Calling out to Weezard for LED advice

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Originally Posted by DreadedHermie

Been followin' the pics. Tell me, does it make any sense to overdrive regular T8 shoplights?

Hermie

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Hey Hermie,

Probably not. The cheapest way would be to double the T8s, unless you have a T8 fixture that fits your space perfectly and want more umph. (to use the techmnical term). It's the same with T5s, you can get the same output from a 8-light HO as a 4-light VHO. The cost of the IceCap ballast is about $160 for the big one model 660, a slightly smaller one model 430 is abt $140.
What they will handle is base on max lamp lenght and number of lamps.

The 660 does:
2 lamps 16'max or 2x8',6',5',3' or 2'
3 lamps 15'max or 3x5',4' or 3'
4 lamps 16'max or 4x4',3' or 2'

The advantage is seen best with the aquarium guys, hood is say 4' long but depth is problem. You can get the lumens of a 8 bulb into 4, plus save a little wattage, but lose a little bulb life.

I chose to use them in a hybred light 'cause there was not enough room to have more then 4 bulbs plus the LEDs in the middle.

Man, Icecap makes some other cool stuff, I see. T5 reflectors, variable speed fans, etc. NOT CHEEP. Looks top notch, though.

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unless you have a T8 fixture that fits your space perfectly and want more umph.

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Hilarious. I used that same technical term earlier myself. Talkin' 'bout lights, too (what else? ;)) And, actually, I do know a place where a couple T8 shoplights fit quite nicely ;). And punching through a canopy seems similar to pushing through some aquarium water, umph-wise.

Seems like if you cranked up a T8 it'd get more like a T5HO in terms of "bite." I don't get how these ballasts work, though. Says they'll drive combinations of different bulbs. How does each bulb know when to say "when" when guzzling down electricity? How many watts will a IC660 drive a 32W 4' NO T8 at? (Well, 4 of 'em, is the real question...) I'd think if I could get 4 regular old shoplights to burn 55W each, I'd be all over this. (Unless the heat is oppressive.)

Thanks! :stoned:

Yup, IceCap makes some nice stuff. I have the T5 reflectors, very effective, but used them on my cloner lights. I need to get another set of 4 for the hybred setup, using cheap ones on that for the time being and they suck. (another tech term)

Yesterday I worked on the hybred frame, to move the inner bulbs outward. I broke one of the 2700K bulbs, found out they are currently "irreplaceable" for the time being.(only one source; out of stock) Have a spare 6500K, but could not find it. Had to go to HomeDump to get one, the only 4' T5 bulb they had was an Normal Output (28w) Alto (3500K) got two. Now I know the IceCap ballast will drive these to 85watts, but was worried that if I used 2-NOs and 2-HOs, would they play well together. No problem, the ballast just drives them all to the max.

On T8s, you may be able to use the smaller 430 model to do 4 lamps. Somewhere I have the total wattage each model can handle, I'll look thru some of my papers and notes. I think I also have the watt levels you can get from T8 and T12s somewhere.

Calling out to Weezard.....

If you have a chance, stop by a thread by Horsemanrocks "HID & LED" in the indoor growig section. Maybe you can offer an idea or two.

Weezard,

I have been following your posts for quite sometime now. I am simply fascinated by LED grow light technology. You've had some time to play, and I have a manufacturer who will let me truly play with the array and let me put in whatever LED's I wish. I am however limited to the 1W LED's.

I'm sure you've seen all of the chinese manufactured lights. I've seen the lights from this manufacturer tested and these LED's DO put out at the advertised wavelengths. :thumbsup:

The market is currently flooded with "Tri-Band" lights of course meaning they are putting in orange with the red and blue. Is the orange worth it?:wtf:

This manufacturer has the capability to put 735nm LED's into the array for me.

What I don't know is how many of each type of LED to put in the array. I'm tinkering with their 119 LED array. I figured you would know what the optimal wavelengths were as DH's light is hauling ass with his grow from the pictures I saw in another thread. :rastabanna:

How would you suggest I break up that 119 light option? Majority 660nm, a little 640nm? Some 462nm? and then some 735nm? Again the question is in what ratio?

