To prohibit Federal grants to or contracts with Columbia University

To prohibit Federal grants to or contracts with Columbia University -- (DUNCAN HUNTER)

GovTrack.US ^ | Sep 26, 2007 | Duncan Hunter




H.R. 3675: To prohibit Federal grants to or contracts with Columbia University



HR 3675 IH


110th CONGRESS

1st Session

H. R. 3675
To prohibit Federal grants to or contracts with Columbia University.


IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES


September 26, 2007
Mr. HUNTER introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on Education and Labor


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A BILL
To prohibit Federal grants to or contracts with Columbia University.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,


SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `Restore Patriotism to University Campuses Act'.


SEC. 2. FINDINGS.

Congress finds the following:

(1) Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has called for the destruction of the State of Israel, a critical ally of the United States.

(2) In January 2007, commander of Multinational Corps-Iraq, Lt. Gen. Ray Odierno stated that the United States had traced back to Iran serial numbers of weapons captured in Iraq, including rocket-propelled grenades, roadside bombs and Katyusha rockets.

(3) These types of weapons have been used in Iraq to kill and injure members of American, Iraqi, and coalition forces and undermine the nascent Iraqi government.

(4) Despite Iran's support for terrorism, Columbia University extended an invitation to Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to address students and faculty from the University campus.

(5) Columbia University dissolved its long-standing Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) program on campus because of disagreement with United States military policy, and for nearly four decades has not invited the return of any ROTC program to the University campus.

(6) Despite this fact, Columbia University has continued to accept funds made available through ROTC scholarships, while University faculty continue to oppose United States military policies and law.

(7) Through their invitation, Columbia University provided a public, prestigious platform on United States soil from which on September 24, 2007, President Ahmadinejad spoke and defended his wide-ranging support for terrorist activities.


SEC. 3. DENIAL OF FUNDS.

(a) Denial of Funds for Permitting State Terrorist Access to Campus- No funds described in subsection (b)(1) may be provided by contract or by grant to Columbia University of New York, New York, or any subelement of Columbia University.

(b) Covered Funds-

(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), the limitations established in subsection (a) apply to the following:

(A) Any funds made available for the Department of Defense.

(B) Any funds made available for any department or agency for which regular appropriations are made in a Departments of Labor, Health and Human Services, and Education, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act.

(C) Any funds made available for the Department of Homeland Security.

(D) Any funds made available for the National Nuclear Security Administration of the Department of Energy.

(E) Any funds made available for the Department of Transportation.

(F) Any funds made available for the Central Intelligence Agency.

(2) Any Federal funding specified in paragraph (1) that is provided to an institution of higher education, or to an individual, to be available solely for student financial assistance, related administrative costs, or costs associated with attendance, may be used for the purpose for which the funding is provided.

(c) Notice of Determinations- Whenever the head of a Federal department or agency makes a determination under subsection (a) or (b), the head of such department or agency--

(1) shall transmit a notice of the determination to the Secretary of Education, to the head of each other department and agency the funds of which are subject to the determination, and to Congress; and

(2) shall publish in the Federal Register a notice of the determination and the effect of the determination on the eligibility of Columbia University for contracts and grants.


For Immediate Release
September 26, 2007

HUNTER INTRODUCES RESTORING PATRIOTISM TO AMERICAâ??S CAMPUSES ACT

Washington, D.C. â?? U.S. Congressman Duncan Hunter (R-CA), ranking Republican on the House Armed Services Committee, today announced the introduction of the Restoring Patriotism to Americaâ??s Campuses Act. The legislation disqualifies Columbia University from receiving any form of federal assistance following its hosting of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

â??This week, Columbia University President Lee Bollinger ignored public outrage and decided not to withdraw his invitation to Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad,â?� said Congressman Hunter. â??As President Ahmadinejad appeared on the stage provided to him by one of our nationâ??s most prestigious academic institutions, arrogantly questioning Americaâ??s domestic and foreign policies while attempting to justify his own behavior, his agents continued moving roadside bombs and other munitions into Iraq to be used against U.S. troops.

