, I hope you meant to put them in a small amount of rockwool, sponge, vermiculite or something, that will later go into your net pots. (I recommend not using rockwool. Not for beginners.) That is unless your roots are 3 inches long, and able to reach completely to the bottom of your 3â?� net pots. Especially since you said the water will hit the bottom of the net pots. You canâ??t put them into your system until they will get wet when the drinking cycle comes on. One way around this is to completely soak the net pots with the sprayer 24/7, and that will keep the roots wet well enough, until they can be exposed in mid air, in some position that they will get hit with water during feeding/drinking time. Iâ??m talking Hydroton here, for rockwool decrease watering frequency dramatically. You can also get some capillary matting to lay your roots on, and have it extend clear to the bottom, and even have it taking up some of the bottom. It will wick moisture up to the roots, but this requires more pump on time.

When the roots are just emerging from the pots, you will want your on times to be more frequent, like 2 minutes on, 10 minutes off, repeat. Once they will get well splashed during the â??onâ?� cycle, you can start experimenting with your pump times. When there is a nice root mass, you can decrease the on time. You just start changing a little at a time, maybe once per day, and watch closely for any signs of thirst stress (wilting, droopy). You may find you need as little as 30 seconds on and 2 hours off or something. This depends on a bunch of things, humidity being a big one. Youâ??ll need to decide this yourself, but in my system itâ??s not real humid, usually around 36 or so. I would expect to end up with an on time of a minute, and an off time of 45-60 minutes. Of course you donâ??t have to worry too much about if you have too much on time. The off time is the tricky one; overdoing it could kill the plant if not watched carefully. If you have power failures you may want to consider figuring out some way to keep at least a couple inches of roots in water at all times. I had to build my own thing, but I have what you have, except instead of a sprayer for 3 plants, I have 2 misters for each plant, and a way to change water level so a little bit of roots are in nutes at all times. A lot of damn work to solve the friggen power outage problem. I also have a six inch air stone for each plant, and an air blowing power head in my main reservoir. A whole bunch of aeration, and it seems like once I put them in veg, boom! I cant beat them back with a stick. Iâ??m telling you people, oxygen in the roots is the key!

Oh yeah I forgot, not everyone can afford a cyclstat, which is a fancy name for â??$145 timerâ?�. The next best thing that I can recommend is a $20 digital timer from Intermac, I think. Theyâ??re available everywhere, and they get the job done quite well. You can have 14 on and 14 off times per day. You can even arrange stuff to happen on only certain days. I root my clones with one of these, using 45 off and 20 on, or something like that. Iâ??ve purchased about 7 of these over the past 6 years, and so far only one has failed, and I think that was just a case of too much juice for one little timer.

Hope that helps. My high is wearing off. Good luck and please send pictures."

Awesome stuff Opie..I have a few questions for you if you don't mind enlightening me..

1) Once the seeds are germed, which way do i put them in the rockwool..(part coming out of seed facing up or going towards bottom of pot?) I'm a total Noob as well..

2)Also should i put the germed seeds that are in Rockwool in the pots w/ rocks and have the sprinkler on them for 24 hours with light 24 hours as well? Until they start to grow, then slow the watering down to once an hour for 20 minutes or something like that? I'm trying to see how much water i need to be putting on them..the sprinkler will hit very close to the top of netpots..

3)Should i buy something to create bubbles in the bucket that runs 24 hours or something? all i have is a 5 gal bucket with a little powerhead with a sprinkler attached to water hte pots i have in the bucket lid..do i need bubbles from something else to create oxygen?? sorry very new to this and am trying to learn as much as possible as quickly as possible..i will try and post some pics of my setup this evening..trying to get the germed seeds in some rockwool ASAP so your help is greatly appreciated and much needed..Also i read soemthing about a mist? IS that better than a stream of water from a sprinkler head..i could probably change it out if you think it will benefit me..

4)I plan on getting a digital therm/hum reader and put it in the grow space..should i be worried about humidity in the bucket? Where the roots are or is it just for the actual plant and the closet?

5)also i have some basic nutrients that i received with the kit i purchased. 2 big bottles:
a) Base - 1.6 - 1.8 - 7.4
b) 2.8 - 0 - 0
What to do with these?
Also have PH up and a PH down bottle..It came w/ a PH test kit and i tested outdoor pool water, aquafiina bottled water, and tap water all yielding the same results..Bogus tester? or is the water that close? I didn't try to adjust however, didn't want to waste anymore...It was very high at 8.0. Any thoughts?

6) Lastly Lights/Ventilation - I'm not going to run HPS and MH yet, i don't have the space right now or funds for that matter but hopefully next go straight to 1000W HPS, MH, Digital ballast and so forth but for now i have two basic 10" polished aluminum reflector with 2, 26 watt CFLs per reflector..so thats a total of four 26 watt CFL's with 5500K each. (couldn't find 6500K unfortunately) Don't remember how many Lumens however. Doesn't say on the bulb and i threw out hte packages already..maybe 900? 9000? Sorry actually have no idea where it would be...Anyway is that sufficient for veg? maybe ad 2 more cfls? Let me know what you think..I guess i'll get back to you on the ventilation when i hear back from you..pics would probably be easier than explaining..Cant wait to get started just need a few things clarified..THanks so much OPIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry so long guys but i'll keep you updated with pics..

