House Sustains Presidentâ??s Veto on Child Health

WASHINGTON, Oct. 18 â?? The House on Thursday upheld President Bushâ??s veto of a bill to provide health insurance to 10 million children, but Democrats vowed to send it back to him next month, with minor changes, in the belief that they could ultimately prevail.

Despite a multimillion-dollar advertising campaign and intense lobbying by childrenâ??s advocates, supporters of the bill were unable to convert a single House Republican who voted against the bill last month.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/19/wa...th.html?ref=us

HELL YEAH!:thumbsup: Take that cig tax and shove it!!:stoned:

Have a good one!:s4:

God Damnit!

I wanted the House to pass that bill. I want healthcare for my friends and family friends who are just above that level that forces a person to pay for their own healthcare. I'm all for universal healthcare no matter who you are.
Sure, people are going to abuse it and shit all over it, but lots of people actually need healthcare and use it for good reasons, not to abuse it and get free drugs.

As with anything, a few people who abuse the system will ruin it for all.

Fucking party loyalty, think with your heart for godamn once, not just your pocketbook. A 1 cent tax increase on whatever the product is alright in my book, especially since I don't smoke.

I guess Compassion and Republican/Conservative/Fascist are opposite things.

Dave

1 cent.........try from 31 cents to a buck! Not to mention that this bill gives aid for families that DO NOT need it.

I guess supporting yourself and Democratic/Liberal/Socialism are opposite things. :D

Have a good one!:s4:

Im glad it was vetoed. It gave the government way too much power.

Yes, this needed to be vetoed we are already taxed to death! Man, it never stops amazing me at how the answer to all our problems is to spend more money!

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Originally Posted by DemoCommando

.... especially since I don't smoke....

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yep....that's the american way, isn't it? take a small group and vilify it, then you are free to tax it to death or restrict its freedoms or even outlaw it entirely. does this sound familiar?

One of the few things Bush has done right. This just would have been a subsidy for the middle class. They can afford there kids healthcare.

This crass rejection of medical care for children, regardless of income, is just another mean spirited attack on the American people by the Repukes. That paltry amount is about a week and a half of Viet Nam, oops I mean Iraq spending. This is just the repukes way of smacking down the dems. When the '2008' elections come around, people will remember this atrocity and the Repukes will pay dearly, mark my words.

both parties viewpoints are fucked up beyond belief

We are all human. If one person is sick and we have the means, they should be helped. A completely socialist system is definitely not the answer, but healthcare and education should be universally available to all. That's the American dream. To be able to make something of yourself regardless of circumstance.

The K-12 public school system isn't perfect, but it didn't tern us into commies right?? How different would our civilization be without public schools? The smarter our nation is on the whole, the better off it is in the long run. It's a similar situation with healthcare. People can't function as well or at all if they're unhealthy. As it stands now, uninsured people about to die cannot be turned away from lack of insurance, but in most cases the $$ it would cost to prevent this in the first place is far less and not to mention safer.

Of course the tax is up for debate. IMO funds should just be spent differently (less on military and subsidies, more on healthcare and education).

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Originally Posted by delusionsofNORMALity

yep....that's the american way, isn't it? take a small group and vilify it, then you are free to tax it to death or restrict its freedoms or even outlaw it entirely. does this sound familiar?

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The American way is to support your citizens and give liberties to people who can't afford it themselves. But hey, why not restrict health care to needy families and sick children? They're not people because they are poor, right?

I agree completely with Bstheory on the money spending situation, I think that Military spending should be cut dramatically and other spending also ie Prisons, Jails, and other pork barrel spending. Not to say that Prisons and Jails and invaluable institutions are pork barrel. $100+ billion a year on military and pork barrel spending is ridiculous.

I don't consider myself a lefty or righty, I think I'm a moderate. But universal healthcare is a longtime waiting. England, Australia, New Zealand, and many other modern countries have universal healthcare and I 100% agree with their decisions to make that available. But still, here in the USA many people go without proper healthcare when the USA is an incredibly advanced nation and has immense budgets and technology.

A cigarette tax maybe is not the best choice, but is that really the point?

Dave

I really hate the mindset that would approve of vetoing a bill that supports children's--or any person's--healthcare. Just another confirmation that our current ruling party doesn't care for the citizens it governs, not even the smallest or most vulnerable.

