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obviously it is if, you read the thread. If there wasnt enough room, do you think he would be growing plants like that? I can attest myself as I have copied tranoble's setup and they are thriving wonderfully. The no drainage seems to be working just fine. Water about every 2 days.Quote:
Originally Posted by JackdaWack
the soil is listed on the first 2 pages.
In your picture it dosent look like you lined your table with plastic. If not you might want to do that next time. The wood will probably rot if you dont. I like to see that someone is using my info. Let me know if you need any more help. Good luck.
Oh yeah I just realized that im using a different food schedule now. I will post the new food schedule in the next hour.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racerx
damn that looks good
I've been drooling over your thread for the last 2 days...I'm thinking of using the bed idea for a scrog I have to make really custom to fit the space.
Would coir work as well with the depth of only 5". I don't know how much experience you have with it but I am falling for this as my sole medium. should coir be any deeper? I'm pretty baked right now from the best honey of an oil I've smoked so I hope this isn't a post answered I've skimmed over already.
The only prob I have had with coir is the dry out/dampening off in seed germination...didn't know how this would affect a whole bed in sealed area.
Thanks for bearing with me and I want to give you some great props for plants that looked loved and the best 11 page thread I've read in one sitting.
Hugs and happy tokes,
;)
Tran, they are indeed lined. The soil level drops and compacts when you water it, so the plastic is more exposed now. No water gets between the plastic and wood. Dehumidifier standing ready if its ever needed, but levels are fine right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tranoble
Id love to see that new food schedule. Im playing with Grow, Bloom, Micro, Vita, Big Bud, and Excel. Also that "super soil" crap wasnt used. Its just a bag. I went with Ocean Forest as I have exceptional results from it and it has a good bit of veg nutes.
Heres that new food schedule. This alot stronger. Two feeds one water. Two feeds one water. And so on..... This is based on 50 gal Res.
Micro Grow Bloom
WEEK 1 400 200 800
WEEK 2 500 250 1000
WEEK 3 600 300 1200
WEEK 4 700 350 1400
WEEK 5 800 400 1600
WEEK 6 900 450 1800
WEEK 7 1000 500 2000
WEEK 8 WATER
Hey tranoble,,Im on the same AN recipe. Im using the AN bloom booster instead of Big Bud. The plants are loving their product. I too, are using 5-6" beds of soil. (Drainless) No problems at all. Are you tinkering around with the recipe so as to not go over the total PPM's. ie, raising the Micro, dropping the Grow,,,ect?
what about your additives like big bud and all that ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tranoble
Additives all stay the same.
Tranoble, what difference would it make if you did everything the same but didn't use the sealed room method and Co2? Have you ever done this before and what do you think the decrease in production would be? I am really just curious how much benefit Co2 really has compared to no Co2. I am sure it is a big deal as your crop looks amazing but I thought I would ask your professional opinion. Also, what are your thoughts on Co2 use?
I have read the entire thread from day 1 and I must say it is the best and most informative thread I have read in some time. Thanks for sharing this info with the grow community!
TGT
Using this setup and no Co2 would work im just not sure how well. The plants give off Co2 when the lights are out and take it in when the lights are on. With no Co2 burner the plants would not be taking in very much Co2. If your not going to use a Co2 burner you might want to use an intake and out take. The Co2 burner makes a huge difference. If you ask me Co2 burner (with glow plug) and a Co2 computer is a must have. Allso if you are going to use Co2 allways set your PPM on your Co2 computer to the same as your PPM that your food is at.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Green Thumb
On the topic of CO2 I think I have a good question for you tranoble. But before I pick your brain, I want to say super thanks for this info and I have been able to utilize some of your methods which have proven very valuable to me.
I am using a digital CO2 ppm meter/controller and I am trying to zero in on a final system for enrichment. I have a burner but my cooling system cant handle its operation if I am trying to keep ppms up for the entire light cycle. I can definatly hit target ppms range and I can stay there for a couple hours before the burner heats the room over the air conditioners capacity.
My room is a "sealed" room (thanks to this thread alone by the way), although calling it air tight is kind of pushing it, I have tried to plug every in and out to the room but I can watch the CO2 ppm meter after either a burn or injecting CO2 that the ppms really take a dive as soon as the source is shut off. I can watch humidity and I wish it would take as much of a dive as CO2 does but it does not.. which proves the room is like 99.something% sealed.
