Heat Damage~Underdeveloped Roots~Recovery Possible???

in my first grow (log in sig), still going on.
im in dirt, indoors.
2 girls seem to have serious bonsai characteristics.

long story short.(6 weeks worth)

i made some noobie mistakes.(of course)

the beginning of the grow i had nearly zero ventilation.
used 150w cfls about 1 inch away from first sign of poking out of the dirt.
then i let em bake for 24-7
temps got to 80-90+ for a week at least until i realized

once i started realizing errors, took some steps.

more room
fans
better ventilation
better cooling.
re-potted w more perlite
got some nutes
better lighting

1 has recoverd and is thriving to the point that i feel we will go to flower in a couple weeks.

2 are about 3 inches tall at the 6th node already.:wtf:

tonite i notices something strange.

while spraying them, the one wiggled so much i thought she'd fall over.

i poked around in the dirt and there is a fairly hard section of dirt directly under her and it looks like her main root snakes along the top and goes down somewhere else.
its terrible, had to shore up the dirt around her to hold her up.

here's my question to the dirty experts.

is recovery possible???

im thinkin a couple possible plans

1-superthrive her like crazy as a prep to help prevent shocking her to death.
then soak the pot till i have soup,
fish out the root sytem and carefully transplant into new fluffy soil.

more drastic
2-chop her at the dirt line and re-root like a clone and start over in new soil

most drastic
3-chop her into as many clones as i think i could salvage and go from there.

this is what the 2 bonsais look like at almost 6 weeks.
i gotta do something, its almost a waste to keep them at this pace.
http://gallery.cannabis.com/data/500.../P10100056.JPG

any input would be very appreciated
Peace.

Rock.

I'd really appreciate it if you'd be a little more complete in your description of your problems. :D

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Originally Posted by Weedhound

I'd really appreciate it if you'd be a little more complete in your description of your problems. :D

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WH, you my dear are a wizeazz!

oh yeah, one more adjustment i made was i went to 18-6 a couple weeks ago to allow for the possible root growing benefits of some dark time.

seems to have helped too, or just coincidence, but im stayin 18-6 till we go to flower.

and pay no attention to the wizeazz above;)

oh if theres anything i missed, a question , please ask.

thanks for reading:thumbsup:

Rock.

Don't overdo the superthrive!
Just repot deeper into fresh soil... the soil shoudl come right up to the node where the cotyledons are (or were, probably, in your case)
Keep temps down of course.

stinky, thnx for the reply, i've heard you know ur stuff.

my follow up to your advice would be How much of the roots should i try to salvage?
should i physically break up that giant lump under the main stalk?
this will be a lil bit brutal to do right, just go for it?

I may need to prop up in the new soil until the roots re-develop. i think the roots are all screwed up.

Rock.

I'd just bury the bottom portion of the stem... the plant can grow roots from that section. Try to avoid damaging the roots at ALL at this stage. I would not really try to break up the lump, maybe if you just poked it with something sharp in a couple places, avoiding the roots?

oh gawd it was a disaster.

far worse than i expected.

the roots are basically non-existant.

i sprayed lightly with some good water fortified with superthrive to try to give em a chance.

i cant figure how they are alive.
the next few days should prove interesting.

Donna

Abi

after the carnage

Betty, more lite

Betty close up.

i sure hope Betty doesnt have similar issues.

Rock.

Now is that heat or soil related? Betty looks pretty happy so hard to believe she doesn't have roots....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Weedhound

Now is that heat or soil related? Betty looks pretty happy so hard to believe she doesn't have roots....

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scarey part is she kinda wiggled the other day too.

i cant tell what the hell did this???
i find it hard to believe there was enough life in the upper part of the plant to keep them alive.
that tap root is maybe 1/2 in long.
those lil caplillary roots arent shit, but somehow kept it all alive.

i went and got a bigger pot for Betty cause i figured she would need a change before flower.
now im almost scared to even touch her.

the leafs on the 2 bonsais perked up this afternoon, i think they mught have hope.

the dirt just crumbled, went away and left that lil nothin of root behind.
i put about 45% perlite in the new set up to loosen it up.

i'm really confused as to what to do with Betty.
i think ill wait a few days and see how the smaller ones react.
if they take well, then fawkit, ill do Betty into the bigger pot.

Rock.

I think heat can just damage the roots like that but soil can also if it is too densely packed....I think it was probably heat issues in your case but I'm just guessing.

quick update
they seem to be happy.
will post pics after some growth.

check my growlog, page 7 for updates on Betty.
we took a look at her and upgraded.

Rock.

ok, 9 days after the transplant I think it is safe to say that some sort of recovery is indeed possible.
In the past few days they have gotten noticably active.

remember, they had almost no roots 9 days ago, after 5 weeks.

a copy from my grow log-
Abi and Donna definately are waking up.
whats more!? I looked underneath and both of these girls roots have gotten very busy since the transplant, they are showing healthy root at the drain holes!!!
I guess recovery from this terrible stunting is indeed possible.
I will leave them in the current pots until they develop more above ground.
I think the visible growth should start to catch up with the root development based upon their activity in the past few days. They are far more active than ever before.
not sure just how fast they will grow now, but, we'll see.

the recovering bonsai girls.
http://gallery.cannabis.com/data/500/medium/abiWk6.JPG

http://gallery.cannabis.com/data/500...m/donnaWk6.JPG

Rock.

I'm suspecting there were clones? Sometimes clones dont budge at all for a while once repotted, then take off after a week or so.

Rock, I'm suspecting overwet soil if you just had a little bit of root development near the soil surface.

If the soil doesn't drain well, there's no drain holes in the pots, or you just have kept them constantly saturated, the roots would not have had sufficient oxygen to develop.

Soil or grow media should be allowed to lose about 3/4 of its water weight before watering again. Soil should be touch dry down a couple inches before giving more water. Think 'damp' never 'wet.' Cannabis hates 'wet feet.'

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1-superthrive her like crazy as a prep to help prevent shocking her to death.
then soak the pot till i have soup,
fish out the root sytem and carefully transplant into new fluffy soil.

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I like this one. I've successfully moved plants which were well-rooted in clay pellets this way, with no transplant shock if few roots are damaged.

Go easy on the Sthrive, it won't stop transplant shock- but avoiding breaking roots will.

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Originally Posted by faithlessxxx

I'm suspecting there were clones? Sometimes clones dont budge at all for a while once repotted, then take off after a week or so.

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actually, no, these were bagseed.

Al-
I dont think it was a water issue, to the contrary, i roasted the poor babies when they first sprouted. the soil always had good drainage, I even popped more holes in bottom prior to use to make sure.
I think this was heat damage.

they are improving quickly and likely need a transplant.
i will probably push them to flower prematurly as I am letting Betty set the pace. When she is ready, I'll flip all 3.

Rock.