Printable View
Theoreme Innovation Inc. / TI SmartLamp
I just read about these through some other hydroponics website. These LEDs (there are 2 types specifically for growing) claim to be equivalent to a 600w HPS (the Smartlamp) and another claims that two of the SmartBars are equivalent to a 1000 w HPS. Very high prices, around 2k for the Smartlamp alone, but could it be worth it? There are other products on the site as well.
Discuss.
I know that product, I saw it on display 6 months ago at an hydroponics store not far from my home. But they removed it from their display recently because they were not receiving good feedback from growers who tried it.
This lamp is targeting the "supplemental" light market for greenhouse and it's focusing on a limited spectrum of blue (455-470nm) and red / far red (660nm and 730nm, not the usual 630nm orange-red that doesn't activate the phytochromes required for flowering). That's the main problem with most LED lamps when used as the main source of light: they only target the absorption spectrum of chlorophyll in the blue and red spectrum. While it's an important one, it's only ONE of the many pigments that need light with various wavelength (color) in a plant in order to be healthy. Leaves don't "change" color in the fall, they only loose their chlorophyll pigment first (it's unstable) and the "underlying" yellow / orange and red pigment are revealed. Lettuce might only require red light to grow, but most complex plants will require a more complete spectrum in order to be healthy. So in a greenhouse where a plant receive natural sunlight for part of the day, the narrow spectrum of a supplemental light is not a big problem.
For photosynthesis alone, their product is really the equivalent of a 600W HPS with far less power consumption and heat generation. In lumen, since it's targeting part of the red and blue spectrum our eyes don't perceived as bright, it will seem "dim" to the human eye compared to the output of a HPS 600W , but in term of PAR, it will be the same for the plant with only 200W. So you'll save a lot on electricity and when comparing price, keep in mind the LEDs will only start to fade a little after about 50,000 hours (that's 11 years at 12h a day).
Because of its narrow spectrum, I would not recommend using this lamp as the only source of light, I would "supplement" it with complete spectrum fluorescent tubes or CFL in order to make sure your plants receive all the light wavelength they require to be healthy. If you want to go "all led", another approach would be to add a mix of warm and cold white LEDs in the mix (there's a lot of them available in many formats that you can "plug" into a 120v "normal" light bulb fixture.
There's another less expensive (but less powerful, with 90W) new LED lamp out there from HIDhut. However, I don't think they have LEDs that reach the 660nm far red spectrum required for triggering the flowering phytochromes (from what I understand, they use 630nm orange red with some blue led). Here again, you would have the same narrow spectrum that could be a problem for a lot of plants without sunlight or another lamp with a complete spectrum.
They do have a white light lamp also, would that help in filling in the areas of the spectrum that the Smartlamp lacks?
TI SmartLamp
I would love to see a really good beginning to end LED grow with one of these. They are ridiculously expensive though. Maybe in the future, they will become more affordable, and more people can experiment with them.
their white lamp is a bit too powerfull for this. the white light doesn't need to be as powerful as the LED lamp, think of it as a "supplement". There's a lot of white led bulb replacement products out there. I would add 25% in white light of the RED+BLUE you're using. So, if you have have a 200W smartlamp, I would add about 50W of a mix of warm and cold white LED to supplement it. But it would be even cheaper to use fluorescent for this.
They only make Smart Lamps in 300 w and the smartbars are 500w. But yes, it would be way cheaper to use fluorescents for this project. I too would like to see a veg to harvest (or seed to harvest) cycle using these alone. The problem is, who really has money to afford these if they already have HID lighting?Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperman
They are not targetting indoor grower with this product, but commercial greenhouses who have thousands of HPS lamps. For these people, the price difference will easily be absorbed by the economy in electricity consumption and not having to change the bulbs every 1-2 years. And since they are only using the lamps as a supplement, they don't need a full spectrum, but instead target the most "efficient" wavelength (deep 660nm red with a little bit of "royal blue" 450nm) for photosynthesis.Quote:
The problem is, who really has money to afford these if they already have HID lighting?