I guess what im asking, do you see CO2 ppms take a dive as soon as you shut off your burner? Like if I shut off the burner at a stabilized 1500ppm I can watch ppms dive to 1000ppms in about 5mins. Is this normal? I thought it was a sealing issue but I have "great stuff"'d the hell out every crack and I think its very tight. I would hate to think how fast I would use up CO2 cylinders.. but anyways..
It brings to question, I have read many books which preach the 4 time saturatuon per light cycle method and I havent run into any reputable info that supports a constantly increased ppm steady through the whole light cycle and you are the only one I know that reccomends it. Now, it makes complete sense, and moreover I really respect your insights. Im stuck right now with making a decision to upgrade cooling (buying an even larger AC unit) just to run constant increased ppms or going old school with 4 times a light cycle and I would really apreciate your input.
Your words are like gold to me so I would really appreciate your opinion on this!
Your Co2 should never drop to 1000ppm when you have your computer set at 1500ppm. Using the Co2 computer should turn your burner on again as soon as it drops to 1450ppm then when your room gos back up to 1550ppm it will kick off the burner again. You might wanna try putting your Co2 sensor closer to your burner. My sensor is only a few feet away. I use about two 20lb tanks for 6.5 weeks of bud then my Co2 is turned off for the remainder of the bud cycle. What kind of burner are you using? Does your burner have a glow plug or a pilot light? With the sealed room you must use a burner with a glow plug.
Dont worry about sealing your room so tight. Plastic and tape is enough. For your heat problem you burner might not be big enough for the size of your room. I allways buy a bigger burner so my room fills up with Co2 faster causing less heat. Buying a bigger burner would be cheaper than buying a new A/C.
As for your humidy being high. Do you have a dehumidifer? I am really carefull with my dehumidifer. I use a 40 pint dehumidifer. If the humidity is to low it will dry out your leaves and make them yellow. I try to keep my humidy at about 70-75% when the lights are on. Right now because of the time of year I dont even have my dehumidifer plugged in.
I hope I have answered your questions. Im glad to try to help you out. Good luck.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron385
A small question. Do you ever worry about having to flush plants using the box method. I wouldn't want to use it because you cannot flush. I guess this isn't a problem cuz you know what your doing, but what about us noobs should we wait till we know what were doing until we use the box?
I flush with water for about 10 days. Why would you wait till you know what your doing to use the box method? Its so easy a 9yr old could grow this way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by harris7
not the final flush, just a normal flush. Say if you over nute. with the box there isn't any way, to my knowledge, to flush out the soil
I sometimes I use final flush but i think that stuff might be a rip off. If I feel like my plants have over nute I guess give them water till they look ok again. Some people I know drill a hole in each corner of there table. I get over 2 lbs a light so I dont think this is a problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by harris7
You can flush using soil (medium) just like in hydro, by using phd water.... Where are you getting your infomation?Quote:
Originally Posted by harris7
Have you not read this thread??Quote:
Originally Posted by pmorris
Harris7 was asking about the lack of drainage. I think we know that you can flush using pH'd water. The issue isn't about how to flush..just technically how that would work in a box with no drains....
I"m bitchy and stoned so don't take this the wrong way, I just hate to have tranoble waste time responding to post that has nothing to do with the convo., I"m just eagerly awaiting his response to the flushing/box issue as I truely admire his work.
Also I'm pissed that chat is down...now back to the issue at hand,
Winks
you must be really high because having a drain or not you can still flush your plants if you over nute... And that has nothing to do with me reading the thread... I was responding to the guys question after tran answered both of his questions. obviously he didnt know that if you read his first question. "I wouldn't want to use it because you cannot flush." - harris7Quote:
Originally Posted by Winks
has nothing to do with the convo. ?? we are talking about flushing... you chiming in to talk shit has nothing to do with the convo. Maybe you need to read the post and then the response. And think about what you are saying.
I agreed with Winks after I read your thread. If you know how to flush in a box with no drainage… please go on
You are flushing your plants by feeding them phd water. Having a drain or not doesnt mean anything because if you are watering when the topsoil is dry every 2 -3 days depending what type of soil you are using there will be little to no drainage. In my soil bed i am using sunshine mix #4 also but i do have drains but since i only watering just enough there is never runoff/drainage.
