Stinky's Crash Course in "nOOb Hydro"... Welcome to the Darkside

Hey all, can I start by saying for the record that I am a COMPOST grower- HAHAHA- just in case there was any confusion... :jointsmile:

I'm setting up another room in my house to run hydro for the winter because I really don't have a good place to store soil that doesn't freeze, and disposing of used dirt in a place that gets SNOWFALL is just ASKING for trouble...

So this is going to be set up as an example of what I consider to be a very VERY basic beginner hydro system, one which anyone can run without too much hassle.

I have always run a perpetual crop, and despite the insistence of my favorite Cannabis Consultant (you know who you are!) that SOG 2-month cycles are far more efficient, I'm going to continue.

It's not that I disagree, but I personally have amassed a collection of 35 different strains and do not want to limit myself to a single strain per cycle, and I will need to be able to move plants around anyway, so there's no reason why I should not run multiple trays and reservoirs, and simply move plants along as they get closer to harvest.

Plants are not going to be embedded in a substrate of anything; rather, they'll be put in quart pots full of hydroton- not net- pots, regular ones, and moved to keep the canopy as even as possible, and get teh proper food mix.

I will have 3 trays:

2x4 for early flower- plain bloom nutes
2x4 for mid flower- this one will get any bloom boosters I decide to use
1x4 for pre-harvest- this will contain all plants within 2 weeks of harvest and be on a constant leaching solution

Plants will be put into the room as well-rooted clones, and grown in the bud-on-a-stick fashion.

Lighting will be a single air-cooled HPS1000. Also in the room will be my spare HPS400 for retired mothers, but that is not part of this log.

The room is about 6x6 ish.

Reservoirs will be 5 gallon pails with covers. Pumps will be the cheap 'Eco' pumps from National Garden Wholesale- the local shop stocks them and they are supposed to be pretty damn indestructible for a $15 pump.

I'll be no doubt having to add additional climate control, as my attic is unheated. I may also add CO2 if my friend EVER decides to give me back my damn tank, grr, but I haven't decided yet, since I sleep in the same area and am not exactly comfortable with trusting the regulator! If I can find a high-CO2 alarm, I'd be more willing to consider it. Plus I'd have to go sealed-room. We will see.

Most likely the strains I will choose out of my collection for these hydro tables will all be squat indicas, and I will be relying heavily on the classic Power Plant and the BOG lines, along with a couple of my own lines that I feel are well suited to SOG.

For ferts, I've got 5 gallons of Botanicare Power Plant/Power Flower that I need to use up, then I'm switching to Cornucopia quite likely- it's cheap, it's local, I'm impressed by it so far, the local shop keeps it stocked.

I run city water and do not forsee problems. I've dabbled in flood n drain before and my main issues were nothing more than temps and getting the cycles right.

So as soon as I get some plastic at the house, I'll start posting up pictures.

I'm already massively confused but I'll figure it out once I get the photos.....now why flood and drain as opposed to DWC or drip?

My goal here is to post up a very simple system that can be built for short money. It's certainly cheaper than drip for initial investment, and needs less maintenance.

The reason I have decided against DWC is that I'm really just going to be running a single point of light, and I feel that a field of small plants is more efficient under this restraint than fewer but much larger plants.

Another thing to consider is the total 'age' of each harvested plant, from the time the clone roots to the time it is harvested- by minimizing that time, you also reduce the amount of plant energy wasted putting on 'wood', and the risk of anything bad happening to it.

My plant count is already outrageous so hey... here goes!!!

Ok....here's what I don't understand about clones.....even though they are the genetic age of the mother....you're still looking at one little branch that has to put out some side growth etc before you flower it. The clones take how long to root? So really, how much faster is it from seed? Enquiring minds need to know.....:D

i can see this is going to be a very interesting thread, will be following with interest.

Bud on a stick= side growth is actually kept to a MINIMUM.

I'll allow up to 3 leads per plant in that size pots; all other side growth will be removed after the second week of flower.

