Emmies Grow Log - White Widow

Hello my faithful readers, today finds me wanting to do an update and fill you all in. I hope this day finds you happy and healthy. :thumbsup:

As you can see from my title, I have switched to flowering. After 5 days of this, #3 finally declared itself... yes, WW was right and it was a hermie right out of the seed. This was NOT stress induced; it was just inclined to swing that way. It was very interesting seeing this on my first grow. I have been blessed with good things to see as I learn my new hobby.

So, we are down to 1 plant. Our original #2 has turned out to be a wonderful girl and I will show you soon how she is doing. She went under the SCRog screen a couple of weeks back and we started learning how to do the initial training. All in all, after being corrected to put the screen horizontal things have gone very well. There were a few lessons along the way though...

The discussion earlier about the hormones that cause the lower branches to accelerate their growth was very enlightening. Sure enough, once the screen went horizontal and I nightly took care to make sure the main cola was lower than the tallest lower growth, this thing took off. All the lower branches started growing rapidly, and within a week all had reached the canopy level. So, next time I am going to start training in the veg tent to start this branching out from the bottom. This time in my naivet'e I thought, "I don't need to train them early with LST techniques, I am planning on doing a FIM and later the SCRog where they will get plenty of training." Yep... sure.... :stoned:

First off... the FIM didn't work so well. I guess I took too much. I also FIM'ed #3 and definitely got 4 main colas as a result. This girl, not so much. She stunted at the top for quite a while as a result of my evisceration and then slowly built back up a single cola at the top. Hmm... it wasn't supposed to do that. :(

My efforts did result in stimulating the side growth, but not without a severe stunting of about a week while she just looked at me with her stupid haircut and said, "Really? I mean... Really?" Next grow, I'm FIMing at the 4th node like is recommended. Then when they get near screen height I am going to tie them down... well before we head for the flowering tent.

You might remember that I took clones. Well... at first, that went very well. I had 3 out of 4 that were looking good after 10 days and I saw signs of roots in one of them at the bottom of the starter pot. I decided it was time to repot them into party cups. That was going well until I had a horrible accident. Somehow I caught my tray on my sleeve and tumbled the whole thing, cups, totally shocked new clones and soil all over the floor. Egads. I tried to save them. It looks like 1 is going to survive. grrrr. I will be treating #2 as a valuable mother at the end of this grow and will be sending her back in to veg after harvest. I guess in the remaining 8 weeks of this grow I am going to start a few more beans and see what we get out of the free seeds that came with this order. This might just be very interesting too.

The other big thing that has changed is that I reached the 20 day mark on my new soil from when I transplanted them to 3gal pots a while back. This is the point when the nutes in the last soil gave out and told me it was time to repot. So instead of again starving the grow, I brought out the FoxFarms trio and started the regime on the last week of vegging on the chart (we were at 7 weeks of veg at that point) and then when I was switching to flower, we moved to the first week of flower recommendations. Both plants at that time went nuts and were growing significantly each day. After murdering #3 because of its proclivity to swing both directions, I carefully examined the root ball and was very pleased with what I found. There was good thick root growth horizontally in the pot and it extended down with good root development all through the pot. The mass held together nicely and showed no signs of anything funny or alarming to my untrained eyes. It also did not appear to be root bound as there was still plenty of room for the roots to extend in all directions with outside wrapping only apparent at the very bottom.

Water needs have been slowly increasing and this week I noticed another jump. When we first moved to 3gal pots, 3 cups of water was enough to last just about 3 days. This changed to 2 days and then this last week, I saw the remaining plant use up 3 cups in 36 hours. It seems to be going in spurts now, and I am monitoring closely. I have also increased the water given to about 1 quart, hoping to get back to a 2-3 day water cycle. This of course is without runoff either... and I plan on this next watering which will be a non-nute watering to see just what amount it takes before I get runoff... but I am betting that it is very close to what I am now giving. We shall see. I dare say that I am starting to get a feel for her needs just by looking and checking my soil moisture level.

Ok.. enough of this. I am sure you want to see pictures. Right now I can count 45 bud sights that have or will soon hit the canopy. There are probably 20 more that might raise up. She is going to be a monster. She is filling 23% of the screen now and I expect her to reach 30-45% by the end of the second week of flowering when her stretching period ends. We shall see! :) Have I told you that this is fun? If not, it is!

Here we go... SCRog porn !!!

