Police Batter Down Teenager's Door, Blow Off Dog's Head Without Warning

the war on drugs is working!! you lose your rights, but oh well...

Police Batter Down Teenager's Door, Blow Off Dog's Head Without Warning [align=left] MEGAN GILLIS
Ottawa Sun
Monday October 29, 2007[/align]
A Vanier woman is claiming police brutality after tactical team officers with a warrant to search for drugs broke down her door Thursday, shot two of her dogs to death and terrified her teen daughters.
Joanne Charlebois said she was spending the evening packing for a move with the help of friends, and her daughters, aged 16 and 19, were studying with a pal, when men in helmets broke down the door of her McArthur Ave apartment.
Charlebois claims officers gave no warning before shooting the dogs, whom she says were gentle mutts who were running away in fear. They left bullet holes in the floor and a casing under the sofa.
(Article continues below)


"I heard bangs at the front door, they knocked the door in," a weeping Charlebois said. "I thought it was a joke for Halloween.
'THEY BLEW HER HEAD OFF'

"Then click, boom, boom. My dog (Daisy) was in the air, her legs shaking. Then my dog Maxine came running to me and they blew her head off right next to me.
"They came in and terrorized my household. They killed our dogs ... I'm traumatized, my daughters are traumatized."
The officers kept asking where the cocaine and guns were hidden and tore the place apart.
Charlebois says she had small quantities of pot and cocaine for personal use but showed documents indicating she faces three counts of possession for the purpose of trafficking and one count of possessing of the proceeds of crime.
Ottawa Police, who didn't tell the media about the raid, could not confirm what was found or what charges were laid.
Staff-Sgt. David Veinotte said officers arrested eight people.
"They were confronted by pit bull mixes inside the premises," Veinotte said.
A spokeswoman for the Ottawa Humane Society says the two dead dogs delivered to them by the police were pitbull or mastiff types and weighed about 85 lbs. each.
The shooting is under investigation by the professional standards section, which is normal procedure.
ALWAYS TWO SIDES
"There are always two sides to every story," Veinotte said of the incident.
Martina Charlebois, 19, says she was cuffed and thrown down as she reached for her dead pets to comfort them.
"They dragged me through the blood, " she said.
"He had his foot to the back of my head and a gun to my head. I just wanted to touch them."
The teen spent the night in jail, where she was strip-searched, before being released with her mother. Martina, who wasn't charged, said she hasn't been able to eat or sleep since.
"This is what they did to my family," Charlebois said, clutching photos of her dogs' bloodied bodies. "What they did is wrong."

am i supposed to feel bad that a mother with two kids who does drugs got her dogs killed?


because i do not.

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Originally Posted by higher4hockey

am i supposed to feel bad that a mother with two kids who does drugs got her dogs killed?


because i do not.

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Yeah, because if you use drugs you're not a human being any more, and your dogs deserve to die. Frig man you're as bad as all these drug-war neo-cons; they're all just "dope fiends" that should lose all constitutionally-appointed rights. You know I heard a rumor that you smoke pot sir, somebody blow away your pets and terrorize your children.

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Originally Posted by higher4hockey

am i supposed to feel bad that a mother with two kids who does drugs got her dogs killed?


because i do not.

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Well i guess if i came over to your house and brutally killed your dogs, you wouldn't care.....right?

After all, you ARE on a cannabis forum, and it's considered a drug....

i guess you an i see things very differently.

she did endanger her self and her household but the popo went to the extremes to get to some drugs. two wrongs in my opinion.

It wasn't just pot.......the "other" puts ya over the edge in the eyes of the law. This is Canada were talking about here.....I don't think this is common practice for a "pot user" but common for coke heads.

The also had a warrent, she had pitbulls; "gentle mutts who were running away in fear". SURE they were....somebody strange busts in the door and two pitbulls are going to go runnin' away. Simple logic says thats a load of crap.

Have a good one!:s4:

This why here in America we can legally own guns.If somebody busts your door down just start shooting them.If I sat on a jury where a women shot some people busting the door in I'd say not guilty.

Ok, i know this sounds awful, but i live in ottawa, and if you are living in vanier, that says it all right there. You guys are right, i have never heard of the ottawa police doing that over just pot. frankly you dont know her legal history, if shes gotten in trouble before, what she is involved with.

now i do know nice people in vanier myself, i have friends that live there. but frankly, having spent enough time there i can pretty safely say its not a nice area at all, there are a lot of drug and prostitution issues in vanier. I wouldnt walk alone there at night for all the money in the world.

