Calling out to Weezard for LED advice
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreadedHermie
So I looked at 'em. Looks like a miniature heat pump. Great idea, if you have a place to exhaust the heat. :( The ones I saw drew like 2A, though. Is this the kinda thing you're talking about?
Bought them to cool leds but the power draw was not acceptable.
So, designed a shake table with a shroud to pull the heat from their hot sides.
The cold sides form a chamber that is held well below freezing.
The bottom of the chamber is a set of drawers with silkscreen stretched across them.
Trying to automate bubblehash production without all the ice-water and work.
Put the sugar-leaf in the chamber, turn on the shaker, wait a bit, scrape chilly kif , (Bubba Hash),:D off of the screens.
Just another pipe dream that may or may not work well.
It's not like I'm too busy to play, ya?
Zippy would be proud. Yow!
Weezard
Calling out to Weezard for LED advice
:clap: Dang, Weezard! You are like the Thomas Edison of reefer! (Or Rube Goldberg, maybe.) :D
I think I would try to mount such a machine in a semi-functional clothes dryer. The rotating drum (esp. if it's off-balance) could give you the shaking, and if you could get the waste heat to the drum you could at least dry your delicates with it.
Supporting a local economy is admirable, so shaking the table via hula-power is an inviting possiblity, and so socially responsible. ;)
I half expect you to come up with a machine that you just put a seed in, and 5 months later it spits out a nicely rolled doob. :jointsmile:
Received leds and fans already (also a PLN 60-15 and a 60-12). :dance: Hopefully I can find time to play this weekend, and go slow enough not to destroy anything else. :(
Any more helpful hints along those lines? :hippy:
Calling out to Weezard for LED advice
Quote:
When testing I start with everything tightly connected, use variable voltage setting and bring it up slowly until I hit my target current. Then record the voltage reading.
Weezard, I don't want to have a semantic-induced disaster here, so: The instructions I got with my Mastech are worded this way:
2.2 Operating Procedure
2.2.1 For constant voltage mode adjust controls 3 & 4 clockwise....
2.2.2 For constant current mode adjust controls 5 & 6 clockwise....
2.2.3 For restricted current protection mode switch on the power...
I can type the whole sections out (they're short) if this is different than the instruction book you got with your Mastech. They don't discuss a "variable voltage" setting per se, and following their procedures outlined above has been costly. Sorry to be such a dolt, but could you outline your start-up procedure to include "knob positions" before power-up, or otherwise reconcile your expression "variable voltage" to Mastech's "constant" or "restricted" modes?
I know following their instructions exactly will spike the leds. My electronics training consists entirely of having worked as a janitor at an audio shop in the early 70's (after I ran out of $ for school) and looking over the tech's shoulders as they worked and eavesdropping on their techie conversations. These guys were not too keen to share any info, and trying to read books (pre-internet) to figure out what they were talking about was really frustrating. I understand what pots and resistors do, and have been zapped by a few caps that were storing up a present for me. :eek: I have used tiny leds for years as indicator lights (with a drop-down resistor) but these high-power emitters are a different beast for sure.
I can do the simple math involved with calculations involving Ohm's law, but sometimes I'm baffled about which terms to plug into the equation, like when there are multiple values (2.2V here, 1.2V on the other side of a resistor, etc.)--which one gets plugged into the equation? :i feel stupid: (if that makes any sense?)
Thanks in advance. I think if you can explain this so I can understand it, I can eventually do a tutorial / build log so anybody that can solder can also do it. There's quite a few folks following this thread, unproductive as it has been to this point, so I think the interest is out there.
Seems like commercially produced led grow lamps are not getting any cheaper (contrary to what usually happens with tech stuff), and the Procyon was the only one that was honest about what components were used. Unfortunately, you risk paying high dollars for glorified china panels if you don't assemble the components yourself. There are a lot of profiteers out there jumping on the led bandwagon, but the fact that they're overstating their products' capabilities is causing lots of folks to discount led growing altogether.
Calling out to Weezard for LED advice
Quote:
I think if you can explain this so I can understand it
Sorry, Weezard. The power supply operation. That's what I'm talking about. Not the Ohm's Law stuff. If the need arises I'll make a calculation and ask for feedback.
I've been typing in a hurry, sorry if my posts have been jumping around a bit. Hermie
Calling out to Weezard for LED advice
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreadedHermie
Sorry, Weezard. The power supply operation. That's what I'm talking about. Not the Ohm's Law stuff. If the need arises I'll make a calculation and ask for feedback.
I've been typing in a hurry, sorry if my posts have been jumping around a bit. Hermie
No worries, been jumping around a bit meself of late.
Social obligations and all.
Will get back to you on the rest.
That "manual" was worse than worthless.
I tossed it and played it by ear.
Variable voltage is prolly what they call constant voltage.
I'll see about knobs 3, 4, 5, & 6 setting tomorrow.
The girls are asleep right now.
Basically, it's safe to turn the current adjust clockwise, (all the way up), and bring the voltage adjust up slowly until the current meter reads, say 1.25A.
the voltmeter will then show the actual Vf for that led.
Magic marker each LED, then plan on how to feed them.
What kine. manual did you get with the PLXXs?
l8r
Weeze
Calling out to Weezard for LED advice
This thread has been very helpful and too much of a coincidence for me not to post. Before I get into it, Weezard thanks for keeping your name the same across multiple forums, googling your name was what made me find and join this forum.
Crunchy - Completely independently, I swear :-), we ended up with almost the same LED set. I purchased 4 660, 1 Dental, and 2 WW 15watts from LEDEngin.
