"We Muslims Living in America are getting sick of this crap

Hugh Fitzgerald: "We Muslims living in America are getting sick of this crap"
jihadwatch ^ | jan 21 | Hugh Fitzgerald


Fitzgerald: "We Muslims living in America are getting sick of this crap"
Jihad Watch Vice President Hugh Fitzgerald reflects on recent Muslim complaints that they are unfairly suspected and discriminated against: "We Muslims living in America are getting sick of this crap."

There is no Muslim contribution to the American polity, not to the entire edifice of the American political system. The Shari'a flatly contradicts, in every way, the American Constitution. The economic views encouraged by Islam -- a combination of relying on booty from the conquered Unbelievers (attacked purely for that booty, beginning with the inoffensive Jewish farmers of the Khaybar Oasis), and on jizyah (or disguised "jizyah" as in the Bumiputra system in Malaysia, or the way in which non-oil Muslim states such as Egypt have managed to extract from the endlessly naive Western world tens of billions of dollars in Infidel aid, repaid not with gratitude but with ratcheting up the level of hate), and with a heavy dose of inshallah-fatalism, is completely the opposite of American notions of self-reliance, individual effort and achievement.
In social matters, Islam is as absurdly reactionary -- "honor" killings, the oppression of women, the Total Reliance on the Authority of Books Concocted between the 7th and 9th centuries (Qur'an, Hadith, and Sira) possibly in Arabia, possibly to its north, in present-day Iraq, Syria, or Jordan. which, as an ideal to be encouraged, even if it is hardly the whole story -- as it is possible to be. That some people who claim to be Muslims still function in the modern world is a tribute only to their ability to ignore much of Islam.

In intellectual matters, no sculpture, no painting of living creatures save for Mughal miniatures, that were despite, not because, of Islam, no music (hence the attacks in Algeria on those singers of Rai), no real science (weapons technology -- ah, that's a different thing).

And yet this primitive system, simply by dint of the utter foolishness, sentimentality, mental laziness, and above all ingratitude of the inhabitants of the Western world for what they have inherited as a civilizational legacy, could by force of numbers -- sheer overbreeding -- and Daâ??wa appeals to the psychically and economically marginal (always ready to try on anything that may Explain The Universe and Get Back at The System) -â?? conceivably prevail.

Look at how, in the last two days, all sorts of newspapers have fallen all over themselves with pictures of Muslims sweetly celebrated the Eid al-Adha -- in North Dakota, for god's sake, not to mention elsewhere. The word seems to have gone out to the American press: Make Islam Look Good.

And since what is Bad about Islam are the actual tenets, and those, assimilated into the brain, cannot be shown in pictures -- though the murderous results of Islamic beliefs, and the results, too, of Islamic practices over 1400 years, can be seen in the reduction of ancient Mesopotamia, and its once-entirely non-Muslim population to what is now an almost entirely Muslim population -- like what you see? would you like America or Europe to turn into that, over time? it won't take 1400 years, but less than a century to throw out all of Western civilization because "we all want the same thing" and "we all share the faith of Abraham, Sarah, and Hagar" and...oh good god, fill in the rest of the nonsense yourself, culled from the paper, or some idiotic NPR news program, or something on the Lord Haw Haw broadcasts from the BBC, where the likes of Judy Swallow or Robin Lustig, marionetted from above by the sinister John Simpson (#3 at Bush House), have created a special BBC house blend of anti-Americanism, antisemitism, and therefore, of course, islamophilia, that has by degrees helped to mentally disarm tens of millions of listeners.

No, it is we Infidels who are getting "sick of this crap."

"No, it is we Infidels who are getting "sick of this crap." "

That's a big 10-4 ! I wouldn't trust any muslim at this point in history..nor as far as I could throw one-which ain't very far-with my bad back.

^racist redneck

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Originally Posted by juggalo420

^racist redneck

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Islam is not a race, it's a religion, and Torog is not a redneck, he's a long haired country boy. Only two words and you managed to be wrong with both of them.