Her story sounds nice, and i want to feel badly for her i do, but i would take what the ottawa sun writes with the worlds biggest grain of salt. its a trashy news paper. All of the Sun news papers are really trashy. it is very sensationalist and bends the truth in a big way.

Do i think the cops used undo force. yes.

do i think the story has been exaggerated by the media? yes.


killerweed owning guns is not illegal in canada. we can legally own guns, i assure you even in the cold they work. :P

and no you cant just shoot someone who busts down your door. the police are granted permission by the state to use only as much force as needed in order to handle a given situation. you cannot shoot them, it is a crime. a jury will convict someone who shot a cop.

i dont care what drugs anybody was using. seeing your pets being brutally murdered and being dragged away to jail is worse for you than any drug. i think the media should take a hard line against crooked brutal cops who help no one. always give the citizens the benefit of the doubt, not the cops like the media usually does. was it the daughter or the mother that they were after?

I'm siding with P4B and H4H. I don't think the dogs would have just run away. They would have attacked, which would justify having to shooting them. I feel bad that the dogs had to die because the woman was a drug user, but in the end it was her fault that this all happend.

yes, it was her fault the cops busted down her door for having a personal amount of drugs to use in her own home...she could have been working with al qaeda, they probably should have just killed her right there as well...she could have instantly started a terrorist attack...

i guess people just need to learn to love the new freedom of tyranny.

im thinking they also had to go up and knock the door and maybe some nasty words were exchanged resulting in them busting the door down if she would have just open'd the door and stepped out she could have dealt with them much better - hope im not sounding like im sticking up for the two cops just thinking of the situation

The cops deserve just as much consideration as they gave the dogs.

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Originally Posted by mctokin

I'm siding with P4B and H4H. I don't think the dogs would have just run away. They would have attacked, which would justify having to shooting them. I feel bad that the dogs had to die because the woman was a drug user, but in the end it was her fault that this all happend.

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Well, maybe the dogs attacked, but how do you know? Anyway, it's not like dogs know the difference between cops and robbers. In their eyes, it's most likely just the same. I don't see why they had to kill the dogs, though. They do have tasers, right? I think this was excessive force by the police. You don't necessarily need to kill someone when they are attacking you. There is such a thing as thwarting an attack without taking away an organism's life. All life is important, no matter how small or different they are from we humans.

All i can type is, i am at a loss of words.
i will side with either side but bummer to hear about the k9's. long time animal user and its sad to hear things like this.



and by animal user. I mean i have used animals for a buddies, roommates or just a friend.

I think the key point here is that she posessed enough coke for personal use. It's a philosophical matter, one where the US and I disagree strongly; that somebody is a bad person worthy of any punishment, simply for making the wrong choices about their health.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf_The_Grey

I think the key point here is that she posessed enough coke for personal use. It's a philosophical matter, one where the US and I disagree strongly; that somebody is a bad person worthy of any punishment, simply for making the wrong choices about their health.

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CAN I GET AN AMEN!!!:rambo:

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Originally Posted by Vino

Ok, i know this sounds awful, but i live in ottawa, and if you are living in vanier, that says it all right there. You guys are right, i have never heard of the ottawa police doing that over just pot. frankly you dont know her legal history, if shes gotten in trouble before, what she is involved with.

now i do know nice people in vanier myself, i have friends that live there. but frankly, having spent enough time there i can pretty safely say its not a nice area at all, there are a lot of drug and prostitution issues in vanier. I wouldnt walk alone there at night for all the money in the world.

Her story sounds nice, and i want to feel badly for her i do, but i would take what the ottawa sun writes with the worlds biggest grain of salt. its a trashy news paper. All of the Sun news papers are really trashy. it is very sensationalist and bends the truth in a big way.

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Nice to see there is somebody with first hand knowledge of the area. With the white lady we all know what would happen with a friendly knock at the door by the law. :toilet_claw: Right down the toilet with the product........that's why they just kick in doors in that case.

If your thing is gone and you wanna ride on; cocaine.
Dont forget this fact, you cant get it back; cocaine.
She dont lie, she dont lie, she dont lie; cocaine.

