One Brown Mouse

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Originally Posted by HighPopalorum

Springs,

As a caregiver who is being forced to drop patients, what do you think is a good solution? The state has chosen to draw the line at five patients. Should the limit be raised to ten patients? Should the limit be discarded?

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Missed this...

My solution would be... Ok caregivers you can only grow 36 plants in a residential grow after that you need to look into a commercial building. Why cant caregivers expand their business? Why are we limited to 5 patients? Why are we limited to distrubuting to only those 5 patients when "centers" aren't? I can understand neighbors not wanting to see tons of people going in and out of your house all day thats why I say keep the 36 plant reg for residential. But, again.. Why cant caregivers expand their business?
It's unconstitutional if you ask me.

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Originally Posted by SprngsCaregiver

I actually have no problem regestering, as long as it's confidential, I dont think many caregivers do. It makes it a legitimate business.
Federal law is my worry and the state giving up the info. That's why alot of people refuse to fill out the new dispensary application. You have to release confidentiality. So if the federal stance changes again you will be getting raided by the DEA if you are at 99+ plants.

What I have a problem with is being limited in how much business I can do and who I can do business with. What am I supposed to do with extra meds? If dispensaries can trade between each other why cant caregivers? Or why cant caregivers sell extra meds to dispensaries or other legal patients?
I could understand if they took the stance of...
Look we dont want over X ammount of plants in a residntial grow once you get to that level you need to look into getting a commercial building. That's not how it is though.. You have to be a "center". There is no building your business from the ground up. You either have 50-100k or you don't. Even if I did have it I wouldn't fill out that application until the federal government reschedules the classification of cannibis. Good luck to those who did.

Then I come to one of the places I get to vent my frustrations and see garbage like this.

Maybe you meant to say 'noncompliant growers". But if you are going to call out one of the mods for not proof reading and grammical errors I would assume you're checking yours. So to me it was you trying to mislead people and now trying to spin it.

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I absolutely meant non-compliant growers.

Since you are registered as a caregiver, that's the term I use when referring to legal, registered caregiver grows. However, I think it's an important difference in making grammar errors or using words that are easily interchangable, depending on the audience.

If you'd like me to refer to you as a grower, I'm totally okay with that. However, since your registered with the state as a 'caregiver', I'm more likely to use that when referring to you. I see how you are insulted by that, I'll try to choose my words better.

I guess when I hear 'grower' after 1284, I think of that term as a non registered, non compliant caregiver. The term grower, to me, brings with it the underground, illegal scene. That's just me and my background and life experience. I have never been around a large scale grow, even a compliant before but maybe not compliant now grows. I'm not trying to make anyone mad or piss anyone off. I appreciate posts from people who are also willing to engage in discussions. I'll do my best to refer to you and your friends as growers. I'm simply explaining my position.

I also think it's relevant to point out that I was just playing devil's advocate, so there isn't anything to spin or anything like that. I think.

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Originally Posted by SprngsCaregiver

Missed this...

My solution would be... Ok caregivers you can only grow 36 plants in a residential grow after that you need to look into a commercial building. Why cant caregivers expand their business? Why are we limited to 5 patients? Why are we limited to distrubuting to only those 5 patients when "centers" aren't? I can understand neighbors not wanting to see tons of people going in and out of your house all day thats why I say keep the 36 plant reg for residential. But, again.. Why cant caregivers expand their business?
It's unconstitutional if you ask me.

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I think we should remember that 1284 and 109 are going to raise large amounts of income for the state. Limiting private growers (since they don't want to pay taxes on that income and stay under the radar) and not limiting MMC's (since they have the ability to pay-to-play) probably maximizes the potential income for the state, since large scale home grows that are non-compliant have a lot more to lose.

It's certainly going to be interesting moving forward.

Hopefully, caregivers can come together and try to find middle ground, some form of regulation.

Do large scale caregivers even pay taxes on the money they make from selling to patients before 1284?

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Originally Posted by HighPopalorum

There's an interesting dynamic playing out. Commercial growers (or retailers, or MMCs or whatever word you choose) like Kathleen want the freedom to operate without state regulation, as caregivers do. Meanwhile, you and other caregivers want patient and plant counts removed so they can serve an unlimited number of patients, as MMCs do. Each group wants to enjoy the benefits of the other, but is not willing to accept the limitations. Irony.

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From what I understand Kathleen was a caregiver that expanded into a commercial building because of the popularity of her goods. I dont know her I'm just going off what I've heard from others. If this is true though I wouldn't classify her as a MMC. I would still classify her as a caregiver. She never filled out the MMC application. She said so in this thread. I dont blame her either.. IMO you're crazy if you fill out that application before the feds change thier stance on marijuana.

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Originally Posted by SprngsCaregiver

From what I understand Kathleen was a caregiver that expanded into a commercial building because of the popularity of her goods. I dont know her I'm just going off what I've heard from others. If this is true though I wouldn't classify her as a MMC. I would still classify her as a caregiver. She never filled out the MMC application. She said so in this thread. I dont blame her either.. IMO you're crazy if you fill out that application before the feds change thier stance on marijuana.

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I agree. Hopefully places that are genuinely doing good things, like releaf, wellspring, pure, etc won't be harrassed too much. Hopefully they remain transparent and compliant, that's all they can do. I respect them for it, and I will absolutely give them my business in the future.