People who believe the middle class can afford either health care or health insurance for their kids don't know how pricing in either system works.

Healthcare is expensive.But if you're making $50,000 to $100,000 a year you should be able to afford healthcare for your kids.Either that or cut back on the fancy vacations,fancy cars,boats and all the other material things middle class America pisses its disposable income away on.
I saw an editorial the other day where a couple was making $120,000 a year and they just couldn't make ends meet. Probably more of the college educated idiots that make up middle class.

Let's say a man makes $50,000 gross a year married with 2 kids, the average american household. $50,000 after taxes is about 35000-40000 a year.

The Healthcare for the whole family will cost about $3000 a month or more. Rent will be about a $1000 a month. Food will be about $500 a month. Gas, electric, and misc will about $500 a month. That's $4000 a month on just living not including cars, gas, clothing, fun trips, etc. That's $42000 a year. Who isn't going to go into debt?

Sure, people can save a penny here and there and cut back on little things, but for the most part people just can't AFFORD to live. Take out 36000 a year on healthcare and those people can live very nicely.

And, of course, many people who make a decent living spend it on shit like big screen tv's, yachts and just crap that people don't NEED. But for the most part, many people live at minimum and still can't afford the basic neccessities ie Healthcare even jsut for their children. For the last 20 years, my family could not and still cannot afford healthcare. We needed that bill 20 years ago, where the fuck is it now?

Dave

Never known anyone paying $3000 a month for healthcare with 2 kids.A family of 4 usually spends about $1600. a month thats before the employers contribution. Which is still way too much money for healthcare. I don't see anyway out of these costs other than socialized healthcare.Too many people are getting rich off of healthcare. There has to be some sort of controls put in place.

It is sickening how profitable health insurance companies are when they have incentive bonuses set to encourage rejecting claims. Even middle class Americans can't afford a $30,000 bill to reattach a finger when their insurance company weasels out of it. Watch Sicko (am I really the first to bring Sicko up in this discussion??) and you'll see that even those who can afford insurance still get dicked over. Money shouldn't play a role, or even be stressed about, in your decision for treatment. If this was a small village and someone got sick, they'd see the doctor. This person wouldn't be worried about paying them because the whole village chips in to support the doctor. Sad how f*cking disconnected we are from our fellow man.

most americans complain when they have to pay unpaid bills at the hospital
and they also complain when they have to pay taxes on healthcare

i am 1 of those people that have no insurance cause i cant afford, so when i get sick i should not get taken care of?

and our healthcare is so fucked up it took over 2 years to do a bypass on my father that the artery was over 99% clogged up. 2 fucking years and afew heart attacks. thats the american way, make it more expensive. might i add they had him on 20 different perscription drugs.

how many people have you heard of loosing their familys worth because they had heart disease or something else,

how much do your grandparents spend on medicine?
how many people have you personaly met that have had to sell off their life savings and family property because of health coverage?

and you should not just tax cig smokers.

why not tax alcohol 31 cents a 6 pack

or how about tax milk and eggs and cheese 1 cent apiece

why not spend less on military, fda, our bs education, ect

IF YOU HAVE A HEALTHY AND EDUCATED SOCIETY THEY WILL BE HAPPY TO WORK AND NOT COMPLAIN AS MUCH

What happened to neutrality? You poor Americans hate your own people. Bush polarized you guys so much that it will be your downfall. :(

The answer to this is to obtain a solid economy. Socialized health care is not the answer we just simply do not have the money to support it. It's not about Republican or Democrats, it's about one nation as a whole. Every party seems to think that the answer to our problems is funding another multi billion dollar program that we can't afford! We need to take back the control of this country. We have lost all control and we have given it to corporations who then decide what is best for us, and they decide that by determining what is going to line their pockets more. We really need to get out of this mindset that we allow ourselves to be divided like we are. Until we stop remaining loyal to parties and we start to become loyal to our country we will never be united.

When big brother gets to the root of the problem of high costs in health care then I'll consider extra taxes. Why do beds cost up to $25,000 and surgical tables $75,000?

Another item is where the tax would be coming from. Why not tax that fast food burger and extra 2 cents instead. We are the nation of fat that eventually developes into heart failure, etc.