1) Once the seeds are germed, which way do i put them in the rockwool..(part coming out of seed facing up or going towards bottom of pot?) I'm a total Noob as well..
That part coming out of the seed is called the tap root, and needs to be aimed toward the bottom. No matter which way it is oriented it will probably grow toward the bottom, but not placing it properly will probably add a few days to how long the roots and/or stem take to pop out of the medium, and it could add stress, and could even make it end up not coming out at all. Whatever is left of the seed, probably just 2 pieces of a shell or less, is holding two little leaves and a stem, which of course will want to be heading upward.

2)Also should i put the germed seeds that are in Rockwool in the pots w/ rocks and have the sprinkler on them for 24 hours with light 24 hours as well? Until they start to grow, then slow the watering down to once an hour for 20 minutes or something like that? I'm trying to see how much water i need to be putting on them..the sprinkler will hit very close to the top of netpots..
What I was trying to say above, is that you begin by putting seeds or germinated seeds in dry rockwool (in your case), then you put them in a dry tray and flood them. Use as little solution as possible to get the RW soaked. If you don't have a propagation tray or something, you can use anything you have on hand that has side(s) that are at least 1/2" tall. Tupperware, cake pan, kitty litter box... You'll want roughly a 2-3 inch cube of RW, assuming your net pot is a 6 incher, adjust accordingly. If you bought a half bale or something, just tear off a good handful. Don't forget that RW needs to be soaked at least 24 hours, 48 is better, in water that has been PH'd to whatever PH you plan on using. I suggest 5.5 or 5.6. It is best if you can keep checking it in your actual system for a few days before transplanting, adjusting PH as it fluctuates, until it at least comes close to stablizing. I'm guessing most people don't do that, but either way, once it gets down to where itâ??s supposed to be, you can start using it. Oh yeah, you check it by mixing up some PH7 water and running it through the dry RW. Catch the first run-off and check it's PH. Soaking it also helps get out all the tiny chunks of volcanic rock or glass. (Once back in the day, I didn't know that you were supposed soak RW, and I had 2 damn tough seedlings survive out of 12.) Put a seed or germinated seed in a chunk of RW, then completely drench the chunk with PH'd water mixed with only a very small amount of B1 supplement, and put it in the tray. I recommend SuperThrive at 2 drops per gallon. Some people use up to a half teaspoon once the are growing good, but that's way overkill IMHO. Keep an eye out for wilt, and watch the rockwool chunks in the tray. Once they are almost dried out, or the seelings look like they might be getting thirsty, you can add 1/8 to 1/4 inch of the same solution to the bottom of the tray. When I say the same solution, if it is the actual solution you used a day or two or three ago, be sure to check the PH since it often rises throughout time. Again, watch the wilt and the RW, and repeat until roots start coming out of the RW. Hopefully at this time they are long enough to put the plants into the system and have the water reach the roots during pump on time. If not, keep them in the tray and keep all roots covered with several layers of black plastic, or anything that will for sure keep the light off the roots. If you want to try putting them into the pots as soon as they are germinated, I'll bet this would work, but it would be more of an experiment. It might even work to put just seeds in there. I would think that as long as the tap root or chunk of RW is in good contact with some capillary matting, and the matting reaches to the bottom of the pot and takes up a little bit of the bottom, and you are spraying 24/7, and the light is at least a foot back, that would keep the roots in as much moisture as they need, and ultimately work out fine. This would be much better for the plants if you could get it dialed in properly. Perhaps if anyone else reading this has tried it, they could chime in here. As far as light schedules, the only time that I use 24/7 is for rooting clones. For one reason, see here: http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-faqs/99457-why-should-i-turn-out-lights.html

