:thumbsup:;):)
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:thumbsup:;):)
"One of the reasons mirrors are usually not recommended for use as reflectors, is that they reflect concentrated Rays resulting in hot spots."
No, we don't use mirrors because the glass eats usable light. Ive never had a 'hot spot' with a mirror - a flat mirror will NEVER concentrate a beam of light into a hot zone.
Any news about UV-B or far red supplemental lightning? Or Time factor?
Has anyone around here tried out the cmh bulbs? They seem very close to the sun's spectrum, - having both infrared and ultraviolet in addition to all visable as well as photosynthetic usable light. I wonder what the time factor is on that lightning, - does anyone know anything about that?
I have seen no new info....just fighting and arguing ..no red/far red grow log. I stated previously i would do a side by side HPS vs HPS/incan but the room i use now is unsuitable for that. i am 1/3 done building a new room,3 -6' x 3' tables in a 10' x 14' room will provide me with room for these trials but i am in not in the best of health so it's taking kind of long to get there , sorry. as to the CMH bulbs CAN'T get a grip on that time factor stuff but i've herd mostly good things about them[the bulbs]...the price is the big draw back.IMHO you can get the same spectrum with a mix of cheap generic HPS/MH.
Maybe you are right, - although, after what I read, the spectrum of a cmh are more equally emitted over the whole spectrum, and much less light emitted in the wavelengths which the plants don't need. But I am not going to make this a cmh thread, - just curious if anyone knows more about the time factor and how that translates into the spectrum of this lamp - and how to implement it in a pad-pal. Sorry about your health, - best wishes for recovery!
Hopefully this thread will get back to life, - some interesting subjects I think,- even if a lot goes over my poor head... :)
Peace
Not all Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH) bulbs are created equal. Only the Phillips RetroWhite 250 & 400 watt bulbs are worth messing with. They require a 250 or 400 watt HPS magnetic ballast. The smaller CMH bulbs require a pulse start MH ballast and are not worth the trouble...IMO.
If you have a 250 or 400 watt HPS magnetic ballast?...you can rock & roll with them. I veg with them for 30 days; flower for 4 weeks, switch to HPS for 4 weeks...then, switch back to the CMH for the final weeks to harvest. This seems to expand the buds...and are rock hard.
400 watt CMH/HPS/CMH works well for me...:thumbsup:
Hey Dutch,
I think that the CMH bulbs are great, the only limiting factor is 400w is the biggest size available. Hard to cover a 4'x4' tray with one, and two becomes a rectangular foot print, that's just not large enough.
My first "fogfgonugen" setup is using 2- TI Problooms per 4'x4' tray. (2 trays per setup) for a total of 4- Problooms and a total of 1320watts of LED. They are mounted on a light rail, moving just 2' each way and working out very nicely.
For the second fogfognugen setup, I went with 1000w SunPulse MH over each tray; using 3k bulbs for flowering and changing them out for the last two weeks to 10K bulbs. Excellent results, with out resorting to supplemental UVb. Both setups are on shelves, one above the other. Pretty impressive to see 552 "plantlets" of SOG all growing at one time. :thumbsup:
BTW for everyone; while I was gone I oversaw a side by side by side experiment that had UVb from start of veg to flower to finish, Uvb for just flower period and no UVB at all. We used 5 different strains and the results are interesting. I will try to post it all in the comming days.
Welcome back brah.
"BTW for everyone; while I was gone I oversaw a side by side by side experiment that had UVb from start of veg to flower to finish, Uvb for just flower period and no UVB at all. We used 5 different strains and the results are interesting. I will try to post it all in the comming days.
__________________"
Seriously?
Yer killin' me.
Gonna do like my grampa eh?
He'd pocket a pice of a picture puzzle, wait 'til da rest of us slaved over da t'ing.
Den jump in an slap down da last piece!
Funny guy.
OK, all t'ings considered, I'll wait.
'sgood to see ya.
Horse was worried.:D
Be well,
Wee
Hey Weezard,
You know what the ladies say about me......I'm just a big tease. :D
Hey all,
As I mentioned to DutchPimp before, we have a second "fogfognugen" setup now. To rush it into production we went the digi ballast and 1kw HPS route initially.