First, under the skirts...
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/e...der-canopy.jpg


And then, from the top...
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/e...top-canopy.jpg

I am not as much of a bondage expert as some around here seem to be ;), but its not looking too bad!

Enjoy,
Emmie

Where's the pics at? :wtf:

this is so gay

Quote:

---

it was just inclined to swing that way.

---

!!! :lol5: that plant looks like one of mine!! Great job with what you ended up with. :greenthumb:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by emilya

Hello my faithful readers, today finds me wanting to do an update and fill you all in. I hope this day finds you happy and healthy. :thumbsup:

As you can see from my title, I have switched to flowering. After 5 days of this, #3 finally declared itself... yes, WW was right and it was a hermie right out of the seed. This was NOT stress induced; it was just inclined to swing that way. It was very interesting seeing this on my first grow. I have been blessed with good things to see as I learn my new hobby.

So, we are down to 1 plant. Our original #2 has turned out to be a wonderful girl and I will show you soon how she is doing. She went under the SCRog screen a couple of weeks back and we started learning how to do the initial training. All in all, after being corrected to put the screen horizontal things have gone very well. There were a few lessons along the way though...

The discussion earlier about the hormones that cause the lower branches to accelerate their growth was very enlightening. Sure enough, once the screen went horizontal and I nightly took care to make sure the main cola was lower than the tallest lower growth, this thing took off. All the lower branches started growing rapidly, and within a week all had reached the canopy level. So, next time I am going to start training in the veg tent to start this branching out from the bottom. This time in my naivet'e I thought, "I don't need to train them early with LST techniques, I am planning on doing a FIM and later the SCRog where they will get plenty of training." Yep... sure.... :stoned:

First off... the FIM didn't work so well. I guess I took too much. I also FIM'ed #3 and definitely got 4 main colas as a result. This girl, not so much. She stunted at the top for quite a while as a result of my evisceration and then slowly built back up a single cola at the top. Hmm... it wasn't supposed to do that. :(

My efforts did result in stimulating the side growth, but not without a severe stunting of about a week while she just looked at me with her stupid haircut and said, "Really? I mean... Really?" Next grow, I'm FIMing at the 4th node like is recommended. Then when they get near screen height I am going to tie them down... well before we head for the flowering tent.

You might remember that I took clones. Well... at first, that went very well. I had 3 out of 4 that were looking good after 10 days and I saw signs of roots in one of them at the bottom of the starter pot. I decided it was time to repot them into party cups. That was going well until I had a horrible accident. Somehow I caught my tray on my sleeve and tumbled the whole thing, cups, totally shocked new clones and soil all over the floor. Egads. I tried to save them. It looks like 1 is going to survive. grrrr. I will be treating #2 as a valuable mother at the end of this grow and will be sending her back in to veg after harvest. I guess in the remaining 8 weeks of this grow I am going to start a few more beans and see what we get out of the free seeds that came with this order. This might just be very interesting too.

The other big thing that has changed is that I reached the 20 day mark on my new soil from when I transplanted them to 3gal pots a while back. This is the point when the nutes in the last soil gave out and told me it was time to repot. So instead of again starving the grow, I brought out the FoxFarms trio and started the regime on the last week of vegging on the chart (we were at 7 weeks of veg at that point) and then when I was switching to flower, we moved to the first week of flower recommendations. Both plants at that time went nuts and were growing significantly each day. After murdering #3 because of its proclivity to swing both directions, I carefully examined the root ball and was very pleased with what I found. There was good thick root growth horizontally in the pot and it extended down with good root development all through the pot. The mass held together nicely and showed no signs of anything funny or alarming to my untrained eyes. It also did not appear to be root bound as there was still plenty of room for the roots to extend in all directions with outside wrapping only apparent at the very bottom.

Water needs have been slowly increasing and this week I noticed another jump. When we first moved to 3gal pots, 3 cups of water was enough to last just about 3 days. This changed to 2 days and then this last week, I saw the remaining plant use up 3 cups in 36 hours. It seems to be going in spurts now, and I am monitoring closely. I have also increased the water given to about 1 quart, hoping to get back to a 2-3 day water cycle. This of course is without runoff either... and I plan on this next watering which will be a non-nute watering to see just what amount it takes before I get runoff... but I am betting that it is very close to what I am now giving. We shall see. I dare say that I am starting to get a feel for her needs just by looking and checking my soil moisture level.