Toker

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Originally Posted by juggalo420

^racist redneck

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Howdy juggalo420,

That may well be-however,at least I know who the enemies of Freedom and civilization are..and right now-that's Islam and muslims. Meanwhile,you'll still be sticking to your bleedin heart,political correctness crap-when a muslim will come up to you-and slash your throat..with a smile..and a Allah Akbar !

You can live under sharia law-if you want and pay the infidel tax-but not me..I will fight to the last drop of my blood-to stop the muslim horde..as the Christian Crusaders did once before-when civilization was in danger of extinction,at the hands of the muslim horde.

Have a good one...Torog :D

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Originally Posted by Libertarian Toker

Islam is not a race, it's a religion, and Torog is not a redneck, he's a long haired country boy. Only two words and you managed to be wrong with both of them.

Toker

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Howdy LT,

Thanx for them kind words..

Say-did ya git my last pm to ya over at Marihemp ?

Have a good one...Torog :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by juggalo420

^racist redneck

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why is it that he dont see that remark is like the equivelent of'calling him a nigger and meaning it not like "my nigga" as in homey
and is as racist as any remark there is out there
(and no im calling you that dude so chill before ya get all riled up on me)
racism is bullshit
he said as much its crap to be racist
so please stop practicing it and maybe ,just fucking maybe it one day die out.


that is what you want is it not to have no niggers and crackers and towel heads and spick and gooks and whatever stupid fucking name people name those of other colors
we are all just human beings that are simply different by culture and looks and traits and its all DNA,none is better by color or race,
NONE


and that my friend is just my opinion
peace

Yes I did get the PM. I tried to write one back and it got erased on me and I didn't feel like doing it agian just then. I hate it when that happens. I'll get it in the mail monday or tuesday.

Toker

Torog, youve done it again.. and 'it' is nothing to be proud of :(

typical american view on islam...its nothing to be proud of...the only enemies of Freedom and civilization is america thinking they can fucking do what they want well they can't an soon enough america will pay the price for being a bully...an too right in my view!..god save REAL americans when korea comes to kick your ass!

"god save REAL americans when korea comes to kick your ass!"

How are they going to "come" kick our ass? Are they flying, or taking a boat trip. Do you really believe NK would stand any kind of a chance against the US military? If you do, then you might want to re think that for a bit. NK would not last any longer then Iraq did. We would walk over them just as easy as we did Iraq's military. What is it about NK that makes you think they can make the US pay a price? Are their troops and pilots battle hardened? Are they well equiped? Well funded? Do they have the ability to project their power to anywhere in the world? What may be right and wrong for the US is not importent in this claim of NK kicking the USA's ass. What is importent is the falseness of the statement you have made and what it means that you would do that. Deny it all you want, but what that statement by you says is that you don't care for the truth, you just hate the US. The truth is that the US would kick NK's ass rather quickly. Why do you lie to yourself? Does it do something for your ego to bash the US with lie's to yourself?

Toker

LT, why are you sticking up for Torog's blatant racism/prejudism/whatever-the-fuck-you-wanna-call-it?

This is by far, Torog, the worst thing you have posted on this site. I used to think we just disagreed but were both intelligent, respectful people. I'm sorry to say my view has diminished a little.... :mad:

I'm with you on this one, F L E S H

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GHoSToKeR

LT, why are you sticking up for Torog's blatant racism/prejudism/whatever-the-fuck-you-wanna-call-it?

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i assume you think thinks its ok to call folks who live in certian parts
rednecks, and think that aint racist remark?
its as racist as anybody using the name nigger to describe a black man
when you use it as that wanna be a freak uses it

screw all them that think that way and it got shit to do with ya skin
its ya dam attitude towards anyone not your color,
you dont like whites,,,dont expect them like you

so i guess only whites can be racist in your eyes?
this reverse racism is just approved by too many]
oh well back to my jiont

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GHoSToKeR

LT, why are you sticking up for Torog's blatant racism/prejudism/whatever-the-fuck-you-wanna-call-it?