After two flower runs, when the bulbs needed changing I decided to try the PSMH (pulse start metal halide) from Sun Pulse. Bought 2- 3K bulbs for flowering and 1- 10K bulb to change out for the last week of flower. (the two 4'x4' trays are 4 weeks apart in growth phase on an aprox 8 wk flower).
Results are very impressive. Even tho the initial lumens out is lower then HPS according to a light meter (Sun Pulse does not list that spec btw), the flowering moved along better and the buds seemed to get harder. But the best part was the 10K bulb, it took clear trichomes to cloudy to amber (abt 25%) in that final week. So maybe we really don't need to be humpin' with UVb bulbs after all. :D
Side note: after doing some LED digging, I think the UV diodes in the TI probloom are closer to UVa then UVb. Could safer UVa be another answer to keep some of us away from UVb reptile bulbs?
More than interested on hearing about it, bro :rasta:Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmac
You are right, there is no LED growing lamp using UVB LEDs, which are very expensive (one can cost more than all the rest of the lamp). Those using "UV" LEDs actually are using near UVA, and mostly, violet (no ultraviolet) LED.
UV tecnically starts below 380nm. Although LEDs emitting in 390-410nm, which are the vast majority used on LED growing lamps, are barely visible, they are not UV, and that band effect is accounted on all botany literature as deep blue, not as UV. I do no expect large differences in biological effects than 450nm blue effect for these LEDs.
There is actually avalaible true UVA LEDs (peak emission 360-385nm), but i think little manufacturers (if any) is using them. They are mostly avalaible on low power LEDs. UV LEDs needs especial optics in the encapsulate of the chip because most materials do yellow when exposed to UV. In general UV are much short lived than blue LEDs and output degradation is faster.
Anyway, efficiency compared with royal blue LEDs is greatly reduced.
Bump
Sorry that I've taken so long to post, last few weeks I've had computer issues. While I was recuperating from an operation during the summer, I hooked up with a fellow that grows out mmj plant starts I provide to a nearby town's cancer group. He has a engineering back ground and we have had many talks about light, it's various spectrums and the effect on plants. He offered to do the work for a side by side UVb experiment, if I would guide him with the set up and provide the plant material. I've wanted to do the experiment that Rusty T talked about (see beginning of this thread), basically using UVb thru out vegative growth and then flowering.
The set up:
Built a box from 1/4" plywood, aprox 48"x30", divided into 3 sections of abt 16"x30". Each chamber would accomadate 1 greenhouse tray (abt 15"x24") that are designed to hold 15 pots that are 4 1/2" square and abt 6" high. These pots and trays are used commercially for flower and vegtable "starts" and make life easy by allowing a worker to move 15 plants at a time. BTW the trays are slotted to allow bottom feeding (ie ebb & flow).
All chambers used a 150w HPS that was mounted in a 4" pyrex (boroscilicate) glass tube that were air cooled. (poor man's cool tube using Bake a Round)
Chamber 1; was for the UVb veg & flower, so we used a 'Zilla desert 50 UVb CFL that is 20 watts. This was mounted in a small 6" diameter reflector next to the cool tube. Even tho this is a UVb bulb, it does put out a considerable amount of full spectrum light, and represents abt 15% additional light (by wattage) to the HPS bulb. So I felt I needed to add that additional light to the other chambers.
Chamber 2; was for controll, no UVb at all. So I added a 6500K 23 watt CFL, INSIDE the cool tube with the HPS. I did this to negate anything the CFL might put out to effect results. (boroscilicate glass does not pass UV light)
Chamber 3; was for no UVb during veg/ but UVb during flower. So for the veg time again a 23w CFL was added inside the cool tube, then when it came to flower it was removed and another 'Zilla 50 UVb was mounted outside the tube.
