Finding myself leaning more and more RIGHT

I would consider myself pretty left on the political spectrum, concerning American politics here.

Against the Iraq war, I was for abortions, for gay marriages (still am, I'll elaborate on that later though), thought the war on terror was all a bunch of fearmongering, etc.

But lately, I think I see more of the threat posed by radical Islam and terror and how important it is for the US to STAY in Iraq until the job is done (the job being a stable Iraqi government with control). On top of that, I want to see us march right into Iran if they do not stop with their nuclear program and take it the fuck out. I support a tougher stance on terrorism and I don't see the Democrats as being strong enough of a party to handle the threat. I don't think most liberals see it either.

I don't like the current Republicans and I'm still extremely against any and all religions but I like their stance on terror and to put it frankly, it seems like they have the balls to deal with this type of shit over the Democrats. The Democrats are weak and get nothing accomplished.

I guess more and more I'm starting to appreciate Western civilization and want to see to its preservation.

Possibly considering switching parties come '08. My only real gripe with the Republicans is they cater too much to the religious right. And I simply cannot stand nor tolerate religion.

Oh well I'm young and naive so let me have it. ;)

Come to the Dark Side Luke................:vader1:

Have a good one!:s4:

sounds like you are neither a republican or a democrat. Have you looked into any other parties. You sound somewhat libertarian minus the Iraq thing. Just remember, you don't have to be Democrat or Republican.

fighting a war for another country is about the stupidest fucking idea ever..I followed along for a while, until I realized that the purposes I had been told were for the war were invalid..that made me stop trusting what my government says, and even more now, because that same government is lying and blocking America from one of the safest alternative medicines available..

More soldiers have died in Iraq than in 9/11...all we can do is just hope that our airport's are secure enough to keep that from happening again, and fighting a war over there thousands upon thousands of miles away makes absolutely no sense, whenever I see people in turbans driving tankers full of about 10,000 gallons of gasoline...I don't see how a war in Iraq can save me from someone who may be wanting to drive that truck into a building, or a mall..

So just fight in Iraq for all eternity, and we're safe? that's pretty stupid...until the job's done will be forever, it's already been thousands of years and it will be thousands more, they HATE each other, and they HATE us just as much for being in their country involved in their shitstorm

I don't think he's saying fighting in Iraq for eternity will bring us complete safety. He's just rationalizing that cutting and running will leave us way behind where we were, and jeopardize the security we're trying to bring to that region. I'd have to agree...and I also am strangely the same. I was so far left I should have been living in France, but now I'm not so quick to dismiss terrorism...not that I ever was. I just think people need to hop off that leftist "my government is lying to me so i shouldnt believe everything..leave Iran and Iraq alone" bandwagon.

It's going to be real unfortunate when some world war breaks out over the Iranians...and it will happen if we don't try to solve the situation right away.
And sure, it's not going to be quick or easy. I'm pretty sure Russia and China will side with the Iranians....and then, we will have a world war. Above all, I hate how people think Bush is just jumping into Iran to spread his freedom and democracy principles. Come on people!!! He'd be going in to stop that crazy asshole from doing something unimaginable, like say nuking Israel.:wtf:

welcome to that huge majority of americans that have been alienated by the posing and rhetoric of the fools in our political system. while the two major parties and their devoted followers have been spewing hatred at each other, the rest of us have just been trying to survive - and those jerks in the capitol ain't makin' it easy.

don't worry, you're not becoming a war mongering reactionary. you've just come to the realization that your good old-fashioned liberal values have been twisted by the left's political machine into a perversion of our original aims. you've seen through the lies and false promises to the cowardly heart of the nouveau-left and, like many before you, you've found them to be lacking.

don't worry, you're still a liberal. you've just become a rational liberal. you understand that there is a price to pay for the changes we need.
:hippy:

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Originally Posted by Captain Jack Sparrow

But lately, I think I see more of the threat posed by radical Islam and terror and how important it is for the US to STAY in Iraq until the job is done (the job being a stable Iraqi government with control). On top of that, I want to see us march right into Iran if they do not stop with their nuclear program and take it the fuck out. I support a tougher stance on terrorism and I don't see the Democrats as being strong enough of a party to handle the threat. I don't think most liberals see it either.

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The US government has already admitted that Al Queda was on its knees after we invaded Afghanistan. They were losing people left and right and had virtually no organization anymore.

