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So far,
I have been able to verify that this lady is in fact a real person that lives in Alaska and is whom she claims to be. That's about it.
As for verifing any of the claims she makes, that is a different story. So far the only things that I can find are solely about the "letter" that she has written.
So I ask again.
Can any of the claims made in the letter be verified, at all. Especially since at the end she states that she can't.:wtf:
A jackass would have an 80 percent approval rateing in most any state if it gave everybody $1200 bucks.
try Snopes
what scares me about the McCain/Palin ticket being elected (besides their christian/fascist viewpoints) is that, and I'm sorry to say it, McCain doesn't have much time left on the ol' clock, and as the governor of a small town of 6000 people being Palin's only experience (among other 'blemishes' in her record)... one has to wonder what McCain and his cronies were thinking picking her, as she is further from president material than karl rove is from a full head of hair.
also, alaska being kinda close to russia doesn't make one experienced in matters of foreign policy
Really? So what's up with Bush's approval rating?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Figment
I did "try" Snopes. They confirm, she is whom she says she is. They do not confirm any of the information contained in the letter.
Try Again.:D
You might have missed the very first post of the thread. I guess it's her only experience, besides this:Quote:
Originally Posted by MIDNIGHTspecial
So let's review.
1. governor of the great state of Alaska,
2. mayor of my hometown.
3. actual responsibilities. So you mean she couldn't just be "present" and still be considered doing her job. You mean she was accountable for what happened and did not have the luxury of being 1 of 100 people that "worked" on stuff! Oh!
You could stop right there as for experience, and argueably she has more executive experience than Obama or Biden for that matter. But let's go on.
4. I took on the old politics as usual in Juneau ... when I stood up to the special interests, the lobbyists, big oil companies, and the good ol' boys network.
5.
I came to office promising major ethics reform, to end the culture of self-dealing. And today, that ethics reform is the law.
Again, she was actually responsible for specific legislation with regard to this subject, NOT 1 OF 100 THAT VOTED YEA OR NAY! AND THEN CLAIMED ALL THE CREDIT! I believe this is called "governing".
6. by request if possible and by veto if necessary.
She has actually used the power of the veto whilst governing, and understands how to use it to get results!
7.
Our state budget is under control.
We have a surplus.
(Has Obama even run a small business? Let alone a city, or state, let alone budget any of them, and do it successfully? Um, no.)
8.And I have protected the taxpayers by vetoing wasteful spending: nearly half a billion dollars in vetoes.
9. I suspended the state fuel tax,
10. and championed reform to end the abuses of earmark spending by Congress.
11. I told the Congress "thanks, but no thanks," for that Bridge to Nowhere.
12.
And despite fierce opposition from oil company lobbyists, who kind of liked things the way they were, we broke their monopoly on power and resources.
As governor, I insisted on competition and basic fairness to end their control of our state and return it to the people.
13.
I fought to bring about the largest private-sector infrastructure project in North American history.
And when that deal was struck, we began a nearly forty billion dollar natural gas pipeline to help lead America to energy independence.
14. we Americans need to produce more of our own oil and gas.
And take it from a gal who knows the North Slope of Alaska: we've got lots of both.
Wow, guess there is a reason she is the most popular sitting govenor in the U.S. today. This is just the short list, and by the way, she is just the VP on the ticket, IMHO, her experience and accomplishments make Obama's pale in comparisson, and make it laughable that he is even running for president. I invite anyone to post a list of Obama's accomplishments and experience that qualify him for even a VP position, let alone the presidency. LMFAO ALL DAY LONG!!!:D
Wow, that was super funny the first time I heard it on comedy central. BTW, that's the only place I have heard it, aside from a few others repeating it and passing it off as if it were suggested by someone from the GOP.:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by MIDNIGHTspecial
I'd guess that none of the founding fathers believed in "witches". As far as atheists, which he was not, Jefferson had some very kind things to say about them, and in fact said that they could be more advanced than people who believed in religion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud
Jefferson and Washington were Deists. They did not believe in a personal god, savior gods, or anything supernatural in the Bible. I do not subscribe to this belief (Deism), but for their time they were way ahead of religion - and more advanced in their thinkiing than average even today.
The type of belief system that Palin has is in direct opposition to almost everything that Jefferson stood for. Here's some choice quotes from him regarding religion:
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors.
-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823
It is between fifty and sixty years since I read it [the Apocalypse], and I then considered it merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to General Alexander Smyth, Jan. 17, 1825
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear.
-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787
I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Hopkinson, March 13, 1789
History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.
-Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.
As you say of yourself, I too am an Epicurian. I consider the genuine (not the imputed) doctrines of Epicurus as containing everything rational in moral philosophy which Greece and Rome have left us.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Short, Oct. 31, 1819
Priests...dread the advance of science as witches do the approach of daylight and scowl on the fatal harbinger announcing the subversions of the duperies on which they live.
-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Correa de Serra, April 11, 1820
Jefferson and Washington were Deists. They did not believe in a personal god, savior gods, or anything supernatural in the Bible. I do not subscribe to this belief (Deism), but for their time they were way ahead of religion - and more advanced in their thinkiing than average even today.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho4Bud
The type of belief system, and mentality, that Palin has is in direct opposition to almost everything that Jefferson stood for. Here's some choice quotes from him regarding religion:
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors.
-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823
It is between fifty and sixty years since I read it [the Apocalypse], and I then considered it merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to General Alexander Smyth, Jan. 17, 1825
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear.
-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787
I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Hopkinson, March 13, 1789
History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes.
-Thomas Jefferson to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.