I'm also getting an all blue UFO for veg. What nm LED should I use for that?

The pricing is unbeatable for my test models. I can even get him to make me just and all 735nm light bulb in place of the party light. But again, I'm not sure how many LED's would be needed to match the output of the party bulb.

Any light you can shine on this would be greatly appreciated. I truly respect the fact that you build all of your stuff on a budget and it blows away lights that people spend thousands of dollars on. And you sense of humor is great....I've had many laughs from your posts!:D

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Originally Posted by ledtime

Weezard,

I have been following your posts for quite sometime now. I am simply fascinated by LED grow light technology. You've had some time to play, and I have a manufacturer who will let me truly play with the array and let me put in whatever LED's I wish. I am however limited to the 1W LED's.

I'm sure you've seen all of the chinese manufactured lights. I've seen the lights from this manufacturer tested and these LED's DO put out at the advertised wavelengths. :thumbsup:

The market is currently flooded with "Tri-Band" lights of course meaning they are putting in orange with the red and blue. Is the orange worth it?:wtf:

In my humble opinion, no.
Should do as well or mo' betta adding the same number of 660nm. leds.
I think the tri-band lights are based on a false assumption.
Somebody looked at relative bud quality 'tween HPS and low-power led grow.
They thought, as I did, what does the HPS have that the leds do not have?
Most obvious is that large spike of yellow/amber energy.
I did a side by side test. 625nm. vs. 660 nm.
Then I did a blended light test with both wavelengths.
All 660 outshines the blend.:)

So, back to thinking mode.
HPS comes up slow and fades out slow. So there is a spectral shift towards IR as it cools off.

Hmmm.
In the wild, we have a shift to red as the blue light scatters in the evening. After sundown we still have incoming energy in far red and infra red.
That's why I'm playing with the 730nm. at lights out.
I've read all about the phytochrome conversion and 730:660 role in it's conversion.
Phytochrome is clearly not the whole story here, just another clue.
But, I think the application of 730 nm. is key.

(We also get some 730 nm. in the morning pre-sunrise. Yet another avenue of interest)

This manufacturer has the capability to put 735nm LED's into the array for me.

I doubt that adding some 730nm, leds to the mix and turning them on and off with the same timer as the rest will be very useful.
But, kicking them in 10 minutes before lights-out and running them for 20 minutes after, just might be, I intend to find out.
If not? we all learned something.:cool:


What I don't know is how many of each type of LED to put in the array. I'm tinkering with their 119 LED array. I figured you would know what the optimal wavelengths were as DH's light is hauling ass with his grow from the pictures I saw in another thread. :rastabanna:

That's not all about the light, yah?
Hermie's got a :greenthumb:.

How would you suggest I break up that 119 light option? Majority 660nm,

Yes

a little 640nm?

Not so much.

Some 462nm?

Wouldn't hurt.:D

and then some 735nm?

See above.

Again the question is in what ratio?

If you are stuck with a fixed ratio array there will be compromises.
The R:B ratio will depend on your goals.
Got limited headroom? More blue.
Last few weeks of budding? More red.
4:1 seems to be a good "in-between" ratio.
My large array runs all-ahead-full at 5:1.
I can adjust the red downwards to play with the ratio.
Still fiddling with that.
Got more hints than conclusions.

The next exploration will be a variable ratio vs. time.
5:1 in the morning and evening with a slow ramp to bring the blue up for a 3.5:1 at noon then have it fade back to 5:1 in the evening. A little burst of 730 nm. at the "off n onnie" transitions and I'm hoping we can outdo HPS for half the cost in power,

I'm also getting an all blue UFO for veg. What nm LED should I use for that?

Not sure that monochrome a good idea.
Plants can and do convert wavelengths to something that chlorophyl can use.
But, TANSTAAFL.
I have never tried growing with a single color, so I won't say it can't be done well.
It just does not seem right to me, so I'll let other folks experiment with that.
That said, I'd shoot for a mix of the 2 blue peaks in the absorbtion curve.

The pricing is unbeatable for my test models.

Hmm, 'bout $135 ?

