Bill W

I met him a month ago... anyone else. :thumbsup:

been there...done that...have the book and the damn tshirt....lol

super kudos for getting to know this person...takes a lot of inner strength to accept those convictions......

good luck in your journey....

princess

so do ya still talk?

my wife is his friend

I was his friend for about a month 10 years ago..we dont talk anymore.

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Originally Posted by geonagual

I was his friend for about a month 10 years ago..we dont talk anymore.

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I hope you found what you were looking for, and I am sure he still remembers you.

I wonder what Bill thinks about pot. I have never recieved a straight answer.

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Originally Posted by the yeag

I hope you found what you were looking for, and I am sure he still remembers you.

I wonder what Bill thinks about pot. I have never recieved a straight answer.

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I am sure that Bill does not like weed and figures it to be a contributor.

yeah that is my guess. so for now I am not smoking. I hope after a while I will be able to smoke in moderation.... but considering my track record????

I feel like i've enetered the twighlight zone where everyone is in a cult I don't know about.

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Originally Posted by Matt the Funk

I feel like i've enetered the twighlight zone where everyone is in a cult I don't know about.

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haha a cult!!!!if you only new. i do understand what you are saying. if you are really interested google it. i guess i did not need to be so vague. i am comfortable with myself i am just respecting others.

You've never heard of Bill W, Matt? Ever had any friends who did 12-step work or had personal experience with it, yourself? Google Bill W or AA and see what you find. He's done a lot of good for millions of people around the world for decades, including two of my uncles and a lot of the folks I've volunteered with over the years. Saying "I'm a friend of Bill W" is an insider's way of saying a person is working one of those programs that ends in the letter A. Anyone who goes so far as to take step 1 has already won my admiration.

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Originally Posted by birdgirl73

You've never heard of Bill W, Matt? Ever had any friends who did 12-step work or had personal experience with it, yourself? Google Bill W or AA and see what you find. He's done a lot of good for millions of people around the world for decades, including two of my uncles and a lot of the folks I've volunteered with over the years. Saying "I'm a friend of Bill W" is an insider's way of saying a person is working one of those programs. Anyone who goes so far as to take step 1 has already won my admiration.

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EDIT: I know some people who are friends with him....never really met him myself.

Well, one of these days you or someone else you know may need him. He's a good one to know about, whether you yourself need a program or not. There are lots of folks who do, and part of the tradition--in fact it's the 12th step--is to help carry the message to others who might need it, that is, people who're struggling. Even folks who aren't close personal acquaintances of Bill W. can do that if they have an understanding of the program. That's part of what motivates my explanation here. In some small way, this thread might be helpful for others on these boards, and I don't refer to the people on this thread, who could benefit from a Step 12 reach-out. They're out there.

Yes. When I experienced him first, it was actually more than a month..it was 6 months, 2 different times and it wasn't 10 years ago, it was14...I went into voluntary rehab while I was in the Marine Corps...I had to attend many of these meetings.I did learn a lot..I have since got at least the drug part of my life under control and only smoke weed in moderation...barely any alcohol..so, at this time in my life I feel that I am fine.

Birdgirl, have you ever heard of the Landmark Forum?

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Originally Posted by birdgirl73

Well, one of these days you or someone else you know may need him. He's a good one to know about, whether you yourself need a program or not. There are lots of folks who do, and part of the tradition--in fact it's the 12th step--is to help carry the message to others who might need it, that is, people who're struggling. Even folks who aren't close personal acquaintances of Bill W. can do that if they have an understanding of the program. That's part of what motivates my explanation here. In some small way, this thread might be helpful for others on these boards, and I don't refer to the people on this thread, who could benefit from a Step 12 reach-out. They're out there.

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I've managed to stop doing other drugs and cut down considerably on cannabis.The 12-step program was a somewhat important thing at Las Encinas, although I don't know how much I got from it there. Although I wouldn't be surprised if I need him later in life.

well everything seems to be out in the open now.....if there is anyone who is an active member i have a few basic questions.

I haven't ever heard of the Landmark Forum, Geo. Tell me about it. I'd like to know.

yeag, i'm not an active member, but very familiar. Do you have a sponser yet?
he would be a big help with your questions.

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Originally Posted by Lido

yeag, i'm not an active member, but very familiar. Do you have a sponser yet?
he would be a big help with your questions.

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thanks..i did just that. i got a sponser. i have been trying to find the shortcut ....there isn't one. i am shocked i am the only person here who is activley involved in the program.:jointsmile:

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Originally Posted by the yeag

thanks..i did just that. i got a sponser. i have been trying to find the shortcut ....there isn't one. i am shocked i am the only person here who is activley involved in the program.:jointsmile:

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I dont see why your shocked..if you smoke the herb...it takes away any clean time that you have..

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Originally Posted by geonagual

I dont see why your shocked..if you smoke the herb...it takes away any clean time that you have..