Ok.. enough of this. I am sure you want to see pictures. Right now I can count 45 bud sights that have or will soon hit the canopy. There are probably 20 more that might raise up. She is going to be a monster. She is filling 23% of the screen now and I expect her to reach 30-45% by the end of the second week of flowering when her stretching period ends. We shall see! :) Have I told you that this is fun? If not, it is!

Here we go... SCRog porn !!!

First, under the skirts...
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/e...der-canopy.jpg


And then, from the top...
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/e...top-canopy.jpg

I am not as much of a bondage expert as some around here seem to be ;), but its not looking too bad!

Enjoy,
Emmie

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tikiroom

Where's the pics at? :wtf:

---

oops... my bad...
I think I know what I did wrong. Lets see if this fixes it...

SCRog porn, take two...

That is looking awesome Emmy! :thumbsup:


I like to keep training my new growth under the screen until I start getting little bud points, (about the size of a pencil eraser) Then I let it go UP, my typical result is a cola about 4" tall above the screen that turns sideways just below it. :hippy:


Looks like you've got about 10-15 main growing top bud points there,.... each of those should be about like This in just another short 8 weeks :S5: (Pic was Vannilluna done in SCROG ;) )

Quote:

---

My efforts did result in stimulating the side growth, but not without a severe stunting of about a week while she just looked at me with her stupid haircut and said, "Really? I mean... Really?"

---

LOL! Reminded me of my first effort at fimming which was worse. The poor thing ended up with 2 tops flanked by 2 pathetically mutilated half fan leaves.
#2's looking fab under her scrog bondage. She's grown into quite the monster :thumbsup:

looking good. Sounding good. Must be great

Quote:

---

http://boards.cannabis.com/members/e...ots-female.jpg"Note the Red Spots - FEMALE"

http://boards.cannabis.com/members/e...other-male.jpg"Another MALE"

Emmie

---

This worries me because I don't see the red spots to which you are referring and I am raising WW, about 3.5 weeks in, on which I see no red spots at all. They are feminizd seeds from Nir...a reputable NL firm, shall we say.

Also, and this is as an aside in case anyone reads this, I am growing them under LED and in the day times putting them outside in the sun (it's about 75 where I am). Is this going to mess them up as far as their diurnal rhythm? I thought that what the LED isn't giving them (24 hour cycle right now with 6 hours in the sun and the rest under the LED lamp in a mylar tent with good fan wind) the sun could give them a boost. I did this at first just with a couple of them whose roots I had slaughtered by over watering the first 2 weeks. They are leafing out, but at this time kind of look like umbrellas. I don't want to confuse the little darlings by over loving them, I have great ambitions for their future success.

I really enjoy the grow journals on this site, and yours is both through and explicit which I find very helpful. Thanks to you and to the commenters.

Peace

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trejedy

This worries me because I don't see the red spots to which you are referring and I am raising WW, about 3.5 weeks in, on which I see no red spots at all. They are feminizd seeds from Nir...a reputable NL firm, shall we say.

Also, and this is as an aside in case anyone reads this, I am growing them under LED and in the day times putting them outside in the sun (it's about 75 where I am). Is this going to mess them up as far as their diurnal rhythm? I thought that what the LED isn't giving them (24 hour cycle right now with 6 hours in the sun and the rest under the LED lamp in a mylar tent with good fan wind) the sun could give them a boost. I did this at first just with a couple of them whose roots I had slaughtered by over watering the first 2 weeks. They are leafing out, but at this time kind of look like umbrellas. I don't want to confuse the little darlings by over loving them, I have great ambitions for their future success.

I really enjoy the grow journals on this site, and yours is both through and explicit which I find very helpful. Thanks to you and to the commenters.

Peace

---

Never fear Trejedy... the red spot and trunk thing is simply a theory that was given to us by WW and is certainly not 100% accurate. Just keep raising your babies the best you can and sometime in the future they will reveal their sex to you. Our theory there looked like it was 100% accurate at one time, but if you read closely you will see that we had #4 dead wrong... the reddest one of the bunch, was clearly male. Also #3 fooled us and was both male and female, a true hermaphrodite. The one that was proven most accurate was our #1. He was all green and all male and had all the classic indicators... grew fastest, matured first etc. Trust me on this though... if you keep a close watch on your plants, the sex will become apparent before it becomes a crisis and you will have time to get them out of the flowering room. Keep calm my friend. The best advice I have ever gotten here on this forum was from our Rusty Trichome and I now pass it down to you... patience above all else.