I can even get him to make me just and all 735nm light bulb in place of the party light. But again, I'm not sure how many LED's would be needed to match the output of the party bulb.

Nor am I. Seems to be a toggle with a "tipping point"
Still :weedpoke:.

Any light you can shine on this
A man after my own heart.:D
would be greatly appreciated. I truly respect the fact that you build all of your stuff on a budget and it blows away lights that people spend thousands of dollars on. And you sense of humor is great....I've had many laughs from your posts!:D

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Just had a good chuckle from yours, thanks.

More important you nudged the on switch to me "thinker".
(Just toss me a concept and I'll amuse myself for months.)

I expect we'll be learning choke from your efforts.
Welcome aboard m8!

Regards,
Weezard

Thank you so much for your input. This stuff has really been making my brain work overtime!

I will have a fixed ratio array, but at the same time I will have two led lights.

The only reason I was going to tinker with the all blue veg light is because others who have say that it takes away a lot of the stretch, and the plants still veg just fine. (So they say...I haven't personally tested this)

Trying to find the missing link here is fun. Assuming that the light is the only variable in the equation, what is it that HPS provides that LED is missing? We know from studies which wavelengths are the most beneficial. I bet the far-red is the key. Only time will tell.

So you think 5:1 is the optimal ratio?

Should I split up the blues in the "red" panel using two wavelengths? If so which nm blues should I use?

I like testing the unknown. Collectively, with many people here the most efficient and productive way within our current limits can be found.:thumbsup:

"So you think 5:1 is the optimal ratio?

Don't know about optimal, but I think 5:1 is a little red heavy for veg.
I'm running at 4:1 in the bloomery trying to limit stretch.

Should I split up the blues in the "red" panel using two wavelengths? If so which nm blues should I use? "

These should help you decide.

[attachment=o218348]

[attachment=o218349]

[attachment=o218350]

[attachment=o218351]

So, whuddaya think?

Aloha,
Weezard

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Originally Posted by Weezard

"So you think 5:1 is the optimal ratio?

Don't know about optimal, but I think 5:1 is a little red heavy for veg.

I was referring to the flowering light. I should have been more specific. I want to have a seperate light for veg. But should I still put in some 430nm blues along with the 452nm blues in the flowering light?
I'm running at 4:1 in the bloomery trying to limit stretch.



Should I split up the blues in the "red" panel using two wavelengths? If so which nm blues should I use? "

So, whuddaya think?

I'm thinkin I need to peg the 430 and 452 in the blue light. But more 452 than 430. :) But does the plant use any red light at all for the veg stage? From the research I've done it's mostly the blues that contribute to the growth in that period.

Aloha,
Weezard

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It's nice to discuss this with someone....so far it's been all solo for me. I completely followed your thread with the build of the light, but when looking at the cost to do it that way with the 15W'ers, it was more cost effective my way. Though I won't get the flexibility that you have. Give and take right?

On the funnier side of things...just read this. It might be old but a new one to me:

There once was a bud named B.C.
He grew on a 7 foot tree
Till one day I plucked him
Rolled him & smoked him
And now I can barely see! :jointsmile:

is something at which you can't sneeze.
He gets toked-up most nights.
Den he reads, an he writes.
While his babies grow bigger dan trees.

Well, a 'zard can dream, yah?:D

A grew once, some dank in Hawaii
with about 20 percent THC.
I grew dem in beds
an' I lit dem wit' leds.
Din't need no G.D. UVb!

Sometime it jus' jumps out my fingertip, sorry.:o

Wee Zard

It's been a lonnnnnng day and that was just what I needed! :S2:

I'm sitting here looking at charts and jotting down wavelengths. I have to let the manufacturer know tomorrow how I'd like him to make the two lights for me.

I'll try getting the 90W UFO light with the mixture of the blues using the absorbtion peaks you've shown me in those charts. Let's see how the plants like it with just blues for veg.

For the flowering light I'm going to load up on the 660's per your advice. Though, with me using the 1W LED's as opposed to the 15W ones that you use is that ratio still alright? Or, should I use more red and less blue since they are weaker lights? More like an 8:1 ratio because of their weakness? (they bow down and cry in the presence of your lights!) :D

Your thoughts?