Clones take approximately 2 weeks to root at my house, then I pot them up and abuse them for another week to test viability. That's actually sort of a joke, but it's true that I don't really baby my rooted clones very much; I'd rather that they die early rather than waste work on a plant that is sickly or not vigorous enough.

So compared to the same SETUP from seed, whcih wouldn't be practical since I'm flowering clones at a size shorter than they are typically at when they initially show sex, I'm going to assume a month of time saved.

Compared to a DWC from-seed grow allowing a month of veg after the seedling stage, I'd say 6-8 weeks saved, although my per-plant yield is going to be very low of course!

And then you do a bunch of them at once and that's where your speed and high yield come in.....I get it now. Like what Rhizome was talking about with the 192 plants...hey...you're not doing 192 plants are you??? :eek:

the flood and drain makes more sense now as well.....less things breaking and less worries.....can take of everyone at once....hey....you ARE a pretty smart Growhead... :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Funny you should bring up Rhizome... I'm not running 192 plants, but it's something akin to his basic setup instructions that I'm thinking of actually. I think he was telling dusto about something very similar except just a single-stage grow, not multiples.

And yeah, that's the point- nothing to break. Keep an extra pump on hand, because that's pretty much the only moving part in this system, lol. I will very likely aerate the res's though.

Whats wrong with flood and drain its always worked gd for me and there aint much to go wrong with it.also i like the idea of having a large reservoir in the system to keep the water parameters more stable.
chronic was perfect stinky for my tables,short,fast and fat just like my women:):):)

Well, my issue with flood and drain would be the timing....I don't want to deal with the possible problems and drip and DWC don't deal with the issue (unless you want them to). But for lack of moving parts, ease of checking and adjusting ph etc as Stinky said...it would be the way to go.

stinky quote: I'm setting up another room in my house to run hydro for the winter because I really don't have a good place to store soil that doesn't freeze, and disposing of used dirt in a place that gets SNOWFALL is just ASKING for trouble... :quote

I'v seen some pix of a setup like this one on the web befor.

I am sure that if stinky is doing it than it should work out great.

Oh sheesh I had a long sit-down yesterday with the guy from the shop to talk about possible setups.

My priorities, and the reasoning behind them, are as follows:

-MUST be a re-usable medium- that is why I am SET on hydroton.
The reason is to make this a good setup for an apartment-dweller who can't be disposing of soil, soilless, or rockwool slab every cycle, and doesn't feel like hauling a bale of promix on his bicycle or public transportation, lol!!!

-Should be under $200 for all parts, not including lights and climate control.
This is because I am trying to make this thread a tutorial for someone who already has the dirt experience I recommend for your first couple grows, so already HAS the basic equipment handy.

-Must be very low maintenance and also pretty fool-proof.
I want this to be easy to set-up and maintain for someone who has only limited DIY skills and can't afford a pre-fab hydro kit.

So a second option we discussed was what he calls a 'modular vertical containerized NFT', lol!!!! Or something like that- I was baked off my gourd at the time.

This is a BRILLIANT solution. It's a sort of hybrid NFT/recirculating drip. But rather than dripping, it emits a constant STREAM of highly aerated water over a pot of hydroton pellets.

A system like that has the following advantages over NFT:
-hydroton remains moist for a significant amount of time after pump failure
-hand-watering is possible in emergencies (power outage).
-Cleaning is very simple

And the following advantage, valuable to upper-story apartment dewllers, over flood and drain:
-Volume of reservoir can be much smaller!!!
This is why I am leaning towards this method. I wanted to be able to flood out of 5 gallon pails, but that would have meant multiple pumps on timers set to go on at different times, flooding the trays.
This delivery system's total volume is very small. I am not trying to haul more than 5 gallons of nute solution up my attic stairs, thanks!!!

So when I make up my mind, I'll let y'all know.