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i have put the pipe down for now.......for at least 30-60 more days. i cannot find anything wrong with someone smoking pot in moderation. i know plenty of people in A.A who feel the same.:jointsmile: I promise to myself that if I abuse it like alcohol i will put it down for good, at least i know i will not crave pot. i will not have the physical addiction of pot.....i know i never have smoked a joint and said...gee i want to drink a case of beer!!!!! mabye i would drink a case of snapple or soda:jointsmile:

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Originally Posted by the yeag

i have put the pipe down for now.......for at least 30-60 more days. i cannot find anything wrong with someone smoking pot in moderation. i know plenty of people in A.A who feel the same.:jointsmile: I promise to myself that if I abuse it like alcohol i will put it down for good, at least i know i will not crave pot. i will not have the physical addiction of pot.....i know i never have smoked a joint and said...gee i want to drink a case of beer!!!!! mabye i would drink a case of snapple or soda:jointsmile:

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HAHA. True.. that is the same way I feel. I have been to quite a few NA meetings and there are a lot more people than you think in recovery for MJ. I always thought. wtf! Then they were going up and getting their 10 year coin..who knows?

I look at it like this, everyone is fucked up...think about it everyone you know is either on something..or overdoing something...beer ,coke, pot , cigs , food , sex , heroin...or they are in fucking recovery. it did not use to be like this cause people were to fucking busy trying to get by , instead of choosing between starbucks or the local coffee house.

AA does not work for the majority of people that try it. They don't like this fact to be known, but it's a failure for most.

AA is cult-like. You're supposed to go for the rest of your life. That never sounded like a good idea to me.

There are alternative programs and organizations that allow people to get themselves off alcohol and/or bad drugs by using self-reliance, without the "higher power" belief system and other baggage associated with 12 step programs. I don't have a substance-abuse problem, but if I did I could not agree with most of AA's twelve steps, so it wouldn't work for me.

These are the original Twelve Steps as defined by Alcoholics Anonymous:

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol/drugsâ??that our lives had become unmanageable.

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His Will for us and the power to carry that out.

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

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Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat

AA does not work for the majority of people that try it. They don't like this fact to be known, but it's a failure for most.

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Can you cite a reference for your facts, please? Because in what they're teaching in medical schools, these are the standards stats regarding addicion. This information comes from the Diseases of Psychology/Addiction chapter in Harrison's Principles of Internal Medicine:

A third of addicts get better.
People who work some sort of program or get some sort of therapeutic help--It doesn't have to be AA, which is certainly far from therapy--are more than four times more likely to succeed than those who don't.
A third of addicts stay about the same.
A third deteriorate.

I think it does help people though..My dad always talked major shit about AA..calling them "the blind, leading the blind"..Cause he stopped drinking by himself after 25 years of abusing..wasn;t a pretty site either...DT's, months in bed...then he got prescribed valium,,so here comes another addiction..one right after another...

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Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat

AA does not work for the majority of people that try it. They don't like this fact to be known, but it's a failure for most.

AA is cult-like. You're supposed to go for the rest of your life. That never sounded like a good idea to me.

There are alternative programs and organizations that allow people to get themselves off alcohol and/or bad drugs by using self-reliance, without the "higher power" belief system and other baggage associated with 12 step programs. I don't have a substance-abuse problem, but if I did I could not agree with most of AA's twelve steps, so it wouldn't work for me.

These are the original Twelve Steps as defined by Alcoholics Anonymous:

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol/drugsâ??that our lives had become unmanageable.

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His Will for us and the power to carry that out.

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

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97% of people who just go to treatment alone fail.....A.A works if YOU work it. 1 my life was unmanageble, 2 I beilive that a group of induviduals...my higher power can help me.3 i gladly turned over my addiction, because i could not control it on my own.4 everyone should do this reguardless of addiction.5 are catholics all bad too? haha it feels good to tell on yourself.6&7 wouldn't we all like to be better people? 8 i cant wait to start this...sounds a bit like pay it forward 9 again sounds uplifting if done right,,,i would never tell someone how i wronged them if it would only make me feel better.10 keep your ass in check.11meditation...church.....whatever just stay spiritual.12 help people...be a giver not a taker.

you wont or cannot do most of these things...I AM SORRY

the anonymous programs do not always work, breuk was not wrong...

The Effectiveness of the Twelve-Step Treatment

and if you want something more "professional".....this says that in one year, 31 percent of people stayed sober..that is it.....

Alcohol and Drug Rehabilitation - Betty Ford Center Ask Dr. West Sober Days

just like anything else, there is good and bad reported.....people have to decide for themselves i suppose...

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Originally Posted by birdgirl73

Can you cite a reference for your facts, please? Because in what they're teaching in medical schools, these are the standards stats regarding addicion. This information comes from the Diseases of Psychology/Addiction chapter in Harrison's Principles of Internal Medicine:
A third of addicts get better.
People who work some sort of program or get some sort of therapeutic help--It doesn't have to be AA, which is certainly far from therapy--are more than four times more likely to succeed than those who don't.
A third of addicts stay about the same.
A third deteriorate.

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Addiction is a behavior, and not a â??diseaseâ?�.

AA will not release much information or statistical data, for good reason: it is a faith-healing cult, completely unscientific, and an abysmal failure as a method of self control. In one of their own publications, AAâ??s success rate is averaged at five percent (source: P&T Bullshit 12 Step Programs video #3/3), which is the same exact rate as people that stop on their own.