Regarding your light and moving in and out of the house: I don't think that the light is going to be an issue right now since you are not letting them think that the end of the season is coming with a shortening of the light cycle. I doubt that this is an issue. I would however take special precautions as to stressing the plants in other ways with all this moving about. I know it sounds silly, but I did it with my clones... don't drop them! Sunlight has to be good for them, but that sort of defeats the purpose of having a big grow light doesn't it? Part of the reason that we can grow such amazing plants indoors is because we can control everything, light, temp, humidity and in that closed environment we can guard against things such as molds and funguses and pests. I would worry more that with the outside exposure that you also may attract pests such as spider mites and end up bringing them indoors with you. For that reason alone I would trust my lighting system to provide and keep them inside... but that's just me. I am convinced that given the right spectrum of light with a strong enough flux density, plants can thrive even better than under direct sunlight. I will say that I am convinced that used correctly, a good t5 high output florescent system can provide what the plants need to thrive, and I know that there are many who argue that LED systems can do the same. Experts may disagree with me on this, and I am of course no expert with half a grow under my belt. I invite you to start a new thread asking that question... not everyone reads my little grow log here you know.

Good luck with your grow...

Also, as long as I am here today.... here is some SCRog porn!

Emmie

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by emilya

The best advice I have ever gotten here on this forum was from our Rusty Trichome and I now pass it down to you... patience above all else.

---

Aww, shucks...:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by emilya

here is some SCRog porn!
Emmie

---

Much better than the last porn I was exposed to... :thumbsup:

Switching light spectrums is not recommended. In my opinion, keeping them under (proper) lights and on a timer would net much better results, and plants generally need an acclimation time when the enviornmental conditions change. A couple of other examples of enviornmental changes would include transplant shock, daytime temps that overheat and chill the plants, ph swings, changing nutrients mid-stream...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by emilya

Never fear Trejedy... the red spot and trunk thing is simply a theory that was given to us by WW and is certainly not 100% accurate. ...The best advice I have ever gotten here on this forum was from our Rusty Trichome and I now pass it down to you... patience above all else.

---

Phew, that's a relief. I thought I had a sausage fest going on here with all my ladies actually just dudes in drag. I'm fairly confident that the company is reliable, but will definitely keep and eye out for tell-tale balls...

Quote:

---

Regarding your light and moving in and out of the house: I don't think that the light is going to be an issue right now since you are not letting them think that the end of the season is coming with a shortening of the light cycle. I doubt that this is an issue. I would however take special precautions as to stressing the plants in other ways with all this moving about. I know it sounds silly, but I did it with my clones... don't drop them! Sunlight has to be good for them, but that sort of defeats the purpose of having a big grow light doesn't it? Part of the reason that we can grow such amazing plants indoors is because we can control everything, light, temp, humidity and in that closed environment we can guard against things such as molds and funguses and pests. I would worry more that with the outside exposure that you also may attract pests such as spider mites and end up bringing them indoors with you. For that reason alone I would trust my lighting system to provide and keep them inside... but that's just me. I am convinced that given the right spectrum of light with a strong enough flux density, plants can thrive even better than under direct sunlight. I will say that I am convinced that used correctly, a good t5 high output florescent system can provide what the plants need to thrive, and I know that there are many who argue that LED systems can do the same. Experts may disagree with me on this, and I am of course no expert with half a grow under my belt. I invite you to start a new thread asking that question... not everyone reads my little grow log here you know.

---

I will start a thread with this later when I get a minute, but the possibility of introducing mites, fungus, etc. was something I thought about. I was both hoping that it is a bit too early for the mites, and intend to use neem oil on the leaves when they get a little more robust.` I read that every couple of weeks a spritz of neem on the plants will prevent spider mites from enjoying the fruits of my labor, but again, I will keep an eye out for the signs. You are right it sort of defeats the purpose of the environment we create bringing the plants outside. But I am unsure about LEDs, not an expert in their use, and chose them for their parsimonious, environmentally friendly electricity use, plus the fact that they produce so little heat that I can put them practically on top of the plants and not worry about burn.