Now they are sold with a different series of spectrum called the Probloom which includes UV and IR. From what I've seen the flowering issue is no longer a problem.
Here is a place that is testing a few different LED light on fruits and veges. Just don't mention your favorite plant in the message form thou (canna). Experiments with Hydroponics, Aeroponics, and LED Grow Lighting
I seen the T1 probloom in a local hydro store also... LOL what a joke... I have a Procyon 100 and for $600 this light is brighter and better. Don't waste your money also you could get 2 of the procyon's for the price of one of the T1 smart lamps.
By the way the T1 smart lamp also has white leds in it about 15 I think. Here is more info and pics on this light. TI-SmartLamp?? - LED Lighting - GreenPineLane
The problem is they are not useing CREE led's or Lexon's for that matter.
I bought a couple of the TI Smartlamps a few weeks ago.
Originally they both were for a viticulture set-up I was working on.
Vineyard got worried and had me use only one and a 600w HPS for comparisons, till I can show they work well enough.
So....I took one TI SmartLamp Pro-bloom, and two 120 EZ-cloners and some willing mom MJ donors; and just for shits and giggles started them up. Plan is to see what it will produce in a quickie grow set-up.
After a couple of weeks, my wine vines are every bit as good under the TI as the 600 HPS.
The MJ cuttings cracked stems after 3 days on 4th day sent them to 12/12.
Everything is moving along nicely, we will see in another 4 or 5 weeks how good they are.
Realized I could try to post pics.
Here's the TI Smartlamp in a temp set-p.
Also, you ever see the custom red edition EZ-cloner?
Hey Dog;Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogznova
I have 2 Procyon100's also. Used them in my mother room to replace 2-400watt MH. They sub for them fine with the addition of a light mover and down firing fan, to help with the light penetration. As much as I like them, I think it's ok to say they will replace 400watt HID...if it's a metal halide. I'm still not sure they match 400watt HPS (I think closer to 250w HPS) but I have not done experiments with them in a bloom situation.
The TI SmartLamps seem to be doing very well in both grow situations I'm using them in. But I need more time to tell you for sure.
it looks like they are just painted red.
(Pssssst...........it's the LEDs)
:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
thank you for starting a smartlamp MJ grow. More comparisons of new products is what we desperately need for our community.:thumbsup:
I wanted to ask if youve noticed any specific things you needed for your mother room w/ the procyons . We'll soon have a small breed then mother room (5 as breed, 2 as mom). Ill get the fan pointed straight down. We got most of it buttoned up, but I figured id ask someone whose got mothers already...lol.
thanks again
db:smokin:
Hey Sns crew,
db, when I first replaced the MH 400's I could tell light penertration would be an issue that's why I went to light mover and fan... and it made a big difference.
I try to keep my moms short and fat, about 3' max. Had to put a few 4'+ plants in there from my greenhouse and their lower growth suffered some. Taller plants might need some supplemental lower light.
IMO if you stay shorter and bushier there are no problems to the Procyon.
BTW I was glad Ryan took care of you (nice guy, I knew he would) now the question is how much better is the new light vs. original. Have you noticed a difference?
Oh, damn old mind of mine. I completly forgot!
There was a difference....I had to cut back the amount of watering they recieved. Maybe 20-25% less water per day.
That's it. (till I remember something else)heehee
Definitely alot brighter.The little difference in the blues is very evident. We noticed having to feed them ALOT less as well.
Also agree on the footprint issue...The church we have growing has a very open growth pattern, I dig it alot...She got the shit cloned outta here...lol:jointsmile:It seems to be able to grow bigger than the others can because of this.
I would say for sure your squat indicas will do best with the LEDs...for now...
Im pretty medicated now too, so ask if I forgot to add..
Not sure where any of that even came from. Think I answered the question in the first 10 words..LOL
whiskeytango
:joint1:
After doing my research a fair bit and getting is touch with someone who has been using them, I just ordered my own. The Smartlamp is $1395, not two grand. The woman I spoke to is very happy with hers, so I am really looking forward to the same results as her without the nasty power bill.