3)Should i buy something to create bubbles in the bucket that runs 24 hours or something? all i have is a 5 gal bucket with a little powerhead with a sprinkler attached to water hte pots i have in the bucket lid..do i need bubbles from something else to create oxygen?? sorry very new to this and am trying to learn as much as possible as quickly as possible..i will try and post some pics of my setup this evening..trying to get the germed seeds in some rockwool ASAP so your help is greatly appreciated and much needed..Also i read soemthing about a mist? IS that better than a stream of water from a sprinkler head..i could probably change it out if you think it will benefit me..
As long as the sprayer is spraying fairly often, like every 10 minutes or something, you probably would be fine without additional aeration. However I highly discourage this. As I have said many times and will continue saying until the day I die, the key is oxygen to the roots, that is assuming you prefer fast-growing, huge, lush, healthy plants. It doesn't cost much to get a cheap ($8?) air pump, a yard or two of line and an air stone, and run it 24/7. A small air stone is pretty cheap. I said cheap, not inexpensive. I mean that it doesnâ??t cost much, and it falls apart or breaks after one use. If you get an air stone, try not to get the smallest one. I recommend air wands. You can clean them after each use, they last forever (or at least for the the 5 years it's been since I've switched), and some of them are flexible. Why should you do this? Well consider this basic mathematical formula: Taking into account the price of weed in your area at the time this was written, as well as your strain, humidity, and all other possible variables, for every 10 bubbles per plant that are bubbling 24 hours per day, you will see an additional yield of exactly $2.67 worth of weed. So you see, most aeration tactics pay for themselves within one or two harvests. This does not even take into consideration all the other benefits derived from aeration, such as less chance of algae. MJ roots beg for air, and reward you greatly if you oblige. And yes, a mist is better than a spray, and a fog is better than a mist. Water droplets in this case are measured in microns, and the smaller the droplet is, the better it is for your overall plant health because smaller water droplets mean bigger air â??dropletsâ?�. Remember â??theâ?� key? Now keep in mind that fogging is fairly new, but considered by many to be the best way to promote huge healthy roots, and in general plants. The smaller the droplet is, the more advanced the system is, and the more of your time it will take (sometimes dramatically), and the more problems it will cause. For example, the smaller the droplet of water you use, the more filters you must use, forcing you to use larger water pumps which forces you to hire an electrician to install a new breaker panel (EXAGGERATED FOR ILLUSTRATION PURPOSES). My advice is to leave your 360 degree spray head at this point, and see how things work out. Just have fun and soak up the knowledge on your first grow, and perhaps, if youâ??re dedicated to spending the time it takes to do things properly (like reading up on the basics especially, and the advanced stuff as time permits), you just might end up with some weed to smoke.

4)I plan on getting a digital therm/hum reader and put it in the grow space..should i be worried about humidity in the bucket? Where the roots are or is it just for the actual plant and the closet?
The humidity in your reservoir or bucket is not really a concern until you start getting more into the advanced stuff like fogging. Worry about, not necessarily your grow room humidity, but the humidity at the canopy of your plants. (Itâ??ll probably be close to the same anyway.)

5)also i have some basic nutrients that i received with the kit i purchased. 2 big bottles:
a) Base - 1.6 - 1.8 - 7.4
b) 2.8 - 0 - 0
What to do with these?
Also have PH up and a PH down bottle..It came w/ a PH test kit and i tested outdoor pool water, aquafiina bottled water, and tap water all yielding the same results..Bogus tester? or is the water that close? I didn't try to adjust however, didn't want to waste anymore...It was very high at 8.0. Any thoughts?
Thoughts? Sure, I've got lots of em... Man, that was great when that stripper put her... Oh sorry, you must mean thoughts about your question. Hydro systems should have a PH of about 5.5. If everything reads the same it either means that everything happens to be the same, or you are not doing it correctly (read the instructions thoroughly), or there is something wrong with the test kit. I highly recommend getting a PH pen for like $20. You will come around soon enough and see why it makes sense anyway, so why not just get it now. You will need to calibrate it before using it, so you can buy a small bottle of PH4 and PH7 calibration fluid, or if you ask real nice and flash a little chest, depending on the sexual orientation and gender of the clerk, they might just give your pen its first calibration for free. For the real fancy (expensive) ones you'll need a PH10 calibration fluid as well. Iâ??m not sure what your nutrients are. The first one is probably a nutrient for the veg stage, and the second one might be a supplement or additive. Youâ??ll need some flower nutrients too. For your first grow I highly recommend laying off the additives, except for a small amount of superthrive or other B1 supplement each feeding throughout the veg cycle only. This will help promote root growth and health. Everything starts getting more complicated the more things you add, and you greatly increase the chances of a first timer ending up with a case of KFP (Kentucky Fried Plants). Youâ??ll also need an EC or PPM meter when you start adding a bunch of stuff. Your veg nutes will probably work fine. I use (and highly recommend) Fox Farmâ??s Grow Big for vegging and Tiger Bloom for budding. Those are some of the less expensive nutrients on the market, but many people believe that they are some of the best. You could spend $60 or more on a quart of nutes, where as these are about $15 each. Perhaps if nobody here responds about your substance â??bâ?� above, you could call the store and ask for clarification.

