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I think that they are pandering, and giving the murderer the fame and forum that he wanted, which is sickening. All we need are other people with persecution issues, loners who feel scorned and unheard, to see that and think it's a good way to get back and get famous. I just think it is wrong for the news media to show him ranting.
I agree with you on that, Demeter. I think NBC should have kept that private, too. He clearly had the intention of making a spectacle of himself by mailing that video and pictures to NBC between the time of the first and second shootings.
I worry about all the crazed copycats who must be out there, especially at this particular time of year on American college campuses, when the crazy factor is high anyway, and I worry about their being influenced. I also feel like the extra publicity probably further demonizes his family and the others who knew he was nuts and yet weren't able to get him the help he needed.
I agree with both of you, i was just reading a story about this online. I think it's shamelessly sensationalist...by all means lets the police use the tape to help their investigations, but showing it on television is indeed pandering to this psychos egotistical needs and disrespecting the people who died in this tradgedy. After all why does the killer deserve more news coverage than the victims?
Two things. I see nothing wrong with them releasing the video, it helps us understand him a little more.
Secondly, if there is a copy cat, hopefully people will realize the importance of rushing the gunman. If ten people in the class would have rushed him at once while he was reloding his little hand guns, a lot less people would have died.
Same with 911, everyone just sat there with the exception of one plane while a group of men with box cutters proceeded to kill 2,000 plus people. People need to be taught how to protect their fucking selves and need to realise that if they do nothing they will die!
I don't mean to insult those who died in this event, but we as people need to learn how to handle situations such as this. He can't shoot all ten people bum rushing him!
Back to the point though, this whole situation is horrible, but at the same time very amazing. We all have a right to know what was going through his mind, and the type of person he is.
he was a weirdo. totally.
but i dont care if they are showing the video or not. i just think this is gonna be another story that lasts forever, unfortunately.
anna nicole smith?
i think so too.
fuck cnn, read the paper.
It definately helped me understand what was going on in his head during the time. I think we wouldnt hvae known what he was thinking and we couldve all just assumed he's was a psycho without a cause.Quote:
Originally Posted by JaggedEdge
Instead we see him for what he is. A psycho with a shitty, crazy cause.Quote:
Originally Posted by crudemood
i'm all for the news not showing the killers face, releasing his name, or saying anything about his so called cause. this prick didnt have a cause, he was a coward who couldnt handle life, lets not feel sorry for him. maybe if all the other wack jobs out there realize that if they get sick of life and go on a rampage that no-one will ever know their story. maybe it could save things like this from happening.
this whole incident has made me realize how absolutely horrible the media is.
i am sticking with the news paper from now on.
Money and greed fuels the media,,,not morals...
The newspaper won't put a picture of him in it? I don't understand why all y'all are so sensitive. It was a horrible act, but it is NEWS! What do you expect the news to report, only happy and pleasent events? The world is a shitty place, the news is the place where they report all the shitty shit happening in our shitty world. It isn't a matter of making him famous. The fact is, he made history, he will be studied, and he will be the focus of a lot of attention. I'm not a huge fan of the media, but they can't be blamed for releasing a video at least half the U.S. wanted to see.Quote:
Originally Posted by higher4hockey
To say that his picture shouldn't even be shown is just unreal and very idealistic. I wouldn't even say idealistic. Why is it so bad we know what he looks like? We know have a face for the piece of shit who did the crime.
jagged~ the point im trying to make, is maybe if they stopped plastering this jerks face all over everything , the next one wouldnt be so inclined to start shooting....
maybe im wrong who knows...
We had a copycat caller incidence in Rutgers today...
1. they let the students go to school as normal
2. they locked them in
3. they took everyones lifeline "their cell phones"
this copycat called the school before it was in session... with asinine procedures afloat protecting our citizens what the fuck does it matter if a video clip is shown...
I think their are deeper motives than fame though. It is news and it will be in the news for a long time. I support not showing victims faces on the news. But when the criminal is shown, I don't see it as fame, but public humiliation. Very few people watch the news and think of him as their hero. You may be right as well, but I do believe that there are motives stronger than fame.
Yea but think about it as if you were actually there. those 10 kids that rush the shooter, assuming they will be able to organize any kind of an attack in the first place, know that there is a good chance many of them will be shot. Most people are probably ducking for cover not putting themselves in the line of fire.Quote:
Originally Posted by JaggedEdge
Im glad they are showing stuff about the killer. It gives me a better idea of just what happened. They are almost crossing the line, because thats all they are talking about now, but the buzz will die down soon.
This story has made some people really jumpy and loco, don't ya think?
if we did not learn anything from Colmbine how the fuck do you think we will now???
hindsight is 20 20... Foresight is Null and Void...