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Originally Posted by ledtime

It's been a lonnnnnng day and that was just what I needed! :S2:

I'm sitting here looking at charts and jotting down wavelengths. I have to let the manufacturer know tomorrow how I'd like him to make the two lights for me.

I'll try getting the 90W UFO light with the mixture of the blues using the absorbtion peaks you've shown me in those charts. Let's see how the plants like it with just blues for veg.

Excellent! I'm curious about the blue peaks but 430 nm. leds appear to be a rare beast. At least they were last year.:)
And I love a well thought out experiment.

For the flowering light I'm going to load up on the 660's per your advice. Though, with me using the 1W LED's as opposed to the 15W ones that you use is that ratio still alright?

Wish I knew that as a certainty.
Since the 15W emitters are actually 4. 5 Watt dies on a single substrate, it would seem that the ratio holds.

Or, should I use more red and less blue since they are weaker lights? More like an 8:1 ratio because of their weakness? (they bow down and cry in the presence of your lights!) :D

Pshaw! "Many hands make light work".
Just keep yours closer to the canopy.
And if you cut it to 8:1 you may have more stretch than you want.

Your thoughts?

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Oh, no, brah!
You nevah wanna say dat to an ADD.:tin foil hat:
("They echo and they swell, down from Berkely to Carmel")
Betta you re-phrase dat or we be here all night.;)

I only half kiddin' 'bout dat.
My brain is "on the loose wig alla time".:jointsmile:

But, thanks for asking.:D

Aloha,
Weeze

Hi, I've been following this thread for a bit and happened upon this:

LEDs used to produced plant antioxidants - UPI.com

Hope this isn't too off topic - I wasn't sure where to post. In any case, you can just check google news for "UVB led lettuce" and you'll see there are a few different news outlets showing interest.

I asked for a quote on Seoul's Optodevice 280nm LEDs a while back and all I can remember of the experience now is the sound of my jaw hitting the floor. I think that reptile lights offer a more affordable alternative - that is, if they work as well as the aforementioned LEDs. I'm not aware of any other UVB sources. Even incandescent bulbs appear to produce minimal UVB according to these sources:

No UVB from tungsten filament incandescent lamps

http://www.flukerfarms.com/PDFs/Lightbulb-FAQs.pdf

I recognize that we're not trying to grow lettuce here (it's tomatoes, right?). Regardless, the theory that resin is, in part, a defense against solar UVB radiation lends plausibility to the supposed benefits of UVB.

Thanks to everybody who has been posting. I'll be sure to contribute more once I've started work on my own LED arrays.

W,

I was expecting a nice check to come in the mail yesterday but it probably won't come until Monday....SOOOOO, that leaves me with this weekend to make my final decision on how I'd like to setup these lights.

You use lenses to concentrate your lights for better penetration do you not? That's probably why you get such great results. I'm trying to figure out how much power I really need.

If using a DR100 40"x40"x72" to grow in and a DWC setup. What do you think of three five gallon buckets, one plant per bucket in that size space?

The main light for veg would be the 90W UFO type, and the main light for flowering would be a 120W model.

I'm going to try the 90W version with just the blue like I mentioned before as it seems to be working for others. If it doesn't work I'll have the 120W light I could use.

I just hope the 120W with the party bulbs for the far red will be enough for that size area.

Your opinion?

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Originally Posted by ledtime

W,

...
You use lenses to concentrate your lights for better penetration do you not?

Yes, on the 5W emitters. No on the 15W., so far.
I am playin' with some lenses but they contain too much heat for the big guys. Looking for some tiny parabolic reflectors to use instead of lenses for the next flowering.
Might end up making my own out of 4mil Mylar cones.

That's probably why you get such great results. I'm trying to figure out how much power I really need.

Aren't we all?:)

If using a DR100 40"x40"x72" to grow in and a DWC setup. What do you think of three five gallon buckets, one plant per bucket in that size space?

IMO ya can't beat 5g. DWC one plant per bucket. (You've been reading:thumbsup:)

The main light for veg would be the 90W UFO type, and the main light for flowering would be a 120W model.