6) Lastly Lights/Ventilation - I'm not going to run HPS and MH yet, i don't have the space right now or funds for that matter but hopefully next go straight to 1000W HPS, MH, Digital ballast and so forth but for now i have two basic 10" polished aluminum reflector with 2, 26 watt CFLs per reflector..so thats a total of four 26 watt CFL's with 5500K each. (couldn't find 6500K unfortunately) Don't remember how many Lumens however. Doesn't say on the bulb and i threw out hte packages already..maybe 900? 9000? Sorry actually have no idea where it would be...Anyway is that sufficient for veg? maybe ad 2 more cfls? Let me know what you think..I guess i'll get back to you on the ventilation when i hear back from you..pics would probably be easier than explaining..Cant wait to get started just need a few things clarified..
Let me start this one with something important before I forget; Be sure to keep fluoros back about 18 inches for the first week or so of a seedlings life. Then gradually move it closer until it is almost in the plants. I first read your question incorrectly and I was going to say that amount of lighting just barely squeaks into the â??OKâ?� category, but it would sustain life and even make the plants grow. Now I see you have 4 of those bulbs so it's not so bad. That should do pretty good, but I would like to replace all 4 with something a little bigger. They make 500 watt equivalent clf's now. Imagine 4 of those in there (?overkill?) If at all possible, no wait, no matter if I had to sell my children for scientific experimentation, I would pick up at least 2 CFLâ??s that equal 100 watts incandescent (36 watts each?), and replace 2 of those you have. More if you want even faster/bigger growth. Good job on the cool or cold color lights for vegging. 6500â??s are really hard to find. I would get the lights nearly right into the plants if possible, while watching closely for heat stress. One big regular fan blowing up at your cfl array, and one small oscillating fan gently rustling your plants should do the trick. Just watch temps carefully during the addition of any light. I have a light formula like the bubble formula above, but I donâ??t want to think right now. In general, more light = more weed, especially during flowering. Now you could get the same amount of weed if you have less light during veg than optimal, as long as you just keep vegging and vegging until you have a bunch of growth. You canâ??t do that during flowering however, because buds get done at a certain time whether you like it or not. Therefore the amount of light used during budding becomes the critical one to worry about. Make sure you have a bunch, the more the better. Make sure you use â??warmâ?� or â??extra-warmâ?� for blooming, but better yet look for the numbers 2200 or 2700K in descending order of preference. Unfortunately the numbers are not always on the package, but you can call the mfg. or look on their web site spec sheet, like this: http://www.feit.com/twist/twist.html. Please let me know if you find some 2200â??s or 5700â??s. Be sure to consider that for the absolute best/fastest/biggest growth, you should mix about 15% red wavelength light in with your vegging lights, and about 15% blue in with your budding lights.

THanks so much OPIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Your welcome and good luck.

PS. I am happy to help, but there are a bunch of people in this forum just as qualified to answer your questions as I am, and many even more so. By asking only one person to help in the title of your thread, you may be delaying or limiting the info you receive. I am not always hanging around here. Sometimes I go for weeks without signing on, and sometimes Iâ??m on several times each day for 2 months or something. If you want to catch my attention in a title, perhaps you could say something like â??Plants infested with buffalo, Opie? Anyone? Please help.â?� Anyway, just a suggestion.

whew!

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Originally Posted by Opie Yutts

Why should you do this? Well consider this basic mathematical formula: Taking into account the price of weed in your area at the time this was written, as well as your strain, humidity, and all other possible variables, for every 10 bubbles per plant that are bubbling 24 hours per day, you will see an additional yield of exactly $2.67 worth of weed.

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That's awesome.:thumbsup:

Yeah, thanks rhizome. I was kinda surprised at that one myself. What a testament to bubbles, eh?

Opie, You're the man, or woman.. lol Seriously though, thanks so much..I had actually already started the process cuz i was afraid you might not respond...but again thanks for taking the time to help me out..Sorry for not asking everybody but after reading multiple posts by you i immediatly thought this guy knows his aeration..

So........since i kinda started before reading all your responses i'll tell you what i did and you tell me how bad i messed up.. :)

I soaked the rockwool in some PH balanced water, only for 30 minutes tho...squeezed and resoaked a few times..(distilled water tested right at 6.0) put hte germed seeds in RW and put under some light in the system...Almost immediately one of hte four ladies came out to play..now a few days later and all four have leaves...2 look very strong and are about an inch tall and the other two haven't done much since showing there leaves..maybe light on the roots?? I konw i messed that part up but as of now 2 look alright as i said..i just put the hydroton grow rocks in the pots..a layer underneath the RW and filled the rest to the top...I'm using 3" pots for now..

1) About how long till i move them to bigger pots and the different system?

2) When should i go to 18/6 light schedule? I'm trying to get these answers from researching but to be honest sometimes the more i read the more confused i get..lol

I was planning on going to 18/6 light schedule maybe sometime in the next couple of days..That will be a week of 24/7..tell me what ya think...

-Like you said i'm pretty much experimenting as i'm sure my first grow won't be a HUGE success but at the same time am hoping for the best..Your replies are GREATLY APPRECIATED..I'll try and get some pics up for you guys...I'll also be buying an air stone sometime in the next few days, you know, for that key ingredient:cool:

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/c...7/DSC02036.jpg
http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/c...7/DSC02035.jpg
http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/c...7/DSC02034.jpg

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/c...7/DSC02040.jpg
http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/c...7/DSC02039.jpg

Opie, You're the man, or woman..
Man, or little boy in a mans body.

lol Seriously though, thanks so much..
Again, your welcome.

I soaked the rockwool in some PH balanced water, only for 30 minutes tho...squeezed and resoaked a few times..(distilled water tested right at 6.0) put hte germed seeds in RW and put under some light in the system...
That will probably be OK. (fingers crossed)

Almost immediately one of hte four ladies came out to play..now a few days later and all four have leaves...2 look very strong and are about an inch tall and the other two haven't done much since showing there leaves..maybe light on the roots??
It is normal for some to look like they are left behind for a few days at the beginning. They will most likely catch up to the others, or at least end up being a decent plant.