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Why do you guys hate Torog? People say all kinds of wierd crap about him, and you say nothing except why do I stick up for him. Why do you stick up for people that declare war on democracy? I guess it is OK to be prejudice, just not against muslims, right? I suggest you do away with your own prejudice before condeming another for theirs. Unfortunetly islam is a violent religion, and they do spread hate, at their congragations. Not all of them do, but quite a few do. Yes, other religions do it also. Tell me Ghost, what good does it do to post a prejudice saying to protest a prejudice article? Hate will not cure hate.

Torog is a friend. I don't care much for the article, and I was actualy going to say something about it to him, but changed my mind after the redneck remark. I don't have to hate him, or bash him, to dissagree with him. Same as with anyone, on any subject. I don't hate because someone thinks different then I do.

Toker

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Originally Posted by Libertarian Toker

Unfortunetly islam is a violent religion

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Let's assume for a minute that you're right. But isn't Christianty also a violent religion? It works both ways. You'd be surprise at how many people think it's ok to kill muslims because 'it says so' in the Bible, when God tells the Jews that it's ok for them to kill the Philistines and what not.

Bu the fact remains, Islam is as violent as Christianity, or rather potentially violent. It is violent in the hands of those who misinterpret it the exact same way Christianity is.

Anyone remember Timothy McVeigh?

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Originally Posted by F L E S H

This is by far, Torog, the worst thing you have posted on this site. I used to think we just disagreed but were both intelligent, respectful people. I'm sorry to say my view has diminished a little.... :mad:

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Howdy FLESH,

I re-read the article,and what it says is essentially true..I realize,that it's hard for you to grasp the reality of this situation-because to do so,would acknowledge that the situation is more dire-than you realized. I have experienced sharia law first hand-in Saudi,and it wasn't pretty-especially when it's backed up by machine-gun toting,ceremonial dagger and sword carrying muslim guards. You do not seem to understand the depth of hatred towards us infidels from the muslims,your liberal psyche believes that you must make friends with everyone - and ignore the crimes that they've committed-you seek to appease the terrorists and muslims,in the hope that they will be your friends and grant you mercy.

As for Christians being violent,the only ones having to commit violence,are those who are under attack from muslims..like the Christians in Sudan and Darfur. 99 percent of all Christians are peaceful and seek to help others-not strap on a bomb belt and kill those who refuse to convert.

My little sister,is a Christian missionary and she has done nothing but help folks-there ain't a violent bone in her body..to claim that Christians are as violent as muslims,is not true..and offends me.

To call me a rascist redneck-is offensive as well-especially when the democrappers are being as rascist as possible,towards Condi and Powell,whose achievements should be lauded and used as role models by Black teachers for their Black students. I'm very proud of their achievements as individuals and American citizens..how can that be-if I'm a rascist redneck ?

Have a good one...Torog

[QUOTE=F L E S H]Let's assume for a minute that you're right.QUOTE]

I am right, islam is violent. Just because christians are also, or have been in the past, doesn't excuse muslims for their campain of violent acts now, as you seem to think it does. If an apple is red, and I say it is a red apple, is that wrong? No, not all muslims are violent, but the religion does produce the hate that starts the violence at it's congragations and schools. Ignoring the truth won't make it go away. Your not only excusing muslims, your hiding from the violent nature of that religion by trying to change the focos to christian violence. You can not deny that islam breeds violence. If you do deny that, then you must deny that christians breed violence also. I don't think it is ok for christians to kill muslims, or muslims to kill christians. It's maddness if you ask me. Both would wipe the other from the planet because of a god that is not even real. To me that is rather stupid. You may need to read up on Mo. He was a theaf and a terrorist. He is the one that inspires the terror and violence. Tell me Flesh, were does Jesus inspire others to hate?

Toker

There are some muslims in classes of mine, decent people.
Islam extremists are no better, or worse, than christian extremists. Maybe they have some other reason to be pissed, like that we destroyed/corrupted their holy land.
Example: http://newstandardnews.net/content/?...tem&itemid=174
http://www.islamonline.net/askabouti...uestionID=4429
http://www.islamonline.net/askabouti...uestionID=3802

We can agree that the "racist redneck" comment was pushing it since we can't blame the entire state of Texas for Torogs post, my friend Juggalo was probably just tripping, in reality hes a nice person...sort of.

The article aside another thing I would like to bring up is:

Quote:

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your liberal psyche believes that you must make friends with everyone

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Why the hell is it that anybody who has any disagreement with what you post is dubbed by you simply a liberal? Time and time again I have wondered, and believe even asked you. Somebody disagrees with you, there is nothing indicative of their other political views but because they disagreed with you automatically they are liberal, communist, socialist. What exactly is wrong with liberalism or socialism to begin with? (I wont get into communist since it was never fully established.)

Torog:
First and foremost, I never called anyone a racist redneck, because I'm not the insulting type. Second, don't assume you know anything about my liberal psyche. I don't feel the need the make friends with everyone. I feel the need to treat everybody equally initially and build relationships. I feel the need to correct people when they make gross generalizations about cultures they don't understand.

You say you've been to Saudi Arabia, and I'll tell you this: the only thing worse than making assumptions about people you've never met is making assumptions about people you've barely met. I many muslim friends, some were born here, some immigrated. None of them hate the US (well, not before Bush, anyway...) and none of them believe Islam to be a violent religion.

The only christians to violent are those attacked? Violence does not limit itself to acts. Words can cause far more terror and hatred and pain than actions.

You know, here's problem #1: Americans such as yourself seem to think there's only 2 sides to everything. Just because I don't like what you're saying, doesn't mean I'm supporting the other side. I denounce hatred and misinformation on all sides. If I could talk to one of the terrorrists (assuming I wouldn't seriously injure him first), I'd argue with him a million times more than I do with you.

I don't support propaganda, I support the truth. The articles you consistently put up here are pure propaganda, and are half-truths. That's what's the most frustrating. They always start with something that might be true but then don't reveal the entire concept. Let's take Libertarian Toker's example of the red apple. Sure it's red, nobody can deny that. But it is completely red? Is there a green spot? Is it big, small, round, oval? Is it smooth, bruised, thick or thin skinned?

I'm far from being a bleeding heart liberal. Think hard before you throw that out.

Libertarian Toker:
You do the same thing Torog does. Just because I said Christianity is violent, doesn't mean I don't think Islam CAN be violent.

What I'm saying is that Islamic terrorrists are about as religiously correct as David Koresh. They are equally disturbed and both dangerously misinterpret the Bible or the Koran.

Maybe you should read something written about Islam that is NOT written by an American. Don't you realize that politicians and their journalists will tell you exactly what you want to hear? So many people sadly think as you do, and the media constantly reinforces their view by presenting it as fact. Think outside the box, buddy, you might be surprised at what you find out...

torog hurts my head, so i called him a racist redneck, i doubt he just hates musslims im sure he hates all arabs. and if you cant tolerate someone different than yourself and believes different things than you, you are a redneck, thats what the definition is in my book.

hey torog, dont feel bad just because they are inferring that you are a facist, i can think of plenty great leaders who were facists, Hitler, Mussolini, Bush... its not really a bad thing

"Tell me Ghost, what good does it do to post a prejudice saying to protest a prejudice article?"

I remember asking why youre sticking up for this kind of thing, I dont rememeber making any prejudice remarks.

Secondly, I dont think any kind of prejudism is right, and no, I dont hate Torog, I just hate some of the things he says. Trust me, if somebody came on here saying "All Christians are evil, murderous, blah blah blah" I would disagree with it, also. But they didnt.

Thirdly, why is everyone saying I called Torog a redneck? I think Torog's an alright guy, I just dont like the fact that he hates who hes told to hate, and does it with a passion. Hes probably never even met a muslim, but he hates them all. Hes definately never needed an abortion, but hes against the idea of abortions. He probably has no homosexual friends, and yet he believes theres a big homosexual conspiracy going on. He probably hates black people, jewish people, and people with large feet, too. He needs to start thinking for himself.

"your liberal psyche believes that you must make friends with everyone"

Damn. I'd love to make friends with everyone if I could, and im fucking proud of it. In fact, I cant think of a single reason why anyone WOULDNT wanna make friends with everyone.

^Because its easier to blow them up.

[QUOTE=F L E S H]Libertarian Toker:QUOTE]

"Just because I said Christianity is violent, doesn't mean I don't think Islam CAN be violent."

I didn't say what your implying I said or did. I said you were excusing islams violence, not claiming it didn't exist.

"What I'm saying is that Islamic terrorrists are about as religiously correct as David Koresh."

Naw, what you seemed to be saying was muslims are not so bad if ya compare them to christians. You parade your ignorence of muslims, and then do the very thing you claim Torog should not do, and that is to think you know the whole because you have met a few. I don't know about you, but in my book living in a country that is run by islam kind of spanks having a few muslim buddys in Canada.

"They are equally disturbed and both dangerously misinterpret the Bible or the Koran."

Yep, that's true enough.

"Maybe you should read something written about Islam that is NOT written by an American."

Maybe you should not assume I haven't.

" Don't you realize that politicians and their journalists will tell you exactly what you want to hear?"

I understand that a lot of people will do that. It is not confined to politicians and their journalists.

"So many people sadly think as you do"

And what is it that I think?

"and the media constantly reinforces their view by presenting it as fact."

Sorry, but it truely is a fact that islam is violent. Good grief man, wake up and smell the folgers. It's not the media, it's the muslims doing the reinforcing. If islam is not part of the violence, why does the majority not denounce the terroristic eliment in their ranks that use violence? Islam uses violence. If you can't see that, your blind.

"Think outside the box, buddy, you might be surprised at what you find out."

You may want to practice what you preach a little. Propaganda is not limited to just the right. You sound like so many others I have discussed this with. That leads me to believe that your all eating from the same dish. Mind control??? Propagation??? Who is and who isn't effected by it? Do you think your not? I can see the propagation in your words the same as you can it in Torog's. So what does that mean? Am I wrong, and you really do hold the actual truth?

Toker

Your right ghost, I mixed you up with the other guy. My mistake. I apologize for that mix up.

"He probably hates black people, jewish people, and people with large feet, too. He needs to start thinking for himself."

Then you go on to say some hatefull shit like that. Why would you make acusations against someone you don't know are true if you want to make friends with everyone and your proud of it? I happen to know that he doesn't hate his girl friend.

Toker

LT, you know exactly what I meant by what I said. Most of Torogs opinions come from either the Bush administration or his religion.

You got me totally wrong, LT. First of all, as I said in another post, I'm in no way a left-winger, except on social issues. Second of all, yes, I do like to believe that I'm somewhat above petty propaganda, and I'm able to recognize it from all parts of the political spectrum, I don't really care what you think about me. Thirdly, I never said muslims aren't so bad when you compare them to christians. I said that Islam is a religion that is not more violent, or less, than Christianity. Don't take my words out of context.

You seem so sure of yourself when you say that Islam is inherently violent. I wanna know where you got this opinion from, because your argument for everything boils down to "because I say so." If you're gonna convince people, you gotta do better than that.... I've been known to change my mind when I'm thoroughly convinced :D.

"You got me totally wrong, LT."

Maybe, maybe not.

"First of all, as I said in another post, I'm in no way a left-winger, except on social issues."

Yep, and that's kind of a problem since I said nothing about left or right. You are not using preprogramed remarks are you? How can you be in no way a lefty, except on social issues? That would mean that you do swing to the left in some ways. What is not a social issue?

"Second of all, yes, I do like to believe that I'm somewhat above petty propaganda, and I'm able to recognize it from all parts of the political spectrum"

And that's a problem also. Tell me Flesh, what is propaganda, and who uses it? It's been my expirence that those that think they are not, and can not, be propagated are usually the one that are taken in the most by one side or the other of any given issues propaganda. You didn't answer directly, so I will have to assume your answer means you think you hold the truth. Where do you get your truth from Flesh?

"I don't really care what you think about me."

Sure ya do! Why else would you try to explain yourself to me?

"Thirdly, I never said muslims aren't so bad when you compare them to christians. I said that Islam is a religion that is not more violent, or less, than Christianity. Don't take my words out of context."

You go first on the context thing! BTW, what I said was, "what you "seemed" to be saying". That is what it seemed like you were saying to me. Your kind of a picky one ain't ya?