Never the less a cause.. I'd rathar him have a cause than just random sensless killing.Quote:
Originally Posted by JaggedEdge
he was mentally unstable PERIOD!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by crudemood
Anyone can have a cause......I shot him CAUSE he looked at me funny. I don't mind the video....I do see it as a learning thing. It will help people in the future when they encounter the next one. And there WILL be a next one.
I disagree Skink that we learned nothing from Columbine. We will also will learn from this....hence I find the video useful.
Here is what I feel so many people DON'T learn.....yes, it CAN happen to you!!!!! :(
We learned NOTHING!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaggedEdge
exactly. what is it with people these days. the act like because one person has a gun they are defenseless, when theres 20 other people in the room
agreed with not showing the video. What creeps me out about the video is he didn't seem unusual to me. Every highschool has that creepy loner kid that dispises everyone and thinks they could be some kind of super soldier that could kick all these fools asses. I think Cho demonstrates to these kids that they could actually fulfill all the dark fantasies theyve had if they tried
Society needs to learn that family is the most important thing for humanity... the more we parents run off to abtain the elusive dream the more this shit is going to happen...
You guys I'm having trouble with you pointing the finger at the victims; especially since none of us was there and don't know what happened in that room. It is simply not fair to make judgements like that on people in life or death situations.
Skink....I would love to sit down and talk to you about why you feel that way and get your input but this thread obviously is not the place so I reluctantly will let the opportunity pass.
this is nuts
thats the problem,,,it's never going to be the place... showing this vid does shit for any cause...Quote:
Originally Posted by Weedhound
There will be another.....no doubt in my mind. But maybe some have been stopped from what (I hope) we have learned.
I'm not pointing the finger at the victims. The shooter alone has the blood on his hands. The point I'm trying to make is this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Weedhound
It needs to be implanted in our brains that if we are in that situation, there is a 95% chance we will die. The Columbine shooters, and this kid shot anyone they chose to, they didn't need to be provoked. If we should learn anything from this it is that you can't lie on the floor waiting for the calvary to show up. I'm not insulting the victims for not fighting back, but I would hope that other people can see how fewer people could have died if someone tried to take control.
This guy shot most of his victims multible times, I'm sure it was likely he had his back to someone at some point.
Now granted a hand gun is much more intimidating than a box cutters, but in the future people need to realize they will likely die if they do nothing. May as well try and end shit like this in the future while you are still alive.
All that said, I feel real bad for the victims and their family, but hopefully we can learn something. Most likely nothing will change... but we can hope.
Amen to that.
Hmmm, my problem is that I read the paper, and now I have to go track down this video.
It seems that this "message" is what the killer considered most important. I mean, he made sure to send it before going off to continue mass homicide. He guaranteed that people would be paying attention.
Now a lot of people seem to think that by granting any attention to his message we're letting the killer win, that he's getting what he wants. But he's dead, and so are a lot of other people, and it might be nice to know why, if only so that events like this occur less often.
the media does what it wants to. they have no sympathy for anyone that was directly affected by what happend on Monday and 9/11 for that matter. they pry and pry at people to get them to break down on national television. i was watching nbc or whatever and wolf blitzer was interviewing a guy who's daughter was murdered in the second part of the shootings and kept asking "What are you feeling right now?" "Do you have anger towards this kid?" etc. What the fuck is wrong with him, this guy was barely holding himself together and he just kept hounding him about it. It's absolutely sickening to see what the media has become. I hate watching the news and prefer reading a news paper any day just because you don't have to actually hear/see them constantly prying at these poor people. If I am ever affected by a tragedy of this sort and one came up to me and tried doing that I will not be held responsible for my actions.
Just let these people remember their lost loved ones and be able to have the privacy they want. Let them come talk to you, don't go looking for them and bother them, that just plain fucking rude!
**Wish my 100th post didn't end up having to be a fucking rant but i needed to do so :(
I believe that when we air videos of a ranting insane person, we only encourage other unstable individuals, and copycat crimes have proven this. We don't need to see that in order to "understand" - the man was irrational and homocidal.
It isn't a matter of understanding- the people who reached out to help him were rejected. I know what it is like to try to help someone who displays all the characteristics of a sociopathic narcissist. I have taught college students for the past 13 years, and I experienced what it was like to sit across the desk from a student who was easily the most disturbed person I've ever known. His behavior caused anxiety among students and faculty, and he was eventually admitted to a local mental hospital. Before he left our school, he had something nasty to say about every teacher who tried to help him. I wonder if he watched the news coverage. I wonder what he thinks of it.
In class yesterday, we talked about what we would do if someone burst into the classroom with a gun. This is a small group of mostly ESL students, many of whom are the first in their family to go to college. They work full-time jobs and carry full-time course loads; some are single parents. They are all dear to me, and our discussion left me feeling both anxious and leaden, a feeling I recognize from all the other school shootings. It hurts more each time for me, not less.