â??By hosting President Ahmadinejad, Columbia University openly insulted the thousands of servicemen and women serving in Iraq, most of whom are direct targets of the munitions that he is sending across the Iraq-Iran border. This insult is compounded by the fact that Columbia University dissolved its Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) program and continues to protest the presence of military recruiters on campus. It is troubling to see that a university such as Columbia, with a reputation as one of Americaâ??s leading universities, is more receptive to Americaâ??s adversaries than it is to the military that protects its right to free speech and assembly.

â??Before President Ahmadinejad appeared at Columbia, I expressed these concerns to Mr. Bollinger and indicated my intention, if the event proceeded as scheduled, to introduce legislation to disqualify the University from any form of federal assistance. I believe this legislation is an appropriate and reasonable response to an institution that welcomes a sponsor of terrorism while saying no to our nationâ??s collegiate military training and recruitment program.

â??While I am a strong proponent of free speech, providing this platform to President Ahmadinejad as he continues sending munitions into Iraq to be used against U.S. troops while also racing to acquire a nuclear weapon, only lends credibility to his actions and continued antics. If Columbia University wants to continue hosting our adversaries while turning its back on our military, then U.S. taxpayers should not be required to support the Universityâ??s programs.â?�

NOTE: Columbia dissolved its ROTC program in 1969 and has maintained its prohibitive policy ever since.

So because Columbia wanted to give students a chance to jab at this guy, they're getting their money taken away? Shit that doesn't suprize me, this country fucking blows.

He spoke at Harvard last year. Why not eliminate any public funding they get as well? And yes, Harvard receives some public funding in its medical research. If this passes it will give the government an excuse to pull funds from any university ideology they feel doesn't fit their agenda. Many Americans oppose the war in Iraq, maybe we can all stop funding that by boycotting our taxes? How about defunding our government because it supports a failed war on drugs? Last thing anyone needs is our government telling us what we can and can not listen too.

that's our government for you..plain and simple..

"those who are not with us are against us"

its so ricidioulous i cant belive they do this shit who cares if they dont have rotc they had conflict b4 they have a legit reason for not hosting them they dont have to give second chances and i hope the goverment realizes that a majority of the students who invited him are getting assistance from the gov so there just gonna half to go to another school

Letting Americans hear from both sides?!?!?

Giving students a chance to take jabs at Ahmadinejad!?!?!

Having the Columbia university president grill him!?!?!

MY GOD! IT'S TREASON IN THE WORST POSSIBLE SENSE!!!!

Now tell me angry American conservatives, honestly clear this up for me...


What harm actually came of letting him speak?

Letting Americans hear words the government doesn't want them to hear? Freedom of information, what a disturbing thought eh?

Glad to see someone allowed him to come and speak his mind. Everybody got to see what a fucking asshole he is. Freedom of speech works people if you allow it to.

It's different for conservatives. Hearing more than one side means they have to decide what they think, and they prefer to be told what to think. That's fine, not all brains are capable of rational thought.

Howdy Y'all,

I appreciate yer comments on this subject. :)

The flaw with this legislation,is that it only targets one university,it should apply to all universities,because there are many universities,where anti-American and subversive activities are going on.

Denying and banning recruiters and the ROTC from campus's,is contray to citizenship in this country,as all American citizens are expected to do their part in defending the country,if called upon. I don't know about the rest of country,but down here in the South,we see such things as bordering on treason..a deriliction of duty,on the part of American citizens who choose to be whiners and complainers and aiders and abbetters of the enemy.

Ahmadinejad is not an American citizen and does not deserve to be accorded the rights and liberties of an American citizen. Despite the bad publicity,ahmadinejad still benefits from giving him a chance to speak in our country,it elevates his prestige elsewhere.

Have a good one ...

PS: the black and white photo,shows ahmadinejad in '79,one of the ring-leaders of the hostage crisis..where he got his start.

All I have to say is BS. We can sit here and judge this guy and claim war with the country of Iran, but we can't let him speak? Man you people really need to wake up! Tell me how is it treason, or aiding and abetting the enemy? What has Iran done to us? I am also concerned about the state of Israel because right now it is being ran by the same kind of people who run this country. Remember Christians "even the most faithful will be deceived". The downfall of this world will be organized religion.