Right now I can buy a pack of Marlburo for about $3.50 a pack....that's including the 31 cent fed tax and the states 77 cents. 1/3 of the cost is in taxes! GET YOUR MONEY FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE!!!:mad:

Have a good one!:s4:

This is true. I should have re-thought my initial post. Why tax only smokers and nicotine when other items are bought often like Fast Food, Alcohol, and other items. But I believe the real problem is that spending 100 billion a year on military or more and then a Child Health Care bill costing 35 billion over 5 years is too much?

It's a sad day.

Dave

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Originally Posted by killerweed420

Healthcare is expensive.But if you're making $50,000 to $100,000 a year you should be able to afford healthcare for your kids.Either that or cut back on the fancy vacations,fancy cars,boats and all the other material things middle class America pisses its disposable income away on.
I saw an editorial the other day where a couple was making $120,000 a year and they just couldn't make ends meet. Probably more of the college educated idiots that make up middle class.

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My husband grosses 50k/yr. We have 4 kids. We pay roughly 300.00/mo for our family plan health insurance. Our mortgage is 923.00/mo. My husband pays 800.00/mo. child support. I don't get child support from my ex. He's in prison for not paying child support. So my husband has to support not only his children, but my ex's as well. Groceries 400+/mo. I shop at Aldi's and Sav-A-Lot, only going to Wal-Mart and Kroger for items the other stores don't carry. I cut everybody's hair, including my own. I do my own nails. I buy all my clothes and most of my kids' clothes at consignment and thrift stores. We have ONE car, a Ford minivan. Our idea of a vacation is going camping (in tents, not RVs) and this year, we couldn't even afford to do that. Nearly our entire house has been furnished off of Craig's List. I make my own jelly and jam. We don't even order pizza...I make my own. I was lucky enough to find a chest freezer cheap on CraigsList, so now I stock up on things during sales and freeze them. I sew and mend instead of buying new. We eat a LOT of hamburger and oatmeal. Do you have any idea how much it costs to eat healthily? Fresh fruits and veggies are expensive as hell. I even bake our bread when time permits.

More...I don't even buy regular cleaning products. I use peroxide, white vinegar, and baking soda for most things. I recycle everything I can. We've replaced every normal lightbulb in our house with CFLs. We use our fireplace in the winter and close off unused rooms. I compost, and next spring will be growing the vast majority of our produce. I already grow our cooking herbs and our smoke. I make side money from fixing people's PCs, some graphics art work, and figure modeling.

We got married in our backyard. My dress cost 43.90. Our entire wedding didn't go over 500.00.

We don't have ANY credit cards. Our only debts are school loans and our mortgage.

My point? I don't have a frigging boat, a fancy car, or take vacations. I think characterizing people in my family's income bracket as over educated frivolous spenders is painting with too broad a brush. I am lucky that my husband's employer offers a health plan. The millions of un or under-insured people in this country (the vast majority of which are children) are not so fortunate. Working class people (who pay taxes BTW) are the hardest hit, simply because we are seen as making "enough" money to pay for healthcare, thereby not qualifying for any government aid.

I'd like to point you to this article that came out today on living paycheck to paycheck.
None of it was news to me, but I'm glad to see that it's finally being acknowledged.

It's a damn shame that in the U.S., seen worldwide as a prosperous nation and a land of opportunity, our own citizens are still hungry and ill. The system is tragically flawed, and skewed in favor of those who are well-to-do. Hell, even our own soldiers aren't reaping the benefit of our ridiculously high military spending. They don't have sufficient armor, shelter, weapons or HEALTHCARE!!! WTF are we spending that money on, if it's not to take care of our soldiers?

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Originally Posted by bstheory

The smarter our nation is on the whole, the better off it is in the long run. It's a similar situation with healthcare. People can't function as well or at all if they're unhealthy.).

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...just a very off-topic, abstract 2 pennies; I believe the inability of our nations capital to provide reasonable health care for all, is an obscene display of their desire to supress the heart of our nation. I also see our schools teaching very questionable curriculum. I feel like we force feed our children irrelevent information, and in the process, deny them the right to truly be an individual.:wtf:

...and I definately wanna vote for the 'McTaxables'!...:thumbsup:Hell of an idea! I think the bigger problem here is that there are so many scapegoat type distractions for them to play off, it makes it hard to see enough truth to develope a truly educated decision.:stoned: