Does a higher power intervene in the world?

I've been following an interesting thread about evolution versus intelligent design. One of the arguments for intelligent design is that some things in biology are too complex to have evolved through a natural process, and so an intelligent designer of some kind must have stepped in to make those complex structures evolve. It seems to me that if you believe a higher power of some kind intervenes in the world, then you are much more likely to believe that the higher power has somehow guided evolution. Likewise, if you do not think that a higher power ever intervenes in the world, then you are not likely to ever believe in intelligent design. The question I am posing is not whether a higher power exists, and it is not about evolotion versus intelligent design --- that's covered in other threads. It's only about whether a higher power acts in our world.

I tend to think that a higher power does not act in the world, but I've also sometimes found myself praying for something to happen, as if part of me thought that God would intervene on my behalf.

So what do you think? Does a higher power intervene in the world? Does a higher power make things happen that otherwise would happen differently?

And this is my opinion, yes.

I can agree with Creationists on one thing. There is a higher power responsible for our beginning. However, where we start to disagree is when you begin to describe this 'higher power'.

I think extra-terrestrial beings, meaning, not originating from this planet, colonized Earth, for whatever reason.

To answer your question, I think they are still among us, and are 'guiding us'. I think most of our technological breakthroughs, (Atom Bomb, E-MC squared, Engine, the Wheel) were all handed down to us by these beings. I think this world would be VERY different if they weren't guiding us.

A higher power than the world?

Maybe the higher power IS the world, though not limited to just that... As for a higher power that 'intervenes'... that sort of implies that there is a mundane world, and a 'higher' spiritual force that manipulates it. What makes the most sense to me is that it all works together and that, in essence, there is no higher or lower.

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Originally Posted by afghooey

A higher power than the world?

Maybe the higher power IS the world, though not limited to just that... As for a higher power that 'intervenes'... that sort of implies that there is a mundane world, and a 'higher' spiritual force that manipulates it. What makes the most sense to me is that it all works together and that, in essence, there is no higher or lower.

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I guess i didn't really mean higher than the world, or I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that

I used the term "higher power," becasue I didn't want to say "God" --- I wanted to leave it a little more open than the conventional concept of God. It looks like Ghengis Chron already picked up on that line of thought and mentioned a belief in extra-terrestrial beings that guide us --- a "higher power" that is not God, but does influece events here on earth.

Anyway, I meant god-like or other powerful entities that we do not necessarily understand that have a hand in chaging events. Something outside of conventional science as we know it. So it might be the conventional God or a patron saint that might answer prayers or cause miracles or influence earthly events, if you believe in that kind of thing. Or it might be powerful extraterrestrials that secretely guide events on earth. Or maybe you believe that these kinds of entities exist, but they do not influence earthly affairs. Or maybe you do not believe in these knds of beings at all, and believe that events just play out according to physical laws.

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Originally Posted by dragonrider

Does a higher power intervene in the world?

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Yeah, heâ??s called the US Government.

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Originally Posted by greg23

Yeah, heâ??s called the US Government.

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Well, you got that right. And it's not always the best kind of intervention...

If a higher power intervenes with our lives, then I'd like to know what their doing with me? Am I a joke? Did they stick me here to laugh at me? Is that the reason why I was voted class-clown, because there was an alien intervention?

I will wait for further instructions.

Churches and religon were made by Man, not God! Religon was made by man to so The higher classes could control the masses! If there is a God he is pissed of what his creations have done in his Name! If There is a God and he's all godly and good then why would he want Thousands killed in his name? The Crusades were done in his Name, I think if there is a god, he'd be pissed about that! I'm not truely certain there is a god, but if there is a god, then the devil does exisit too, cause one cannot exist without the other, there can be no good in the world if there is no evil. How would wee know what was good, if there was nothin to bad to compare it to?

this is an interesting thread. i would post any views on creationsim or evolution as this will take it down that road.

i am a man who believes frimly in science and logic. the tangible. but the more research and more i read. the more i begin to belive in the metaphysical and the intangible.

i think that there are higher powers in the universe but they act in a passive way. they wont cure your child of cancer or give you the winning lottery numbers. but tehy are an attainable knowledge energy store. that provides the tools and knowledge that humans have always sought.

after reading most of richard dawkins work i believe 100% in evolution as his simulations on gene selection basically hypothetically map out how species can make massive leaps in realtively short 100 - 1000 generations.

i tend to think of the universe as being a massive firework and the higher power, being, whatever, as being the one who set the fuse. the energy released and specifically the light, as it is my personal belief this is the purest form of energy and where matter came from was released and it is in the light its conscience exists.