I used 5 differant strains in each chamber, 3 of each. The strains were: White Rhino, Shiva Skunk, Pure Power Plant, Cheese and "Apricot". This last one is a nick name I gave this strain because I recieved it as a cutting from a fellow in the midwest who was big on the use of apricot seeds for cancer treatment. It is a very interesting strain from the stand point of trichome production...it does not make any outside of the buds themselves, but seems to have a great deal of cannabinoids. It will increase appetite, curtail nausea from treatments and eases pain but does not have a real kick-ass high no matter how much you vape or smoke. Plus I have tried almost everything to see if I could get it more frosty but have had no success.
Grow medium was Pro-Mix BX, nutrients where Dutch Masters Gold using growth during veg stage and once into 12/12 used bloom. All chambers had the same tender loving care, and the enviroments where identical. Lights on temps where 78-80F and lights off abt 70-72F. No additional CO2 was used, just ambient levels, aprox 380 ppm. No other additional light sources were used (I usually use a far red source, but not this time).
This is getting long, so....next post will have our observations and findings.
Any questions abt the set up or experiment are welcomed and kibbitzing is encourged. :)
Its an excelent experimental design, difficult to imagine a better one out a lab!
Looking forward for your observations and results. Probably is in this area where there is going to be more subjetivity implied, as its difficult to measure amount of resin alone (except with estandarized extraction) and effect on cannabinoid profile usually only can be infered by effects on each user (again subjetive). But other effects on the grow can be seen very objetively, and for me, subjetive observations of an experienced grower and user are always a great source of reliable info (at the end, all MJ forums are founded on it).
But no doubt that you designed the experiment to be a fair competition of the 3 chambers, while being able to reasonably think that differences on end results are mostly due UVB used.
Superior!:thumbsup:
Perched on the edge, in restless anticipation.
We wait.
Mahalo nui!
Weeze
"You must spread..."
Cyanide as an alternative cancer treatment? :wtf:
I guess if it can kill you, it can kill the cancer cells too. I'm just a little wary of the unsupervised poisoning of my wife, who has been going through bi-weekly chemotherapy for about 8 years now. (t-cell lymphoma)
Apricot seeds and cyanide
Am looking forward to the experiment, and more importantly the results.
I've given the actinic bulbs a test run a few times, but never saw an identifiable result. I believe they were 380-410nm, 32w each. (two bulb fixture - 64w total)
Keep in mind that the UV doesn't reflect very well. Loses strength on the rebound. 50 is pretty strong though...how far are you keeping them from the tops, and how long are they on per day?
And for other's out there...UV light can have adverse effects on your eyes and skin. Use proper care to protect yourself and others.
Also...do the :thumbsup: icons appear in the rep comments, or does it just read as 'thumbsup'? (been wondering for a while now, lol)
the icons show up in the rep Rusty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome
-shake
It showed up.
So did R.T.s
How d'ya do dat?
The rep box won't let me paste anything directly into it.:wtf:
Aloha,
Underprivileged 'zard
okay weeze, what i did was open another tab (i use firefox) and hit reply to a random post. then find the icon you want and hover over it. it will give you the icon name. e.g., the one i sent in the rep is called stoned. when you hover over it it shows up as :"stoned":. so that's exaclty what i wrote in the rep box, minus the quotes. ( i normally would have put the quotes on the outside, but it still showed the smiley, there is no space between the : and the words. :stone*: ) (<---had to put a space here because with a : ) without the space you get a :).) wtf. sorry to get confusing!Quote:
Originally Posted by Weezard
long story short, you just need to know the name, which is probably always enclosed in :: (i guess it's BB code for an icon or whatnot) and type it in!
glad to help.
-shake
Type in the code.Quote:
Originally Posted by Weezard
:thumbsup: is thumbsup with : on both ends. ;)
This thread has been an interesting read. Ok,... gotta go back to lurking my brain hurts! :jointsmile:
yeah, what he ^^^ said! LMAO!Quote:
Originally Posted by canniwhatsis
-shake
okay weeze, what i did was open another tab (i use firefox) and hit reply to a random post. then find the icon you want and hover over it. it will give you the icon name. e.g., the one i sent in the rep is called stoned. when you hover over it it shows up as :"stoned":. so that's exaclty what i wrote in the rep box, minus the quotes. ( i normally would have put the quotes on the outside, but it still showed the smiley, there is no space between the : and the words. :stone*: ) (<---had to put a space here because with a : ) without the space you get a .) wtf. sorry to get confusing!
long story short, you just need to know the name, which is probably always enclosed in :: (i guess it's BB code for an icon or whatnot) and type it in!