The plants are still quite small and I can transport them all conveniently in a walmart basket that I pilfered, and I am very careful with placement so they aren't stressed. I do wonder though about the sunlight. You are right in that they get light all day so it would seem like they wouldn't be affected by the sun/LED combo, but the suns strength does vary during the day and I wonder if the plants react to that waxing and waning. Like I said, I just don't want to confuse them. They are dearer to me than my own imaginary daughter...;-)

Thanks for the reply and the well-wishes. I look forward to hearing how you grow(s) progress(es).

Peace

Trejedy

Keep an eye our for bugs and insects when taking them outside during the day. They tend to hitchike a ride indoors. Bad news for other houseplants, other occupants...

I replied (which doesn't seem to have made it to print) with thanks and an agreement that I'll stop with the lightsource changes. Your words make sense, I suspected those issues before. Thanks

Hello dear friends,

Today is day 12 of flowering. The plants are changing almost daily now in ways that I can see without much trouble. A tremendous amount of stretching is going on still and with it a more than doubling of the water needs from 3 cups every 2 days to 6 cups. I suspect that in the coming weeks when we start putting some weight on these buds, those needs will double again, but not knowing for sure I still monitor water use very carefully and log each exact time and amount as well as if it was a nutrient watering. I have been following the recommendations from Fox Farm and have been giving the recommended amounts of nutes, every other time and just plain PH'ed water in the in-between times.

The smell has changed noticeably too. Now, its not as much a green growing thing smell with a bit of a pepper spice, it has become sweeter and a bit more pungent. Not so much the "green" smell now as it is that of a flower getting ready to bloom. I am really looking forward to experiencing the smell of the maturing buds in the next 6-8 weeks.
The bud sites are everywhere now and the buds are changing from the leafy vegetation growths that we have seen up until now, to something completely different, denser and filled with pistils. They are indeed starting to turn into flowers. It is a beautiful sight... the pictures just do not do it justice.

The SCRog screen is working wonderfully. I suspect that in the next 5-7 days we will see an end to the stretching and all effort will be on building the flowers. Training on the screen will end when I see that happen. When I first placed her under the screen she filled aproximimately 4% of the available holes. Today's count puts her just over 30% of the 3sqm screen filled. This is incredible to me, and now I know that putting more than two 9 week old plants with good side growth under this screen would be way too much. The ideas presented earlier about putting younger plants under the SCRog make much more sense to me now that I have seen this.

It has been a long journey getting to this point, but we are now in the downward stretch of this grow log. I will update when I see noticeable changes, which I suspect will come once or twice a week until we are done. According to the seed supplier, this is an 8-9 week strain, so we are 6-7 weeks away from harvest if that holds true.

Here are the pictures! I hope you enjoy them as much as I do!

Emmie

I envy you now that I lost mine. :( Looks good, and I hope you have great success. :thumbsup:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by emilya

Hello dear friends,

Today is day 12 of flowering. The plants are changing almost daily now in ways that I can see without much trouble. A tremendous amount of stretching is going on still and with it a more than doubling of the water needs from 3 cups every 2 days to 6 cups. I suspect that in the coming weeks when we start putting some weight on these buds, those needs will double again, but not knowing for sure I still monitor water use very carefully and log each exact time and amount as well as if it was a nutrient watering. I have been following the recommendations from Fox Farm and have been giving the recommended amounts of nutes, every other time and just plain PH'ed water in the in-between times.

The smell has changed noticeably too. Now, its not as much a green growing thing smell with a bit of a pepper spice, it has become sweeter and a bit more pungent. Not so much the "green" smell now as it is that of a flower getting ready to bloom. I am really looking forward to experiencing the smell of the maturing buds in the next 6-8 weeks.
The bud sites are everywhere now and the buds are changing from the leafy vegetation growths that we have seen up until now, to something completely different, denser and filled with pistils. They are indeed starting to turn into flowers. It is a beautiful sight... the pictures just do not do it justice.

The SCRog screen is working wonderfully. I suspect that in the next 5-7 days we will see an end to the stretching and all effort will be on building the flowers. Training on the screen will end when I see that happen. When I first placed her under the screen she filled aproximimately 4% of the available holes. Today's count puts her just over 30% of the 3sqm screen filled. This is incredible to me, and now I know that putting more than two 9 week old plants with good side growth under this screen would be way too much. The ideas presented earlier about putting younger plants under the SCRog make much more sense to me now that I have seen this.

It has been a long journey getting to this point, but we are now in the downward stretch of this grow log. I will update when I see noticeable changes, which I suspect will come once or twice a week until we are done. According to the seed supplier, this is an 8-9 week strain, so we are 6-7 weeks away from harvest if that holds true.

