My First Grow: Aeroponics, LED veg, Super HPS flower, CO2 sealed room

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Originally Posted by Apollonia

I love the Canna forums. Look at this post, what a great and knowledgeable community we've got here.

Weezard, again thank you for sharing your advanced knowledge of growing with me. The clear trichomes not being effected... wow, you sure gave me something to chew on (thank you thank you thank you!)

I've been running my UVB through out the flowering session, believing that b/c of my use of a Super HPS w/tempered glass reflector, I wouldn't be getting any of that lower frequency which would lead to lack of potency & ripening. But you're telling me the trichomes will cloud on their own, yes? And if they do so when the UVB is on them, they will amber & degrade rapidly, I take it.

Or, so it seems.
So far, it's theory backed by observation and science.

The UVB is at a distance of no less than 24" away from the plants and are on 5 hours a day. Since I am growing sativa dominant strains at the moment - I think I will shut my UVB for now & only turn it on at the last or second to last day for one hour if I think they need ripening up. So UVB does not cloud the trichomes, they cloud as they mature... They will cloud on their own, am I correct in my reading of your post?

Yes, but they do take a while under LEDs.
As they pile up they cloud but seldom brown.

May I ask how far away you place your UVB lights when you shine them on your plants? My UVB lights are T8's, 3 foot long, 36 Watts each & there are 4 of them. I imagine UVB, being at the lower end of the spectrum does not dissipate the way red light does & is able to penetrate from greater distances.

Approximately 93,000,000 miles, give or take a furlong.:D

I have a 4' germicidal UV tube that I use to erase e-proms that I planned to use for the "tanning", but, tropical sunshine is free., yah?

I do want these plant to have a more head high with only the C99, Blueberry cross having much body in it, so my need for amber is not the same as that of a person growing indicas for pain management, for example, there more UVB exposure might be required.

Just 2 things - wow those LEDs produce amazing trichomes, no wonder everyone raves about the potency of LED grown bud. 2- I'm amazed at how little amber causes a couchlock stone!

There were about twice as many ambers as the pictures show.
You know how hard it is to get a good snap.
I'm guessing that the thumpiness starts while the caps are still cloudy and begins to degrade when they start to "cook" and brown.

Thanks for the heads up, as I'd have ruined my plant's high going for a 50/50 mix of on the sativa-indica crosses!

I'm off to hermie's thread - thanks!

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You are quite welcome.
I like your work.

Aloha
Weeze

11/29/09 Update

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Unit 2 Canopy shot from front

End of week 6 for Units 1 & 2, first day of 7th week
End of week 3 for Unit 3, first day of 4th week
End of week 2 for Unit 4, first day of 3rd week

Today Unit 3 and the unit in the veg room had their reservoirs changed, unit 3 to aggressive bloom, mother reservoir to regular growth formula.

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C99 'grapefruit' cola

This week, trichome willing and if the plants keep to the schedule recommended by the breeder, should be the last week for our first 2 units before harvest day on the 6th of December at day 50. I hope I don't have to pull them early as I've noticed that after the addition of the Ripen one week ago, they have put on considerable weight. However, they have also been through a rough patch & I'm not just referring to the KoolBloom Dry.

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C99 'pineapple' with C99 x BB at the far right edge

At first I thought I was being over run by brown algae which I thought was choking/smothering the roots & eating their food which caused those pictures of damage I showed you before. I do believe that was a problem earlier on, but now as new growth is dandy & the yellowing is not continuing. Plus the PH is no longer climbing as it was when the algae was bit more of a problem - I believe the flushing out with FloraShield combined with the addition of Hygrozyme & FloraShield to the biweekly nutrient regiment either killed it off or at least kept it at bay from wreaking anymore havoc than it already had. Just to mention, "brown algae" is a misnomer - it belongs to a group of organisms previously classified as algae due to similarities in nutrient uptake, it is actually a cyanobacteria.