Well, I didn't get it at first....but after playing with it I do :"thumbupmybutt": :D
LOL!Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsemanrocks
-shake
:lol5:Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsemanrocks
And, :onethumbupyernose: .
Now S :witch: !
Missed ya brah.
Howzit?
Weeze
And, :onethumbupyernose: .
Now S :witch: [attachment=o258154]
Not so bad....for a poor man.
:"thumbsucker":
oldmac.....I was listening to Willie sing "till I gain control again". Guess who I thought of?
I've read that UVB is only supposed to be used during the last couple weeks of flowering-- you said you were going to use it the whole time?
have you read the entire thread?Quote:
Originally Posted by Permabaked
-shake
Could be worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmac
Could call ya a li'l kitty teaser.:D
Aloha from
Da weezer
when oldmac was younger...rocks were still soft....:rastabanna:....:D
I just realized you had the TN flag. Hope you didn't have my misfortune of living in Memphis for fifteen years!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Pimp
As a side note, good joke! I had a good chuckle from that!
Yes. Did I miss something about that? I read the 'last few weeks' bit on another forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by headshake
quote, well this is an experiment thread, hence the experiments with UVB. plants in nature get UVB more than just the last 2 weeks of flower, correct?Quote:
Originally Posted by Permabaked
-shake
Outdoors, they get it from day uno.Quote:
Originally Posted by headshake
Indoors, depends on the light type. LED, nope, not unless it's been designed that way!
Quote:
Originally Posted by khyberkitsune
yeah i got it khyberkitsune, i was being sarcastic towards Permabaked.
-shake
True but don't people only use MH bulbs for the last couple weeks of flowering because of the additional UVB it provides? Maybe he should add another set of plants to his experiment that only receive UVB at the very end.
people only use MH during the last two weeks of bloom because they get bigger yields with HPS and no other reason. i've read a case study where a grower grew two identical crops, one at 4500' and one at 9000' elevation. the crop at 4500' had about 25% more yield, but less trichs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Permabaked
-shake
Yeah that!Quote:
Originally Posted by headshake
Shake knows!
And, I have seen capitates get decapitated by the UV in sunlight.
They cook down to tiny brown specks and blow away.
You can watch it happen with a 30X loupe.
<Requires a lot of patience>:)
How fast that happens depends on several variables, but the most influential is intensity.
@HS:
Shoulda used the sarcasm font a few posts back, yah?:D
Aloha nui,
Weeze
fa sho! i must have been too :stoned: to find the damn thing! those capitates had me decapitated....or i guess it could have been too much UV to the brain?! :wtf:Quote:
Originally Posted by Weezard
-shake
I was just listening to Bocephus, and "All my rowdy friends" just came on while I got to this thread.....you know who I thought of? They all seem to be on my porch, or at least passed by. Let me just answer a couple of things here:
@knna; This experiment, like my first, is based on observations and tasting is based on subjective experience. Would love to see THC %, but that even done by a lab is subjective and can be manipulated since it is % of the amount of material submitted. Better to just go observational.
@Rusty; I only mentioned the apricot pits to explain the strains nickname. I didn't want someone trying to look up "apricot" and going WTF. I have seen many holistic and alternative medical techniques used for cancer, but that becomes an individuals choice and an area I steer clear of. BTW the UVb was used for the entire photoperiod, 18 hrs during veg and 12 hrs during flowering.
@Permabaked; Let me just cover the experiment quickly, 1 grow chamber is UVb from veg to flower, 2nd is UVb for flower only and 3rd is no UVb at all. I've already done an experiment using UVb for last week or two, and I found it will turn trichomes from cloudy to amber. It's pretty much what I do in my personal grow.
And for everybody else, glad you have enough interest to stop by and see how an old man entertains himself. :D