Penn and Teller cover it in detail here (below), with help from people with AA experience, and other experts on addiction. AA is compulsory religion since the courts sentences people to join it, which is against the constitution.

YouTube - P&T Bullshit - 12 Step Programs (1/3)

YouTube - P&T Bullshit - 12 Step Programs (2/3)

YouTube - P&T Bullshit - 12 Step Programs (3/3)

Twelve Step programs are useless,and most drug and alcohol programs use them. We need methods that work.

now i had your back breuk, until that.... :D

my name is princess and i am an addict...i have been clean for 12 years....i have been an addict/alcoholic (used to be called cross addicted back in the day....) for 21 long and arduous years....

if i may quote.... "addiction is a disease from which there in no known cure"....

it is classified as a disease because it changes the brain chemistry, and it is further classified as a neurological disorder....the only reason why there is a deabate is because "free will" is involved...once again, the classification goes back to the damage you do to the brain during addiction.....

im not sure what i think about penn and teller though... ;)

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Originally Posted by surreys princess

now i had your back breuk, until that.... :D
my name is princess and i am an addict...i have been clean for 12 years....i have been an addict/alcoholic (used to be called cross addicted back in the day....) for 21 long and arduous years....
if i may quote.... "addiction is a disease from which there in no known cure"....
it is classified as a disease because it changes the brain chemistry, and it is further classified as a neurological disorder....the only reason why there is a deabate is because "free will" is involved...once again, the classification goes back to the damage you do to the brain during addiction......
im not sure what i think about penn and teller though... ;)

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if i may quote.... "addiction is a disease from which there in no known cure"....

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Hi,

What is the source of this pronouncement?

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it is classified as a disease because it changes the brain chemistry

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If I get my head hit by a brick, and sustain brain damage, is that also a "disease"?

that pronouncement is from the anonymous groups....

and yes, if you get brain damage, that can be classified as a disease...the definition of disease is noted here...

disease - definition of disease in the Medical dictionary - by the Free Online Medical Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

to each their own though.... :D

Yeah I dont like the whole god thing involved in AA. But I had to take AA when I was locked up, (Everyone had too), AND I DONT EVEN DRINK!, but our guy would come in and he started to come in drunk and he'd rub the other girls backs and shit. And he would try to cover up the smell of the booze with mints...yeah..

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Originally Posted by surreys princess

that pronouncement is from the anonymous groups....

and yes, if you get brain damage, that can be classified as a disease...the definition of disease is noted here...

disease - definition of disease in the Medical dictionary - by the Free Online Medical Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

to each their own though.... :D

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I looked at the link that you gave. Alcoholism was not present in their list of diseases. Even if it was, this definition could change, and hopefully will as more knowledge is gathered from research.

But the fact is that AA is useless for the vast majority of people.

We need addiction treatments that work - not superstitious 12 step cults that have about as much scientific method in their approach as astrology, voodoo, witchcraft or tarot-card reading.

It's a disgrace that these programs constitute 97% of treatment options in America. There are "known cures" - but the 12 Step "anonymous groups" don't want them to take over a share of their monopoly in the addiction market. They've been singing the same song since the 1930's, and have no intention of changing at all.

I dunno, I always like the phrase: you made the bed that you have to lay in.

yeag, don't let the bastards get you down.
I really don't think your gonna get much support on a cannabis board.
work your program.
get healthy .
it does work for some.

There are always going to be naysayers, and we've got a habitual one here in this thread.

Like you said, The Yeag. It works if you work it.

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Originally Posted by birdgirl73

Well, one of these days you or someone else you know may need him. He's a good one to know about, whether you yourself need a program or not. There are lots of folks who do, and part of the tradition--in fact it's the 12th step--is to help carry the message to others who might need it, that is, people who're struggling. Even folks who aren't close personal acquaintances of Bill W. can do that if they have an understanding of the program. That's part of what motivates my explanation here. In some small way, this thread might be helpful for others on these boards, and I don't refer to the people on this thread, who could benefit from a Step 12 reach-out. They're out there.

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(~cough~ somehow i think you have me in mind :p) technically, i'm sure a psychiatrist or psychologist would insist i become friends with him... becuase i fit the 'profile' but i'm also alot diffrent from most of his friends o.0 i'll explain how if you need/want me to tho...

Good lookin out Yeag ,
Been there , done that . Haven't been to a meeting in 6 yrs.
It takes a big person to go on their own and has a hell of a lot better chance of working when it's not court ordered or forced on someone by family or piers .
I went and admitted myself to outpatient / group and was only 1 of 2 ppl. that wern't forced into it . Act. wanted my life back / control . You -n- your girl know part of what I've been through , I guess it could be considered my 12th. step . I've been as close as any human being has ever been to hell itself . Im blessed my shortconmings wern't a byproduct of addiction .

You got someone that cares about you and Im sure that will now hopefuly influence some of your future decisions .
God Bless Bro.
Crispi :jointsmile:

[YOUTUBE]http://208.65.153.253/watch?v=I-pRv6sdsMI[/YOUTUBE]