it only became apparent to us when we developed the nessecary conscience to be self aware of ourselfs and thoughts, that we became able to develop our souls and so elevate ourselfs to the level of the universal conscious and free our minds from the biolgy of our bodies.

this is however my reasoning and logic and is something that i have arrived at myself and although you may agree and resonate with it. only arriving at it yourself can further your soul. i am no way a master, just man on a quest. peace

snow

you can call it whatever you want. God, Earth. Spirits. Whatever. I really don't think we are here by mistake. There is a reason that we are here. Maybe just an expieriment by the Ol Mighty, or maybe something much more important, but we are here. So we need to be the best we can be. Which I am sure we all do.!?

Snowblind, i have a point of view much like yours... i also think that there are higher powers, and that they act in a passive way... its interesting that i hadnt read this thread before, and some hours ago, when i was HIGH i was thinking just about this... i think the higher powers act upon what is called "chance".

As a physicist, ive learned in quantum mechanics that in a VERY small scale, our universe is a complete mess... pairs of particles are created and destroyed at random places, in random times... virtual particles are exchanged... in resume... the chaos. Only at greater scales the order that we call "the laws of physic" appears.

One real-life example of this is the emission of radioactivity by a radioactive atom. Each radioative atom emits radiation, but the exact instant of this emission is completly unpredictable. We only know that, there is, lets say, 50% of chance of it emit radiation during one hour, but there is absolutely no laws to tell when the atom must emit.

So, i think the higher powers would intervene in the physical world through this "holes" in the physical laws. A higher power would, for example, induce the atom to emit its radiation at some choosen instant. Doing so it wouldnt be interfering with the physical laws, and yet it would be acting somehow upon the physical world.

If the higher powers could intervene in what is called "chance", then they could induce what is called "miracles". For example... it isnt physically impossible that a lake freeze in the summer (with the temperature above 0C/32F). Due the chaotic nature of the matter, there is a small probability of it happen, but the probability is SO small (1 in 100000000000.....000000.....00000........ you got it.) that we say its impossible.
But if were possible to act upon the chances, then would be possible to influence all the choices of all the molecules of water and made all of them made all the "right" choices for freezing a lake in the summer.

I think its also related to what we usually call "good luck". When all the things that happens seems to fit to our benefit, we say we were lucky. But if we calcule the probabilities of everything had gone so well, we find that we were lucky indeed, cause the chances were very low... so, maybe what we call "luck" and treat as an abstract concept is in fact a measurable thing, that is related with our ability of influence random events.

And if we think this way, we could say that the higher powers would be the most "lucky" beings that are...

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Originally Posted by Coelho

So, i think the higher powers would intervene in the physical world through this "holes" in the physical laws. A higher power would, for example, induce the atom to emit its radiation at some choosen instant. Doing so it wouldnt be interfering with the physical laws, and yet it would be acting somehow upon the physical world.

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I am amazed that someone else thoguht of this idea too! When I was studying physics and learned about the Heisenberg Uncertatinty Principle and the other things like virtual particles and vacuum fluctuations, I thought this is where a supernatural being could influence events without violating physics.

I firmly believe that physics always holds true --- no "miracle" can violate the laws of physics. But our understanding of physics now says that there are certain limits to what we can know about the state of a particle at the quantum level. Virtual particles pop out of nothingness and then disappear all the time. And I mean all the time --- every nanosecond uncountable numbers appear, recombine and disappear.

It seemed like to me that if a God, or other supernatural being that stood outside of our normal physics could control what is physically unknowable inside our physics, then that being could influence events without violating our laws of physics.

I don't actually believe that supernatural beings do this, but it occured to me that it would be one way to allow for "miracles" and maintain consistency with physics.

If you believe that God created the universe, and also believe in the Big Bang, then you probably already believe in this idea without even knowing it. One physical explanation for the Big Bang is that it is some form of highly unprobable vacuum fluctuation that resulted in unusual particles arising out of the vacuum and such rapid inflation that the virtual particles became so separated that they could never recombine and fall back into the vacuum. The universe arose out of the uncertainty principle. If you believe that, and you also believe God created the universe, then you basically believe God created the miracle of the universe through influencing the uncertainty principle.

No

But I can't post a post that is only two letters so I added some filler ;)

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Originally Posted by greg23

Yeah, heâ??s called the US Government.

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No Bush is not the higher power. maybe the "anti" higher power! LMAO