School is a place that should be safe, for people to share and learn. But the fact is there is very little faculty or administrators can do unless a crime occurs, even when the red flags are everywhere. Most everybody knew he was disturbed, but the hospital discharged him simply with the advice to get outpatient counseling, though he had been admitted for a 48 hr hold as a threat to self and others.
There are so many layers to this problem, and the media only compounded the problem.
Hey Demeter,
I'm actually leaning more twords yours and those who agree with you way of thinking.
I was on youtube last night and saw a video from some jackass with the shooters sn. He made a tribute video to the asshole... It made me a little sick. Plus the bomb threats that are following this along with the bomb threats that followed Columbine...
Thanks JE - I really wish I hadn't seen the killer video- those eyes, that glimpse into the abyss. It's horrifying how many people get off on it... evil encourages evil.
I'm going to work in the garden today, and maybe digging in the dirt will be therapeutic. :hippy:
Demeter I do see your point and it seems to be an extremely popular opinion not to show this guys stuff. Your discussion about school and students is an excellent one. I was angered to hear that this young man had caused so many problems on campus....yet was allowed to continue there anyway. What you said really helped me understand WHY he was still there despite SO MANY people sensing the danger he presented. Students not going to class. Teachers threatening to resign. What I would like to know is why HIS rights were so carefully protected at the expense of everyone elses safety.
I firmly believe that these "people" are entrenched in our society and ALWAYS HAVE BEEN. They also always WILL BE. The thoughts and actions presented by these people are not going to be caused by a video, X-game, or a porno magazine. Do these things FEED these psychos? Of course they do. Will not having access to these things stop them? I do not believe so....not for one single second. When a mind can create the types of things people do to one another they don't need a video game etc. They can think that shit up all by themselves....guaranteed.
My point with the video is this....like JE said before we are responsible for ourselves. Any information we can get that will help (us...not society...I am talking about individuals here) please let me know. Everything I see and everything I learn will help me if I ever somehow find myself in a similiar type of horrible nightmare. Stuffing ugly things away does not fix them.
One last thought of mine that I'm sure means nothing. If this man had been acting in ANY of the same ways in ANY other public place he would have been removed and not allowed to return. Taking sly photos, stalking women, etc...try that one in a grocery store or something. They'd be on your ass in one minute escorting you from the store. Why is this different on a college campus? Will it stop him......of course not. But it certainly may have made some people going to that school safer. So then he's out wandering in society.....which is where the video comes in. Because society is out where I am. And I want to know what to look for.
PS your point about eveyone trying to help this guy only to be rejected is a monumental one to me. That is why I say these guys will always be around.
Who cares if it's 'what he would want'? He's dead. Everyone sees that he's a "sicko," so why would it matter? Do you think that it being on the news for a week straight isn't making him infamous enough as it is? In fact, I have seen it so much on the news that I am sick of hearing about it. I think that it's fair for us to see it, and what was going through his mind when he was thinking it through... why he did it, what he thought of the people who he shot, etc. I am pretty damn sure that it has something to do with racism. If that's true, then it's probably better off that they got shot. Everyone has a breaking point, and he probably reached it, which is why he shot those people. But to those who were innocent and were killed or wounded, then that's really unfortunate. But I still think that the videos should be shown. It's not going to cause people to be 'copycats'. It has been on the news for a looong time now, so do you think that some fucked up poser wasn't already planning their 'copy cat' attack after the first time it was heard of on the news? Really, the video(s) need(s) to be shown. Plus, it's already on youtube--so what difference would it make anyway? :)
SHOW IT! The idea that showing a video of this guy will cause more violence is just like saying that a video game or a TV show would cause violence... which is obviously untrue. Also, let's think about something here. Perhaps it wasn't he who was sick, but the environment. Just a thought.
First of,u dont have any rights to call him a "sicko" and secondly,based on wat im seeing right now u dont know waht is his purpose on doing it, thirdly theres nothing wrong showing those vids on NBC coz wats the point calling it news and current affairs if they show vids older than yo momma,... Get a fuckin common sense u jerk
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaggedEdge
For the most part i agree but you forgot. the I will sue you for defending you castle attatude that seems to infect the system these days ..worst part you cripple someone for breaking in your house ...Which they should not have been in, in the first place sues you and wins or you go to jail for a second degree murder charge or man slaughter thats a big problem theses days in some parts. :(
That's one thing the south has going for it. I can defend my property with out to much worry of getting sued or arrested. You can't just shoot someone who pisses you off, but if someone is in your house and you kill them, you may go to court over it, but in most cases you will get off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Pot Head
I think attacking the gunman in theory is the answer but I do realise that when someone busts into your classroom shooting, your brain might not be capable of working that way. I really think schools should start having drills.
It would be hard to organize for a college campus, but high schools should have no problem. Just add them into the fire drills. Places of learning seem to be a popular place to release aggration these days. :(