The "C" Crowd

What would make roots suffocate....and then get MORE 02 back in them....in the space of 24 hours.....while sitting in the same original bucket.

and Ps.....each time it does this MORE of the plant looks worse....I'm not really sure I buy transplant shock. The only thing I changed was from 2 gallons of water to six gallons....all else (except LOTS of xtra 02) remains the same.

The plant felt significantly better yesterday to suck down 200ppms from six gallons of water in six hours That just doesn't sound like a plant in shock to me. It then went rapidly downhill overnight. It sounds much more like the ebb and flow of symptoms of a sick plant trying to recover.

Not sure what to show so just took a bunch...I can take more if necessary....

One more time......

It's suffocating for sure .
The air , like electricty takes the path of least resistance . Bubbles are not penetrating that huge "SQUARE" :D block of roots , it's all coming up around the edges = no oxygen to the center of the root ball . It's happened to me w/ 1 plant in both my last 2 grows . Week 10 or so and limbo , plant just quits . Soon the fungus gnats will appear like w/ Deja mentioned in the other thread , maybe later due to your use of hydrozme .

Im gonna play in the dirt for a while cause im fed up w/ it myself . You still interested in a Intelitrack mover cheap Stinky - Email me ?

Peace
Crispi :jointsmile:

Hey how did a guy from Nigeria learn all this plant stuff?

Nigeria was once covered by lush and fertile rainforests.:cool:

Before X-C arrived you mean? :D

Ok the issue is INDEED lack of root space. We cut the smaller bucket apart (4 slits down sides....crack open leaving bottom intact and it is a MESS of crowded roots, fert, and crud It's like a bottleneck at the bottom and that's where the issue is imo.

We have flushed it as well as we can......I will show a pic in a few of what we got out in a afew but with four more weeks to go I seriously doubt this plant would be able to finish normally. As it is....I'll give it a day to see if it improves then it's gone. I don't have the slightest desire to put tons on energy into nursing a sick plant with a piss-poor (if ANY) yield at the end.

nice maternal instincts:wtf:


*ducks for cover from the frying pan now swinging for his head*

If grow space is precious then I'd consider giving up on a sickly plant. Otherwise I'd do what ever could be done.

sho

Shov, just ignore Rock.....he prefers the looooong grow. I agree with you that space/lighting etc are a BIG issue. I've lost an entire day of lighting due to one sick plant that has a REAL GOOD chance of not finishing. Doesn't really make sense to me to sacrifice the needs of three other healthy plants to nurse this thing along and "see if it makes it" and perhaps finish with an ounce or two.

I pretty much think the photos speak for themselves. The third photos shows about 2.5 gals of water flushed through the broken bucket and roots. (Ps....the REALLY light brown stuff floating at the top is bits of drilled plastic.)

We shall see........:cool:

I think the primary problem is that you just aren't getting water circulation around those roots- they're too packed. o2 rich water is just shunting around your incredibly dense rootball.

(See what happens when you let a powerplant eat all it wants?)

Anyway, it does kinda look like there may be a secondary pathogen issue- hopefully just psuedemonas shlurping up what ever 02 is making it to your roots, cause that's fixable.

Do the roots near the core feel kind of slimy?

I'd try to loosen up the rootball by hand and use my fingers to comb out any diseased tissue- I'm betting you've got a lot of semi-necrotic tissue in there that'll pop right out. It's nothing but a res of pathogens @ this point.

You could try boosting the o2 w/ some peroxide as well.

The wilt looks more like rhictozoma than pythium to me- but that's a pretty academic differance.

Seriously, with any luck it's just an aerobic slimecoat thing, and a little hand agitation and a good rinsing out will fix it.

This is gonna sound extreme, but have ya thought about physically inserting an airstone right into the center of that rootball? I mean, yeah, it's gonna shock the roots a little bit, but if it's intubation or suffocation, well, easy choice...

And def try the peroxide... Seen it stave off rhicto long enough to get out clean, if that's the problem.

Thanks Rhiz....it feels really good to get some confirmation of my thoughts.....

Remember my Master Kush roots? I think I'm better off than that but maybe not by much????

Rhiz....what were to happen if I pulled that bucket apart and let the roots and rocks fall out of that little bucket. Would I irreversibly rip out a bunch of roots? My thought is.....remove broken small red bucket....perhaps support the plant through the lid by the STEM?? or something? Does that make sense?

I have used peroxide at 12ml/5gal water (35%). Should I add more? I think you are right....the issue is that dense rootball needs more space.

I did seperate the larger roots into several groups that hang down instead sitting in a big lump but the ones in that little bucket are just crammed in there......

what about some chopsticks stuck right thru the rootball, resting on top of supports in the bucket?

You gotta bust that up some- it's going sour.