I konw i messed that part up but as of now 2 look alright as i said..i just put the hydroton grow rocks in the pots..a layer underneath the RW and filled the rest to the top...I'm using 3" pots for now..
Sounds fine.

1) About how long till i move them to bigger pots and the different system?
So I guess those photos are of your rooting system, then you have another system that you are going to put them in? That might be a good idea, since once you get all 4 spaces taken up with big plants, there is going to be a tangled root mass underneath, and the sprayer wonâ??t really be doing its job properly. I suspect they would do fine that way, and your roots would get plenty of moisture, but it will end up being more of a DWC system. As long as you have something to tie the plants to, or some way to support them, you don't really need to put them into bigger pots. You could though, and if you do, I would just set the whole 3" pot into a 6" pot. I would probably do this just as the roots start coming out of the 3" pots, or a couple days later. The bigger pot you use, the less you will need to support the plant as it grows, because in bigger pots the roots have a good hold and are able to support the plant. I recommend just starting in a 6" pot if at all possible. The less transplanting you do, the less you will stress the plant. Each time you stress the plant, it's growth rate usually slows down a little for a couple days while it recovers. It depends a great deal on what variety your plants are. Some are real hardy, and some don't want to be touched. There are lots of people that just keep the plant in a 3" net pot for the whole grow, and support the plant as needed.

2) When should i go to 18/6 light schedule? I'm trying to get these answers from researching but to be honest sometimes the more i read the more confused i get..lol
There is a lot of different answers to this one, but I firmly believe that plants grow better with a little rest at night. As soon as I take them out of the cloner and put them into my system I go to 18/6. Some people will say don't ever change from 24/0 to 18/6, but I strongly disagree. If you haven't read that link I posted about why plants need rest, be sure to do so. I have read a lot of stuff indicating that plants take in what they need during the day, and process that stuff at night.

I was planning on going to 18/6 light schedule maybe sometime in the next couple of days..That will be a week of 24/7..tell me what ya think...
I think that will be fine.

-Like you said i'm pretty much experimenting as i'm sure my first grow won't be a HUGE success.
You never know, it might be a huge success compared to what you are used to. If any of your plants grow and get some smokable buds, consider your first try a huge success. For your first grow itâ??s all about the knowledge you gain, figuring out how to remedy any problems that arise, enjoying your hobby, and as a bonus to all that you might even end up with some nice smokable buds.

I enjoyed the questions and responses. :)

Big ups to Opie Yutts and GrowMe,

Good luck!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Opie Yutts

[COLOR=darkred][B]2) When should i go to 18/6 light schedule? I'm trying to get these answers from researching but to be honest sometimes the more i read the more confused i get..lol
There is a lot of different answers to this one, but I firmly believe that plants grow better with a little rest at night. As soon as I take them out of the cloner and put them into my system I go to 18/6. Some people will say don't ever change from 24/0 to 18/6, but I strongly disagree. If you haven't read that link I posted about why plants need rest, be sure to do so. I have read a lot of stuff indicating that plants take in what they need during the day, and process that stuff at night.

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There was a rather lengthy discussion about light cycles a couple of months back. One point that a number of people seemed to agree on is that going from 24/7 to 18/6, the plant thinks the days are getting shorter so it wants to grow faster.

PC :smokin:

hmmm, sounds reasonable I guess.

Also, from the things that I have read there seems to be a general consensus that root development is slowed if plants have 24/0 lighting after the initial one or two weeks. So some people use 24/0 in there mother section so that they don't have to re-pot as often.

when Master breeders like 'Shantibaba' and 'Chimera' recommend anything besides 18/6 and 12/12, I'll switch ... lots going on in a plant during night cycles, too ... :jointsmile:

oh, Opie !! .. thanks for the +Rep, but what was your message 'only for hydro' ... ? ... didn't understand that ... :jointsmile:

Sweet, things are getting a little clearer here..Thanks so much Opie and everyone else..great message board!!!! Whenever you have a second a few more questions for ya..

I don't have another system set up yet, i planned on tackling that when it was time..I kind of just assumed that i had too..I didn't know i could veg and flower in this small of a system with successful results...Once time, i planned on going the storage bin/air stone route..read a lot about them and seems to be a decent DIY system thats not that hard to assemble..

So,

1) If I stay in the system with the 3" pots, should i take the sprinkler out and replace it with a couple of air stones? If so when, and would i have to spray the roots or leaves with water? Also if not then should i just make the sprinkler shorter so its not in the mess of roots??

2)When do i need to start supporting them? I do have a light breeze on them

3)And what the hell does DWC stand for..For some reason its the one i haven't been able to find..:wtf:

THanks for all the help Opie and others..

Opie

What are your PPMs when your seedling(s) reach say the 2nd to 3rd node.

