CalMag and Thrive in bloom...

It's my understanding that N should still be fed, albeit in smaller quantities, during bloom but you need to knock it off in the last few weeks. Is this correct? Calmag is rated at 2-0-0 so phasing it out say halfway through bloom would be a good idea?

While I'm here, I should also ask if a similar rule exists for hormones a la Superthrive? I hear people mention they use ST all the way until harvest, but I've also picked up that it can actually hinder full errr, fruitilization! :D



Heh. Whatcha think?

I use CalMag all the way through.....using RO water and if you do use RO water I suggest you do the same. The superthrive q I cannot help you with...sorry.

No superthrive or thrive alive in flower unless you have to transplant, and if you do, only 1 dose.
Calmag is good though. That amount of N is not going to make your plants get all leafy or anything.

SuperThrive only helps with rooting, despite all the 'miracle' claims - using RO water is no guarantee of pH - I found out the hard way, my RO water is 4.5 ! - it seems heavily chlorinated city water acidifies, even if filtered thru a reverse-osmosis setup, like mine - TEST YOUR pH !! :smokin:

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Originally Posted by freewheelinfrank

SuperThrive only helps with rooting, despite all the 'miracle' claims - using RO water is no guarantee of pH - I found out the hard way, my RO water is 4.5 ! - it seems heavily chlorinated city water acidifies, even if filtered thru a reverse-osmosis setup, like mine - TEST YOUR pH !! :smokin:

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Frank - you seem to be pretty opinionated about Superthrive. I hope it's an educated opinion because I have a question for you. The pH on my water, RO and tap, is around 7.0 - 8.0. Sometimes I use Superthrive to bring the pH down. Good idea? Bad idea? Don't know?

Bad idea. Too much superthrive can, as my old grow shop guy used to say, 'put the plants in a coma'... Lots of action below ground, nothing up top. Frank is pretty damn experienced.

I assume SuperThrive would acidify your pH to some extent, but have not tested it, because I don't use the stuff much - according to all my local nurseries, and a friend-of-a-friend that is a working botanist, SuperThrive is nothing more than Vit. B1, and 'urea' (urine) - urea, urine, piss, whatever, is a strong nitrogen source, (which is why peeing on your plants is a no-no) - a strong source of nitrogen like that could lower pH - I had problems with many seedlings only after trying Superthrive (as directed, only a drop or two per gallon) - I researched it pretty heavily, and I do believe that it stimulates root growth - I mix one drop per gallon when rooting clones, and have experienced great success (but, I think my recent success is because of my new bubble-cloner, and not the SuperThrive alone) - IF you decide to use it, use it in weak solutions, as the instructions suggest - :smokin:

comatose plants do not sound good....damn Frank you've just popped my balloon. All those super claims on the bottle? So many that you need a magnifying glass to read them all? All because of pee? Thanks for destroying the world as I know it Frank. :D

I couldn't find my pH Down for a couple of days so I used Superthrive instead. The label says it's mostly acid, so I figured it probably wouldn't do much harm if used a few times - the "acid is acid" mentality.

Thanks for the advice, one and all.

I gotta say i agree with frank and stinky .I used to swear by superthrive although i to still use it in veg i have found that it hinders plants terribly in flower leading to fluffy buds and heavy growth stunt in some strains. Pharma can is right it works great as a ph down if your stuck ,Ive done this my self but wouldnt use it full term. i find that it works best early veg and rooting clones.I also use ro water and was finding it hard ajusting the cal mag from veg to flower but advanced nutrients have come up with sensi cal mag grow and bloom there research proved what i had been assuming that the plant uses differant ratios of cal mag in veg than it does in flower. tell me do any of you adjust cal mag from veg to flower.this product has sorted out a major headache for me.the postman.

Hey Dave,

I was taught to use CalMag at 50% of the total ppm all the way through until I reached the max amount of CalMag recommended on the bottle....which I haven't done yet. By the end of flowering I'm probably at about 500ppm of CM...which ends up being about 5-6ml per gallon. I've always measured it in ppms vs mls which, again, was the way I was taught. I have tons of faith in the guy who taught me to grow so I will stick with that. I use the botanicare line btw so don't know if that makes a difference. :) Also I recently asked the same people about coco issues and found that they recommend you use less CM for coco applications so perhaps the medium you use makes a difference as well. ;)

i thought the max amt. on the bottle was 5ml...my bottle says 2-5ml per gallon...i go half strength but believe i need to up my dose closer to 4 or 5 instead of the 2.5 ml per gal i regularly use (only during flowering)...most base nutrients solutions (Pro-Gro, Bio-Grow) have small amounts of cal-mag that i was taught was more than enough during veg. growth...but what the hell do i know? :thumbsup:

Yeah I just read the bottle again myself curious...I grow hydro so up to 10ml per gallon and I haven't hit that yet. For soil it says 5ml/gallon but then notice underneath it talks about an "accelerated formula" for soil....10ml/gal. ;)

Also I was taught that if you use tap water it usually will provide enough calcim etc..for your plants. I use the Botanicare line myself and was told that with RO water you really need the cal-mag to supplement...again hydro...fyi...:)

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Originally Posted by Weedhound

Also I was taught that if you use tap water it usually will provide enough calcim etc..for your plants. I use the Botanicare line myself and was told that with RO water you really need the cal-mag to supplement...again hydro...fyi...:)

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correct - Reverse-Osmosis units remove calcium and magnesium from the water - adding Cal-Mag or Dolomite Lime to the water replaces both, and will adjust the pH while doing so, so be sure to re-test your pH after any additives :smokin:

Frank how much dolomite lime would you add per gallon to correct a calcium def in a dwc system?

Ok; you all have my curiosity with this topic...are you talking Hydroponics or soil growing?

Well I'm in soil and don't use superthrive in bloom, but I do use calmag atm simply because my plants are recovering from a coco experiment gone horribly wrong, lol! :D

In the future, I don't expect I will need the calmag, as my old soil method included some bone meal and a bit if fish glop mixed in to the soil of the last transplant, and myco-stim to help release it, and I occasionally add either flora micro or algoflash to the feedings... like, once every week or 2.

LOL, one question I didn't even think to ask.....soil or hydro? Good for Zandor! :thumbsup:

exactly what im after SOIL.Im using ro water in soil just now and man is it giving me a sore head i cant seem to get it right so hope some of you can help put me at ease here i cracked the ro hydro with sensi cal mag now its soil giving me major stess.Is it possible to grow trouble free in soil with ro water?Im using sesi cal mag grow and bloom I know in coco and hydro ro water is the best option but im having mad problems getting it right.I presume ( correct me if im wrong please) that my soil has calcium and magnesium already added and my canna nutes already have added cal +mag so unless i know the pecentages of the cal mag in the soil i will never get it right?HELP LOL.My tap water run out at pH 7.2 and ppm 100 and after 24 hours getting defluorinated and airiated it comes down to 80 ppm pH 68 So what my best option people my weight has suffered trying to get this right and for the first time my plants stretched like mad.
what is the benefits of using ro in soil i know the hydro benefits but in soil i cant see that it helps with weight..any help would save me getting stresssed and keeling over with a heart attack.thank peepo.davey the postman

Using urine @ 1 TBS per gallon or water will provide all the N you need! I stopped buying GROW a few years ago. I do suppliment ThriveAliveB1, Liquid Karma.

When running dro run...same thing.

Superthrive at germination/early veg, is fine. I dont use it when I ramp up to bloom ferts tho, it sends the wrong signal to your plants metabolism.

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Originally Posted by postmandave

....Im using ro water in soil just now and man is it giving me a sore head i cant seem to get it right ...Is it possible to grow trouble free in soil with ro water?....

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Sure you can do it.. you just have to WANT it hard enough lol!

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Originally Posted by postmandave

I presume ( correct me if im wrong please) that my soil has calcium and magnesium already added and my canna nutes already have added cal +mag so unless i know the pecentages of the cal mag in the soil i will never get it right?HELP LOL.

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I'm not sure if those elements are already added to your soil but they should be present at some level... have you considered supplementing your soil with a bit of bone meal? That's a nice slow-release Ca source, and Mg problems if they still arise are SO easy to diagnose and fix quickly!

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Originally Posted by postmandave

My tap water run out at pH 7.2 and ppm 100 and after 24 hours getting defluorinated and airiated it comes down to 80 ppm pH 68 ...

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Well with tap water that nice, I'm not sure why you would really even bother with RO in soil?

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Originally Posted by postmandave

what is the benefits of using ro in soil i know the hydro benefits but in soil i cant see that it helps with weight..

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The benefit would be the same as hydro: CONTROL. But IMHO the best way to have control over a soil grow is to have control over the soil itself. You can make your job of watering/fertilizing as easy or as hard as you like just by adding and subtracting soil components!

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Originally Posted by postmandave

any help would save me getting stresssed and keeling over with a heart

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attack....[/QUOTE]

And we certainly do not want you to have a heart attack!

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Originally Posted by PlantBoxer

Superthrive at germination/early veg, is fine.

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I am VERY VERY careful of using superthrive too early, as you can definitely hurt seedlings with it. I pretty much wait on everything until it's time to feed anyway. Then again, my soil mix is on the hot side, so if your soil is very very mild, it might be fine.

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Originally Posted by postmandave

exactly what im after SOIL.Im using ro water in soil just now and man is it giving me a sore head i cant seem to get it right so hope some of you can help put me at ease here i cracked the ro hydro with sensi cal mag now its soil giving me major stess.Is it possible to grow trouble free in soil with ro water?Im using sesi cal mag grow and bloom I know in coco and hydro ro water is the best option but im having mad problems getting it right.I presume ( correct me if im wrong please) that my soil has calcium and magnesium already added and my canna nutes already have added cal +mag so unless i know the pecentages of the cal mag in the soil i will never get it right?HELP LOL.My tap water run out at pH 7.2 and ppm 100 and after 24 hours getting defluorinated and airiated it comes down to 80 ppm pH 68 So what my best option people my weight has suffered trying to get this right and for the first time my plants stretched like mad.
what is the benefits of using ro in soil i know the hydro benefits but in soil i cant see that it helps with weight..any help would save me getting stresssed and keeling over with a heart attack.thank peepo.davey the postman

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I use reverse-osmosis water in my soil grows - at first, I had problems, because I accepted the notion that RO water is neutral-pH, etc - WRONG :wtf: - lol, my tap water is an acidic 4.5, before AND after the RO treatment - RO also removes calcium and magnesium, that needs to be replaced - actually, the only advantage to RO filters on city tap water, is the removal of the chlorine - chlorine does NOT injure plants, but it does kill micro-organisms in the soil, some of which are beneficial to the plant - (I used chlorinated tap water on ALL of my plants for many years, not knowing any better, with no noticeable effect on the plants) - if your pH is 6.8, then just use it as is, I wouldn't bother with the RO, just aerate your water overnite, so the chlorine evaporates, and then you won't have to mess with calcium, magnesium, etc ... you should be good to go, in soil, anyway :thumbsup: (P.S. - the 'stretch' wouldn't have come from the water), either a light issue, or it just hit a growing spurt, they do that sometimes :smokin:

thanks guys this has sorted my head out i was only using the RO to see oif it would increase yeild but im not convinced it does. So tap water in soil it is i cant do with the stress at the moment . Stinky thanks again as always exellent info and frank thanks for ur input mate.If i was just doing a plant ot 2 then i would stick with it till i sorted the probs out . I thought i had messed up the whole grow trying to sort the cal mag probs out but since is stopped using the cal mag and the ro last week the plants have taken off they are week 7 12/12 and have at last started to put on some weight.heres a pic of the aurora indica and ak48 and nothernlights im doing at the momnet .thanks again dave

Postman your plants look luscious. Like a big cone of soft serve ice cream on a hot day.

PS Stinky , frank, anyone? do any of you know a good soil mix that would help my yeild currently i just use a local diy stores own brand soil with added perlite and vercumlite.thanks again guys and gals.dave



Thanks stinky you play a part in my yeilds i followed most of ur info to get to this stage so thanks gal.:thumbsup:

Hm, i know you are in the UK but if you can find a source of good compost that contains both cow or sheep manure AND plant material (not peat though), and mix it with 30% perlite, you are good to go.

so no peat at all in the mix? you know stinky that coment you made has just struck a cord with me
STINKY ATTIC IMHO the best way to have control over a soil grow is to have control over the soil itself. You can make your job of watering/fertilizing as easy or as hard as you like just by adding and subtracting soil components!
So of to the garden centre i go lol.Ive noticed some other stuff in soil LOAM is this good or bad and wetting agents i have avoided composts with these as i dont know the benefits .Should i add bone meal or anything else:smokin: iTS ABOUT TIME I STARTED MAKING UP A DECENT SOIL .THANKS DAVE

Dave you are doing fine man...keep up the good work and I answered you post on the other fourm too.

Calmag 5ml per gallon is normaly fine, and your tap water at 100 ppm is great.

Don't forget to give them a good flush at the end too.

Nice job Dave

Calcium is the secret to yields. Mixing it into the water is basically worthless as it is not mobil in the soil. In addition, you are creating a very alkaline crust that can make salts float, etc... not the way to go.

Calcium in the root system of a plant is translocatable.

This means that calcium being taken up by one root can move it to roots that do not have it. For this reason, I use the calcium tube technique. I stick a broom handle into the soil as deep as I can go (15" or so) and fill the hole with calcium carbonate along with a little worm castings on top of the hole. I make two or three holes at different distances from the plant, slowly circling around the plant, 1 1/2 inches, 3 inches and then at 6". It is amazing the root mass that develops around these calcium tubes. The roots will go as close as they want to the concentration of calcium that is optimum for them...

I would be careful about using a high magnesium product on the ground unless you have sandy soils. If you have a heavy clay type soil, magnesium will close the soil up and you will have excess water problems. Magnesium and potassium are very nasty salts.

Foliar magnesium is more effecient and is 100% translocatable throughout the plant using epsom salts at a 1% solution. Hit them foliarly with magnesium once a week with some sugar water. I use cane syrup, 4 tablespoons per gallon, it is much better than molasses as it is much higher sugar, it is in a simpler form and it not charged with so much potassium. You can drench with the same quantities in every watering. The storage organ of the plant is the root. Roots can pick up sugars directly. Sugars feed the soil and the roots. Sugar also kills nematodes.

When you pull up your plants you find it humorous the quantity of feeder roots smack dab in the middle of that calcium. With this technique you can use much less fertilizer as well as plants will have several times more roots, increasing their uptake efficiency by 1000 times or so.

Enjoy!

I think it is a very interesting idea, and the poster obviously knows what he's talking about. I agree 100% that it is best NOT to use Epsom salts in the soil or water, but to only give them as a foliar feed. As for the calcium tubes, I'd like to try that on my cucumbers this year- cukes and melons are Ca hogs.
But the thread is pretty old...