Way to block the 1st amendment, on United States soil, American government!

If I went through...okay, so let me get this straight. If I volunteered for the ROTC program, they wouldn't let me go to Columbia University?

Seriously... what the fuck... so many ignorant people to what this country is about... then they tell us the world is changing, so we should change our belief structure...

THAT IS BS, this isn't a new world, with issues that are conceptually new to man.

why do people allow their personal beliefs to make permanent changes to EVERYONES freedom?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by epxroot

All I have to say is BS. We can sit here and judge this guy and claim war with the country of Iran, but we can't let him speak? Man you people really need to wake up! Tell me how is it treason, or aiding and abetting the enemy? What has Iran done to us? I am also concerned about the state of Israel because right now it is being ran by the same kind of people who run this country. Remember Christians "even the most faithful will be deceived". The downfall of this world will be organized religion.

---

Sure man,we can let him speak,at the UN. He should not be allowed to speak on our soil and not at our universities,where he has allies amongst the far-left students,who are almost always the majority at universities. It is treason because ahmadinejad,was a central role player in the 79 hostage crisis in Iran,he's been an enemy since then,providing a forum for him to speak,is aiding and abbetting his causes.

Iran is currently fighting us in Iraq,by proxey through it Quds forces and that needs to be stopped immediately.

I'm worried about Israel too..Olmert ain't redneck enuff and seems to be vulnerable to the lies of the muslim jihadists,Israel should have someone like Natanyahu in place as their leader-he's redneck enuff to lead em in a time of war.

As far as organized religion causing the downfall of the world,you may be right-Islam is a pernicious and violent religion..they worked hand-in-hand,with hitler and the nazi's and their goals are similar. There's another kind of organized 'religion' that's threatening the world at this time..it's the 'religion' of the God-less Left and secular-progressives.

Have a good one ...

If anyone here is guilty of treason it's you, by placing the interests if israel above those of the US. That's hardly rare, but where does the idea israel is a US ally come from? What have they ever done for us, except take our money and drag us into fights pointless fights. Sounds like an ex of mine. Time to kick the bitch to the curb.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Torog

He should not be allowed to speak on our soil and not at our universities,where he has allies amongst the far-left students,who are almost always the majority at universities.

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Gee, I wonder why..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Torog

Sure man,we can let him speak,at the UN. He should not be allowed to speak on our soil and not at our universities,where he has allies amongst the far-left students,who are almost always the majority at universities. It is treason because ahmadinejad,was a central role player in the 79 hostage crisis in Iran,he's been an enemy since then,providing a forum for him to speak,is aiding and abbetting his causes.

Iran is currently fighting us in Iraq,by proxey through it Quds forces and that needs to be stopped immediately.

I'm worried about Israel too..Olmert ain't redneck enuff and seems to be vulnerable to the lies of the muslim jihadists,Israel should have someone like Natanyahu in place as their leader-he's redneck enuff to lead em in a time of war.

As far as organized religion causing the downfall of the world,you may be right-Islam is a pernicious and violent religion..they worked hand-in-hand,with hitler and the nazi's and their goals are similar. There's another kind of organized 'religion' that's threatening the world at this time..it's the 'religion' of the God-less Left and secular-progressives.

Have a good one ...

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Then I suppose you are in support for charging Bush with treason since he is the one who gave him the visa to come into this country?

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Originally Posted by beachguy in thongs

If I went through...okay, so let me get this straight. If I volunteered for the ROTC program, they wouldn't let me go to Columbia University?

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Not until you got back from iraq.

[quote=Torog]Howdy Y'all,

I appreciate yer comments on this subject. :)

The flaw with this legislation,is that it only targets one university,it should apply to all universities,because there are many universities,where anti-American and subversive activities are going on.

Denying and banning recruiters and the ROTC from campus's,is contray to citizenship in this country,as all American citizens are expected to do their part in defending the country,if called upon. I don't know about the rest of country,but down here in the South,we see such things as bordering on treason..a deriliction of duty,on the part of American citizens who choose to be whiners and complainers and aiders and abbetters of the enemy.