Thats where my baby is right now. I just grow for my personal smoke and this is my second grow for the hizzdro. Right now I have an 18 gal res put about 10 gal of regular tap water. Net pot suspended from the hole I cut. Filled with hydroten

I use AN nutes 3pt I have some Cal mag and just ordered some HyOx. Anyway, my meter reflects 5.7 Ph and 600 PPM nutes mixed appropiately. It looks healthy and all seems to be going good. I used Big Bud for my flower on my first grow. Things turned out really better than I expected. I just went to 18/6 I agree with the rest theory. I am a little worked up regarding the water times. Basically, I have a timer that gives me 14 set times so on off on off etc counts as one of the 14 so I have it set up to a good 1.5 hrs drink first thing when the lights come on then I stagger it on off throughout the day every couple hrs with an on time of roughly 30 - 40 minutes. I give it one good last dose of about 1 hour then the lights go out about 30 minutes after. I have this looping 7 days a week Does this sound okay?

Also at what point do you know when to kick the PPMs up. I mean the plant cant talk, yes I know it talks through what you see but how do you just sense its wanting more vitamins. Is there a theory to that? I know good ole experience is the best answer but seriously, any thoughts regarding this (not strippers) hehe!

I use a 400 W interchangeable MH/HPS hovers about 3 feet up.

Your thoughts on all this is appreciated!

Thanks

Peace

Here is a photo of my soon to be bride
[attachment=o165754]

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Originally Posted by the image reaper

oh, Opie !! .. thanks for the +Rep, but what was your message 'only for hydro' ... ? ... didn't understand that ... :jointsmile:

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Well I guess I was thinking that if somebody does soil grows only, then he starts doing hydro as well, he should have a stronger reputation. Makes sense to me.

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Originally Posted by GrowMe

Sweet, things are getting a little clearer here..Thanks so much Opie and everyone else..great message board!!!! Whenever you have a second a few more questions for ya..

I don't have another system set up yet, i planned on tackling that when it was time..I kind of just assumed that i had too..I didn't know i could veg and flower in this small of a system with successful results...Once time, i planned on going the storage bin/air stone route..read a lot about them and seems to be a decent DIY system thats not that hard to assemble..

So,

1) If I stay in the system with the 3" pots, should i take the sprinkler out and replace it with a couple of air stones? If so when, and would i have to spray the roots or leaves with water? Also if not then should i just make the sprinkler shorter so its not in the mess of roots??

2)When do i need to start supporting them? I do have a light breeze on them

3)And what the hell does DWC stand for..For some reason its the one i haven't been able to find..:wtf:

THanks for all the help Opie and others..

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If it were me, I would use what you have for rooting only, and have an Emily's Garden type DWC to put the plants in once they are rooted. This is an awesome system for beginners as it is real easy to maintain and produces some fantastic results. Run Emily's Garden through a search engine, then buy one for like $80 or build one for like $35. I've built several over the years.

1) Yes I would take out the sprinkler and put a couple air stones in there once the roots start hanging down by the sprinkler. Ultimately you will want some way to change the water level, so a little of the roots (about 3") will be in water at all times. This will make sure they never get dried out to the point the plants will get stressed, even during power outages. The sprinkler will not function properly once the roots start hanging that low. You do not have to spray either the leaves or the roots. However, many people insist that plants want to be fed from above as well as below. I have never folair fed, but I am about to. I got some worm casting liquid to spray this time around. As long as you keep your water level anywhere from 0 to 4 inches from the bottom of your pots, the bubbles bursting from the air stones will saturate the roots that are in air. I would not try to keep lowering the sprinkler to keep the roots out. You are going to end up with one big tangled root mass that will take up most of the volume of the bucket. Instead I would have a valve that just turns the sprinkler off once the roots reach it. Like I said, it would just be much easier if you had a dedicated rooting system and a dedicated growing system.

2) You start supporting them as soon as it looks like they might be having a hard time supporting themselves. This is normally not until some point after flowering is induced, but with 3" net pots it will most likely be at some point before flowering. Depends on a lot of things, but it could be as soon as one month after they have started growing good. I highly recommend the use of a screen. I think this is the easiest way to support the plants. Just put it about a foot or 18" above the pots, and tie the branches to the screen with twisty ties. This way you can also spread out your foliage to your delight, in order to take up area efficiently.

3) Ah, come on. DWC should be easy to find. Anyway it means Deep Water Culture, and it's the best hydro method for beginners in my opinion. It's real easy to set up and maintain, and it gives you about 100 lb. of dried bud per branch.

quote=GodBud

What are your PPMs when your seedling(s) reach say the 2nd to 3rd node.
Your picture looks like yours is just slightly smaller than mine when I take mine out of my cloner and put them into my system. Before than I am using only tap water with a little B1, which makes a PPM of about 325. At the point of transplant, I start using just a touch of nutrients, which ups the PPM to about 450. I leave it like that for a few days, then go to 600. One week later 1000, one week later, 1400 where it pretty much stays until 10 days before harvest.

Right now I have an 18 gal res put about 10 gal of regular tap water. Net pot suspended from the hole I cut. Filled with hydroten
Sounds good, but I think that you could start giving them a very small amount of nutrients. Also, if you don't have an airstone in your res, I would definately put one or more in there. Better yet, a powerhead submersible pump that circulates the solution and injects air. Better yet, both.