She put herself, kids, dogs at risk.......like the song states, "Dont forget this fact, you cant get it back; cocaine."

Have a good one!:s4:

i know my dogs would attack thats what i train them for and i would be right behind them with the steel :gunfighter2:

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Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud

The also had a warrent, she had pitbulls; "gentle mutts who were running away in fear". SURE they were....somebody strange busts in the door and two pitbulls are going to go runnin' away. Simple logic says thats a load of crap.

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Originally Posted by mctokin

I'm siding with P4B and H4H. I don't think the dogs would have just run away. They would have attacked, which would justify having to shooting them. I feel bad that the dogs had to die because the woman was a drug user, but in the end it was her fault that this all happend.

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:rolleyes:

*This is in no way a personal attack upon any other member:*

To think that any and all pitbulls are going to automatically attack anything that comes busting through a door would be ignorant. I personally know very "scary" looking pitbulls who act like any other dog. Hell, I've scared a (full grown) pit into another room by swinging open a door and shouting. Mind you, I didn't have full tactical gear on, a gun drawn, and another body with me either.

There were two though!

? Two men. Two dogs.

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Originally Posted by OLDE ENGLISH '800

i know my dogs would attack thats what i train them for and i would be right behind them with the steel...

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See underlined & bold text.

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Originally Posted by pisshead

yes, it was her fault the cops busted down her door for having a personal amount of drugs to use in her own home...she could have been working with al qaeda, they probably should have just killed her right there as well...she could have instantly started a terrorist attack...

i guess people just need to learn to love the new freedom of tyranny.

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Ahhh...she was using coke! Of course! You can't trust anybody who uses coke...so you'd better kick her door in, shoot two of their dogs in the face in front of them; then promptly arrest the woman and her teenage daughter in the dog's blood......

What? Personal amount found? No guns? No violence? (except for the cops) Her daughters were studying? Bahh! Hogwash! Kick the doors in and come in with guns blazin'!

Whenever I've owned dogs it's always been two at a time; they seem to stay more active and also have a companion then. I never "trained" them to be aggressive but I can definately say that NOBODY would be busting in the doors. Myself, I always had Sheppard or a sheppard mix......I can't imagine a fighting dog being such a pussy in comparison.

I got a friend with a pit...doesn't train her to be a fighter but once again, NOBODY would be crashing in the door watching the dog run away.

Also, since when in Canada or the states do cops bust through doors just for a lil' "personal use" drugs? She was probably doing a bit of business for this to happen.

Have a good one!:s4:

NYtimes.com - Police Raid Wrong Man's House and Kill His Dogs

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Aaron Peterson, Mr. Miller's 15-year-old son, said he was asleep on the couch beside his Rottweiler when he heard banging on the door. "I was just getting ready to get up and the door flew open," Aaron told The Philadelphia Daily News. "They had their guns up. They said, 'Get the dog!' Then they shot him four times." 'Put His Foot on My Neck'

Officers also killed a Labrador retriever. Mr. Miller said the dog was running away from the officers and trying to hide under the dining room table.

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Damn pussy dog.

_________________________


Family irate after police raid home, killing their pit bull

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"They never afforded us the opportunity to restrain Max before shooting him in close range," Perry said. "Anyone who has met the dog will tell you he has never acted in an aggressive manner."

The family pleaded with officers to let them restrain the dog, she said, describing the animal as a 5-year-old American pit bull. Max was barking as any dog would if confronted by a dozen strangers with automatic weapons, Perry said.

Perry and other family members adamantly denied the dog lunged at officers.

"The running family joke is that he is a poodle dressed as a pit bull," she said. "He was a big, gentle baby who never had any problems."

The dog was shot because he was a pit bull and the breed has a reputation for being menacing, Perry said.

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Good thread, hot topic........but to both sides of the issue: Lets keep this civil. :thumbsup:

Have a good one!:jointsmile:

So according to what some of you are saying, if she had only marijuana, it would've been wrong for them to shoot the dogs, drag her daughter through their animal's blood at gunpoint, and hold her overnight subjecting her to a strip search...? But since she had a personal amount of cocaine that was all justified? WTF?

This is severely fucked up, I hope they pursue a lawsuit and win.

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Originally Posted by Markass

So according to what some of you are saying, if she had only marijuana, it would've been wrong for them to shoot the dogs, drag her daughter through their animal's blood at gunpoint, and hold her overnight subjecting her to a strip search...? But since she had a personal amount of cocaine that was all justified? WTF?

This is severely fucked up, I hope they pursue a lawsuit and win.

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Not at all........if it were up to me everything would be legal but this IS the mentallity of law enforcement. If your doing BUSINESS with the white lady they'll put on the smack down.

Have a good one!:s4:

We live in a world with laws. I for one feel that the laws that govern our societies are absolutely necessary. It is every human beings decision on this planet to make a decision on whether or not to obey the laws that have been implaced. If you make a decision to obey the laws, then you have nothing to worry about as far as living your life without fear of the police. If on the other hand you make a decision to not follow laws that are implaced, then you subject yourself to the consequences of disobeying laws. I know this, you reading this know this, and the woman that this discussion is about also knew this. She knew this when she decided to break the laws concerning possesion of cocaine and marijuana. Breaking a law has consequences, which I am sure we can all agree on, the consequences in this situation were having the police show up with a warrant. The police were not wrong in doing this, a mother with children using cocaine is not right in the eyes of not only the law, but me as well. The police show up with a warrant, and a police officer when going to serve a warrant prepares for the worst. Imagine yourself in a situation where you are going to arrest a criminal, you do not know what awaits you behind a kicked in door, it could be a mother with two children and two pitbulls. It could also be many armed drug addicts with automatic weapons. So a trained professional prepares for the worst, in this case the threat that these police officers faced (and remember, an assualt team has to make split second decisions when breaching a room) was two pitbulls, dogs react differently to different situations. I am sure we can all agree that none of us were there, and therefore cannot comment on how the two dogs in question reacted. Speaking as someone who has trained in room clearing, I can say that neutralizing the threat is of the utmost importance. The two dogs in the room after making a decision in a matter of seconds appeared to be the biggest threat, therefore they were neutralized. The two dogs were killed, for the police officers in question there is no more threat to their safety, now arrests can be made without any people getting killed. After arrests were made look at what really happened. Two animals were killed which was unfortonate, but a mother who was a hard drug user was taken into custody and her children who were subjected to a hard drug user are no longer in that situation. This mother knew the consequences of her actions, she knew that her children might possibly be taken away from her based on her decision to use cocaine. she ignored this fact, which makes me question her devotion to her children. Really what is more important, your children...or drugs?


To me, the good outweighs the bad, two animals were killed, yeah that sucks, but in the end two children are no longer being subjected to a mother who is a hard drug user who apparently cares more about using drugs than the possibility of losing her to children to the consequences of her actions.

therefore i still do not feel bad about this situation and feel that the police officers in question have done NO wrong.

We need a citizens army to face the war on excessive force as long as its organized we could make all kinds of mistakes and get away with it just like them

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Originally Posted by higher4hockey

To me, the good outweighs the bad, two animals were killed, yeah that sucks, but in the end two children are no longer being subjected to a mother who is a hard drug user who apparently cares more about using drugs than the possibility of losing her to children to the consequences of her actions.

therefore i still do not feel bad about this situation and feel that the police officers in question have done NO wrong.

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How do you know that she was a bad mother? She could use cocaine once a fucking week, maybe when her kids go to their father's, or grandmother's house or some crap. There was a roof over their head, they were apparently in a livable environment...I know several people who pick up a small amount of cocaine from time to time for them and their spouse, they have children, and they are wonderful parents, the same as a non drug using parent. It's just that cocaine gives them something that they enjoy, like cigarette smokers, or beer drinkers, or pot smokers...they like the way it makes them feel.

For god sakes, she had a personal amount...She was no drug dealer, she was a drug user.

Now I'm sure she's going to get her children taken away from her and will probably face prison time.

fuck the fucking laws. they're stupid. In a free country, you should have the right to do what you want if you're not hurting anybody..

I like what ron paul said..."Saying no is good, but letâ??s find out whoâ??s supposed to say no. I'm tired of the federal government telling us what we should do and shouldn't do."

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Originally Posted by higher4hockey

We live in a world with laws. I for one feel that the laws that govern our societies are absolutely necessary. It is every human beings decision on this planet to make a decision on whether or not to obey the laws that have been implaced. If you make a decision to obey the laws, then you have nothing to worry about as far as living your life without fear of the police. If on the other hand you make a decision to not follow laws that are implaced, then you subject yourself to the consequences of disobeying laws.