Here are the pictures! I hope you enjoy them as much as I do!

Emmie

---

this is where the moisture meter helps again..:thumbsup:..don't let them go too dry. It's easy to do, when plants are calling for more moisture....not more nutes!...more moisture...IMO.

if you have good drainage?...it's hard to overwater during flowering...IMO

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dutch Pimp

this is where the moisture meter helps again..:thumbsup:..don't let them go too dry. It's easy to do, when plants are calling for more moisture....not more nutes!...more moisture...IMO.

if you have good drainage?...it's hard to overwater during flowering...IMO

---

I would be lost without my meter. I'm sure my girl keeps a watchful leaf out for my appearance. I'm like that nurse you get in the hospital that keeps coming by several times a day... and you know she is going to jab you with something each time... if its not a thermometer, its a needle. Yep... its like that. ;)

Emmie

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by emilya

The ideas presented earlier about putting younger plants under the SCRog make much more sense to me now that I have seen this.

---

You starting to see what I meant about all the undergrowth? :upsidedow

Your girl is looking great. It only gets better from here. :thumbsup:

That's looking good, yo! You must be pleased with yourself. As we discussed, 6 younger / smaller plants will do you better, especially now that you have it dialed in. Also, read up on stripping out the undergrowth. Those bud sites and leaves that are below the screen will not get near enough light to do anything. Better to remove them now or in the very near future so that the plant can focus all energy on growth above the canopy. Leave any branches that will make it to the screen. Remove the rest. This also promotes better air flow so less chance of mold. But read up and make your own decision. Although the majority seems to agree, opinions do vary. That is how I do mine and it works for me.

This one is looking so nice I suggest that you name her Hillary... I named my latest "Habibti Suzanne" (which translates as, "My dearest Suzanne") after Suzanne Mubarak. I can't wait to go back to Cairo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tikiroom

You starting to see what I meant about all the undergrowth? :upsidedow

Your girl is looking great. It only gets better from here. :thumbsup:

---

Yep, she's gonna need to do some weeding in the undergrowth,.... I went thru my big blueberry SCROG last night and pulled some viable clones from her,.... I'm gonna add to the "Let the cloning begin" thread by posting the results of rooting clones taken @ week 2 of flowering ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by canniwhatsis

Yep, she's gonna need to do some weeding in the undergrowth,.... I went thru my big blueberry SCROG last night and pulled some viable clones from her,.... I'm gonna add to the "Let the cloning begin" thread by posting the results of rooting clones taken @ week 2 of flowering ;)

---

I have been planning on taking a few more clones (since I murdered most of the last bunch) and then cleaning up a bit under there... but some midterm tests got in the way this week. I am going to try the bubbler method this time to further my experience. But, to do that I need to make a trip to wal*mart and I just haven't had time to do it yet. A couple more days I think, but I am still on the fence about stressing her by cleaning out too much. I still have some reading to do about this. I have pretty good airflow in there and have temp and humidity well in control... so I'm not too worried about mold. I know that some say it increases growing at the top, and others have said it really didn't make a difference. I tend to fall on the side of thinking that too much messing around is not good and that pruning like this would induce stress that at least might extend the grow by a few days to a week, and at worst might cause her to rethink her sexual stance. I have actually wondered if it might be less stressful to add a few CFL's at the screen level all around to encourage growth under there. I can't help it... I've got to think outside the box, its in my nature.

Emmie

looking great since my last check in:thumbsup:

For me it's not so much air circulation, as just not liking having a bunch of otherwise worthless buds that are impossible to trim, dry to whisps, and evaporate anywhere near an open flame.

I would rather have the plant put its energy into producing flowers up where there's enough light to do so, and I can't afford the extra wattage to lace my grow with CFL's to get light in the undergrowth. (tho if I could I would! :hippy: )

As such, if it's not going to make it all the way to the screen (and appropriate lighting) during stretch, it gets pruned out. I do it in week 2 or 3 depending on strain.

As for stressing the plant I haven't noticed a difference pruned or unpruned in the length of flower or potency of meds.

I'm NOT talking about taking EVERYTHING under the screen, just the stragglers that won't make it to screen level or close. My 600w HPS makes it about 3" below the screen in a developed canopy (So around 7-9" tottal) with enough energy to grow good buds,.... below that and it's garbage.