"You seem so sure of yourself when you say that Islam is inherently violent."

I am sure of myself. Are you unsure of yourself?

"I wanna know where you got this opinion from, because your argument for everything boils down to "because I say so."

I thought you didn't care? Oh well, I guess you do care after all. I get my opinion from me. I don't get my opinon from others. I am the only source for my opinion. Who is it that tells you what your opinion is?

"If you're gonna convince people, you gotta do better than that"

I don't do this to change other peoples minds, I do it to change mine.

Toker

"LT, you know exactly what I meant by what I said. Most of Torogs opinions come from either the Bush administration or his religion."

Since he doesn't think like you, you think it's cool to call him racist? Is that what you meant? When you say someone "probable" hates blacks and jews and the like, what is it your doing? I see clearly what it is your doing, I wonder if you do?

Toker

You're funny. You ask me "where do I get my truth from" yet when I ask you, you won't tell me. I never said I didn't care, in fact, I'm extremely curious about where you hear these things, since you act as if you hold the key to this argument.... Don't keep it to yourself, share the knowledge! I told you, I can change my mind, if your case is good enough. Nobody tells me what my opinions are, I try to see the facts, and I form my own conclusions.

You're right, LT, Torog doesn't think like me. I dont spread hate and fear and anger. The only thing I hate is blind prejudism. Period.

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Originally Posted by F L E S H

You're funny. You ask me "where do I get my truth from" yet when I ask you, you won't tell me. I never said I didn't care, in fact, I'm extremely curious about where you hear these things, since you act as if you hold the key to this argument.... Don't keep it to yourself, share the knowledge! I told you, I can change my mind, if your case is good enough. Nobody tells me what my opinions are, I try to see the facts, and I form my own conclusions.

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good luck with that. he's the same way to me. nothing i provide is ever good enough (even when it's congressman, congressional reports, executive orders, recognizing spin, articles from around the world, ap, upi, reuters, legislation, etc...), yet it's like pulling teeth to find out his hidden knowledge that refutes everything and is propaganda free...

toker's all talk. he can ask a thousand questions, but can't answer any himself. check out his responses to my posts on the politics board, it's always semantical or nonsensical, and never addresses any of the issues. he is a good double thinker though.

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Originally Posted by GHoSToKeR

You're right, LT, Torog doesn't think like me. I dont spread hate and fear and anger. The only thing I hate is blind prejudism. Period.

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So what your saying is that your blindly prejudice against people that probably are prejudice??? If someone probably hates, you feel the need to hate also? Is that what your saying? What are you spreading when you claim Torog is probably racist? Hate? Fear? Anger?

Toker

I do hold the key! Didn't you know? So, you act as if you hold the key, and I act as if I do. Now what? Who does hold that key man? Is it you, or is it me? Maybe it's neither one? The evidence is all over that proves islam is violent. Why do you ignore it? You want me to change your mind for you. I say change it yourself.

Toker

i know muslims, they aren't violent. i know christians who aren't violent as well. there are violent muslims and there are violent christians.

i could care less what people half way around the world are doing when my republic is being dismantled and a technological dictatorship is emerging. why should we cheer on the destruction of our country while our great officials claim to want to spread freedom all around the world?

evil muslims didn't pass the patriot act and give us homeland security and the new freedom initiative and national id cards. they didn't force homeland security to hire ex stasi and KGB chiefs to work out our internal passport system. they didn't force the put options on the airlines or call people government 'officials' and tell them not to fly...

but wait, i forgot, i'm supposed to be looking at the other hand...

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Originally Posted by Libertarian Toker

So what your saying is that your blindly prejudice against people that probably are prejudice??? If someone probably hates, you feel the need to hate also? Is that what your saying? What are you spreading when you claim Torog is probably racist? Hate? Fear? Anger?

Toker

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LOL

If somebody comes out with blatantly racist or prejudist remarks, then calling them out for what they are does not classas prejudism. And even if being anti-racist IS prejudism, then i'm definately prejudist in that respect. Stop trying to twist my words, because I dont care enough to argue with you anymore.