Please do because I am LOST.....where is this stream of aererated (sp?) water coming from? There has to be power to a.....(can't spell) right? Now you've got moving parts again......:confused:

The stream of aerated water is run from a res with an airstone, by a pump pushing 1/4" flexible tubing. The pump is a given either way.

I'd also like to add the assumption to set this up- You've already completed at least one soil grow and have lights, ventilation, appropriate mother plants, and basic troubleshooting knowledge already in place.

Ummm....no...I haven't completed a soil grow.....am I out? :(

You were probably born with a green thumb... :weedpoke:

Yeah, if the pump is a given....maybe you said it and I missed it but what kind of timing would the watering schedule be with that?

That would be constant flow actually, like a waterfall.

So the advantage over drip......?

Hydroton can't hold moisture well enough to get a drip system working easily.
The simple solution would be rockwool slab, drip, set it and forget it... But I'm trying to assemble a COMPLETELY re-usable system with absolutely NO waste. And don't tell me about aero... lol

I don't know anything about aero....rockwool's a pita....and its ph probs. You know.....you can buy air pumps that run on batteries in a pinch in case you don't happen to have a standby generator sitting around at your house for power outages....just a thought from a non-dirt person.....I'll go away now and quit pestering you and your thread.....;)

NONONO Don't go, I may need you to troubleshoot my 'dro, yo!
Good call on the battery air pumps. You must keep fishtanks...?

Well I only meant for about ten minutes....I was on break from pestering....a quick doob and I've punched back in :D

I do keep fishtanks but it's more about the fact that we're in nowhere'sville.....except for the few DUI's that seem to keep finding the power poles. Sure wish they'd go hit a tree or something. :wtf: (pss....I hit a house once....drunk....:()
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nice grow... i am on my first noob hydro experiment... a long time soil grower, and until i met fox farm i was a; compost, selfmixed earth, guy. The hydro is very exciting i think, of course alot more hands on, and tempremental... I LOVE hydroton, becuase i am a foliar feed retard, and it hard to over water, and if you do, the plant bounces back real quick... i also like a cotton wick, it helps me know that small plants can get moisture as they need at any time, and it flushes clean, during res change. I have been wondering what to do for air in the small res though. what is truely the best method of puttin o2 in the water?

Can't wait to see how it turns out

on a side note
i am gonna have to augment my set up for flowering, there is just no way my set up could handle even 4 fully grown flowered plants.i don't know if you are fimilar with emily's garden, but i was thinking of somehow adding an external res. maybe by using a heigth difference to keep the planters water level right, and for free drain, and a pump from the res to wherever.
does this sound about right? this should allow me to keep my setup still somewhat short, but add needed res room

Part numbers are from National Garden Wholesale- your local grow shop should have an account with that company.
6 leach trays@ $12, NGW#707430
ECO-264 submersible pump, $20, NGW#728305
1/2" tee fitting, $.50, NGW#708420
21 1/4" tee fittings @.35, NGW#708405
21 feet black vinyl tubing ID 3/16" OD 1/4", @$.40/foot, NGW#708220
42 5.5" square pots, I fished them out of a dumpster, but they are about 50 cents each

Then the inevitable trip to Home DePot for stuff I forgot:
5 gallon pail wit cover for res- $7
30 feet of 1/2" black vinyl tubing- $14
end-to-end fitting for above- $2- then I realized I don't need it, lol
a couple pieces of cull lumber, $2
2 sawhorses- I already had these, the cheap ones you make out of 2x4s and steel brackets- no more than about $15- I'll be sawing the legs down and using them for support

And shit I already have:
50L sack of hydroton
Another small res for my leach section
Cheap walmart pond pump for same

The whole thing all together is about $200. Most of that is trays, pumps, and hydroton.