Ahmadinejad is not an American citizen and does not deserve to be accorded the rights and liberties of an American citizen. Despite the bad publicity,ahmadinejad still benefits from giving him a chance to speak in our country,it elevates his prestige elsewhere.

Have a good one ...

PS: the black and white photo,shows ahmadinejad in '79,one of the ring-leaders of the hostage crisis..where he got his start.[/]

As far as I know, they haven't had the draft since around '71', so I say keep all military dictators off campuses. It is a voluntary Army so if you want to volunteer, I'm sure you could find a recruitment station off campus.[/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Torog

As far as organized religion causing the downfall of the world,you may be right-Islam is a pernicious and violent religion..they worked hand-in-hand,with hitler and the nazi's and their goals are similar.

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I have a feeling all I'm going to get in response to this is something along the lines of "but jesus is always right!!!", but here goes...

Organized religion will probably lead to the downfall of the world because believing in religion requires one to abandon such "blasphemous" concepts as reason and logic, concepts that liberals consider extremely important and conservatives tend to avoid. All these right wing religious morons think it's perfectly valid to justify their own or their country's actions and beliefs just by using the bible, which is nothing more than a bunch of glorified fairy tales no more or less credible than the Quran, Torah, Greek mythology, Santa Claus, etc.

Those on the left-wing, however, recognize how incredibly stupid it is to think one of these bunches of fairy tales is more credible than another, considering that each religion, by definition, expects their followers to believe in them without any sort of legitimate rationale and lauds such so-called faith as virtuous. It's not just that there's no empirical evidence and/or logical reasoning, either, it's that these religions, on the one hand, claim that no evidence or reasoning of any sort is necessary to believe, yet they also claim that people who don't adhere to their beliefs due to the lack of evidence or reasoning will be subjected to eternal damnation. Essentially, Christians want you to believe in their religion over other similarly outlandish concepts "just because" (which might be a good enough reason for the brainless conservative right) and claim that you'll rot in hell forever if you don't. You would think that believing something so irrational would be enough to preclude someone from becoming president of their local homeowners association, much less the "leader of the free world", but all the brainwashed religious nuts continue to have their way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Torog

There's another kind of organized 'religion' that's threatening the world at this time..it's the 'religion' of the God-less Left and secular-progressives.

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What a ridiculous statement. First of all, it can hardly be called a religious belief to acknowledge that it's completely idiotic and delusional to believe in a particular set of, unprovable by their own definition, fairy tales over another. I know you bible-thumpers love to claim that believing in a god and not believing in a god involve similar leaps of faith, but they simply don't. Believing in a god first requires you to accept as unequivocally true something for which it is impossible to bring forth any sort of evidence, then it requires you to believe that those who don't adhere will be punished for eternity. Not believing in a god simply requires the common sense to realize how dumb it is to believe any religion that claims to know the unknowable and calls for the persecution of non-believers, Unfortunately you religious nuts tend to lack, and in fact belittle, this sort of common sense.

Another thing: you claim that the godless left and secular progressives are threatening the world at this time, yet the country and government that you've been railing against, Iran, represents the complete opposite end of the spectrum. The truth is that the religious Right in this country is MUCH more similar ideologically to the Arab governments like Iran than is the Left. Whereas conservatives, in a fashion similar to the way Muslim governments use Islam, often talk about how this country was supposedly based on Christianity and should make decisions according to what the bible says, liberals instead promote the use of logic, reason, and common sense to make decisions. Whereas conservatives are all about trying to "protect" us as a nation from (according to them) morally corrupt things like marijuana, gambling, and pornography, liberals are fine with letting individuals make their own decisions about what is and what isn't morally acceptable, as long as it isn't hurting someone else. It's hilarious, as well as sad and frightening, that all these idiots from the religious right can't see how believing in and basing government decisions on one group of supposedly holy stories, like Iran with the Quran, is really not that different than basing them on another, like conservatives want to do with the bible. Iran is really just an extreme form of what the conservatives want the U.S. to become in terms of religiously-based tyranny.