I use AN nutes 3pt I have some Cal mag and just ordered some HyOx. Anyway, my meter reflects 5.7 Ph and 600 PPM nutes mixed appropiately.
Oh I see you are using nutes already. 600 seems slightly high for the size of your plant, but it certainly looks healthy, so I wouldn't change anything at this point.

I am a little worked up regarding the water times. Basically, I have a timer that gives me 14 set times so on off on off etc counts as one of the 14 so I have it set up to a good 1.5 hrs drink first thing when the lights come on then I stagger it on off throughout the day every couple hrs with an on time of roughly 30 - 40 minutes. I give it one good last dose of about 1 hour then the lights go out about 30 minutes after. I have this looping 7 days a week Does this sound okay?
This sounds fine, especially seeing how healthy your plant looks. I don't worry about what time of the day it is, I just use the same on and off times 24 hrs per day. If your plant can handle going without water for 6 hrs at night, I imagine it could go 2 hrs without during the day. You want to give it as little water as possible without stressing the plant. You can find out exacty what this is by very slowly decreasing pump on times while watching very carefully for any signs of stress. Once you see stress from lack of moisture, go back to the setting you used just before that one. Preferably you'll get a cyclestat when money situations permit, then you can do something like 2 minutes on and 1 hour off, or something. The timer you have will work fine for now though, just try to figure out the maximum off time you can have.

Also at what point do you know when to kick the PPMs up. I mean the plant cant talk, yes I know it talks through what you see but how do you just sense its wanting more vitamins. Is there a theory to that? I know good ole experience is the best answer but seriously, any thoughts regarding this (not strippers) hehe!
I don't listen to my plant. I am her master and she must obay. Actually I just kinda have always followed the schedule I mentioned above, and everything just seems to work out. I don't worry about if a plant wants more vitamens unless I see signs of it. Then I get out the problem charts, and see if I can't figure out what the problem is. Eventually you will get a schedule figured out and not have to worry about it so much.

I use a 400 W interchangeable MH/HPS hovers about 3 feet up.
That's a good distance for how old your plant looks. However I suggest starting to move it closer, the closer the better. You figure out how close the same way you figure minimum pump on time. Just move it a little closer at a time, changing slowly, while watching for signs of heat stress. I have a cool tube for my 400W in my veg section, so the plants can almost touch the glass. Otherwise, maybe end up with the light about 1 foot away?

Thanks
No problem.

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Originally Posted by Opie Yutts

Well I guess I was thinking that if somebody does soil grows only, then he starts doing hydro as well, he should have a stronger reputation. Makes sense to me.

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oh, well, thank you, Opie ... coming from someone I respect like you, thats something ... When I read it, it went right over my head :D something that doesn't take much effort, these days haha :jointsmile:

*crying* They respect me. They really respect me.

Thank you.

OPIE

Simply stated you ROCK!!!!!!!!1

Thanks for taking the time to respond to my questions and concerns! This is a great thread and you really make it shine bro!

Peace

Absolutely no problem, and my pleasure and stuff. Glad I can help.

Thanks again Opie..I think for the first grow i might try and use the same sytem all the way through flowering..hopefully it wont be a waste..I bought a small single outlet aquarium air pump and two air stones..theyre like 5 or 6 inches long...I used a T-splitter and ran it to both air stones..You think my air pump is too small? The stones are not putting off a whole lot of bubbles..the pump says 5-15 gallon but maybe i should have only ran it to 1 air stone instead of 2? I planned on just replacing with a bigger pump, what do you think?

If funds permit, I would definately get a little bigger pump so you can have good bubbles from each 6" stone. Otherwise, you could just run one with the pump you have and that would be sufficient. Many people don't even have that much in one bucket.

awesome..thanks opie, few pics here..PH sky rocketed to 8.0 all the sudden today..got that taken care of..had to throw one away that didn't make it and am afraid i might have to do the same to the smallest of the 3 in the pic..It hasn't done anything for prob 3 days and looks dark in color with a tiny bit of white on the leaves...??????? Have a few more seeds germinating right now to take the fallen soldiers places. They seem to grow pretty quick..i put them in the RW exactly 7 days ago i think or maybe 6, but either way they show improvement each morning..THanks for all the help..see you soon

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/c...7/DSC02057.jpg
http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/c...7/DSC02055.jpg
http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/c...7/DSC02054.jpg
http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/c...7/DSC02049.jpg
http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/c...7/DSC02048.jpg

The PH fluctuation like that is often caused when the rockwool is not soaked sufficiently before use. Perhaps that is what happened here. Just keep a close eye on it and it should eventually stabilize. Yeah that is pretty lame bubbling in the picture. I would just use one stone or get a bigger pump. The good news is that they appear to be making a good effort at growing, I think they will probably be OK.

Thanks again Opie...Talk to you soon :D

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There was a rather lengthy discussion about light cycles a couple of months back. One point that a number of people seemed to agree on is that going from 24/7 to 18/6, the plant thinks the days are getting shorter so it wants to grow faster.

