9/11 TRUTH

There's also video of the outer walls buckling inward as the support beams give way and the entire structure begins to collapse downward from the middle, beginning the 'pancaking' process.

I would still say that fire brought it down though, by burning away walls and other supporting structures, putting too much pressure on the primary supports. The heat also weakened the supports (heated metal isn't as structurally sound as unheated metal, whether it melts or not). Or to rephrase: without the fire, I don't think the collapse would have occurred.

I don't think that the collapse could have been caused by the fire. That leaves the only other two possibilities being that it collapsed because of a few floors "buckeling down" like bongman said or that it was caused by thermite or some other shit.

I did some research and basically I found out that there's absolutely no way that the center columbs where melted by jet-fuel. Steel melts at 2500 degrees F. The Jet fuel burns at around 425 degrees F and it would have all burned up within a minute or two leaving shit around the office to burn until the buildings actually collapsed. And you have to take into account the fact that these planes couldn't have been fully fueled. And steels critical tempurature is at 1,100 degrees F, where it loses about half of it's stability.

Remember that the North tower had an intense fire in 1975 and suffered no structural damage.

In any case, a fire couldn't possibly have brought down those buildings. It's scientifically impossible. I'm sure there's a logical explanation that the official report fucked up on. -the official report says that they collapsed solely because of a fire-

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LordSmaug

I want someone to tell me exactly how the a hell fire brought down steel reinforced with concrete buildings.

I'm a real skeptic demanding to be convinced and so far the Conspiracy side is winning because no one else is showing me why the conspirators are wrong, they're just repeating that "they're wrong and stupid".
.

---

In addition to the NIST report, you can look up and watch the two very thorough documentaries that were done about a year after 9/11 in which they talk to the architects and engineers who built the towers as well as a wide variety of architects and engineers who did forensic investigations after the collapses. These aired on PBS and still run periodically on Discovery or the History Channel. They're called "Why the Towers Fell" and were done by "Frontline," which features the most well-researched documentary and in-depth news work available on TV today. There were two more excellent documentaries about the structural collapse and the events of that day that air periodically on Discovery and the History Channel. I will try to find their names as well. These documentaries go into impressive, scientifically backed detail about how the intense heat up in the area where the planes hit melted the structural supports in that section, causing them to bulge out and weaken, allowing the process of collapse to begin. I think you'd enjoy watching them, and I suspect documentaries in general and PBS in particular are probably not part of your regular TV repertoire.

They don't have to melt for them to be significantly weakened by heat, and the NIST report showed that the temperature reached more than 1800 degrees in pockets, plenty enough to substantially weaken them. I really think that, without the fire and its effects, the structures would have withstood the actual kinetic energy of the planes themselves, although the WTC buildings were designed to withstand impacts from somewhat smaller jets.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LordSmaug

I don't think that the collapse could have been caused by the fire.

---

Oh, well I guess that settles it.

Quote:

---

I did some research

---

You mean you read a whole bunch of conspiracy theorist websites?

Quote:

---

and basically I found out that there's absolutely no way that the center columbs where melted by jet-fuel.

---

Yup.

Quote:

---

Steel melts at 2500 degrees F. The Jet fuel burns at around 425 degrees F and it would have all burned up within a minute or two leaving shit around the office to burn until the buildings actually collapsed.

---

First of all, jet fuel burns at 800°F to 1500°F, not 425°. And it wasn't the only thing burning...airplane seats, luggage, computers, office desks, and things like that continued to burn too. A lot of it was made out of wood and hydrocarbon-based plastics which can sustain very high temperatures for a long time.

Quote:

---

And you have to take into account the fact that these planes couldn't have been fully fueled.

---

Not fully, but they had taken off from Boston and were headed for the west coast, so they were mostly full.

Quote:

---

And steels critical tempurature is at 1,100 degrees F, where it loses about half of it's stability.

---

Right. The intense heat of the burning jet fuel, airplane parts and office materials was able to get the steel up to about that temperature, and the structure was unable to sustain the loss of stability.

Quote:

---

Remember that the North tower had an intense fire in 1975 and suffered no structural damage.

---

But did it have a giant gaping hole in it caused by an aircraft smashing into the side of the building at full speed? Believe it or not, that kind of thing can cause some structural problems.

Quote:

---

In any case, a fire couldn't possibly have brought down those buildings. It's scientifically impossible.

---

How so? You haven't shown me that it is.

Quote:

---

I'm sure there's a logical explanation that the official report fucked up on. -the official report says that they collapsed solely because of a fire-

---

Well, if it was caused by the building being filled with tons and tons of explosives, that would have been easily detectable by the firemen. Were they all in on the conspiracy too?

OK ok the fire............

what about the structural damage? watch the video again..... how they didnt fall on impact is beyond me.............like BA says it was just a matter of time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LordSmaug

I keep reading peoples comments on here who claim to be engineers. That's all you guys say "uh, yeah, i'm an engineer, and fire definitly took out the towers"

I'm not calling you liars i'm just saying that you're not answering any questions. I want someone to tell me exactly how the a hell fire brought down steel reinforced with concrete buildings.

I'm a real skeptic demanding to be convinced and so far the Conspiracy side is winning because no one else is showing me why the conspirators are wrong, they're just repeating that "they're wrong and stupid".

.."Jet fuel burns at around 425 degrees F"

---

So if Jet fuel burns at 425F how do planes get off the ground? They wouldnâ??t.. but if jet fuel IGNITES at 425F and then proceeds to burn MUCH hotter... then the plane would take off. Look into combustion turbine dynamics since I know you donâ??t believe me because I voted for Bush.

In all fairness.. I will say there are a lot of things in this world I have to take someone elseâ??s word for because I have no idea and not enough desire to find out the truth for myself.. like say Art.. I couldnâ??t tell you if one painting looks better than another.. but if your an Art person and you tell me.. I will take your word for it because its probably true. I donâ??t know the first thing about art appreciation and I donâ??t think I really ever will.

The moral of this story is.. pretty please.. with sugar on top.. if you continue to refuse to develop the background required to accurately interpret the very limited sources of information that somehow find their way to you.. let it go.

Aaron....... they just hate Bush, and America so bad they just twist the truth to fit the hate....

I hate Bush too, and the American government (not America...it's kind of hard to hate 300 million people I don't know, or the expanse of land between Canada and Mexico), but I'm not going to just parrot anything that portrays them in a negative light. I find it better to use logic and evidence to make my points. There are enough real reasons to hate Bush that we don't need to make shit up.

Morons all of you, Nowhere i the 9-11 Documents does it ever say that the Steel Melted! It got so hot that the steel buckled, which started a chain effect, But it did not melt. God you Tin Foil hat guys are gullable...