I'm in the process of getting all my materials together and am trying to figure out how to power these beasts, circuit theory 1 was entirely too long ago and I'm struggling. I'm thinking about going the easy route since I don't the appropriate equipment to create my own driver, so... I'm thinking of going the route of Mean Well PLN-60-48 to power the blue and the ww in series since their Vf is similar and possibly getting another one to power the 4 reds. First, is that the right choice? Secondly, I have a email out to LEDEngine for a data sheet on the 660, but if the numbers match the regular red data sheet I think I would be ok using the same power supply for my 660's. I've read this entire thread about 3 times now and I don't think the Vf for the 660's was measured, is it around 11V?
I also bought 7 cheap cpu heat sinks w/ fans to cool the LED's. Is there an easy way for me to power the cpu fans with the power supplies above or am I going to have to power them some other way?
Weezard - you have no idea how much research I have done in the past month, it's almost embarrassing. Finding and reading your posts was quite exciting and convinced me to spend my cash. Thanks.
Calling out to Weezard for LED advice
Welcome, Neural! Now Weezard class has two students enrolled.
I will give you my opinions happily, but until my ramblings are approved or condemned by Weezard, please take them for just that: the ramblings of a convicted LED killer. :pimp: I can you tell things that I did that probably cost $35 per boo-boo; knowing to avoid them should help... :hippy:
Quote:
I fired up the other reds, one a time, with no problems. Let them burn in for awhile; they were fairly consistent
10.8V giving 1.2A and
11.2-3V giving 1.5A.
Then, on one of many go-rounds, that first one I glued failed to light.
The higher you set the voltage on your power supply the more current the leds will draw. So, the group of 660's I got was very consistent and 10.8V would have been good for all of them. If you got 1 oddball that drew 1.2 amps at only 9V you'd need use a series resistor to prevent it from receiving more than 9V as you turn the shared supply up to 10.8V to power the "normal" leds. This is the problem with running the leds in series string. Putting that resistor on the 9V led puts it in series with all the other leds. too. So you get nowhere in terms of balancing the circuit.
DO NOT go all the way to 1.5A. This is a theoretical max and you can't run 'em that hard in the working light because, for example, if they get hotter they'll pull MORE juice, which will make them HOTTER, and so on.
1.2A is where Weezard likes to run the reds. There's a procedure for measuring Vf that employs a CC / CV bench power supply. You got wunna dem? (you can run the leds off 'em too, hint, hint).
The conventional wisdom (which I totally IGNORED when I ordered my drivers) is to mount the leds to a heatsink and see what voltage it takes to drive the led with your desired current. (using the bench suppply trick). Then you order a driver to fill that need. The Mean Well's are adjustable, so we should be able to get them dialed right in.
IF (big if) your WW and DB have almost identical Vf, and you put them in a series string, they would want ~45V to pull 1.2A each. The Mean Well claims to adjust down to 43.6V, so that should certainly work. But, you've got no simple way that I know of to balance the individual Vf's. (You know these 15Watt leds are really 4 x 5 watters in a series package, right?) They function like a "series string" of the older, individual emitters, so that's how I'm approaching putting them into the circuit. I plan on using the PLN 60-15 for my blues and wiring them in parallel so I can use balancing resistors if necessary.
You might check out the PWM controllers at Quikar.com. They look useful for balancing things out, you might be able to employ one for your fans. If you were running your reds at 11VC or so 12V case fans would work, but I'd get a second opinion on combining leds and fans on the same run.
Watt for watt, led drivers are so expensive and crap-ola wall-warts at 9-12V are sooo cheap, I plan on running the fans off their own circuit, mebbe 2, for backup.
The idea, as Weezard has said, is to waste as little energy as possible in resistors, etc. My problem is heat, so I especially don't need to be creating excess current only to dispose of it as heat.
Calling out to Weezard for LED advice
Yes, Weezard--No manual with the Mean Well's. They prolly figure anybody who'd order one would know what to do with it. I planned to set them to the desired voltage with a meter.
I would like to do an in-circuit measurement (hooked up before power-up:thumbsup:) to confirm "no-sag" or "CV compensation for sag" at some point. Sound expensive yet?
Calling out to Weezard for LED advice
"You might check out the PWM controllers at Quikar.com. They look useful for balancing things out, you might be able to employ one for your fans."
Not a bad idea.:thumbsup:
"If you were running your reds at 11VC or so 12V case fans would work, but I'd get a second opinion on combining leds and fans on the same run."
Fans and leds on a CC supply?
Not a good idea.
"Watt for watt, led drivers are so expensive and crap-ola wall-warts at 9-12V are sooo cheap, I plan on running the fans off their own circuit, mebbe 2, for backup."
Much better idea.:cool:
Ideally, we would not need fans at all.
But, that's another pipe dream.:hippy:
Park and lock it.
Not responsible.;)
Weezard
Calling out to Weezard for LED advice
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neural
This thread has been very helpful and too much of a coincidence for me not to post. Before I get into it, Weezard thanks for keeping your name the same across multiple forums, googling your name was what made me find and join this forum.
Aloha, Neural.
Mahalo and E como mai!
I'm just a simple, country 'zard, but you are welcome to whatever assistance we can provide.
..
Weezard - you have no idea how much research I have done in the past month, it's almost embarrassing.
Oh, ah dunno 'bout dat.
I just might have an inkling.:D
Did you get to read any of, "The Perfect LED Grow Light",
thread before it pissadeared?
Some brilliant stuff!
Finding and reading your posts was quite exciting and convinced me to spend my cash. Thanks.
Rutro!
Set loose the disclaimers!:)
Stack up the boilerplate.
Our liablility is limited to the admission price, or :twocents:, whichever is less.
Ah didn' do nodding!:D
You are welcome!
This is fun.
Wee Zard:jointsmile:
