Pics Of Mutants. PH The Villian?

These are a couple of Spontanica clones that never became healthy, but I let them come along anyway since I had space over once my males were gone.
I gave up o them quite early since they were lagging behind so much in size.
3 Spontanica clones, all three were weak and stringy from day one and have never recovered properly, despite being treated to the exact same medium, nutes that the other plants have thrived in, flushes, etc.

Funnily, theyr'e flowering not too poorly, though i doubt I'll get more than 30g from them each. Even the flowers are whispy and strange looking.

Anyone know whats up with them?

There are a number of things that come to mind.
That plant is showing HORRIBLE stress and I can't believe it's alive... wow! Look at those single-bladed leaves!
-LEaves are cupping under... thing could be either totally rootbound or badly overdosed on Nitrogen. It could also be suffering from heat stress.
-single-bladed leaves persisting long after the usual period that clones throw them... possible problem in the cut itself... for ONCE I am going to actually throw polyploidy out there...hahahah!!! failure to repair RNA or a problem in chromosome disjunction at the cut site of the mother plant can lead to really fucked up looking mutations later on. Typically though the clone would just not survive at all. Polyploid plants that survive have been known to throw single bladed leaves no matter if they are suffering stress or not. I'm trying to think what my reference for this is, and I seem to remember it's in the Cannabis Breeder's Bible by Greg Green.
-signs of Ca deficiency in the pic on the right... pale mottling on the leaves.

My advice is just get those plants into the right sized pot, in good soil, and try to finish them.

stinky your knowledge is awesome . I see the cal deficiency you speak of on the pic to the right also if this is a polypoid then its my first glimpse of one. the only time ive ever seen as many single blade leafs is on a reveg wjite widow i done.so this is a sign of the polypoid stinky? very intresting.has your ph been causing you problems faithlessxxxx ? the postman.

Interesting info, stinky.
They're actually looking healthier than ever. I re-potted earlier and the roots were absolutely not bound, they were as small and stringy as the rest of the plant, though completely white.
They've been in 10l pots for about a month, they've also been heavily flushed, the medium is 50/50 good soil and perlite.

The other plants are just fine in the exact same medium, lights, environment, etc:
http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-gr...ml#post1404494

Whats polyploidy, Stinky?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by postmandave

.so this is a sign of the polypoid stinky?

---

I have never seen one in person, but there's a pic in that book I mentioned.
It's one of those weird mutations that sometimes you won't notice any difference, sometimes it will show. And worst, it's not the only possible cause of those leaves!!! Confused yet? Because I sure as heck am!!!

Found a neat link...
Marijuana Botany Chapter 3 - Genetics and Breeding of Cannabis
Gotta scroll down but there's info on chemically causing the mutation. However there is no info on changes in plant structure.
Edit: increased height of tetraploid plants..
But I just can't find any reference to the blade leaves! Now I'm getting curious.

this is some exellent info. this has some great info on breeding there stinky thatnks.the postman.

Quote:

---

The studies of H. E. Warmke et al. (1942-1944) seem to indicate that colchicine raised drug levels in Cannabis. It is unfortunate that Warmke was unaware of the actual psychoactive ingredients of Cannabis and was therefore unable to extract THC. His crude acetone extract and archaic techniques of bioassay using killifish and small freshwater crustaceans are far from conclusive. He was, however, able to produce both triploid and tetraploid strains of Cannabis with up to twice the potency of dip bid strains (in their ability to kill small aquatic organisms). The aim of his research was to "produce a strain of hemp with materially reduced marijuana content" and his results indicated that polyploidy raised the potency of Cannabis without any apparent increase in fiber quality or yield.

---

Errr...should I be trying to get a clone from this possible super strain???

I would man.

I looked on the BC growers' assoc site re: colchichine etc...
Seems to me the possibility of poisoning, plus the twitchiness of mutant plants (if they survive; seeds treated with the stuff have germ rates decreased by 90% from what I'm reading)... just not worth it.
That plant in the pic is so fucked that it would be out in my compost heap in no time flat. I have little tolerance for poor genes in my garden. Ehether or not this really is an instance of a mutation on the chromosonal level, or if it's just a lame plant that gets sick if you look at it funny, either way... ya know?

Quote:

---

That plant in the pic is so fucked that it would be out in my compost heap in no time flat.

---

No way. Its gonna give me about 20-30g. 20-30g compared to 0g in an empty space is a no brainer...

I'm actually thinking it might simply have had some insect problem. On closer inspection, Im seeing what may be some faint traces of web under a couple of the leaves. I've never had insect probs though, so Im not sure what that is.
Anyway, the whole harvest is going down in about 10 days, so I'm not really worried.

Aw don't worry; I don't think you should ditch it, I'm REALLY curious as to the end result and ya know I have so many girls that tossing a runt isn't a heartbreaker.

So you think you had mites and missed them while the infestation was at its worst?

Quote:

---

So you think you had mites and missed them while the infestation was at its worst?

---

Well, Im seeing some weird cobwebbish stuff, though very little, on the bottom side of a couple of leaves.
I doubt I would have missed an infestation if it had been on a larger scale.

Could that have this effect? And why did they, in that case, not spread to the other gals in the room?

I'm approaching stumpage.
I wish one of the experts would stop by to help. This is just getting weirder and weirder!

Ah, I see they have begun to spread.
Definitely Mites. Sprayed down with "Pyrex -N" which contains the agents: "pyrethrum"and "piperonylbutoxid". So thats a seperate problem, probably unrelated to the weird chromosomic chaos in the Spontanicas.
It hurt a little to use chems on my gals, and the agent doesnt leave the plant for 15 days. I was planning to start harvesting in 10-15, so I guess I'm left with little choice now. Apparently, after a lot of googling, the residue can be removed somewhat by rinsing with water the buds after harvest, if I need to harvest a little earlier. These agents are apparently used on infected strawberries.

On the upside, that'll stop me from snipping small buds until they're ready...

Hey faithless,
Pyrethrum by itself is gone VERY quickly under intense light. It is actually very very safe.
The piperonyl butoxide is an activator that is why you have to wait so long.
If you can find a product that contains ONLY pyrethrins, you are much better off for use on a flowering plant.
Have you considered a bug bomb?
The one I use that is ONLY pyrethrum is made by Raid and you can get it at home depot. the box is blue and yellow I recall.
I would avoid using the product with the activator this close to harvest.

Wow, how interesting, thanks.
How much can one pour on before damaging the plant?

Pour on what?
Colchichine, pyrethrin, ???
Bug bomb is not a pour on kind of thing, just stick in a cup of water and it fogs your grow area and poisons every bug in there.