Howdy KevinFinnerty,

Boy Howdy ! I wish that I could see the look on yer face..:eek:when ya cross over to the Other Side and ya git met by a couple of dead relatives and an angel or 2..and ya suddenly realize that the Bible wasn't just a fairy tale..lol. :)

My belief in God and Jesus,won't be what leads to the downfall of the world,it will be the muslim who believes that he will be rewarded with 72 virgins,for murdering non-muslims..and folks like you,who are eager to excuse any atrocity committed by them,for the glory of Allah.

The last thing that I associate with liberals,is common sense..and I ain't too sure about logic and reason,either. Yer trying to use the Christian 'taliban' argument,when in fact it's liberals whom seek to usher in a brutal,oppressive,socialistic and wholly secular,goverment that would crack-down on folks of faith and attempt to ban all religion. Btw,there are plenty of liberal Christians on yer side,as well as liberal Jews,that are in the process of re-writing God's Words to be politically -correct..such as rejecting God's warning about homosexuality and women preachers,some who are gay themselves.

You act as though atheists are a majority in this country,thankfully-they ain't..and alot of em,are too lazy to git out and vote,whereas we have a conservative Christian voting block that is gonna give some candidate a huge number of votes as long as they are pro-life,anti-gay marriage,pro-gun and pro-America and pro-family,as well as believeing that Peace can only be secured through strength.

Have a good one ...

[quote=medicinal]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Torog

Howdy Y'all,

I appreciate yer comments on this subject. :)

The flaw with this legislation,is that it only targets one university,it should apply to all universities,because there are many universities,where anti-American and subversive activities are going on.

Denying and banning recruiters and the ROTC from campus's,is contray to citizenship in this country,as all American citizens are expected to do their part in defending the country,if called upon. I don't know about the rest of country,but down here in the South,we see such things as bordering on treason..a deriliction of duty,on the part of American citizens who choose to be whiners and complainers and aiders and abbetters of the enemy.

Ahmadinejad is not an American citizen and does not deserve to be accorded the rights and liberties of an American citizen. Despite the bad publicity,ahmadinejad still benefits from giving him a chance to speak in our country,it elevates his prestige elsewhere.

Have a good one ...

PS: the black and white photo,shows ahmadinejad in '79,one of the ring-leaders of the hostage crisis..where he got his start.[/]

As far as I know, they haven't had the draft since around '71', so I say keep all military dictators off campuses. It is a voluntary Army so if you want to volunteer, I'm sure you could find a recruitment station off campus.[/

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Howdy medicinal,

If universities want to refuse to participate in the duties of being a citizen,then they should lose their federal funding and their alumini should cut off all donations too..many of whom,are veterans. Despite liberals efforts to the contrary,there are still students who do believe in serving their country and they should not have to be required to go off campus to find a military recruiter.

You act as though you think that universities should be declared to be like a foreign embassy,where when ya walk through their doors,it's considered to not be American soil.

I dang sure don't want my tax dollars to support those who ask "What has my country done for me ,today ?"

Have a good one ...

[quote=Torog]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by medicinal

Howdy medicinal,

If universities want to refuse to participate in the duties of being a citizen,then they should lose their federal funding and their alumini should cut off all donations too..many of whom,are veterans. Despite liberals efforts to the contrary,there are still students who do believe in serving their country and they should not have to be required to go off campus to find a military recruiter.

You act as though you think that universities should be declared to be like a foreign embassy,where when ya walk through their doors,it's considered to not be American soil.

I dang sure don't want my tax dollars to support those who ask "What has my country done for me ,today ?"

Have a good one ...

---

Ha! Good lord man, as an advocate of the defence of a nation supportive of free-speech, this is utter hypocricy! You insist that military recruiters should be able to come on campus and try to convince us to fight in wars initiated by the current administration. That you seem to equate loyalty to administrative decisions with patriotism is rediculous enough, but then you turn around and say we should ban the student's right to hear arguments that counter the pro-war propoganda.