Settle back and relax my dear friends, we have been apart for a while now, and this update will be a long one. Much has happened this week and I have many things to tell you. It is going very well in my garden. We have seen an end to the stretching period now and I will not be doing much more training other than the tuck of a fan leaf or two from this point forward. Already I am seeing the first trichomes forming on the bud leaves, and the buds are turning into dense little flowers.



(look at that frost already starting to form!)
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/e...-600-x-491.png

The hard work of organizing the SCRog is now done, and it is time to sit back and watch the well earned results. Hillary (yes, she was named by Bigsby) stretched approximately 45% from the time the lights were switched to 12/12. She has become a monster with a flower site count from the top totaling well over 100. I have added the FoxFarm solubles to the nutrient mix and am following the suggested feeding schedule to the letter. This 3rd and 4th week of the schedule has me giving her 4 different products every other watering, a massive load of nutrients and the most at one time that FoxFarm ever recommends. Almost all of this fertilizer mega-load is directed at forming more, larger and denser bud formations. No other place in the schedule throws this many nutrients at her in one feeding. This next 2 weeks is where a lot of the bud mass and size is going to come from and I am giving her all the help that I can. When you think about it, the total nutrient load that I am giving her right now costs approximately $0.42 per every other watering, or on the average about $0.60/week. This is cheap yâ??allâ?¦ and oh what a difference it makes!


(imagine what this will look like in 3 more weeks)
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/e...-600-x-450.png

I mentioned that I counted the flower sites from the top to be over 100. There are another 50 or so under the canopy. I found myself in quite a quandary as to what to do about this. Some recommend stripping out the undergrowth, especially those flower sites that have no chance of reaching the canopy. Others remind us that in a SCRog the fan leaves get in the way of bud sites trying to grow to reach the light. Still others say that all one can expect to get under there are little popcorn buds. My inclination however, is to NOT go in there all Zena like and start chopping away at this beautiful plant. My first thought was that I do NOT want to introduce this kind of stress into a flowering plant. Then I considered that I was taught not to wasteâ?¦ waste not; want not, they say. Lastly, there is my natural inclination to always ask if there is a way to think outside the box and improve something.


So, I spent more money! I have added 2- 125W CFL bulbs to my setup and have them positioned just under the canopy. One is hanging by a yo-yo and the other has found the most perfect use for my very first mistake, the box of Miracle Grow plant food that I bought before I knew better. The CFLâ??s base sits on this box and this puts the bulb at the perfect height to supply its 7000 lumens to the back side under the canopy while at the same time effectively blocking any possible access to the contents of this horrible product.


Soâ?¦ what has resulted from all this extra light under the screen? One of the observations that led me to consider adding the 2 lights was that some of the lower fan leaves were being shut down; they were yellowing and then falling off. I reasoned that this was due to the lack of light penetrating the canopy. Upon observation though, this may not be the entire reason that these lower leaves are shed. The additional 14,000 lumens under the canopy has definitely had an effect. The buds under there are growing in size dramatically, and with the added light/heat along with the air circulation that we had already, there is very little chance of mold growing under the canopy. Did this entirely stop the shedding of lower fan leaves? NO. It seems that when the plant decides that it is time to turn off the production factories in those lower leaves, it will do so. It doesnâ??t matter if there is light for them under there. I am reasoning that it is simply inefficient for the plant to produce the sugars and all the bud-producing-yummy-stuff in those fan leaves way down low and then have to pump it up to the top where all the action is. Hillary has decided to move production up the stem to more efficient factories closer to or on the canopy. My expert friends will chime in here hopefully and tell me if my conclusions have any merit, but this is what I think I am seeing. I am very pleased however, that even though the added lights are not going to keep all the older fan leaves alive, the lights are going to add to the final yield with much larger bud sizes under the canopy than could have been had before.


(life under the canopy)
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/e...-600-x-450.png

The added lights had another very interesting effect. With more light on more surface area we saw an almost immediate increase in water use. Within a day of the photon enhancement, Hillaryâ??s water use went from 6 cups per watering to ½ gallon! Overall then, I see the added lights under the canopy as a very positive improvement as compared to trimming underneath. First, it caused added bud growth. Second, it is much easier to manage a well-lit neighborhood. Third, more water use means more internal activity which I have to equate to the possibility of a larger and better yield. And fourth and probably most importantâ?¦ with the added water use it means that she will be able to uptake even more nutrients than before. This gives her a much better chance of a large yield as I would estimate that over the length of the grow I am now going to feed her 20% more nutrients than would have been possible to give before the added side lights.