Then we invaded Iraq. That gave Al Queda a new rallying call. And when the Iraqi government fell, it left a power vacuum, and Al Queda swept in to fill it up.

In other words, the Iraq war has actually made the world MORE dangerous because it gave groups like Al Queda a great recruiting tool to say "See, this is what the US is really like".

Also, before our invasion, Iraq had NOTHING to do with Al Queda or Bin Laden. Hussein and Bin Laden had opposite views on just about everything, especially religion. If you don't believe me, then read about when Iraq invaded Kuwait - Bin Laden went to the Saudi government and said "Hey, my troops and I can take care of Iraq". In other words, Bin Laden wanted to go kick Saddam Hussein's ass!

Violence breeds more violence. This is what people on the right don't seem to understand. How can the US even think about being a "beacon of freedom and democracy" with Gauntanamo and Abu Gharaib (sp??) incidents of torture and misconduct. The US govt spying on it's own citizens. People being imprisoned indefinitely w/o a trial or proper defense.

Invade Iran? We better not. The US and Israel are responsible for more violence then Iran has been. Furthermore, we don't have anything close to the military numbers we'd need. If we want Iran to stop its nuclear program, then we should also expect the US and Israel to dump their nukes as well, otherwise we're just a bunch of hypocrites.

I ask all the people who are beating the drums of war with Iran: Haven't we learned anything from Iraq? It's been an utter failure, brought on by lies, and I hope Bush and Cheney are dragged before an international tribunal for war crimes because they are single-handedly responsible for the deaths of 100,000+ Iraqis and thousands of Americans.

if you need help, i can push you back to balance? :stoned:

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Originally Posted by deadfan420

...In other words, the Iraq war has actually made the world MORE dangerous because it gave groups like Al Queda a great recruiting tool to say "See, this is what the US is really like"...


Violence breeds more violence. This is what people on the right don't seem to understand.


I ask all the people who are beating the drums of war with Iran: Haven't we learned anything from Iraq? It's been an utter failure, brought on by lies, and I hope Bush and Cheney are dragged before an international tribunal for war crimes because they are single-handedly responsible for the deaths of 100,000+ Iraqis and thousands of Americans.

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You are right about the first one. The invasion added to Al Qaeda's cause, and was a rallying call for insurgents.
But don't you think that sentiment had existed long before-hand? I'd argue it did.

People on the right understand that violence breeds violence. But they also have what I will phrase as a "safe rather than sorry" stance when it comes to danger to the nation or other nations or ...heaven forbid, economic interest(but lets be honest, all sides of the political spectrum are affected that way)
What I mean is that they have the standpoint that if there is a threat, its best to confront it and eliminate it, before it strikes mass damage, casualties, etc. They don't sugarcoat their thoughts with hopes for diplomacy each time(though i'll agree they do settle some things diplomatically)...they see through the bullshit on some specific cases where dialogue just isn't going to cut it. And to me, that saves time...Why let a man who could cause mass amounts of harm continue to build his arsenal while you send ambassadors to trade notes at a board table. Sometimes, it just doesn't work, and the threat grows bigger. I don't know why, but as I posted a few days ago on here, I find myself wanting to be on the safer side, as I think diplomacy will do nothing but hurt in the situation with Iran.

If I've learned anything from Iraq relating to the new threat of invasion in Iran, its that and Iran are different. The shit happening now is eerily reminiscent of the time leading up to the Iraq invasion, its true. Only this time I'm confident they have a cause for it. Too bad they cried wolf already..

Man, you honestly want them to be tried in a tribunal? You know that won't happen right...as they basically run their own terms. For a country to go to the international criminal tribunal, for war crimes lets say...that country has to agree to it. Never gonna happen.

I know exactly what you mean hun. Im technically republican but I have liberal social views some times. Like i'm for gay rights and abortion. I'm against religion. But on the rest of the things i'm a republican.

So pretty much i'm libertarian.

Personally I think the republican and democrat labels are bullshit. By the way, Captain Jack Sparrow, have you been watching a lot of news lately? Just curious.

Oh, bullnuggets, the war will be on when the elites decide to bring it. All the crying done by liberals will do nothing to stop the war machine. The only way to stop the insanity is for 5-10 million people to surround Washington and demand justice. Will never happen. So pick your escape route and save up some food and ammo, the war machine marches on and eventually it will be on our shores.