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You contradict yourself. You tout that this woman should follow the law, that there are consequences for not following the law, therefor the police are justified in breaking the law. You don't see the problem here? You're advocating a society where people strictly abide by the law, but those who break it shouldn't be punished accoring to the law; just the whim of angry cops. Laws aren't just in place to dictate actions, they decide how we should be punished. Can't have it both ways.

i cant see two pitballs running away simple

these dogs are banned from being bred here in the uk, and soon will be extinct in britain

good job i say they harm loadsa children by biting there faces off

in a perfect world no one would care what you do to yourself in the privacy of your own home. in case you haven't noticed, this is far from a perfect world. we all live in a society of laws over which we have little or no control. many of us on these boards are in the process of committing a felony every day of our lives and it seems to me to be totally irrational to expect that there will be no repercussions. the teenager in question knowingly entered into a lifestyle that put here and her family in danger of arrest and worse, i have no pity for her as i would have no pity for myself under similar circumstances. we all live with the possibility of being raided, that is the choice we have made.

as for the dogs:
most pd's have a standing order that pit bulls are to be considered dangerous and killed without compunction under such circumstances. the blame for their deaths can be placed squarely on the head of their owner, the teenager who put them in the situation in the first place.

the simple reality is that, no matter how we may attempt to justify our actions, we are criminals. though the laws may be unjust, we enter into an implied contract to abide by those laws merely by existing within society. none of us is above the law. we are merely outside the law, if we're lucky. i always keep in mind the line "to live outside the law you must be honest" and strive to remember that honesty starts by being honest with yourself. no matter how normal my lifestyle may seem to me it is considered illegal and immoral in the eyes of society and its laws and eventually i will have to pay the price for these sins against the powers that be. unless, of course, i can stay one step ahead of the crooked arm of the law.

Gandalf~ the police broke the law? am i missing something here?

I guess 10 years for 2 joints would be justified as well, because it's the law, and when you break the law, you get what the government determines to be punishment.

If it was law that you had to pay a breathing tax, and punishment for not paying was death, it'd be just too, because it's a law, and we shouldn't break them.

newbie you wont get 10 years for two joints in Canada.

know the law if you are going to break it is my theory.

ok so for pot up to 30 grams of pot, or 1gram of hash you are looking at a summary offense which is a maximum punishment of 6 months and 1000$ fine.

no one is going to prison for 10 years for two joints in our country.

If you are known for selling weed it will be likely you will charged with possession as a hybrid offense, if its you first time caught again 6 months and a 1000$ fine, second offense you get a year and a 2000 fine. subsequent offenses you can face up to 5 years imprisonment.

but i have never heard of someone getting five years right off the bat for a first offense over a small amount of weed.

remember sentencing is also based on precedent. so even if you get an activist judge (i hate judicial activism) there is only so much they can do within reason.

possession of] cocaine you are looking at 6 months 1000$ for the first time, second time you are looking at 1 year 2000. the most you can get is 7 years and thats for larger amounts and subsequent offenses.

for trafficking up to three kg of weed you are looking at an indictable offense the max punishment is 5 years less a day. if you have more then three kgs you are looking at the max of life imprisonment.

for trafficking coke is an indictable offenses and has a max punishment of life imprisonment.




Clearly we can see the vast disparity in the sentencing between weed and coke. Ignorance is no excuse of the law, she lives in Vanier and does coke and weed im willing to bet money on the fact that she was involved with things she shouldn't have been. i live in the same city and no one is busting my door down and shooting my roommates dog. I deal with the same police when i go out at night.

Honestly, of four years studying crime and law i am very very bitter about police action, and the things the police do. they target people, they improperly investigate, falsify evidence. its all been done in canada and the states. Im also bitter about judicial activism (judges teaching people a lesson so to speak). but do i get mad and hot under the collar about this....no. She did have drugs, she was using drugs, and likely was not discrete about it at all if she got busted. if the police see a pit bull in a situation like that they will shoot it. if you own a pit bull you know that. my friend owns one and he is careful with it because there are no second chances with those dogs in ontario.

She had drugs in her house, the police shot dogs who are seen to be a danger. they searched her and her daughter in jail. well, yeah, thats what they do in jail if they think you might have things stashed on you. it sucks, thats why you damn well don't get caught if you are going to use drugs. searching people when they are being held is for their own, and for other peoples protection and is not out of line.