I'm going to try the 90W version with just the blue like I mentioned before as it seems to be working for others. If it doesn't work I'll have the 120W light I could use.

I just hope the 120W with the party bulbs for the far red will be enough for that size area.

Your opinion?

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'bout perfect for the space if ya wan't big plants.
Though you might as well chop the bottom branches off.

Even with lensing they won't yield much.

Old Mac pointed out the advantage of "lollipopping" multiple clones over harvesting top buds from trees. So, this next run will be a clone SOG.
Did a scrog on da last one. Too much work.
If 8 to 10 short girls outproduce 3 tall ones, I'm thinking about layering my tiny 8' high room into 2. 4' high rooms and going all coco. But, that's just da lazy in me. I don't really need MORE meds. But I can't stop,:weedpoke:. It is my nature.

I'm stoked about your 90W. "dual blue" vegger!
It looks promising.:cool:

Unka Sam "stimulated" me with $250, den told me I had ta spend it right away or pay taxes on it.:wtf::D
Imagine dat.
Da feds supporting medical-MJ. with my share of the National debt?:jointsmile:
How berry round and :cool: is dat?
Will wonders never cease?:upsidedow

Aloha,
Weezard

Well.......not exactly "lollipoppin", I try to do it without the stick part.

Here's a 10" example, when finished slightly taller and much fatter.:thumbsup:

WOOF!
Kudos, Brah.
Dat be ONO!

(so good it broke da mout')

Weeze:jointsmile:

mac, are you just letting them get roots and then flowering?


-shake

All meat and no potatoes! :D

Wow Old Mac...that is one stout lady you have there! :thumbsup:

The dual blue light should be interesting. I'm just concerned with the output of the flowering light. I would be MUCH more comfortable with a true high powered LED light, but I don't have the tools to really do it right. I would make DH feel good with how many LEDs I could burn up...and there aren't that many to go around!

So weez, you think three is a good limit for buckets in that size space? I was thinking four would be a bit much if they get bushy....

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Originally Posted by headshake

mac, are you just letting them get roots and then flowering?


-shake

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Roots??? darn I knew I forgot something. Yup Shake that's one that as soon as it showed roots (1/2"?) it was poted and placed in the bloom room @ 12/12. You know that growth spurt (2-3times original size) that happens when they go to flower, it happens below ground also. This was a cutting from a plant 3 weeks into flower, that was grown from fem seeds (NLXjackherer and NLxhawian) normally used outdoors that grows 7-9 ft tall. Indoors I grew it 3' in a 4" square pot (just to prove it would grow even if rootbound).

That plant actually shoud be in a 4"square pot, with 9pots/sqft and 144 per 4'x4' area. The pictured plant finished at 4.5grams dried and manicured. With a little fine tuning it could go 7-8 grams. I know it don't sound like much per plant...but do the math. It's all a numbers game.

Hello ledtime,

In this dirt grow I'm envolved in, I use blue light over my cloner and seedlings. I get it by using a super actinic white T5 HO, first few days that bulb only then 6500K T5s are added. Found it cheaper and easier then LEDs in this case, but i'm loking forward to seeing what you get with an all blue LED setup.

that makes perfect sense to me oldmac! i mean don't get me wrong, it would be nice to grow a monster bush, but it just doesn't make a bunch of sense. unless outdoors of course.

it's kinda like growing an AF strain minus the ruderail genetics (which is obviously good!). i think next grow round i'll put them into flower when they are wee lasses and see what happens.

they don't give you any problems in those 4" pots?


-shake

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Originally Posted by LushBuddy

Hi, I've been following this thread for a bit and happened upon this:

LEDs used to produced plant antioxidants - UPI.com

Hope this isn't too off topic - I wasn't sure where to post. In any case, you can just check google news for "UVB led lettuce" and you'll see there are a few different news outlets showing interest.

I recognize that we're not trying to grow lettuce here (it's tomatoes, right?). Regardless, the theory that resin is, in part, a defense against solar UVB radiation lends plausibility to the supposed benefits of UVB.

