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I say if we can find high-powered class 2 LED's in IR (730nm) and UV-B (310-325nm) wavelengths, as well as 420nm,470nm,625nm,660nm,575nm, and make our own board, we will have a kickass LED growing light. I say make it approx 250-300 watts per light (ya thats like 2x the pyrocon).
Ya the plants look REALLY nice SnS. I think on some of your next grows you should experiment with IR and the whole Phytochrome FR and phytochrome R during flowering to reduce the nights. This is one advantage we can gain using LED's so I say if it helps, use it.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnSstealth
Red light is the most efficient monochromatic spectrum for plant growth. However, all the colors have functions. If a person were especially good at hearing bass sound, that means the other pitches should be emphasized, so that one could hear the whole melody. For light to be efficient for plant growth, it must be full spectrum with close to equal linearity and amplitude through the production of 400-700 nm, with a slight bump in the red.
One guys opinion, but real close to what I've been saying.
New Technology for Plant Lighting
good reading
thanks nole, i am interested in this how would we go about regulating the process? Its easy enough to get a IR LED light for CCTV systems but I dont know any other variables i.e. how long and when to run them(and if those are the right IR spectrum). How is it we could reduce the nights? it could be a big risk to mess with lighting times on a whole grow so i'd have to have a separate chamber.Quote:
Originally Posted by physicsnole
rofl nice one opie and keep the opinions coming it gets boring in here without themQuote:
Opieyutts
Nope. It's just like back in the early 1980's, when the government was performing all those gamma ray tests on us. Remember? When all those babies were born with 3 elbows and an overall olive green color?
Doughboy:smokin:
Physicsnole, Yes I have been researching from those exact nm. I have Many Componet's and order more every day!!!
MAN all the soldering and placement's of the group's.
Yes you are thinking in the right ball park. I'm using 10mm/four-way LED's/ with a mixing-spectrum program. Going to need a
robot, after all model's are stamp'd out.
Opie, Are you being (Felicitous), I know a invester!!! ME, MYSELF, and OH' YA, I. If you want to jump on the wagon, All-A'-Board!! Go check this out; (Way Down South, HATCH [email protected] . Don't Miss The Bus Guss!!. Later
Damn SnSstealth those plants are looking good. How old are they?
LED lighting is really great! Little expensive but is worth it in the long run. Check out the NEW FULL SPECTRUM LED GROW LIGHT it covers the same light growing spectrum as a HPS Lamp. www.UltraLEDLights.com
When I talked to them the said they would have them ready by the first of March. It will have the spectrum best for the flowering stage of growth.:thumbsup: I can't wait to try it, and I believe it will be less expensive than the UFO light and about 3 to 4 times larger. This type of lighting is getting better and better.
This is exactly what we are trying to avoid. The spectrum from a HPS light is inefficient. With LED's we can choose the best wavelengths with the greatest efficiency, 420nm, 470nm, 640nm, 660nm, 730nm, and UV-B.Quote:
Originally Posted by HelpingHand
The way I was going to control the different colors and mixing programs was with a microcontroller. With a microcontroller you could have set certain output pins (there are 28 in mine and each output pin can be a series of LED's) that control the changing colors (changing voltage) on a set time frame, like a calender.Quote:
Originally Posted by hatch
And why did you choose 10mm LED's? I found 5mm LED's to be pretty much the same brightness, however since 5mm are smaller you could have twice the LED's compared to 10mm. Just wondering. Also are you using drivers for the LED's?
Flower with shorter NightsQuote:
Originally Posted by SnSstealth
There are another pair of pigments involved in things here - phytochrome-R and Phytochrome-FR. Phyto-R is most sensitive at 660nm Red, while phyto-FR is most sensitive at about 730nm Far-Red, hence the R and FR naming (IE, JUST 735nm and very near wavelengths, but nothing under 710nm or so). With 735nm far-red/near-infrared emitters available then it's possible to flower cannabis with 15 hours 'daylight'. How? Why? Well, the plant senses that critical 12-hours-darkness that triggers flowering in cannabis because a critical amount of phytochrome-FR has slowly, naturally, reverted to phytochrome-R during the dark cycle. But during the 'day' 660nm red light converts the phyto-R into phyto-FR, while far-red 735nm light more slowly converts the phyto-FR back to phyto-R. So we run all lights for 15 hours, then run nothing but 735nm for another two hours and finally 7 hours darkness.- artificially driving much of the phyto-FR back to phyto-R without waiting 12 hours for the natural reversion- so you can actually flower with shorter nights.
That's 30% more light per day reaching the plant, the result is that we can pump 25%-30% more energy into the plant each day - that means 25%-30% more growth - during the flowering cycle. Pushing even longer is probably possible, with sufficient intensity of 735nm alone during some portion of the 'dark' cycle. Several experiments have already documented this effect.
Another interesting aspect of growing with LED's is pulsing them. Photosynthesis actually can occur at 100% with LED's being pulsed anywhere from 0-100 nanoseconds, longer pulses than this reduces photosynthetic effect. So by doing this we can save energy as pulsing the LED's for 100us on and 900us off would only have a 10% duty cycle so 1/10th of the total energy would be required compared to constant lighting. https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/tsharkey...ght%201995.pdf
look at the top left corner of page 266 for a detailed graph
It's just my opinion, Feel the 10mm cover's slightly more, I can feed a little higher voltage @ and still cover lower as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by physicsnole
Inverter's--to A PC. This is ONLY a test. Hope You Best of Luck with your project!!! Later
OK, so in your guys' humble or not so humble opinion, exactly what nanometers are needed for a proper LED array? Blue, far blue, red, far red, green, white, and yellow. I know you don't think we need the last three, but if somehow you were forced to use them in your hypothetical array, what nm exactly would you use? If cost didn't matter.
Well every color has some effect on the growth of plants. 470nm and 640nm are essentials. 420nm and 660 nm are also important, but not necessary. 730nm (IR) can be used for flowering and shorter night cycles (read my previous post about this). UV-B would also be a great addition for resin production. I have read that green and yellow colors also have photosynthetic benefits.Quote:
Originally Posted by Opie Yutts
So I would have UV-B, 420nm, 470nm, 570nm, 615nm, 640nm, 660nm, and730nm. I would leave out white UNLESS you wanted to gain additional lumens lost by the other colors.
I'm not going to repeat-myself! All your answer's are in previous post. LaterQuote:
Originally Posted by Opie Yutts
I don't know what I'm missing. There is no mention of the nm # I requested in your previous post. I started thinking you might have meant any of your previous posts and not your last one, so I went back to page 1 and went through all 11 pages looking for your answer. No luck. Lil help?Quote:
Originally Posted by hatch
ya I just did the same thing. eyes are watering now...Quote:
Originally Posted by Opie Yutts
if cost were no issue, id love to get some 660s...other than that, id say physicsnole got it down....
:smokebong:
whiskeytango
think you need to hit a few more bowls hatch. i do an awful lot of reapeating in here, and dont bitch really.:thumbsup:...it happens
I was al-ready taking more bong-hit's!! Thanks,Quote:
Originally Posted by SnSstealth
Hey not bitch'n,, Just that we had already covered the nm. I think we get a small 200nm to 270nm ultra-v-white-clear,blue-green 330nm to 550nm, 555nm to 635nm green,yellow,orange, 640nm to 700nm orange-red,I-red. Later
hey stealth-
im curious how this grow will result, but to b honest, all these specs are kinda blinding.
i'll just be watching from over here and let all you techno-lite-geeksters sort it out.
Rock.:thumbsup:
Uh, actually you didn't. 2 people unsuccessfully went back and looked through every page trying to find where you "already covered the nm", remember?Quote:
Originally Posted by hatch
I was just asking for a commitment from people serious about LED grow array development, as to what actual colors they would put in their dream design. If you don't want to share, fine, but please don't send me on any more wild goose chases. I'm not trying to be a dick, but I'm not sure if your last response was an attempt at answering my question, and I just don't understand stuff like "I think we get a small 200nm to 270nm ultra-v-white-clear"
SnS, physicsnole, thanks.
Hatch, I guess I was looking for something like this. It's based on the several days I've spent on and off, trying to figure this out. I've read charts, graphs, forums, articles, and results of experiments, until my brain started oozing out my eyeballs. As far as I know, there's unfortunately nowhere that comes right out and says, "these are the required wavelengths and percentages thereof for an optimum LED weed grow array". It's not for a lack of looking though.
UV: 275,290,310 5%
Blue: 412,440,470 20%
Green: 499 5%
Yellow: 566 2%
Amber: 613 3%
Red: 645,660 60%
Far Red: 730 5%
Until I can figure out something better, those are my dream wavelengths. Would anyone else like to share with the class?