Well why didn't you just buy me a bunch while you were there? Part numbers....and you accuse ME of geekyness....PULEASE!! :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Weedhound

Ummm....no...I haven't completed a soil grow.....am I out? :(

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oh, youve completed soil grows alright,,,,,




with disasterous results, genocide queen:wtf:





please-
step away from the dirt.

heh heh....el destructo.... :D

Stinky.
i dont want to hyjack ur thread, but have come recommended,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rhizome
Stick the Russian boy in a cardboard box someplace w/ 1 cfl on 12/12. He's just a sperm donor- no sense babying him. Girls can stay in with the thai. When he drops, you hand pollinate.

Check in w/ Stinky- she does this kind of thing sometimes.

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could you come visit my log and maybe lend me some advice on my possible hand pollination project?

its a long log, if you pick up at page 20 or 21 ull be up to speed by 22 on your possible advice.

thanks in advance
Rock.

lol Rock I'll come on by.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rock.Steady

oh, youve completed soil grows alright,,,,,

with disasterous results, genocide queen:wtf:

please-
step away from the dirt.

---

:S2:

Hey Stinky, why is this in the "Grow Log" section? Could you move it somewhere that the thread is easier to find and check back in on? Like maybe Hydro?

This is a great thread. Can't wait to se how everything turns out. :thumbsup:

PC :smokin:

It's really a log... and there are people FAR more qualified to give hydro advice!
This is a thread about watching a drrrty girl get her fingernails clean for the first time in almost 3 years, lol.

When are we getting some pictures then eh?

Hey Stinky,

I am in the process of building a system almost exactly the same. Hydroton, pots, tray, drip, sog. For the same reasons you are completely reusable, relatively low maintainence, etc. I have used rockwool ebb flow before with decent results. But, IMO rockwool is high maintainence. The problem that I have been procrastinating over is using strictly hydroton? You said you are running a constant waterfall which is basically what I want to do. I had my mind set and then started reading all the mixed opinions about it. Now I'm a bit confused. Is it ok to run a constant drip or stream using the hydroton, or can you still overwater, cause root rot, etc. Then the nut's, I assume for this I would need to run a dilute concentration since it will be constantly feeding the plants. Sorry for the lengthy post. Just want some good advice.

Thanks

Those are questions I'm going to be trying to answer too.
The reservoir water is going to be VERY VERY well aerated and I don't forsee any problems with root rot, and I'm going to treat teh nutrient solution as if it is nothing fancier than a normal NFT.

I think it's really cool of you to do ALL THIS WORK for the benefit of others. How selfless is that! You know stinky, you really are a solid cornerstone of this forum. I for one am very glad your here!

Aw shush, I'm blushing. Honestly I have a shitload of fun with it myself so I'm not sure how selfless you can really say it is.

PICS!!!
It's up and running at 1/3 capacity.
I ended up deciding to go with a 5 gallon pail res per 2 4-foot leach trays. My pump is a little overpowered so I am replacing it wiht the small sized Eco pump- cost is very similar.
So the pics show the sawhorses that it is supported on, the system assembled 'dry' without any of the drip fittings, the res and its pumps (water and air), the drip lines, and the whole system running with plants. Chronisseur's head looks okay too but I think his hairdresser is mad at him.
I'm running the Cornucopia Plus 3-part, which as the local hydro guy puts it is a twitchy and VERY strong fert for a nOOb to start with, but FABULOUS stuff, and I've been very happy using it in soil so far... we will see. Anyway I'm using the Bloom, the Necessary Plant Energy, TopMax, and molasses pH'd to right about 6.0 according to my cheapskate liquid test kit. I'm using concentrated HNO3 as pH down and conc. KOH for up.
The pump is not on a timer- it runs 24on- and there are no emitters; I plugged the ends of the flexi, cut at 45' angles, directly into the large hole in the rapidrooter plug, whcih as you may recall, I don't use for cloning. I cut a small slit instead for that.
Plants are embedded in a quart pot of hydroton and with the pump turned off may be moved freely throughout the system, allowing for the different feeding schedules of the multiple strains I run at all times. One res will be on plain water with molasses for the final flush, one is on regular plain bloom nutes, and the middle one will contain any bloom booster (probably PK 13/14) that I will be using mid-cycle.