I did indeed "break up" that big rootball thing this afternoon. ;)

That is what my roots looked like on my last grow! You asked me to get some pictures but I was too excited about harvesting and I forgot (sorry) but they looked pretty much like that, really black and disgusting up the middle and pretty slimy throughout. Hopefully your issues will turn around!

I'm going to second the idea of inserting an airstone right into the root mass. You GOTTA force circulation somehow.
Shit, I didn't know that little red bucket was so solid or I'd have said something earlier about cutting larger pieces of it off so it looks less like swiss cheese and more like a skeleton!
Good thing the dro-whisperer can ID his pathogens ;)

Any change ?? how is the patient??

Lol, I was dying to tell my hydro guy it was a power plant....got the funny feeling he'd have a better idea if he knew. The plant had been doing so well it just seemed suspicously familiar when it started to go down.....just so much EARLIER than had happend to me before.

I haven't looked at the plant yet this morning....lights out.....but thoughts about removing that red bucket and letting the big rootball hang in the dwc bucket.....perhaps supported the the bucket lid and it's stem or something.....make any sense?

Hey Zeb....got another hour or so before I can look at her. ;)

The plant looked a bit better this morning but after some discussion Mr Hound and I called it....while she did seem to improve minimally the fact was that we felt we simply lost too much time (the plant appeared more like 3 weeks into flower than 5) and there was a fair amount of damage done to about the top 1/3 of the it that the plant would have to recover from. With those two things in mind.....we scrapped it. BUT......we learned several cool things along the way that we believe will improve our future growing wihout having to destroy equipment every grow.

After "autopsy" I've pretty much come to the conclusion that that the plant got rootbound, crud built up where the water and aircirculation was poorest and/or non-existent and then disease took over. Can't prove it.......but I'm sticking by that story. :D

That last pic looks nasty...is that root rot?? or the pathogens??

Zeb I honestly think it's a bit of both. ;)

Whats better to lightproof plastic/acrylic with.....tape (and what kind?) or paint (and what kind?) if the plastic is going to get dripped on/and or wet alot.

Still trying on my clones....lost a few due to being too wet/too much so trying some different timer combinations and experimenting. I HAVE to get this down because a VERY kind friend has gifted me with some "Super Silver Haze" that I can not wait to try but will have to go the clone route with because they are unsexed.

My friend sent me some Black Domina and Mendocino Madness as well. Black Domina is another one I can not wait to try. Who's familiar with the mendo madness?

damn WH, sorry to hear that, but your right, some babies gotta go for us to learn things;)
whiskeytango

Well Stealth to be fair I honestly do think the plant could have "pulled through" because it seemed the peroxide did stop the wilting in it's tracks. If this plant had been close to finishing (say within 2 weeks or something) or in veg I may have tried to nurse it for awhile but as it was it was costing us valuable time and lighting for very little return.

Edit....not to mention it could be placing our three remaining healthy flowering plants in danger of disease as well.

;)

I'd like to make a suggestion for future grows-
You might want to shell out for the round hydroton. The reason I say this is the SHAPE of the round pebbles vs. the random shapes of the gravel mean that the gravel may actually settle over time and sort of fit itself closer together- like playing Tetris, or shaking a box of corn flakes- and the size of the interstitial spaces will decrease, giving you less root space.
Anyway sorry to hear about the loss; did you at least chop it up for clones to practice your cutting technique?

Stinkster I was going to but got afraid becase of the possible fungus aspect. I DO have a plan for my next grow....which will be Power Plant and something I just bought (it's in the mail) called Brainstorm. Brainstorm (formerly Hempstar) is supposed to one of the highest yielding feminized strains so between these two (and my new IMPROVED bucket setups which I shall unveil in the next day or two :eek:) hopefully we will be seeing some trees here. Mr Hound and I are going shopping today for supplies. :)

Ps..I did think about returning to h-ton but have veteod it. I'll do ANYTHING else first....except perhaps coco or rockwool.......:D

Edit....have two PP babies about a week old in the cloner....so far they're doing well....no roots yet.....

http://www./brainstorm-feminized.html

Here's the ad for Brainstorm.....more Haze which I have come to be a huge fan of.

Is this the DP's Brainstorm???

Ummmmm......I have to say that I'm not really sure because the company I buy them from doesn't say. I don't use my seeds for breeding or anything so I am fairly sloppy about what kind I buy. I'm afraid I'm not the "seed purist" that others are. ;)

say hello to our LIL FREN'!!

So Mr Hound and I have been "brainstorming" (ouch :wtf:) for a larger setup and here's what we came up with.

This is the same tub....somewhat modified. We added a 1/2" stop valve at the bottom and we bought some acrylic for the top at home depot. We've also switched to 8"net pot bucket lids (designed for five gallon buckets) which I think will improve a lot of issues as well.

Again we put two 10' airstones at the bottom and we may add another stop valve on the back to create a completely recirculating system. As it is these (we've built two) can be hooked together, stand alone, or be hooked to a central res.