These are perfect wavelengths Opie...however do you think there is a great enough red:blue ratio? 3:1 will do the job but 4:1 or even 5:1 are alot better for flowering. Also with the UV ranges...I think the only wavelength we need is UV-B 310nm, I think, unless you found that marijuana could use those lower UV wavelengths...just asking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Opie Yutts
UV: 310 5%
Blue: 420,470 15%
Green: 499 5%
Yellow: 566 2%
Amber: 613 3%
Red: 645,660 65%
Far Red: 730 5%
This would be my array..:rasta:
tis good rock. i think somehow our grow thread has merged with the LED imput please thread:wtf3: Im the one growing with LEDs, lol...and half the shit on here is hurting my head. This first grow is a test of the procyon and LED growing in general. next grow we can start with altering the blue/red ratios or pulsing, or micro-processing, flux capasitors....blah,blah
ah........bi-polar rant over.......:smokebong:, i feel better now.
right on man.
the flux capacitor bong always works best for me :smokebong:
opie and physics, have either of you read the article in high times? if they are claiming the UFO is that good, then we are set, cause the procyon is 15w stronger than the UFO with more red too. according to high times, pots P.A.R (photosynthetically active radiation) zone is 380-660Nm. and the reason there are only red and blue bulbs is because of the Emerson Enhancement Effect. which is hitting the plants with very short (blue) and long (red) wavelengths as opposed to the full spectrum made photosynthesis and absorption occur faster. "thus, it may be best for indoor growers to mix opposing wavelengths rather than using the HPS/MH mix."
I know you said you couldnt get to one opie, so im trying to include all the important info in here for ya....lol. they actually took 4 clones and put them respectively under a 400 MH, a 400HPS and an UFO LED light. and the UFO yeilded 12% more than the MH, but 5% less than the HPS. (hence HGL adding more red to the procyon).
Now for a written explantion that opie didnt get from someone else. I had to find this in writing before i put my 2 cents in opie...lol...In the trials there was a markedly different potency level with the LED light.SPECULATION is that the shortage of wavelengths aided this process, as abnormal stresses have been known to increase resin production.
So, NO ONE knows the reason for sure, but the final outcome of High Times test with the UFO against 400MH, 400 HPS was this. LED was more potent, 12% higher yeild than the MH, and 5% less than the HPS. in terms of grams per KwH consumed though, the LED yeilded 4 times the rest.
Part 3 of the article is out, Ill go get it tonight or something. If this answered anything opie, im glad...lol...know you have been trying to find stuff out, just tryin to give you facts, and not opinions. that why it took my a lil time to answer stuff.
I will have some pics up tonight also, i am excited for you guys to see them. the plants are actually shorter than they chould be. which is the opposite of what we thought would happen. no stretching at all. and there is massive lateral growth for their height. so i raised the lights up, cause i need about a foot more in height if i wanna start flowering the end of next week...lol
:smokebong:
whiskeytango
How do I start my own thread thing? I dont have alot of money so I am trying to go with the cheapest setup that will still be successful. i just started 2 plants, they are about 3 days in and have sprouted but i dont know if i have enough light. I have a 75 watt fluorescent tube that im using but im not sure this is enough. any suggestions on what to use that isnt very expensive that will still be good? i was thinking about buying two CFLs (one for each plant) would that be enough light or would i still need more?
go to the grow log area, and click start new thread. how big is the grow area? whats your medium? CFLs will work for 2 plants. Id use 4 for 2 plants, depending on the size of the grow area, is it closed off?, reflective material? need more info man
im using my closet i have them on a shelf that is about 1'x2.5' and about 3' high. the walls are painted white, and i hung a blanket up to close it off.
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...0212081129.jpg
idk if that worked^ but thats a picture of my setup.
holy hell man....shrink the pics next time...and how did you get that pic in there with only 5 posts? anyway, if you are only growing 2 plants, you should close the area down. way down. or add more plants...i love tall multi branch plants in soil, so i only have 1 plant per sq ft. 4 CFLs will grow those 2 plants fine if you close the area off more...but for using your whole closet, you will need at least a 400HPS....IMO
whiskeytango
i made a new post about it, but my bad, i have a big computer screen so i didnt realize it was that big. lol. how should i close it off? cuz i dont have the money for those lights. im stickin with the fluorescents. im not using the whole closet, just that shelf.(closed it off with a blanket, but idk if that does anything) how much do the CFLs cost? and what wattage should i get?