I used to respect your opinions Torog, even if I disagree'd with them, but now you're blatant bias in favor of the right has become so absurd I can no longer respect your cantor. Everything you've advocated in this thread indicates that somebody speeking against the war is conspiring with liberals and terrorists and should therefor be disallowed; then you turn around and say anybody speeking in favor of war and military recruitment should have every right to propogandize students! It's unbelievable, everything you've been saying has just been rationalizations for why right-wing propoganda needs to be everywhere and left-wing propoganda should be banned. Free speech my ass, you just advocate indoctination of one strict line of thinking; and that is the totalitarian dictatorship mentality we should all fear, a lot more than ahmadinejad.

I am just curious Torog what you believe will allow you to enter the Kingdom of God? Your post's in this thread sound like you may preach a lot of hate too anyone who is not a Christian. Being a Christian or a member of any other religious group does not earn you free passes into heaven.

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Originally Posted by epxroot

I am just curious Torog what you believe will allow you to enter the Kingdom of God? Your post's in this thread sound like you may preach a lot of hate too anyone who is not a Christian. Being a Christian or a member of any other religious group does not earn you free passes into heaven.

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OMFG. One word. Owned. Seriously, in the best way too.

Wait, you didn't get the memo? Oh my bad. Torog speaks directly to God, I thought that was obvious? :S2:

[quote=Gandalf_The_Grey]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Torog

Ha! Good lord man, as an advocate of the defence of a nation supportive of free-speech, this is utter hypocricy! You insist that military recruiters should be able to come on campus and try to convince us to fight in wars initiated by the current administration. That you seem to equate loyalty to administrative decisions with patriotism is rediculous enough, but then you turn around and say we should ban the student's right to hear arguments that counter the pro-war propoganda.

I used to respect your opinions Torog, even if I disagree'd with them, but now you're blatant bias in favor of the right has become so absurd I can no longer respect your cantor. Everything you've advocated in this thread indicates that somebody speeking against the war is conspiring with liberals and terrorists and should therefor be disallowed; then you turn around and say anybody speeking in favor of war and military recruitment should have every right to propogandize students! It's unbelievable, everything you've been saying has just been rationalizations for why right-wing propoganda needs to be everywhere and left-wing propoganda should be banned. Free speech my ass, you just advocate indoctination of one strict line of thinking; and that is the totalitarian dictatorship mentality we should all fear, a lot more than ahmadinejad.

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Howdy Gandalf,

I don't think that answering the call of duty,is propaganda..defending this country and our allies,is not propaganda..it's the right thing to do.

Do you not agree,that freedom ain't free..that it requires constant vigilance to retain and keep our freedoms ? Are you in agreement with councilman Sandoval in San Francisco,that we should eliminate our military ? Do you think that it's only Americans whom have hearts of evil ? That no evil would be committed in the world,if it were not for America's foreign policy ? Do you even acknowledge that evil exists ? Maybe yer one of them that believes nothing bad would ever happen,if only we all had perfect childhoods ?

Left-wing propaganda,is wholly invested in defeat and counter to all traditional values that have stood the test of time and made this country the greatest country in the history of Man.

Have a good one ...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Torog

Howdy KevinFinnerty,

Boy Howdy ! I wish that I could see the look on yer face..:eek:when ya cross over to the Other Side and ya git met by a couple of dead relatives and an angel or 2..and ya suddenly realize that the Bible wasn't just a fairy tale..lol. :)

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You seem to be confused. How am I gonna go to heaven when I adamantly don't believe in the bible? I was under the impression that if you don't buy into that jesus shit, you burn, no matter how perfectly altruistically and morally correct you live your life. Are you saying otherwise? Because that would be pretty blaspehmous. Every "good" Christian knows that the Gandhis of the world are either rotting in hell right or will be as soon as they die.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Torog

My belief in God and Jesus,won't be what leads to the downfall of the world,it will be the muslim who believes that he will be rewarded with 72 virgins,for murdering non-muslims..and folks like you,who are eager to excuse any atrocity committed by them,for the glory of Allah.

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Suggesting that the 72 virgin thing is an accurate representation of Islam is like somebody saying that the numerous neonazi-type groups who use Christianity to promote their beliefs are accurately representing Christianity. I'm not excusing atrocities caused by Muslims who use their religion to justify their actions, I'm just saying that shouldn't be an excuse to condemn all Muslims any more than atrocities caused by Christians (or Jews, etc.) who use their religion to justify their actions should be an excuse to condemn all Christians. Goodness knows there are other reasons to condemn religion as a whole as idiotic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Torog

The last thing that I associate with liberals,is common sense..and I ain't too sure about logic and reason,either. Yer trying to use the Christian 'taliban' argument,when in fact it's liberals whom seek to usher in a brutal,oppressive,socialistic and wholly secular,goverment that would crack-down on folks of faith and attempt to ban all religion. Btw,there are plenty of liberal Christians on yer side,as well as liberal Jews,that are in the process of re-writing God's Words to be politically -correct..such as rejecting God's warning about homosexuality and women preachers,some who are gay themselves.

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If you don't respond to anything else I write, answer me this: wouldn't common sense say that Christianity is no more credible than Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc., and that it's stupid to believe one religion over another? If you can't honestly answer yes to this question than you're obviously too far gone to make any sort of debate worthwhile. What liberals are trying to crack down on is the government using religion as the basis making decisions and policies, something that Republicans and the Iranian government clearly both have no problems with. You conservatives try to impose on the rest of us morals that have no justification other than that they were found in some random book that you claim was written by a higher power, then you're actually surprised when people take issue with them. One other thing, you getting all worked up about liberals rewriting your precious bible is hilarious considering "God's Words" were rewritten PLENTY of times centuries before you were even born (wait, or was it actually God who was rewriting it those times, but not this time?).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Torog

You act as though atheists are a majority in this country,thankfully-they ain't..and alot of em,are too lazy to git out and vote,whereas we have a conservative Christian voting block that is gonna give some candidate a huge number of votes as long as they are pro-life,anti-gay marriage,pro-gun and pro-America and pro-family,as well as believeing that Peace can only be secured through strength.

Have a good one ...

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Two hundred years ago abolitionists weren't a majority in this country, so I guess you would have said to yourself, "gee, I'll just believe what the majority is believing, it must be right." See, this is a perfect illustration of why idiots like yourself continue to believe in Christianity. You think "well, my parent's and their parents and their parents all believed it, so it must be true" which, needless to say, is a stupid reason to believe in something if everything else points to the contrary.

Anybody who supports this bill is an idiot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KevinFinnerty

One other thing, you getting all worked up about liberals rewriting your precious bible is hilarious considering "God's Words" were rewritten PLENTY of times centuries before you were even born (wait, or was it actually God who was rewriting it those times, but not this time?).

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BINGO! Common sense ftw.. it is funny to watch him try to argue his point though, check out the best reply he has for having common sense:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Torog

The last thing that I associate with liberals,is common sense..and I ain't too sure about logic and reason,either.

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lmao

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Torog

You act as though atheists are a majority in this country,thankfully-they ain't..and alot of em,are too lazy to git out and vote,whereas we have a conservative Christian voting block that is gonna give some candidate a huge number of votes as long as they are pro-life,anti-gay marriage,pro-gun and pro-America and pro-family,as well as believeing that Peace can only be secured through strength.

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And it's sad that we will never know their REAL beliefs. Haha, I bet you still can't see how (any/every) religion ruins societies. These people have to believe that way if they have any hope of being elected, because this overwhelming 'Christian vote' of followers who can't make up their own mind..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jakez

BINGO! Common sense ftw.. it is funny to watch him try to argue his point though, check out the best reply he has for having common sense:

lmao

And it's sad that we will never know their REAL beliefs. Haha, I bet you still can't see how (any/every) religion ruins societies. These people have to believe that way if they have any hope of being elected, because this overwhelming 'Christian vote' of followers who can't make up their own mind..

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amen.

Torog, I'm still waiting for a response to my post. What's the point of starting all these threads if you're just going to run away when shown to be completely wrong?