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Dutch,
I agree with you; it has always been the radicals that get things done. From Ghandi to King to (trying not to choke - jk) Betty Fernand (sp). I think the thing that we need to question is the value of the action. They are demonstrating the olympics for homeless rights. You sound like you approve? What if they did the same thing at the special olympics? Then the question becomes whose values do we use as the judgment for appropriate behavior even by radicals? As 420 fans i would hope it would lay somewhere in the realm of "if it doesn't hurt anyone else".
- Slow -
Wow is all I can say. You certainly can attributed deindustrialization and administrative costs to rising living costs. To say it's solely because of more women entering the workforce is absurd. You can't point out a sole factor because the economy is too complex for such closed-minded analysis. It's just like saying civil rights is the cause for rising living costs. It's amounts to put it bluntly, slander.Quote:
Originally Posted by slowlickitysplit
Please don't presume that Dave is speaking so far above my level of understanding that I didn't grasp all of his big words and simply think he sounds good instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by slowlickitysplit
This is not the chicken and the egg. Because with the chicken and the egg, at least you're pretty safe in assuming that they're related.
Your example didn't really support anything. And I think Dave made a good point which I'll agree with, your understanding of history is backwards.
If you want to be a man about this, you'd just concede that you have nothing to back up your point. I'm more than willing to discuss this if its still considered a valid point.
You seem to be getting worried that your annoying people. Maybe its less what you say, and more how mindlessly you cling to it.
I believe you're mostly annoyed, Slowlickity, because people have used very simple logic—and fine words—to point out unassailable facts. You can call them opinions if you like, but even the most traditional economist or historian will confirm what we're saying about women entering the workforce out of fiscal necessity. The female employment era had an early start during World War II, long before anyone termed the trend feministic, but it was borne out of economic necessity then, too. Those wartime-working ladies returned to home and hearth to begin bearing those of us who're the spawn of the Baby Boom. And they emerged again in the workforce in large numbers in the 1960-to-1974 span when the Vietnam conflict, inflation, and various other economic forces were at work. Sure, plenty of other things factored in. We had reliable birth control after 1960, which allowed women to have fewer children and more freedom. And we increasingly got more education, which had the same effect.
I encourage you to converse with a historian or economist of your choosing at your earliest convenience so you can transfer your misplaced annoyance onto historical reality. You can transfer your annoyance at vocabulary to me because it was I, not my husband Dave, who trotted out the “big words” on you. I think you were mostly annoyed with him because he shot down your women’s employment-heart disease theory at point-blank range.
On a final note, I’m all for women who stay at home and raise their families if they can. I was raised by a stay-at-home mom and an equally involved dad. Probably that’s why I turned out to be so sweet and deferential. As I said earlier, I was able to engineer my life so that I could stay at home with my own child, too. But that was because I had an accommodating, forward-thinking employer who valued families as well as women’s professional contributions and because I had enough education myself—and a husband with the same—that we could swing that financially. I applaud families who make the financial sacrifices to allow one parent to be the primary caregiver, and I know it’s not easy. It’s rearing children and keeping a home that is the hardest job on earth, not being a professional woman. Parenting pays off, though. I can’t think of any contribution I made professionally—or will in the future—that’ll be as important to society as a well-raised child who becomes a happy, positively contributing citizen.
Just name the time, Breuk . . .Quote:
Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat
Oh, Breuk, here you're almost too tiresome to merit a response, but let me simply say that you can lie to yourself and tell others you proudly dismiss any connection to children, but at heart I hope youâ??re not clueless enough to really believe that. I'm certainly not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Breukelen advocaat
Iâ??m well aware of your sentiments about children and people who bear them. I think your disdain is actually a result of your own out-of-balance upbringing, which I know involved abuse and pain and has left you with lingering bitterness. You wonâ??t get any argument from me that youâ??ve likely done a great service to society by not having children of your own. In your heart and mind, however, I hope youâ??re not so myopic or isolationistic that you canâ??t see that other peopleâ??s children are going to touch your life in very direct ways, even if you have no concern for them now. Theyâ??re going to be the ones who assess and collect your taxes. Write the legislation that governs you. Mold the global policy that shapes your world. Theyâ??re going to be the ones find new cures and treatments for cancer, heart disease and even celiac disease. Who will nurture and nurse you, spoon-feed you, help you get up out of your chair, and change your diapers when you require that assistance, see to your funeral arrangements, and probate your will. Theyâ??re already the ones whoâ??re out there defending you from enemies both foreign and domestic.
So I hope youâ??ll re-evaluate your stance as not being connected to the metaphoric village and not having any investment in children, no matter what you think of Senator Clinton. Because you are connected even if youâ??re not yet perceptive enough to comprehend that.
I'm "perceptive enough to comprehend" when I'm getting ripped-off by a person with a constituency of incompetent parents that needs my money to care for and entertain more expensive, obnoxious little reproductions of themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by birdgirl73
P.S. most of the Childfree organizations are run, and frequented by, women. Whether they are "feminists" or not, they are out there - and their number is increasong, along with childfree males, in the world.
Hey come on pussy cat, smile a little bit..huh?Quote:
Originally Posted by dutch.lover
Children grow up to be adults, Breuk. That was my most basic point, and you let it whiz right by you.
I never said it was your family that caused you the abusive pain; you've said that was religiously connected, but that certainly still counts as pain. The out-of-balance was, as you've mentioned several times, in the way you were parented, especially the largely female influence. I'm not saying you've whined about this. You haven't. It's simply information you've volunteered, perhaps more than you realized. (Same reason I added celiac sprue there to the cures that the instant, never-children adults will cure.)
I was more angered than "pained" by religion. I kept a low-profile in the instituions I attended, but saw a lot of less-fortunate kids get abused.Quote:
Originally Posted by birdgirl73
As far as my upbringing, you have either misunderstood me, or have me confused with someone else. I had both parents, but my mother died at age 39, when I was in my early teens. Fortunately, my father was around until I moved out to live on my own.
I am already "cured" of Celiac, an autoimmune disease, because I stopped eating gluten. My recovery was great, and I only talk about it because the vast majority of doctors in the United States are ignorent of it, as many as three million people in the U.S. have this condition - and are being misdiagnosed and/or ignored. There will never be a "cure" for it, really - the best I hope for is a pill that will minimize effects from cross-contamination when eating out. For now, I only eat-out in restaurants that know how to prepare dedicated gluten-free items. It's great to be well - and getting better all the time. I hope that more of the millions of people with it are able to fix themselves, as I did.