Sorry SnS, I didn't realize it would be a problem. I'll do things differently now.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnSstealth
What were you thinking man? 75 million gigawatts?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock.Steady
I appreciate it very muchly nicely. My input will be in the other thread now, unless it pertains specifically to your grow.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnSstealth
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...0212081129.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by SnSstealth
Stealth,
I have been watching your log from the get go and just wanted to say your doing a great job. Since stretching seemed to be one of the main issues it looks like youve dodged that bullet very well. Ive been trying to learn a lot of information pertaining to LED's and their effectiveness in growing marijuana and this log has helped a lot.
Keep it up bro!:thumbsup:
dodo
Ok, so I'm new to this thread. New to the forum, new to growing so I'll just introduce myself and give my two, maybe three cents.
Right now Im on my second grow, first isnt quite done but the second is well underway!!! My setup includes 250 Mh and 200W of T5 and a sep room with a 400 Hps. Currently I'm running over a dozen strains of genetics that are being cloned in a aero cloner. Only in my wildest dreams had I ever imagined I would have such a setup but I was very fortunate to get connected with some very talented growers who gave me all the genetics and have provided much appreciated mentoring.
Living in the northwest can get fucking cold!! I have to run two 1000 W heaters 24 hours a day just to keep my soil from freezing. Calculating it all out I spend like 70-90 bucks a month for this shit!! There must be a better way. There is a better way... L.E.D.'s !!! Duhn duh da daa!
Within the next month I plan to be converting to a full led setup. Hot, big, bright, expensive ass ligts, I don't think so. Not in my house. Not any more.
So, like many of you I have been researching the subject like crazy and feel like Im finally beginning to get a grasp on it. I have found a few LED manufacturers who produce LED in practically ANY wave length from mid 200's up through the 700 nm range. They also manufacture tons of different styles of bulbs, 5mm's 10mm 20mm!~! all different shapes, high outputs... whatever, they make it.
I haven't decided exactly what my LED renovation will consist of but I will have 430 nm ultra blue combined with 450-470 nm blue with a tad of 640 reds veging my plant. As with all artificial lighting there are downfalls and if LED has any they seem to be in flowering. Penetration seems to be the biggest issue LED growers have when flowering there plants so with excessive lighting I will resolve this. 50 watts of 650 nm reds combined with 50 watts of slightly higher 680 red. A tad of 465 nm blues and maybe even those T5's and I think Im covered. I was also thinking about rope light. Stringing LED rope light made with 650 nm lights in something like a tic tac toe pattern or grid thats low enough for the plants to grow up through..??? Could work. It would solve the issue of insignificant light penetration. I understand that sometimes plants leaves act kinda funny when they come into contact with LED's, twisting around and such, but that it isnt harmful to the plant, just a reaction to the over abundance of light. They dont know which way is up because the light seems to come from all directions.
Ok, thats quite enough. I'll probably start another thread just like this as soon as my LED's come.
Great thread though,
Later.
That's because LED grow light manufacturers put only two colors in their arrays. WRONG. Plants need all the spectrum, and green will help enormously with penetration.Quote:
Originally Posted by intheattic
Oh yeah, Hello and welcome. Nice to have you along and looking real forward to seeing your set up. Personally, I would make your own arrays, or have someone custom make them, or wait about 3 years for LEDs. There is soooo much manufactures are leaving out of their arrays at this point. Sure they grow weed, but for that price they should do a much better job.
Thanks for the welcome. I was actually planning on making my own arrays, most liking using those higher intensity bulbs. About the green light you recommend for penetration... any more insight as to why it is more effective? Also I have read that supplimenting your plants with green light is useless. Plants are green, they are green because they reflect green light not absorb it. Thats my understanding but of course I could be wrong. Any thoughts? Also, the lighted grid idea. Pointless, or potential?
Green light has many more uses than to bounce off plants. Every color of the spectrum has uses. (Not all 16 billion or whatever, but I think you know what I mean.) Green light is what penetrates the canopy. Without it only unshaded leaves and buds will be getting much, if any light. So I suppose if you are doing a lollipop-type grow, you wouldn't really need green. For all of us others, it would be beneficial. Besides, it helps the plants look like they should too (green not purple).
I used to believe the myth that green light does nothing, just because that's what everyone said. Well once I started reading actual things about botany and not just a weed forum, I started actually learning something about what plants need.
I think the grid idea seems like a good idea if you use a whole bunch of ropes. I don't think those normally have high power LEDs in them. Also, I would want some way to either raise and lower the plants or the rope grid, so it could stay near the top.