Well that is really hard to believe since the Smartlamp has 2.68 times as many high power leds as the Procyon and even harder to believe cause I have seen them side by side myself. Me thinks someone is a wee bit partial?
Anyway, they have done tests on Experiments with Hydroponics, Aeroponics, and LED Grow Lighting and are now doing some on the Smartlamp and Smartbar so i guess we will know soon what the difference is results is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogznova
How far along are you in your smartlamp tests? Any chance of seeing the final results?Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmac
How is the fact they are not using CREEs or Lexon's are problem if the ones they are using are Hi-Power with the same or better performance?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogznova
[quote=guapogrower]Well that is really hard to believe since the Smartlamp has 2.68 times as many high power leds as the Procyon and even harder to believe cause I have seen them side by side myself. Me thinks someone is a wee bit partial?
It's not that I am partial at all I have two different 100 watt led lights the procyon and the light blaze. The hydro store that I saw the T1 smart lamp at was growing tiny tim tomatoes and having very poor results with it.. So bad they won't even sell one of the lights yet. They were also letting the plants grow right up to the led's and the guy said they were using full strength ferts in a hydro drip system. With that said I think they have no clue how to use the led's myself but these plants looked 10 times worse then SNS first led issue. The leaves were badly spotted and dry giving led's a bad name IMO to all the customers that walk through the door. I went back in a couple of days ago and they are trying some small peppers under it now and the guy said he has done a little homework and claims he is going to get better results this time. I will let ya know. This time I looked at the light for about five minutes. It's a much stronger RED then I first noticed that's why I think it doesn't look as bright. Sorry my bad... But if you took 300 watts of the procyon CREE led's I think you will see what kinda bright I am talking about. It might be that the T1 probloom is so red it might flower our favorite plants better then 300 watts of procyon power. Not sure somebody do a test and let's find out.:thumbsup:
Oldmac,
If a plant uses less water, does that mean it is growing slower?
What store had the Smartlamp? I wuld love to hear their feedback. Not so sure about what you are saying cause the Procyon has 56 hi power leds and the Smartlamp has 150 so it is hard to believe.
QUOTE=Dogznova;1891763]Here is a place that is testing a few different LED light on fruits and veges. Just don't mention your favorite plant in the message form thou (canna). Experiments with Hydroponics, Aeroponics, and LED Grow Lighting
I seen the T1 probloom in a local hydro store also... LOL what a joke... I have a Procyon 100 and for $600 this light is brighter and better. Don't waste your money also you could get 2 of the procyon's for the price of one of the T1 smart lamps.[/QUOTE]
But if you are growing weed seriously (ie, all year round) there is no difference in the advantages for you versus a commercial greenhouse. Actually there is a greater need for the hobby grower using hps as primary lighting cause you run your light more hours than a commercial greenhouse in secondary lighting.
From the calculations I did you would pay these things off in a year or 2 depending how much you pay for power. So even if they are more expensive the hps it would make sense to switch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperman
It is really irrelevant what type of hi-power leds are being used as long as the leds are hi-power?
The Procyon consomption is 56 leds = 125 watts.
Smartlamp 150 leds = 300 watts,
so in a general since that looks like roughly the same per watt rate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogznova
Steve over on greenpinelane.com is doing a smartlamp test on tinytims (about 3 weeks in) -- you should have your store follow his grow lol
We'll know at the end how he does, but so far so good. I think the grow is around 50% more in the smart versus the procyon test steve did, but at 3 weeks too early to say.
sort of...with high power LEDs its about the efficacy of the ratio of photons produced to the amount of wattage used. so 2 different LEDs using the same power may have very different ratingsQuote:
Originally Posted by guapogrower
db:smokin:
Yes Guapogrower I'v seen steve's place that guy knows what he is doing for sure. His results look great. It's just the smart lamp looks so RED and not as bright to me in person.
If anyone is interested in a TI Smartlamp I just put one up for sale on ebay. Bidding ends Friday 7/16/10.
Have to sell for financial reasons.