I get just as pissed off as the next person over improper police action. But you have to face the fact that this is not actually one of those times.

im not any more likely to believe the word of the police over hers....but i think the Ottawa sun is the biggest trash news paper in the world. next to the Toronto sun maybe.

i accknowledge that the police treat people in her situation fairly poorly. but the fact is, she did have drugs in her possession. so them raiding her home, and shooting dogs that are known to be dangerous, searching her and her daughter in jail.....is not actually out of line.

it sucks for them, but its all pretty standard when it comes right down to it.

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Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud

It wasn't just pot.......the "other" puts ya over the edge in the eyes of the law. This is Canada were talking about here.....I don't think this is common practice for a "pot user" but common for coke heads.

The also had a warrent, she had pitbulls; "gentle mutts who were running away in fear". SURE they were....somebody strange busts in the door and two pitbulls are going to go runnin' away. Simple logic says thats a load of crap.

Have a good one!:s4:

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My grandparents' dogs bark and bark, but are the biggest scaredy cats around. :wtf:

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Originally Posted by killerweed420

This why here in America we can legally own guns.If somebody busts your door down just start shooting them.If I sat on a jury where a women shot some people busting the door in I'd say not guilty.

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I don't go around busting down people's doors, but it scares the shit out of me when I realize there are actually people out there with this mentality.

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Originally Posted by Vino

newbie you wont get 10 years for two joints in Canada.

know the law if you are going to break it is my theory.

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I know we're not going to get a huge amount for pot in Canada, that wasn't really my point.

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Originally Posted by Vino

Clearly we can see the vast disparity in the sentencing between weed and coke. Ignorance is no excuse of the law, she lives in Vanier and does coke and weed im willing to bet money on the fact that she was involved with things she shouldn't have been.

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Ignorance of the law is no excuse... that was the case when there were only a few laws to begin with. I read a piece not too long ago that stated there were over 2 million statutes (or as they prefer to call them, laws) in Canada. It'd take over a lifetime to familiarize yourself with all of them.

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Originally Posted by Vino

i accknowledge that the police treat people in her situation fairly poorly. but the fact is, she did have drugs in her possession. so them raiding her home, and shooting dogs that are known to be dangerous, searching her and her daughter in jail.....is not actually out of line.

it sucks for them, but its all pretty standard when it comes right down to it.

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I have a hard time believing that someone on a cannabis site would actually say something like this. You don't morally think that this is out of line? Shooting someone's dogs because they have some cocaine? Just because something is standard, that doesn't make it alright, not in my eyes.

I might be in the minority, but I know that there are responsible coke heads out there. I've never touched the stuff, nor do I condone it AT ALL, but to think that everyone that uses coke has to be a fiend is just nonsense. Pot heads are very badly portrayed in the media, you'd think we're all a bunch of lazy, good for nothing hippies.

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Originally Posted by jchap

i cant see two pitballs running away simple

these dogs are banned from being bred here in the uk, and soon will be extinct in britain

good job i say they harm loadsa children by biting there faces off

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I call bullshit on THIS post.

Maybe people like YOU should be bred out of existence. It's not the dogs fault for being violent. The reason pit bulls have a bad rap is b/c people train them to fight and to be violent.

Good job? Shooting 2 innocent pit bulls? Are you out of your freaking mind?

The harm loads of children by biting their faces off? Really? Please, if this is so frequent I want you to produce more than 5 links.

higher4hockey-- ive taken a few doj classes and some of the stuff you debate doesnt make sense to me. but you are entitled to your opinion and i always like someone whos on the real, even if i dont agree with what they say. btw why are you on a cannabis board if you drink and dont smoke?

what they did DOES go against police procedure, no matter how you put it. its in the details.

if they had a warrant to search for weapons this would sound a little more acceptable, but them coming in like fuckin cowboys created more danger to the situation than the dogs. besides these dogs werent vicious...right?

It would have been great if the cops would have killed someone in the apartment below while shooting at the dogs. That would have really fucked them over. I guess Im kinda morbid.

But really though, if they would have gotten a big score it would have been plasted all over the papers. Due to the fact that they got fuck all over then a few cadavers on their hands its not in the papers. Its appearent they were working on some bogus information.
And ya, I bet them dogs were right savage when then piggys came rushing in! =)