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If I can add another obscure reference from the matrix...when Morpheus explains the definition of "real" being completely arbitrary and solely dependent on electrical signals being interpreted by the brain. It's essential true in essence, look at many of the mammals on earth that cannot observe the world by perceiving visible light.
Well... i think to say the awareness is caused solely by the brain is a bit precipitate, even if it is the usual viewpoint of todays science. I think what we call awareness is afected by the brain, but not caused by it. So, wouldnt be impossible to brainless beings to be aware, even if their awareness were completly alien to us.Quote:
Originally Posted by daihashi
Remember that during the middle ages people (and even the "scientists" from that times) didnt believe that the diseases were caused by invisible microorganisms, just because "it would be impossible that could there be such small living things", and because, after all, they were invisible.
Man... thats absolutely true. Its one of deepest realizations anyone can have... everything we see, everything we touch, everything we hear... its all into our brains, and only there. The world only is as we see for us. If we could enter the brain of a dog, for example, we would percieve the world in a completly different way, but as real as we call our world... real is what we take for being real. But in fact, nothing is absolutely real, cause how everything look like depends on the eye of the beholder.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barney Trouble
Of course everything is aware on some level. Plants are aware of lights, air, soil in their environment, pests. However that was not the original argument. The original argument was that plants have feelings. Which is a complex function of the brain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coelho
Show me a study or research article stating that plants have feelings.
We can prove that animals have a sense of fear, anger etc etc. Plants on the other hand do not.
Plants do not have the higher level functions needed to make emotions possible. To argue that plants have emotions is like saying definitively the sky and ocean are blue because the earth feels like it; when in actuality the sky and ocean are blue due to the shorter wavelengths of light that are unable to penetrate the atmosphere properly and getting trapped in gas particles causing them to reflect in all directions thus making the sky blue.
I feel that if people are going to make such far fetched claims they should back it with some sort of research and try to reference where they found the data to support their claims; otherwise it's all just fairy tales made from heresay.
That's actually pretty accurate. I took a biorobotics/cybernetics class where we learned a lot about how our brains work, so i'll see if I can contribute. :)
Your brain is divided up into a bunch of lobes, each which perform different tasks. This is where the idea comes from that you only use 10% of your brain. At any given time, you're only using a small part of your brain, but over the course of your life you use all of it. It's a lot like a house, in that you use every room, but most of the time, any given room is unoccupied.
But on the topic of brain speed, when your brain is stimulated a lot, it can speed up to about 40 Hz, although usually it's more like 12 Hz, and when you're asleep, it's a lot lower. But as far as the mechanism that your brain uses to operate, that's actually very well understood. You learn when your neurons strengthen the connections between them, and the way that neurons communicate with each other is rather simple. But you have trillions of neurons, with each one connected to thousands of other neurons, so the complexity of the whole system is astounding.
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Originally Posted by SantaClawz
well neither does a venus flytrap...Quote:
Originally Posted by daihashi
i was watching something on i dunno if it was history channel or mythbusters or sumthin.. but they were trynna see if the plant had feelings so they hooked it up to some electrode and made a guy stand in front of it and think about harming it... and as soon as he did the needs started to jump...
it was amazinggg..
at any one point in time im sure im using no less that 50% of my brain, this comes from nothing but i do feel that to be true, and by "me using" i mean, it is what is focused on what i consider focusing on something. As in typing this, thinking this in my head, and thinking about the music playing on my computer and the humming of my laptop, the light on the right of me, the slight pain i feel, and the tapping of my keyboard keys. And i feel that no more than 50% of my brain is concentrated on my functioning. that part of me which controls the heart, and other unvoluntary muscle movements, including those which occur due to my current motions, like moving my toe, or the movement of my fingers to type, and those caused from the changes in body posture which keep me erect and not falling. So i feel that at any one time there is somewhere between 50 and 100 percent brain usage, and that the amount is not measured in mass of useage, or connections, but it is used in the fact that about 50% of my actions are concious on some level, and 50% are, and while it may not seem like it, only a fraction of that 50% is something that im aware of at any one moment in time, and that is the part which is what i think with, that includes inner dialogue and memory tasks. so please, everyone, have at how im wrong.
Yeah, it might feel like you're using most of your brain, but are you really? I mean, what about the part of your brain that remembers how your grandma's fabric softener smells, or the name of your second grade teacher? Although I have to admit, when I'm stoned I can "feel" my brain working too. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy8778
Well, man, in this case im sorry. I meant the plants are aware, not that they have feelings like humans do.Quote:
Originally Posted by daihashi
Can we? I think we wont never ever know how an animal actually feels like. We only can see their "outside" reactions. When we see a dog moving its tail, we infer that its happy. But we cant actually know how the dog is feeling inside its dogs mind. We can only infer, only make assumptions based on their behavior compared with our behavior. But we can not assume that the animals are feeling the same things we humans feel, that the animal emotions "feels like" human emotions.Quote:
Originally Posted by daihashi
Indeed... plants cannot have human-like or animal-like emotions. But if we assume they have awareness, who knows how it feels like to be a plant?Quote:
Originally Posted by daihashi
Well... unfortunately i cant back up my "fairy tales" with any scientifical research, as todays science still is not developed enough to research such things.Quote:
Originally Posted by daihashi
But if you or anybody else has curiosity about from where i, a scientist (physicist) learned and had my mind made to believe such things, look at:
The Art of Dreaming
It can seems absurd initially. But if you take your time, think about it for long enough, and keep an open mind free from any preconceptions, everything will start to make sense.
coelho
you ever seen a beaten tortured dog? they have fear. call it fight-or-flight if you want but its semantics.Quote:
But we can not assume that the animals are feeling the same things we humans feel, that the animal emotions "feels like" human emotions.
db:smokin:
i have felt my brain working whilst high, and it is an awesome feeling, though if i think about it, i can imagine a sense of something if i think about any part of my body, including my brain. But on to the other part of what you said, when it comes to the "smell of grandma's fabric softener" my brain has made neural connections that when i sense the smell of the softner, the electrical impulses from my nose race through my brain, lighting up the "memory" of the smell and i recognize it, so at any one point in time im not thinking of my second grade teacher or grandma, but if i put a process to it, i become aware of their existence and the downy scent of g-ma, but only because i become aware of their existence, before i read your post, it wasnt a thought on my mind, but it was a path in my brain, so it wasnt used so much as stored in my brain. but it is a good point to bring forward, how do we consider usage, the amount of stored memories plus our current output, or just the memories/connections, or just the output, its a line which i drew for myself, how about for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by khronik