Thanks to everybody who has been posting. I'll be sure to contribute more once I've started work on my own LED arrays.

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Hello LushBuddy, and welcome to the Cdot boards.

Your first post is a winner, at least with me. Thanks for the link to the news story "UVB LED lettuce", seems to indicate a positive result of some added UVB. Who'da thunk!

HEY WEEZE, I hope you read this....to your plants so they know what theys suppose to do when they see uvb. lol
(Hey it's the main stream media, I don't trust them anyhow)

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Hello LushBuddy, and welcome to the Cdot boards.

Your first post is a winner, at least with me.

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I gotta agree. The author of the paper has some other credible looking research out. I want to check some of that, and, of course, all these results are specie / strain specific. But at least he mentioned a quantified flux density at the plant surface. Like 10 micro-quadroons per square hyper-freckle or suppin'. :i feel stupid: At least it suggests a starting value for similar experiments with other plants. :weedpoke: Of course, he may be secretly on the take from the Albacore lobby. They are everywhere. :tin foil hat:

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I get it by using a super actinic white T5 HO

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Mac, some of those actinic tubes look like they're covering royal blue wavelengths. You thought of this already, yes?

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Originally Posted by headshake

they don't give you any problems in those 4" pots?
-shake

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A 4" pot is plenty for SOG with a less then 18" plant, it's about maxium density you can get.
The original plants grown from seed in the 4" pots where origninally going to be transpland to 6" rds, but my partner got all kinds of bent out of shape when we didn't transplant on time. So just to prove a point, I left them in the 4"pots and I showed him what would happen when it got rootbound
.....nothing, it just kept growing and budding.
We are feeding chemical nutrients, the plant really doesn't need lots of roots as long as the ones it has gets good nutrition and PH. I probably gave up some wgt per plant with that stunt, but now he knows better. (Main pain in the ass with that size pot, plant needs feeding everyday, pots dry out too fast. Also when they are dry and light, the plants like to fall over, I don't reccomend growing that large in that small a pot, but it can be done.
I also took those same 3' plants and harvested the top 1' and left the bottoms to fatten up another 10 days. (Partner thought you can't top that much, without the rest of the plant just going into shock and shutting down). Plants instead concentrated on fattening up it's lower buds. He has come around to my way of thinking.

I love the line "let's replicate nature" indoors. Thanks anyway, I like to think I can get the plants to do things they would never do in nature, for my advantage.

Hi Hermie,

I went the actinic white route years ago after taking my first horticuture course in college. (oldest in my class) We studied the need for certian wavelenths of light, at various times of growth. Besides the need for blue light to stimulate hormones related to the roots it was my first introduction to the need of abt 660nm for photosyntheis but also the need of 730nm far red. Learned a bunch of other usefull stuff, like willow water for clonning.

Kinda led me down the slippery slope of LEDs.
The idea to use a actinic florescent bulb came from a glasshouse operator in my area, that I spoke to about his asexual propagation via cuttings (see what they learned me). It's what he was using and I adopted.

SIDE NOTE: I recently found out you can't mix T5 HO bulbs with NO bulbs in an ice cap ballast set up. You can run all NO or all HO but not a mix of both, if you expect the NOs to last more then 12hours. lol Live/learn.

pis of actinic in action. Royal blue is a good thing, I hope.

right oldmac! isn't that the whole point of this? to make the baddest ladies on the planet. it's no different than cross-breeding for hybrid vigor or mulitple desireable traits.

we are trying to push the envelope. to take cannabis to where it's neve gone before......outerspace! j/k about the last part!

thanks for all of the wonderful info!



-shake

Weez,

I have been looking for ten minutes and can't find your results of when you dismantled the UFO.

I've got this manufacturer in China (one of a thousand I'm sure) that is making these things. They can make their own LED's to exact specs. Which is how I'm able to get my dual blue UFO made.

I asked what the current draw was and he said:

When the voltage is AC120V, the current is :
90w/120V=0.75A (90W UFO) 120w/120V=1A (120W Rectangle)
When the voltage is AC220V, the current is : 90w/220V=0.41A (90W UFO) 120w/220V=0.55A (120W Rectangle)

The lamp current will be in different voltage stye(120V/220V), and the lamp actual current will be a little fluctuated from figures above.