Note: We wanted our acrylic tops to be tough so we ended up going with 1/4" acrylic sheets that we had to saw down. My only comment......don't use acrylic that heavy unless you have a hacksaw or a blowtorch or something. The stuff is hard to cut through.

On both tops we cut an extra slot out and taped it so that we could check ph or add thiings as needed without disturbing the plant or having to lift it out.

And of course....the air pump that ate Milwaukee. :jointsmile:

So you might be asking why we didn't do this sooner. This answer is because I'm a bozo. I really did NOT WANT 15 gallons tubs sitting around the house (or even 6 or 8 FIVE gallon ones....) and could not figure out a way to keep things small when young and easy to switch to a larger container when the plant needs more room. It's taken me this long to get there......but....hey.....:stoned:

The other problem I have been having.....since the beginning actually.... is the damn red buckets. While drilling side holes kept them from overflowing it did not solve the actual drainage problem I had......it only exchanged that problem for another one. I'm REALLY hoping the 8" net pots will solve that problem as well as well as providing the plant with more root room when young. The 8" pots leave enough side room for the plants to utilize the side of the pot unlike with the square red buckets.

So we will start them in the w/f's in net pots and then transfer them to the larger containers when they really get going in flower. :thumbsup: Hopefully this will limit the amount of larger containers we will have to keep on hand. :)

Brainstorm arrived in the mail today (10 days after ordering) so we have popped that and a PP into RR's to germinate. :woohoo:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Weedhound

So you might be asking why we didn't do this sooner. This answer is because I'm a bozo. I really did NOT WANT 15 gallons tubs sitting around the house (or even 6 or 8 FIVE gallon ones....) and could not figure out a way to keep things small when young and easy to switch to a larger container when the plant needs more room. It's taken me this long to get there......but....hey.....:stoned:

The other problem I have been having.....since the beginning actually.... is the damn red buckets. While drilling side holes kept them from overflowing it did not solve the actual drainage problem I had......it only exchanged that problem for another one. I'm REALLY hoping the 8" net pots will solve that problem as well as well as providing the plant with more root room when young. The 8" pots leave enough side room for the plants to utilize the side of the pot unlike with the square red buckets.

So we will start them in the w/f's in net pots and then transfer them to the larger containers when they really get going in flower. :thumbsup: Hopefully this will limit the amount of larger containers we will have to keep on hand. :)

---

Hey that looks a lot like a DWC now... except for the drip ring thingee. If the roots suspend into the res then they will have plenty o' room (famous last words) to grow.

One comment/hint: get a couple of the flexible bubble strips for each res (aka bubble wands) from NWG and you'll be SO much more happy in the long run. I used those stones for some time now and I'm a lot happier now that I have the flexible air diffusers.

PS: I keep wondering if Mendo Madness might be a good next journal... what do you think?

Sounds good to me.....hate to say this since I seem to be the only one....but I hate those bubble wands. The flexible ones I haven't tried though.....what are they made out of?

I'd love to see what that MM does before I try it......;)

Hello there, again if you remember...I'm still kicking around, wanted to mention that everything looks green..YET again. Really beautiful and I'm Green with envy....sigh......

So have you tried the black dom? I had one, but it hermied, not a big weigher, good. I didn't have much luck, but then again I don't even consider myself a grower, despite that 800w I got flowing with the fan...now do you remember this chica???

Well anyhoo, can't say I'd every try hydro, but I so enjoy your escapades...mine have not gotten better.....I'm the hermie queen, maybe I should change my name??? lol
O, not to hijack, trying to make conv. My last grow I had 5 out of 6 being females but hermied terribly, the black dom was the first to finish but the best smoke.

Drop me a line anytime, I"m a poet and don't even know it....
Love ya! Happy Growin' and Tokin'
:jointsmile: Bree

G.M.T.A Sis . :thumbsup:
I ordered a 10 pk. of the bigger 10 inch ones yesterday , along w/ a MH conversion bulb to veg w/ my 250 hps .

Lots more places for the roots to go now besides just down , might = a less dense root mass and maybe fewer clogs . Well find out what goes on here this coming fall .
Looks good
Crispi :jointsmile:

Thanks X-C.....in thinking I've come to the conclusion that the longer veg time PLUS the 400w mh is turning out bigger plants so I had to compensate for that somehow. I just didn't want to go back to smaller plants.

very nice plants man what type of growlights do you use flouresent or HID?

Hello irk,

Thanks for stopping by and for the nice comments.

I use a 400wmh for vegging and a 1kw HPS (cool tube) for flowering. :)

wow you have a very professional set up. im growin mine under rows of flouresent lights and it seems to be doing fine but im still lookin for an affordable HPS ballast

Good lighting will reward you in high yield. It may be more expensive but when you consider the fact that you will be spending X time and X energy on your grow it's great to add significantly to the yield by doing no more than using quality lighting.
;)