If we agree to disagree, does that mean we agree or disagree? I disagree that we agree if we agree to disagree, do you agree?
Toker
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If we agree to disagree, does that mean we agree or disagree? I disagree that we agree if we agree to disagree, do you agree?
Toker
News flash for you. Normal police officers carry semi-auto firearms all the time. Over 90% of police forces have switched to them from revolvers. What do you think a colt .45 is!? It's a semi-automatic pistol. Police have been using the colt .45 since 1911! It's obvious now that you don't know what you are talking about. SWAT teams are deployed for all sorts of BS now, from guys trying to kill themselves to people like us smoking a joint on the porch. How often do you hear of SWAT teams battling terrorists and gangs on the news? Are you saying they should use rubber bullets so as to not kill anyone. Rubber bullets are lethal at close ranges. And most cops are concerned with stopping power. They look for the most powerful devestating ammo. They want a round to stop and kill with the minimum amount of shots. A dead criminal is not a threat to them in court. This is why most officers are switching from 9mm to .45 as their choice of ammo. A lot of officers also carry so called "assault weapons" in their squad car trunks as a backup weapon if needed. I think it is good that they are better armed. I am not concerned, I am not a criminal so I'll keep my weapons, thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedater18
Guns don't kill, people do. That's not just a catch phrase. It really has meaning if you think about it. Long before there was guns, people killed each other. People would still kill today even if you got rid of every last gun.
Actually, it's the bullets that kill people.
If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns!
Restrictions on weapons, strick control over people entering and leaving the country, propaganda in the media, civil liberties out the door, and the government spying on it's own people, all these happened in germany in the 20's-40's, geeee isn't that what is happening here now too?
Time to revolt.
peace
heart
ummmmm yesQuote:
Originally Posted by Libertarian Toker
:confused:
lol I just meant we may disagree on alot of stuff, but we can lok past our differences and not have to fight and argue and hod grudges, and agree that we dont err agree....... (hopefully) lol
peace :)
There was a documentary on Sky One (that's the UK equivalent to Fox) yesterday called 'Lethal obssession: Why Americans love guns' and it really changed my opinion on the subject.
It would indeed seem that there are a select group of Americans who buy a single gun for protection, store it somewhere away from their kids but close by just in case of an emergency, and a group who watch an action movie, charge into their local gun store and shout 'GIMME THAT GUN THAT MEL GIBSON WAS USING IN THAT THAR LETHAL WEAPON PIK-CHUR' or whatever, then go home and cap their wife by accident.
I think the only reason gun violence is so high in America is simply because guns can be obtained just as easily as a CD album or computer game. It's definitely wrong to say 'Jesus, Americans are so dumb, why do they love guns?'. Everyone loves guns, that's why we have movies of people shooting eachother to shit, and if the wrong person get's influenced by said movies, they're gonna want a gun simply for the cool factor they just experienced in a make believe film, and then accidents happen. If guns were legal and readily available in the UK, we'd be exactly the same. The decision to make guns legal and easily obtainable in America can't be solely blamed for the gun violence, it takes an idiot to want to buy one so he can be Bruce Willis and end up killing someone by accident.
I wouldn't really consider the protection factor an argument on the other hand, after all, what do you need a gun to protect yourself from but another person with a gun?
True Button Basher, a lot of people love guns. America does have a love of guns. There are a lot of stupid people, but there are also a lot of smart, law abiding people as well. I see no reason to punish the law abiding citizens for the actions of the few stupid ones out there. I have quite a few firearms in my collection. 2 are for security and the rest are just fun to shoot. A gun for protection and home security is a tool that gives you an advantage over an intruder, whether they are armed with a firearm or not. Of course I don't advocate shooting first and ask questions later. Using deadly force should only come as a last ditch effort after all other resources have been used. You have no right to shoot someone that is not an imediate threat to your life. This means you can't shoot someone that is running through your living room with your TV. Let them take the damn TV. It is not worth a death on your hands or standing infront of a judge. There is a stereotype of gun owners in america as redneck idiots, militia people, or right wing crazy nuts, all eager to shoot someone. Yeah there are people like that out there, but 90% of gunowners I've met are your average everyday people. I am not against anyone's beliefs, but I am against people trying to take away from me and infringe upon my rights. Just like I am against people trying to claim I am a criminal for smoking cannabis. Some laws are unjust and need to be removed or disobeyed. :)
Cool Sawleaf, your the kind of sensible American that I think is given a bad rap by the few dumbasses that want a gun to turn the TV on with ¬.¬ !
But then again, after I posted I remembered the original topic of this thread, assault weapons.
Now if you want or need a gun for protection, you DEFINITELY don't need a fucking M16 or SPAS12 propped up against your wardrobe. One of the interviews in the documentary I spoke of was with some proper weird, fat, redneck dude who owned a gun shop in Nevada. When the interviewer asked him what the most powerful gun he sold was he pulled out some huge rifle and started talking about how it could take down elephants and hippos. I couldn't believe it! Where are you gonna find elephants and hippos in Nevada?? It's ridiculous. Presumeably if you shot a human with it it would just fucking destroy them, what kind of reason would you ever have for wishing that upon another human being? The interviewer asked the store owner what he'd do if he tried to take his gun off him and his exact reply was 'it'd be the last thing you ever did'! These are the kind of people that are considered just your average, gun-thirsty American by most people here in the UK and that's a sad fact.
Handguns? Sure, but your kidding yourself if you think you need some fucking AK for security.
historically, people are not disarmed for their safety by the loving government, it's usually because they're slaves.
look at the cities in the US with gun bans, and compare the crime statistics with those with the most lax gun laws. far more people use their guns for protection and aren't gun nuts than those who are.
there's a good UN quote, try looking it up, where someone stated that 'gun ownership threatens the legitimate power monopoly of the state' (unidir)...gun ownership threatens the dictatorship.
http://www.gunowners.org/
the assault weapons ban bans more than just assault weapons. we should all realize by now that just because legislation has a fluffy name, doesn't mean it just pertains to what the title is...patriot act (the opposite of what a patriot would do), partial birth abortion, assault weapons...federal reserve...
what the assault weapons ban does
http://www.gunowners.org/fs9403.htm
fact sheet:
http://www.gunowners.org/fstb.htm
http://www.gunowners.org
2004 gun control facts:
http://www.gunowners.org/fs0404.htm
what will it take for peole to understand that control doesn't work. how many hundreds of years of this type of action will it take.