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C99 'grapefruit'

All seemed well, plants were improving, the yellowing had stopped, when quite suddenly midweek I noticed a more severe browning/crisping of the leaves at the top of unit 2. Naturally I thought the brown algae was back again, but the steady PH readings didn't seem to bear that out, they were holding steady and if anything, dropping a tad in Unit 3 - when you're dealing with brown algae, your PH swings up. What also convinced me was it wasn't just yellowing as it had before, it was browning & crisping and all the plants below the canopy weren't effected - all green. Plus, the leaves on the plants in the unit directly to the front of Unit 2 (Unit 4) were showing the same speckled browning & crisping as well on the side closest to the HPS - more importantly they were not yellowing as the older units had. I looked at a few pictures and it was clear the damage was heat stress. But why now? The canopy was at 90 degrees at it's highest but that should be no trouble for a plant room fully supplemented with Co2 and why the sudden sensitivity? It seems there was a broken timer, mechanical error, which lead to my Co2 burner not turning on for what I can gather must have been 2 or 3 days. This appears to be what caused the sudden heat damage. C99 X BB 'bravo' as the plant most effected, but basically, the plants directly below the HPS at the highest level of the canopy had their fan leaves burned. Especially those in Unit 2 as they were closer to the lights than the plants in Unit 1. Needless to say I replaced the timer & the Co2 is running on time again.

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C99 X A11 mid-level canopy

I hope the strain of it hasn't significantly damaged the plants in units 1 & 2 - the Ripen has significantly added weight to the blooms & they're drinking water like a champ. But a case of brown algae, no matter if it was contained, coupled with a spot of heat stress may have been too much for them, we shall see. I'll not cry as others have suffered far worse, a few days early harvest plus the favorable smoke reports will ease whatever sadness I will have over the lack of extra weight if an early harvest is needed.

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C99 X BB 'bravo' cola - this is the very highest point of the canopy, note the severest heat stress damage

I've decided the plants will be taken early if it appears that either the plant is just dying, or the buds are being damaged. Temporarily I am of the mind that if the sweet leaves start to yellow, I'll sacrifice them for a few more days of weight if it comes down to it, just to see what kind of weight I'd have sacrificed had I saved the "sweet leaves" to be used for hash. If the plants leaves yellowing progresses to shriveling and dying en masse, I think I have no choice but to harvest in that case - I have to remember that this is an annual & that it is natural for it to die after it has pushed forth it's final reproductive effort. Plants don't harvest on a set schedule & there are any factors that contribute, got to remember that too. I do not think the plants have been damaged enough to warrant an early harvest as the two older units are drinking their water like mad. The one I'm keeping my eye on is the C99 X A11 - the phenotype is very Apollo 11 and it's got an earlier flowering time than the others by one week and it is coincidentally this plant that is looking like it may be ready very, very soon despite being the least damaged plant of unit 2. I also want to harvest in stages b/c it's an experimental grow, taking the buds just as they start to turn cloudy, a 50/50 clear-cloudy, & a 100% cloudy harvest to compare, maybe also a harvest with 10-25% amber for the C99s crossed with Blueberry (as these 2 units are sativa dominant I think their best expression is in the THC/cerebral high)

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Unit 2 C99 X A11, the lower part of the canopy

Another less depressing thought is this: Units 1 & 2 suffered some heat burn, Units 1 & 2 also suffered an early but brief bout of what was likely brown algae which caused an interruption in nutrient uptake causing a deficiency, but I believe it was successfully handled and is no longer present. The yellowing & crinkling leaves I have seen before in many grows here people flush the last week or two, it's a deficit of nutrients but primarily Nitrogen. I used the Aggressive Bloom formula which, unlike regular Bloom, uses no FloraGro - the main source of Nitrogen. Given all in all, I'm inclined to think this explains the dramatic (to my newbie eyes) yellowing without a flush and the reports on the nice taste of sampled buds from the lab rats, plus the plants being annuals and are ending their life cycle naturally. Had the plants not had to deal with the microbial issue, the surrounding leaves likely would have stayed greener up to now. That's my present thought on the subject.

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C99 'grapefruit' the lower part of the canopy - these buds were shielded by higher vegetation too

Another thought regarding the possible brown algae - I took a reservoir and filled it with "tainted" equipment, the reservoir would have been tainted with the algae as well - I added to it the recommended Physan 20 dilution. When Physan 20 hits microbes, it fizzes like crazy. Here it didn't. However, the much used measuring bucket which surely had some bacteria on it did react with the Physan 20 mixture & fizzed up as it killed whatever microbes were there. As I even threw in some of the brown roots, they did not fizz. Perhaps after treating the unit for so long with Hygrozyme & FloraShield the algae disappeared along with any other significant amounts of microbes.

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C99 x BB 'echo cola

I think I may add here that I'm likely not going to flush this crop. Nitrogen has the biggest effect on taste and as you can tell from the leaves, it's not got much if any Nitrogen (or other minerals) left in it. I will of course flush the Hydroton after harvest.

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C99 X A11 bud - I'm keeping a close eye on this plant as it's showing signs of being a faster finisher than the others

I've added extra fans on the floors & mounted on the walls to increase circulation. In light of some information from Weezard & others on Canna forums about the effects of UVB I will be shutting off my UVB for the rest of the grow & just let them cloud & hit them with a bit of UVB for an hour or four to amber the desired amount of trichomes.