If you have deficiencies or lockouts or tip burn, giving your plants a cycle of plain water pH adjusted to 6.3 will help. you should be letting the plants dry out between waterings/flushings. Its also good to feed / water /water each week to prevent problems. And keep in mind you are flushing your plants not the soil, same thing goes for feeding.. You dont have to have runoff or drainage to flush your plants. You want to be feeding/watering just enough not waterlogging the soil. I hope this make since.
“And keep in mind you are flushing your plants not the soil”
That isn’t my understanding
Flushing say for nute burn, is to remove say nitrogen from the soil so that the plant cannot take up any more.
I had to flush just last week because of a potassium lock up caused by my manure which has to much Na+ in it. So I wanted to remove the salts from the soil, nothing to do with the plant.
.
On a related but somewhat enigmatic note, and after a lot of browsing before I ask, what does a Line Conditioner Voltage Regulator do? How does it work?
And how well?
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by harris7
Part of flushing is washing the nutes off the roots and removing the nutes from inside the plant with pure water . Giving your plants a cycle of plain water pH adjusted to 6.3 may help with lock out if that is what you are dealing with it's pretty simple.
Adding pH'd water to your medium will bring the medium pH close to that level...the idea behind giving your plants a cycle of plain pH'd water between weekly feedings is to reduce the level of accumulated nutrients that can affect the pH in the medium. Also you should be giving your plants ph'd water once a week to prevent lockout.
I know a fair amount about plant biology and I dont believe that you can remove nutes from inside the plant. The plant has quite a difficult time getting them in, using ion exchange. It is not as simple as changing the concentration on one side of a semipermeable membrane
You are correct. It is cool you have taken the time to get to know the osmotic process, a process which even by our modern science is not fully understood.
The "flushing" process is more concerned with providing the plants with pure water which will allow the plant to continue its processes of using up the nutrients it has already absorbed. The remaining nutrients in the plants at this point will have been assimilated into plant matter which will have one of two classifications: mobile and immobile. Immobile are just that, immobile, and they are more or less unaffected by the flush. Mobile nutrients, most notability nitrogen, will be burned up in the plants and this is the key concept to flushing. Getting the nitrogen out will allow the plant matter to cure much faster providing a more pleasurable smoking experience in the minimal amount of cure time. This can easily be accomplished without drainage, however, drainage would provide a way to more easily assure you can get the remaining nutrients out of the grow medium or soil. I would assume the lack of drainage in tranobles situation is potentially the reason he chooses to flush for 10 days (a little longer than normal). Does that answer your question?
Tranoble – Thanks for the answers on my CO2 questions! Let me list out your questions here..
>I use about two 20lb tanks for 6.5 weeks
DAMN! That is a lot of propane! Oh and I wanted to say that I agree on turning the CO2 off for the last week or two.
>What kind of burner are you using? Does your burner have a glow plug or a pilot light?
I have used both bottle injection and a burner, however neither of which is up and running now due to the bottle being used on a keggerator and the temps are like 87F in the room right now without the burner running at all.. Needless to say I’m hoping for an early winter! When I use the burner I have I just walk in the room and light it (I don’t use a pilot light). Half the time the CO2 is pretty high anyways for some unknown reason and only recently have the levels been under a thousand ppm. I live in a manufacturing town, that’s about the only reason I think the ambient CO2 levels are so high, but hell I’m ok with it! I am thinking about setting my digital controller to 1400ppm and hooking up bottle injection with a full bottle of CO2 and see if the bottle lasts long enough to be practical.
>Do you have a dehumidifer? I try to keep my humidy at about 70-75%
Yep, I have the 40 pint model too, and I have it on a timer to come on during the dark cycle only and it keeps the Relative Humidity at about 45-50%. During the light cycle my rooms humidity is only about 45% without the dehumidifier running, I am surprised at how high you run your humidity. Do you use a sulfur burner?
yes and no, I am not talking about the final flush. i'm talking about an emergency flush when you over nute or something. is not the principle behind this to remove the nutes from the soil so the plants uptake will slow? Then it uses the ones up inside the plant and you start it on nutes again...
I know that a final flush can be done because in that case you are just not providing any nutes so the plant will use all the stored ones up, so that no one is smoking nutes.