What other information should I get from this manufacturer to be sure I'm getting a quality product? If you can shoot me an email at [email protected] I'll forward you the coorespondence that I've had with them. Maybe with a little of your guidance we can get them to produce a pretty decent light for a lower cost.

Should I be concerned that they make their own LED's?

ttys,
L

There were no photos to find.
I just opened the pup and described the innards to Hermie.
Did not bother to take and post photos because there is just not that much to see.

3 small black boxes. 3 small fans
The box that powers the fans, is prolly an unregulated 12Vdc supply.
The other two drive the red and blue series strings of leds.
They are true black boxes, no markings, so I hope they are constant current supplies.
(could be just a bridge rectifier and a dropping resistor.):mad:
Anybody know a friendly dentist who will do a "bitewing X-ray" of the BBs?

The answer you got on the current draw was boilerplate, but, of course, accurate.
Mine actually draws 650 ma. at 120v. and that includes the 3 fans.

In spite of that, it does veg. very well. :thumbsup:
Almost too well.
DWC'd momma got too big for da room,
hadda put her in bloom.


I'd say, order the dual blue and buy one of those cheap KWH meters.
For ~$20. They will tell you the actual current draw, power factor, KWH, real-time voltage, etc.

Then you can test all your appliances to see which one have their hand in your pocket.:cool:

"Should I be concerned that they make their own LED's?"

Not if they make good leds.:D

If you have a decent lux meter, we'll compare notes and measurements
If you don't have a light meter, a calibrated eyeball will tell you if they are crappy.
The relative "brightness' should be the same for all leds of the same wavelength.
And they should be way too bright to look directly at.

So, get a money-back guarantee and place your order.
That's why we buy "samples", yah?


How 'bout, title your veg. log.

Two blue?! Who knew!?;)


Aloha,
Wee Zard

Hey Weez,

Are you experimenting with pulsing the lights at all?

Are you going to add any UV LEDs?

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Originally Posted by RackitMan

Hey Weez,

Are you experimenting with pulsing the lights at all?

At all?
Sure.
Just one pulse, but it lasts 18 hours.:D

I have several experiments going at the moment.
My :weedpoke: plate is full.
Hoping someone else will step up and do the pulsed light experiment.
How 'bout you, ya busy?:)

Are you going to add any UV LEDs?

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Why on earth would I do something that silly?:silly:

One of the reasons that I grow indoors is to protect my crop from the degradation of THC that UV causes.
I also never expose cured buds to UV because they are no longer producing THC faster than the UV can destroy it.
Red and blue leds may or may not produce THC as fast as sunlight does, but the THC accumulates for the whole grow simply because there is no UV to break it down.

Now my meds are too strong! :stoned:
(Poor baby, yah?:D)

IMHO, UVb is just another stoner myth.

In short, don't need it, can't use it .
For the full rant. Check Merry Prankster's thread Bagseed LED grow.

Aloha,
Weezard

W,

I have requested the spec sheets on those custom made LED's. We'll see what they have to say for themselves, and then test them to see how full of it they are.

Hopefully, they can come through!

Have a ? on the wavelengths in the blue spectrum. The charts you show me say 430 and 452....yet most of these led lights are using 470. What should I really be aiming for?

Aloha O. M.

"HEY WEEZE, I hope you read this....to your plants so they know what theys suppose to do when they see uvb. lol
(Hey it's the main stream media, I don't trust them anyhow) "

At your request I read it to them.
Also read them a study on the effects of UVb on complex organic compounds.
Asked for a show of limbs if anybuddy wanted to hit the tanning booth....
Not a sausage!
Though they did show gratitude for the extra CO2.;)

Dese girls ain't dumb.:D

Most of the misinformation here just gets a smile out of me.
I got less important fish to fry.

People wanna buy Superthive and pretend it does something, that's fine by me,
(did a double blind once, waste of time, made no difference),
but it don't hurt nothin' but their pocketbook, yah?

Dicking around with UVb can blind you, burn your skin and kickstart melanoma!