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C99 x A11 bud arm

Units 3 & 4

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Unit 3

Units 3 and 4, in their 3rd and 4th week respectively, have shot up considerably. I bent the stems down - sideways really, of some of the tallest plants that did not seem controllable by tying alone. I did this with C99 X BB 'echo' & other plants in Unit 2 early in flower and it healed quickly and went on to be one of my biggest plants.

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Unit 3 canopy

To my eye, the flowers seem to be developing well and on time. The PH in the reservoirs either stays steady or drops a few points, about 5.5, but they need to be topped of regularly as they are drinking a lot of water.

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Unit 4

As I'd mentioned in earlier posts, I'd pruned all the lower 1/3 growth, and I'm glad I did as the HPS is not properly centered and the lowest leaves & branches have been dropping off from lack of light - nothing drastic, but I am anxious to re-center the light and get them under the HPS proper. Of course I've been diligently removing all growth that is obviously dead or comes of very easily on all units to stave off bud rot.

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Unit 4 Blossoms

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Unit 3 Blueberry mother

I am mulling over the question of whether or not to "nuke" Units 3 and 4 with a dose of Physan 20 in a risky attempt to remove significant amounts of the brown algae that is present, but kept at bay by Hygrozyme and FloraShield. On one hand, I started these plants on Hygrozyme & FloraShield much earlier than the 2 older units so perhaps that will be enough to overpower it. In either case - Physan 20 or not - I might be adding some "bio-soup" I'm creating as a culture for my reservoirs as I explain below. The idea is to get a reservoir, fill it will water, bio-balls & an air stone, SubCultures M & B, FloraNectar & FloraBlend and use this mixture as a "tea" of beneficial microbials to start off reservoirs with before the algae or other nasties can take hold. If I due use the Physan 20, adding this tea will be essential or the algae will just grow back again. If I decide to continue without the Physan 20 routing, then the question is is it better to continue with the FloraShield - which is the sterile route or swap it out for the SubCulture bacterial soup - the organic control route. The decision whether or not to run even a small dose of Physan 20 through my plant's systems for a short while - no more than a few hours - is a heavy one as Physan 20 can kill plants very easily, even at recommended doses and below. I think perhaps it is wisest now to continue letting the Hygrozyme and the FloraShield do their work as I continually remove as many browned roots by hand as I can reach.

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Unit 3 Sugar Blossoms mother

The only thing "wrong" with either of the two younger units is the dropping off of lower canopy leaves and that very much appears to be due to their being out of the light - Unit 4 displays this more and it is the unit covered least, Unit 3 has a supplemental light (a Procyon 100) over it's canopy. Still, Lux readings are not bad at all - in the 100,000 - 300,000 range at the top and at the very lowest 56,000 - but those spots are small and at the very end. It will be remedied soon as Units 1 & 2 will be ready to be removed from the room & to be harvested. In light of this I'm inclined to go the way I have been unless I start to see signs of the nutrient deficiencies I saw before, which would mean the algae is now taking over and causing harm.

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Unit 3 Blueberry mother blossom

On another note, the Blueberry and Sugar Blossom mothers I chose are living up to their promise - they are vigorish, full of bud sites, strong & stocky. As I've been bending and tying the plants in Units 3 and 4, due to this uneven distribution of stressors during flowering I won't be picking a definitive mother directly based on the results I get in the end. If a plant becomes monster like C99 X A11 'alpha' did, then that's a different story, but as of now, they all look either weak or fine but too alike to make a choice.

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Unit 3 Blueberry mother blossoms

Veg Room & mother plants

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Veg Room

In the veg room all mothers have been topped to 3 nodes & are bushing out wonderfully - even little C99 x BB 'echo' was topped & has survived the chop so far (thankfully - he's the one I had to re-root) Since it is just as easy for me to keep 15 mothers as it is to keep 10, I may run a few grows to determine my favorites in the strains I had not previously selected for: Blue Apollo 'bravo' & 'echo', Sugar Berry 'hotel' & 'india', and Apollo 11 'bravo', 'delta', 'echo' & 'golf', if no real standouts occur as they did in units 1 and 2.

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Mother plants

Trichomes & Harvest:

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All pictures are of plants from Units 1 and 2. This is at 100x magnification

It appears that the trichomes on our plants in Units 1 and 2 have turned cloudier making me think I may be harvesting those two units on schedule around day 50 as I think a few more days would be all that's needed to turn them all mostly cloudy and add the extra weight. Another indicator is the hairs have been turning red to one degree or another and recommended flowering times are helpful to guide you. All these things taken into account will steer me in the right direction, I believe.