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Originally Posted by HighPopalorum

There's an interesting dynamic playing out. Commercial growers (or retailers, or MMCs or whatever word you choose) like Kathleen want the freedom to operate without state regulation, as caregivers do. Meanwhile, you and other caregivers want patient and plant counts removed so they can serve an unlimited number of patients, as MMCs do. Each group wants to enjoy the benefits of the other, but is not willing to accept the limitations. Irony.

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I also think you are mistaken. I dont believe Kathleen had a problem being registered with the state, wanted to work "without state regulation" or wanted to dodge taxes. It was the whole waiving of confidentiality that she and others are having a problem with.
What this means is if the feds change their stance that the state can legally give them all your information.
Alot of people seem to be forgetting that marijuana is still a class 1 drug according to the DEA.

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Originally Posted by SprngsCaregiver

Missed this...

My solution would be... Ok caregivers you can only grow 36 plants in a residential grow after that you need to look into a commercial building. Why cant caregivers expand their business? Why are we limited to 5 patients? Why are we limited to distrubuting to only those 5 patients when "centers" aren't? I can understand neighbors not wanting to see tons of people going in and out of your house all day thats why I say keep the 36 plant reg for residential. But, again.. Why cant caregivers expand their business?
It's unconstitutional if you ask me.

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We're cross posting at each other, lol. The thread is so off topic, but we should continue this.

Would you be willing to accept increased regulation as the size of your business increased? Zoning is only part of the pie: health and safety inspection, occupational licensure, taxation, building code compliance would all have to apply. Of course, you realize also that at some point, as your business grows, we have to pull the trigger on local government regulation and oversight as well. Currently you don't need the town or county's permission to be a caregiver. I'm sympathetic to the argument that the business cannot be grown organically. There seems to be quite a disconnect between a caregiver operating at maximum capacity and a center. That sucks. Maybe you're right and we need some kind of ladder for your business to climb.

However, here's another perspective I use most of the time: The point of the law, all our medical marijuana laws, is to protect the integrity of the patient: to allow her to access medicine free of legal consequence, to maintain her confidentiality, to ensure her safety. That's why centers face regulation: to make sure they aren't scumbags rigging the scales, misusing her personal information, or selling her moldy medicine. She could also grow for herself, or find a trusted person (you) to grow for her. If you want to operate not merely as that trusted associate, but as a business, then you should accept the same regulations centers do and offer the same guarantees.

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Originally Posted by HighPopalorum

We're cross posting at each other, lol. The thread is so off topic, but we should continue this.

Would you be willing to accept increased regulation as the size of your business increased? Zoning is only part of the pie: health and safety inspection, occupational licensure, taxation, building code compliance would all have to apply.

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Of course, and I can guarantee most would as long as we're not waiving our right to confidentiality. I don't think that most caregivers want to fly under the radar of the state and local law inforcment. It's that most are afraid of the DEA.

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Originally Posted by HighPopalorum

Of course, you realize also that at some point, as your business grows, we have to pull the trigger on local government regulation and oversight as well. Currently you don't need the town or county's permission to be a caregiver.

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What do you mean?

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Originally Posted by HighPopalorum

I'm sympathetic to the argument that the business cannot be grown organically. There seems to be quite a disconnect between a caregiver operating at maximum capacity and a center. That sucks. Maybe you're right and we need some kind of ladder for your business to climb.

However, here's another perspective I use most of the time: The point of the law, all our medical marijuana laws, is to protect the integrity of the patient: to allow her to access medicine free of legal consequence, to maintain her confidentiality, to insure her safety. That's why centers face regulation: to make sure they aren't scumbags rigging the scales, misusing her personal information, or selling her moldy medicine. She could also grow for herself, or find a trusted person (you) to grow for her. If you want to operate not merely as that trusted associate, but as a business, then you should accept the same regulations centers do and offer the same guarantees.

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Who in the state is qualified enough to know if a dispensary is selling moldy, bug infested goods? Or how about those dispensaries that get these things and use harsh chemicals to get rid of them. How would your average inspector know what to look for?
I've worked in construction for 20 years and believe me some of the state/city inspectors dont give a crap. So the whole bad medicine thing works both ways.

What happened to One Brown Mouse closing ?????

Kathleen good KARMA to you.:thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by SprngsCaregiver

What do you mean?

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re: local government
Well, for example, in my city, center operators must pay a $500 occupational license fee, as well as a one-time $875 application fee and some other minor fees to cover the cost of background checks and business permits. As a caregiver, you don't have to pay any of that stuff or operate under the oversight of town inspectors.

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Who in the state is qualified enough to know if a dispensary is selling moldy, bug infested goods? Or how about those dispensaries that get these things and use harsh chemicals to get rid of them. How would your average inspector know what to look for? I've worked in construction for 20 years and believe me some of the state/city inspectors dont give a crap. So the whole bad medicine thing works both ways.

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It does work both ways, but at least centers and their grow sites will be inspected by several different state and local agencies. Inspectors are spotty at best, but that is not an argument against inspections. As a patient, I find safety inspections, background checks, felony prohibitions and health code compliance compelling reasons to shop at a dispensary. I like that they will be required to list inorganic ingredients. You could certainly provide those assurances to your customers, by allowing them to inspect your grow and your personal background, but you are not obligated to do so as centers will be.