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Ok, i'm not sure if i have over looked this on this thread or not but there was a very lengthy discussion on roots and the what goes on in a 24 hour period using different light schedules. To boil this doing to keep it short, here is what happened during that test (this is a hydro test if i remember correctly)

24hour period:
24/0 - 29cm root growth
20/4 - 33cm root growth
18/6 - 38cm root growth

the only thing i dont know is what nutes were used during that 24hour period...would be nice to get an experiment to find out during which stages of growth the plant uses which nutes more specificly....for example during the first week after pop'n the bean which nutes does it use the most and in what quantities..... If anyone has that info i would love to know it...

Hope that info helps, and if its a repeat, sorry...

Another unscientific opinion here.....my plants have done better on 18/6. Something about a rest period from the photosynthesis or something.

I hope my detailed and thorough explanation here has helped. :D

Good stuff guys, thanks..i plan on going to 18/6 tonight or maybe beg of next week..like i said its only been a week from germination so they seem to grow overnight..literally. hope the new light schedule kicks em into high gear..talk to you soon

Quick question..I had some seeds germ that i kinda forgot about..one started rooting through the paper towels. Anyway i just put them in some solo cups with peat moss and a few pebbles from the backyard and was going to put them under the light with the small system..Is this a bad idea? if so please explain, and also if its ok and they actually start to grow, is it possible to take them out of hte soil and put in hte system with hydroton rocks? If some of the ones that are in the system end up being males or something like that.. Or if you guys have any other suggestions on what to do with them i'm all ears..Kinda only studied up on hydro/aero, not soil..Thanks in advance

One problem could be the PH of the rocks you used, or the mineral or salt content. Who knows? Most likely it will be OK. I don't think I would put peat in my hydro system for fear that it would get a bunch of junk in the system and plug up my filters. I'm pretty sure peat is mostly just for soil grows.

I grow in soil to keep mothers. Why don't you just take cuttings off the ones in dirt and start them in hydro, instead of putting the dirt ones in hydro? I don't think plants will do well if you take them out of dirt and try to put them in hydro. Getting all the dirt off the roots would shock them too much I think.

Ok sounds good..Now to use them as mothers, what does that entail? how long until clippings are ready to be taken?

THanks again Opie

mums

I highly recommend making a copy of this on your computer in case it ever goes away. It is one of the best articles on moms that I have seen. I hope to start doing it properly some day like in the article, but right now I just am growing plants in dirt, and occasionally take cuttings off them for clones. When do you do this? About 2 weeks before you want to put them into your system, because it could take that long to root them, depending on your style. Of course you do not do this until the mom is big enough to handle the stress of the cuttings, probably after a couple months of vegging, if you plan to take a few. If you're going to grow from clones, which is of course way better than from seed, search "scarification". And of course, don't start a plant as a mother unless you know it's female. Males are useless unless you want to breed and make seeds, which you don't need unless you let your mothers die.

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Originally Posted by Opie Yutts

*crying* They respect me. They really respect me.

Thank you.

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naw there just using u for what info u can give them lmao:thumbsup:

Hey, i got mad respect for ya opie..and I also appreciate your valuable info..or as much as one can appreciate over a computer board..lol Anyway i'll get sum new pics up soon..they seem to be doing ok for now..

Changed water and put what appears to be nutrients today (just some stuff i got for free..looks like some generic bottles:

Davids Grow - Base
Davids Grow - Grow

1) Put 2 tsps per 2 gallons...No idea if this is good or bad but guess we'll see...What you think?

2)Finally got a thermo/hygrometer..Is reading 88 degrees F and 58%RH..Think thats ok? I only have 4 - 26 W CFLs in there now..can't imagine how hot its going to be when I flower...

3)Oh yeah and i wasn't particularly referring to putting the soil pots in with the system. I could have been a little more clear.. I actually just meant is it ok for them to be in hte same closet next to the aero system? If so should i put them outdoors when i want them to flower or something liek that..don't think i'll have room for all the plants in the closet..I'll include a pic of that as well..

Also got a bigger air pump with 2 outlets. Much better now that each air stone has its own line. Will include pic later as well

4)After looking at so many pictures and seeing how big these plants are going to get..(HOPEFULLY GET!!) I can't go from start to harvest in this system..I plan to keep the best 3 or 4 plants (that is as long as i get 4 ladies) and put htem in their own bucket with their own five inch circular air stone..NOW, the question is should i get a 4 outlet ecoplus bubbler air pump: ?

4 Outlet EcoPlus Air Bubbler Pump Hydroponics Aquarium - (eBay item 200173694847 end time Nov-20-07 14:30:00 PST)

OR - Just get another one of the small 2 outlet air pump like i have now? I am curious because i want the MOST amount of bubbles as possible..As a wiseman once said, "the key is oxygen/bubbles" :D
If i were to do this it would obviously eliminate the sprinkler..Would that be sufficient as long as a couple inches of roots were in the water?

Thanks everybody, especially OPIE!!!!! Puttin one in the air for ya now :smokin:

i use airhogs they produce a ton more than the lil stones u buy at a fish shop and i also keep the sprayers goin as well so incase 1 goes down u still have the other

Thanks palerider, anyway you could give me a link to where i might find some..did a few searches and came up empty..Let me know..thanks again

i got them at the dro shop