This flush thing is getting out of hand. Im gonna answer this one last time and i hope i dont hear about any more lol. I water with PH'd water ever 3rd watering. For the last 10 days i give my plants straight PH'd water and I flush with Flora Kleen. Im getting allmost 3lb per 1000w light. If im doing something wrong please let me know what i can do to correct this. I know my plants might not get the flush the really need sometimes but there is no way I will soak my beds so much that the water runs out the bottem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by harris7
Hi Aaron. I keep my humidity so I high because i find its a find line and I dont want my leaves to dry out. I allways go over kill with everything I do and a 40 pint dehumidifier maybe a little big for the size of my room. I do have a sulfer burner. I used it for powdery mildew. I havent had powdery mildew for a few years so I havent been useing it. I do use it at other places that I have I think that might be because they are at a lower elivation. All in all i dont use it that much. When i do use it i would turn it on for 3hrs when the lights were out.
My Co2 is at 1400PPM at week 4. My Co2 is at 2000PPM right now but tonight i will be turning my Co2 off. I will be giving my plants there last 10 days of water and Flora Kleen(Final Flush).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron385
I read this entire thread and did not see anything as to how you deal with the electricity bill. I understand if you would rather not say but if you thought you mentioned it you didnt just curious.
it has been mentioned multiple times. he uses a pfc, which is sort of an equalizer/current cleaner in a sense. Same thing that new high end computer power suppliers use...cleans up the current and allows for more efficient use of the electricity. Keeps cost down somewhat.Quote:
Originally Posted by LaRRyLuvsPot
aside from that...a $1000 energy bill in the middle of canada is really not that suspicious considering many people use large amounts of electricity for A/C or heating, work, etc. Plus its Canada, who really cares out there?
I have many friends who live in areas where marijuana growing is very prevalent, and they run similar large setups to Tranobles. Pay your bill on time and no energy company is going to say no to all the money you bring in.
Actually not in Canada. We have publicly supplied power so there isnā??t a profit incentive. They actually run a lot of programs to help people lower their power usage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Racerx
Harris I think your wrong. All hydro bills are done by computer. As long as you pay your bill on time no one will ever see your bill. If you are late paying your bill then the bill is flagged and then someone will pull the bill and send you a bill asking you to pay or you will be disconnected. There is no way that people sit and go threw every single hydro bill. I know this cause I have a family member that works at hydro.
I know many of people that have $5000 hydro bills and up and dont have any grow op. There is no way that Hydro can pull your bill just cause its a high bill. That would be like finding a needle in a hay stack. If someone tells the cops that you have a grow op and they pull your hydro bill and its high then your in trouble. This is how people get caught. Not cause you have a high hydro bill. Allso why would hydro want to screw you when you are paying them lots of money?
Quote:
Originally Posted by harris7
Well I’m not. And neither are you. We aren’t talking about the same things.
In the states companies want higher power usage so they can make more profit. They even go further like lowering supply so that demand exceeds it and then jack up the price because of the shortage (enron).
I’m just stating how different our system is. Nothing to do with grows
I dont see anything about you stating how different our systems are. I am posting realating to the post where u stated on Racerx post. Look back a few posts. He said that he knows of alota grows ops and as long as you pay your bill on time you will be fine. You said "Actually not in Canada."Quote:
Originally Posted by harris7
i was only responding to what was in the quotation box. That there system has the profit incentive to keep growers around. BC hydro does not have this incentive. Public corporations are not under mandate to maximize profit unlike privet ones. Public corporations are mandated to provide a service. And that is why they are trying to bring down average consumption. Nothing to do with getting caught
"no energy company is going to say no to all the money you bring in." (i am just speaking to the differences in our systems in regard to this statment)
this is not the reason you dont get caught. it is because it is done by computer and because averages very so much. as you said
Hey Tranoble sorry i missed your thread but i just read about 5 pages of it and it's really interesting. could you take some pics and give me the exact specifications of your veg/cloneing room and the lights you use please that would be great thanks.
Sorry i took my camera snowmobiling and it hasent worked since. I dont have a veg room. I have a cloning rack that i built and use it to clone the clippings i take from the 1 room and then I put the clones in the other room. Saves me having to buy clones for both rooms. I have friends that give me clippings or I buy clones for just the one side.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhino44
Sweet. Your setup is pretty smooth. I'm gonna start cloning this year for my outdoor grow and just thought I'd get your take on it, thanks. I think I will build a rack or buy a t5 fixture.