So, I gotta open my yap about UV before someone goes and raises my insurance rates.:D
Just askin' folks to read and think before they jump on that little me-too wagon.

The rest of the dumb stuff?
Whatevah floats yer boats is alla time fine by me.
Wilder da better I just watch and learn.
An open mind is da bestest kind.

Regards,
Wee Zard

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ledtime

W,

I have requested the spec sheets on those custom made LED's. We'll see what they have to say for themselves, and then test them to see how full of it they are.

Don't get "hung-up" on minor details, brah.

Knna has a point when he says Ledengin emitters are less efficient than some others, but, as led producers leapfrog each other, one led is always going to be more or less efficient than the next.
It's a fluid situation.
Since none of the "wehavemorephotonsperWatt" guys was making 15 Watt emitters, at the time that I was designing my array, the choice was clear.
Might cost me 3 or 4 Watts more, but the overall results are outstanding!

Hopefully, they can come through!

Have a ? on the wavelengths in the blue spectrum. The charts you show me say 430 and 452....yet most of these led lights are using 470. What should I really be aiming for?

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Most of 'em use 460-470nm. because that's what has been affordable/available when they designed their lights.
Compromise is mandatory if you expect to make a profit.:(

If your supplier can provide 430 and 450 blue, woohoo!

Emerson would be tickled pink.
I'd really like to see that.:)

If not, I'd gun for dead center at 440 nm. with a wide "skirt".

Havin' fun yet?:D
Weeze

I love this stuff....it's nice to get back into scientific experiments. About 10 years ago I used to design heart catheters for a big corporation. Since then I've been in finance.

The exercise my brain is getting from this is quite refreshing!

These guys say they can make these LED's to my exact specs. It takes the cost of my units up by $55 to get the exact wavelength LED, but to me that's well worth it if they work!

I was thinking of instead of ordering their off the shelf 120W light with just the 470's, I would substitute in 50% 430nm and 50% 452nm to comprise the blue in the flowering light. Sound like a good plan?:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ledtime

I love this stuff....it's nice to get back into scientific experiments. About 10 years ago I used to design heart catheters for a big corporation. Since then I've been in finance.

The exercise my brain is getting from this is quite refreshing!

These guys say they can make these LED's to my exact specs. It takes the cost of my units up by $55 to get the exact wavelength LED, but to me that's well worth it if they work!

I was thinking of instead of ordering their off the shelf 120W light with just the 470's, I would substitute in 50% 430nm and 50% 452nm to comprise the blue in the flowering light. Sound like a good plan?:)

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I like it!:thumbsup:

W.

Weezard,

Here are the links to how I layed out the LED's on the two lamps. Should have them in about 10 days.

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/3276/90wlayout.jpg

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/9651/120wlayout.jpg

On the first link the unlabeled LED's are the 430nm. On the 120W all the reds are 660nm.:)

Here is the test results of the 660nm red 1W LED's that are going into my flowering light:

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/4903/red1wtest.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ledtime

Weezard,

Here are the links to how I layed out the LED's on the two lamps. Should have them in about 10 days.

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/3276/90wlayout.jpg

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/9651/120wlayout.jpg

On the first link the unlabeled LED's are the 430nm. On the 120W all the reds are 660nm.:)

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You should warn a guy when he might need a bib.
Done drooled all down da front of my best surf shirt.

I C U R N engineer kine guy.:cool:
Very pleased to meetcha!:)

Organized people are the only hope for us ADD kine guys.
Without my well organized wife, I'd prolly descend into piggery in very short while.:stoned:

From the last 2 years of :weedpoke:
I'd say you are going to be very happy with the bloom light.

I'm thrilled that you are trying the double-hump blue for veg.

I have some 5W. "Royal blue" leds though I can't remember the actual wavelength.
Their skirts have quite a bit of near uv.
Enough to make a blacklight poster scream.
Lights up my T-shirt just standing inna doorway.
But, of course, no UVb.
Plants vegged under it were greener and healthier looking than the ones under 470 nm.
A subjective judgement, not a real double blind.
But the difference was not subtle.

Now, we wait, yah?
Aloha,
Weeze