As you say of yourself, I too am an Epicurian. I consider the genuine (not the imputed) doctrines of Epicurus as containing everything rational in moral philosophy which Greece and Rome have left us.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Short, Oct. 31, 1819
Founders were not Christians
One of the most common statements from the "Religious Right" is that they want this country to "return to the Christian principles on which it was founded". However, a little research into American history will show that this statement is a lie. The men responsible for building the foundation of the United States had little use for Christianity, and many were strongly opposed to it. They were men of The Enlightenment, not men of Christianity. They were Deists who did not believe the bible was true.
When the Founders wrote the nation's Constitution, they specified that "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." (Article 6, section 3) This provision was radical in its day-- giving equal citizenship to believers and non-believers alike. They wanted to ensure that no single religion could make the claim of being the official, national religion, such as England had. Nowhere in the Constitution does it mention religion, except in exclusionary terms. The words "Jesus Christ, Christianity, Bible, and God" are never mentioned in the Constitution-- not once.
The Declaration of Independence gives us important insight into the opinions of the Founding Fathers. Thomas Jefferson wrote that the power of the government is derived from the governed. Up until that time, it was claimed that kings ruled nations by the authority of God. The Declaration was a radical departure from the idea of divine authority.
The 1796 treaty with Tripoli states that the United States was "in no sense founded on the Christian religion" (see below). This was not an idle statement, meant to satisfy muslims-- they believed it and meant it. This treaty was written under the presidency of George Washington and signed under the presidency of John Adams.
http://freethought.mbdojo.com/titleXI.jpg
None of the Founding Fathers were atheists. Most of the Founders were Deists, which is to say they thought the universe had a creator, but that he does not concern himself with the daily lives of humans, and does not directly communicate with humans, either by revelation or by sacred books. They spoke often of God, (Nature's God or the God of Nature), but this was not the God of the bible. They did not deny that there was a person called Jesus, and praised him for his benevolent teachings, but they flatly denied his divinity. Some people speculate that if Charles Darwin had lived a century earlier, the Founding Fathers would have had a basis for accepting naturalistic origins of life, and they would have been atheists. Most of them were stoutly opposed to the bible, and the teachings of Christianity in particular.
Yes, there were Christian men among the Founders. Just as Congress removed Thomas Jefferson's words that condemned the practice of slavery in the colonies, they also altered his wording regarding equal rights. His original wording is here in blue italics: "All men are created equal and independent. From that equal creation they derive rights inherent and inalienable." Congress changed that phrase, increasing its religious overtones: "All men are created equal. They are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights." But we are not governed by the Declaration of Independence-- it is a historical document, not a constitutional one.
If the Christian Right Extremists wish to return this country to its beginnings, so be it... because it was a climate of Freethought. The Founders were students of the European Enlightenment. Half a century after the establishment of the United States, clergymen complained that no president up to that date had been a Christian. In a sermon that was reported in newspapers, Episcopal minister Bird Wilson of Albany, New York, protested in October 1831: "Among all our presidents from Washington downward, not one was a professor of religion, at least not of more than Unitarianism." The attitude of the age was one of enlightened reason, tolerance, and free thought. The Founding Fathers would turn in their graves if the Christian Extremists had their way with this country.
Consider this: IF indeed the members of the First Continental Congress were all bible-believing, "God-fearing" men, would there ever have been a revolution at all?
"For rebellion as is the sin of witchcraft." 1 Samuel, 15:23
Would they have initiated a rebellion if indeed they thought it was equal to witchcraft (a crime punishable by death)? But that's only the tip of the iceberg. The New Testament gives clear instructions to Christians on how to behave when ruled under a monarchy, as were the Founders.
1 Peter 2:13: "For the Lord's sake accept the authority of every human institution, whether of the emperor as supreme, or of governors, as sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to praise those who do right."
Paul wrote in Romans 13:1: "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities; for there is no authority except from God, and those authorities that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resist authority resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment."
The Founders clearly did not heed what was written in the bible. If they were in fact "good" Christians, there would never have been an American Revolution. Compare the above passages with the Declaration of Independence:
"...when a long train of abuses and usurpations... evinces a design to reduce (the people) under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security..." Anyone who can think for themselves can see that the Founders were not Christians.
Our Founding Fathers Were NOT Christians
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIDNIGHTspecial
Although that is false. Maybe you could elaborate on Obama's long list of accomplishments/experience/record. I would love to hear it! :D
It's going to take a lot more than $1200... and handed out a lot more than once to get that approval rating up :jointsmile: What did they try to give out? $600 to a single person household? Hahaha that won't even buy HALF of my prescriptions every month... not to mention a couple zips of something stinky.Quote:
Originally Posted by 8182KSKUSH
Nahh, in all seriousness though... approval should never be purchased. It should be earned.
As for this "tell-all" letter? As potentially damaging as some people may see it... it really is just a personal opinion and shouldn't be jumped on. Now if the information is verified... different story. Some of it is very interesting.
The only other thing that I notice, that is being overlooked, is motive.
- What motive do people in politics have by supporting her and defending her history? Potential career advancement, financial gain, political influence, private interest.
- What motive does this woman have for discrediting one of the most media covered women in the WORLD right now? She is discovered as a liar, career ruined, community friction, publicly slanders her fellow Alaskan who could potentially run the United States.
To me, it seems a bit rediculous for her to engage in such a public discussion while including so many verifiable facts in it. With information so readily available as it is now it should only take about 12-24 hours to verify the information in the letter. BUT... some people are stupid, so I can't rule that she is just a bitter biotch. I'm simply trying to make some sense in this crazy crazy world..... :stoned:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8182KSKUSH
I can help out with that..Here ya go.
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I think that about sums it up. Feel free to add anything I may have missed.