Feminism (male input welcomed)

Birdgirl has gone out to run errands (which is why I'm sitting up at the computer). She's likely to argue that the decline in economic stability and the necessity of women entering the workforce is a result of what it actually is, a rise in the cost of living.

The claim that "economic issues that is a direct result of women entering the work force" is laughable. Check your economic trends and look at how much more houses, food, cars, health care, and child care cost now than they did a generation or more ago. Then look at how many more single-parent and working poor families there are now. You're going to see it's the economy itself and changes in family circumstances that are responsible for women being in the workforce, not women in the workforce who've caused the economic instability. You might also check your history for the rise of feminism. It doesn't herald back to the women's voting movement.

For me it seems the money is the root of many problems...
During my childhood, in the 80's, my country was in an economical crisis. My father worked by himself as boat designer, but that time nobody had money to make boats, so he had very few work. And of couse, very few money too. Some extreme days, we only ate because my neighbour gave us some food from her.
My mom could have decided to start working, instead staying home and raising me and my sister. But she prefered not. She thought it was more important to be raising us, personally, even through poverty times, than give us a 'better' life with more money, but without her at our side.
I greatly admire her for it. Now im a well raised man, thanks very much to her. We had difficult times, of course, but i see money is not everything. I think she did the right choice. Maybe the love of the money is what is making the society go downwards...

I'd like to see a dicussion about women and feminism with regards to the childfree.

Personally, I do not wish to be part of a "Village" and being responsible for taking care of kids.

I'd vote for Yillary when hell freezes over. :smokin:

Hmmmm... interesting turn. I thought this thread pretty well puttered out. I just had a hmmm moment as I read Slow's original thread and then Dutch's response. I couldn't help but think of her response to my post, and the fact that she said that just because one skeezy old guy calls himself a feminist doesn't mean I should let that ruin the label for me. Quite intuitive, thank you for the insight!

That popped into mind at her passionate reply to Slow's first post. Why should I, or she, care about one guy (who has certainly redeemed himself in following posts thought I, and others, I believe, still disagree with him) who might say some outrageous, insulting, outdated, or simply distasteful comments. Perhaps out best defense is not in claiming the title feminst, which is arguably too loaded of a term to be easily used anymore, but rather in assuming the confidence to move in this world. Trying to explain this.... the phrase from Shakespeare (I think) comes to mind "Methinks (s)he protests too much..." which seems to illustrate what I'm trying to say. Sometimes in constantly defending ourselves, in argueing for our equality, in insisting on its validity, we may be undermining it. Certainly, in far too many areas we still must insist, but perhaps if we simply assumed more and took life as granted that it is ours, perhaps we would be granted more. Could it be that we----ok, let me change that. I know that I hold myself back far more than any men ever do when I constantly convince myself why I should have the right to do this or say that or move in certain circles. Anyhow. I gotta run. Just thoughts.

Dutchlover...sorry to be hikacking your thread but I feel I have to respond. Guess I've spent too much time around BFA.

Dave Byrd.
I am sure you are a well educated man and I imagine at some point you must have taken micro and macro economics so I think you can see that you either dismised or ignored my central point that todays economy is a direct result of women CHOOSING to supliment thier husbands income in the 60's. When the few became the many it became the norm to have two incomes (Remember the euphemisim DINC? Dounble income, no children.) Well, the norm has become a necessity and in a strange twist of fate we are back to the old days when many couples stay together for economic reasons alone. I know you are white collar but if you doubt this go to your local chain store and ask some of the young women working there. I know of at least 3 women where I work who stay with there husbands only because they can't afford to go out on thier own. Sounds a lot like the old farm days when a man and a woman NEEDED eachother for survival.
My point, though I know you disagree, is that women choosing to go back to work has led to women having to go back to work and it was the feminist movement that started the ball rolling.

PS. I am aware that Susan B. Anthony was not the first suffereget, I was trying to keep things clear as we could debate the true beginings of feminism for days.

- Slow -

I am a shakespeare fan myself :)

no problem Slow, you should have a chance to respond...

Dutch.Lover wrote....
Here are some questions to get this thread off the ground, boys- feel free to answer them too (men can be feminists too!):

Do any of you identify yourselves as being a feminist? If so, do you feel comfortable telling other people this?

What stereotypes do you feel feminists have? Do you feel these are negative or positive?

What does feminism mean to you?

What issues do you think are most important for feminists?

Dutch, I would like to bring this back home If i may. You might have noticed this is a subject I feel pretty strongly about. I have a question....

How do you women who consider yourselves feminists feel about those women who choose to be stay at home moms? Does anyone remember how upsetting the notion was to the militant feminist that some women might preffer to be moms instead of working women?

- Slow -

I personally think women should do whatever they want to do with respect to working, or staying at home. You're totally right that a 'militant'/radical feminist wouldn't be too happy about women choosing to stay at home...in my opinion radical feminists are the ones who give the rest of us a bad name, but at the same time I think it's (or at least at the onset of feminism) them who get the most done. For example, in Vancouver we're preparing for the 2010 Olympics and there have been many protests against them, because our dumbass politicians and olympic chairsmen have completely neglected their promises when it comes to things like homelessness and the environment. The people who get in the news the most on this issue, are the most radical. The ones squatting in buildings about to be torn down, or the ones who have stolen the flag. I wouldn't really want to associate myself with them, but at the same time I admire their balls. lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by slowlickitysplit

When the few became the many it became the norm to have two incomes (Remember the euphemisim DINC? Dounble income, no children.) Well, the norm has become a necessity and in a strange twist of fate we are back to the old days when many couples stay together for economic reasons alone.

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I don't think Dave ignored your point. I think he pretty effectively dismissed it. And I fully agree with him.
DINC families maybe have the opportunity attain a higher standard of living, but how do you consider them to be responsible for the rise in the basic cost of living across the board?
You're bringing up two correlated trends and telling us one caused the other without providing any proof of such.

Poly,
This is a question of which came first, the chicken or the egg? Did women go into the work force from economic need as Dave appears to claim or did women going into the workforce bring about inflation as I claim? I support my theorey with an example at least. Dave uses big words to sound like he's quoting fact but in truth he simply stating his opinion.
To everyone: I am done with this line. You know where I stand and this is boring and a bit annoying.
Peace.

- Slow -