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200x magnification

I've included pictures taken at 100X magnification as this is the magnification many people use and are familiar with in the hope they'd share their insights.

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200X - this is a shot of C99 X BB 'bravo' - I've heard that blueberry strains don't exactly amber but turn purplish-blue. I wonder if that's what's being seen here at the base of the trichomes

To my eye, it could go either way - they either look clear or cloudy from this vantage (100X). It is probably a combination of both - which hints to me they have at least a few days to go before getting yanked. To ensure I'm seeing cloudy trichomes for certain, I may allow a small few to go amber just to see what trichomes look like at the latest stage of cloudiness. With the exception of C99 x BB, I wish to harvest the plants when they are showing mostly clouded trichomes, the C99-Blueberry cross I think I will harvest with 25% ambering. This I will accomplish by exposing the plant to UVB lighting for anywhere between 1-4 hours, checking the effects of exposure as I go.

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200x magnification

Improvements to grow:

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100x magnification

I've been able to determine what improvements I'd like to make to the room for fine tuning. First off, as I'd mentioned, I would center the HPSes and make the UVB lights more easily adjustable. Secondly, I'm going to add another chiller to eliminate the need for any supplemental cooling with an air-conditioner to make the room truly sealed (and I can cut down on the cost of refilling propane tanks so often). As per a tip from Weezard & dependent on the grow results - I think I may be removing the UVB from my grow as a constant presence & only using it at the last to "ripen up" in the last few days a few hours or one hour in one go or remove it entirely as the far red in the light may be enough to ripen the plant sufficiently.

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100x magnification

I'm also adding a reservoir of beneficial bacteria & mycorrhizae which will be maintained with an air-stone for oxygen & bio-balls for a livable substrate which will be used to add a few cups of it as water to start off reservoirs and for reservoir changes & toppings off to colonize the plant's roots & the reservoir itself - this is to head off the brown algae that did the damage to the grow in the first place. It will be replenished with standing water when needed.

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100x magnification

I may get a RO machine with UV to use to clear the replenishing water, but I'm reluctant as they seem to use a lot of water themselves. I'm less reluctant to do so as the water I'd be putting through reverse osmosis wouldn't be for all the reservoirs, just for the little colony I'd have going. I may also, in addition to adding a portion of this water to every reservoir, run each new unit through for about a week or two to establish the beneficials on the apparatus & plants (if I chose to do so with plants. I feel this will ensure and make clogged sprayers & overgrowth unlikely. Since I have it at hand, I'd probably use SubCulture M at full strength with some FloraBlend & FloraNectar added for food and run it for a week before adding the SubCulture B at full strength. Currently I'll be running a test of this new addition to see if it takes & if the bacteria become "gummy" & how likely it will be that the mixture will possibly be a source of clogged sprayers. Alternatively, if the bio-soup I'm thinking of concocting proves to be ineffective or a hindrance to the system in some way, my second option is to install UV filters in the reservoirs.

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100x magnification

I'd have rather the first method work out as the UV can interfere with the chelated metals in the nutrients causing problems specifically with iron, manganese & magnesium, off the top of my head. I don't know how to deal with such problems & I haven't found any resources on the subject, so option one looks the best right now. This is to fend off further outbreaks of brown algae & other microbial enemies, I got the inspiration from a thread at IC Mag - it's stickied & if you type brown algae, you can find it. It appears the solution the posters with brown algae in their systems came up with the solution of mixing in 3 cups or so of earthworm casings tea to their reservoirs - or using UV light sanitizers, but all after a thorough cleaning of all parts of their systems with the nuclear bomb of sanitizers - Physan 20. Which I may use myself after this grow as I did have to deal with the brown algae. I'd rather not and just clean with FloraShield or bleach & try to grow with the beneficials from there, but if it comes to it I may have to break out the biggest gun of all in our horticultural cache.

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200X magnification

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100X magnification

apollonia....those are some great tric shots......i need one of those maginifiers....if i had one my job would be so much easier! i personally like to take my plants a little more into the amber tric range like 30-40 before i cut and by the time my im at like a month cure they look like 70-80 amber! looks sick! but once again those are some fab. shots.....keep them coming!

Hey Apollonia,

How\'s that jungle of yours coming along? You should be getting close to chopping?? Or at least the stage where you really want to, but need to hold out longer..

Peace, Farmer Rich