With all these extra nutrients comes a danger of salt buildup and nutrient lockup. I am learning well my dear professors, and with my last plain water watering, I flushed Hillary with 3 times her required ½ gallon of PHâ??ed water. I got the clue that this was necessary when on the last water cycle she slowed downâ?¦ and instead of using her water in 48 hours as she has been doing for a few weeks, she slowed down to not needing water for 60 hours. After the flush, she returned to her typical 48 hours to uptake all the water. It is amazing how much plants can tell you if you just pay attention!


So, we seem to be on a schedule and she has adapted well to the 12/12 cycle. She is happiest when I water her immediately after the lights come on as opposed to doing it before lights out, so in that way, she has trained me too. At each plain water watering, I attempt to add a bit more water than the last time, going for runoff to show me if she has changed how much she needs. I have to believe that as we move further into bud production and the physical size of the plant increases, these water needs are going to continue to accelerate, and I am watching for her to tell me how much to give. If I am able to notice the exact time that she needs more water, she will be able to grow just that much more efficiently.



One question I had going into this SCRog was never answered completely until I tried to do it myself, that is: How do you best train the plant to fit on the screen? What I realized when I started doing the training was that this depends mostly on your lighting. Try to train your plants to the parts of your grow area that have the highest proton flux density. The screen is a guide, but you train to the light! In my floro setup it means training toward the center (where the bulbs are brighter) and no further than the edges of the lit area at a 4â?� height, in other setups it would depend on your particular reflectors and light characteristics as to what directions you nudge your plant to grow under the screen.



Already I find myself smiling each time I go into my flower tent. The smell in there is breathtaking! Give me a few more weeks and these excursions will be making me downright giddy. Toward the end of this grow, I know that even outside of the flowering tent, you would be able to see a persistent twinkle in my eye that simply wasnâ??t there before.


(this is almost half the growing space with only one plant!)
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/e...-600-x-325.png

Thank you dear reader, for making it all the way to the end of this rather long log entry. I hope you enjoyed reading it. I am learning a lot and I hope that a few of you reading this are learning along with me as I try to explain what it is I am thinking and learning. I will update again when I see that something significant has happenedâ?¦ until then, I will just watch and try to figure out what Hillary is telling me. She looks very happy. I do hope that you are also.


(Happiness is defined in Emmieâ??s â??Growers Definition Bookâ?� as that feeling you get when you see your first trichomes)
http://boards.cannabis.com/members/e...-600-x-416.png

Be well everybody,
Emmie

Waaay nice set up! I'm proud to say... You've come along way! Keep that up,girl... Tried to rep ya on this post.

I got my plants back.. Not gonna move.. Just gonna stick it out here till the end of summer.

Well, after all this time off I just had to post something somewhere...I missed this place and the people something like awful for the last couple weeks...Emmie, I am so proud of you girl! I'll say this much....if the world of economics is approached like this young lady approached this project, I think there may be some hope after all for this screwed up mess our gov't has made of everything. Ya got your work cut out for ya, young lady! Frosting? I think you're gonna see some real frosting before this lady is done! (This statement works on several levels!)

GG...Good to see your gonna stick around awhile longer!

Hi Emmie, et al,

I've been gone to NOLA for the Mardi Gras and just got back, so haven't been following the thread/log for a couple of weeks. Em, I am amazed at your pics, some real beauties there, flowering just lovely. I'm about 3-4 weeks behind you there, but mine seem to be doing well, too, despite the all LED. If anyone recalls, I was putting them into the sun shine about 5 hrs/day, but stopped that, bought another LED mounted perpendicular instead of hanging, and they are strong and dark and bushy now, if a little shorter than expected.

However, a question:
One of my girls, the tallest of the bunch, the early grower, who grew so fast while I was away that she pressed against the light. Now, the LED gives off virtually no heat, but there are top leaves that are living yet are curled and stunted and some grown leaves that are a bit..."wavy" at their base by the stem. There are also a couple of lower leaves that have rusty colored spots on them, maybe 3-4 spots per leaf, small but noticeable. What I'd like to know is,

1) What is causing the crinkled leaves in that one plant (others are almost equally as tall, one even pressing against the light in a similar way with no ill effects)

2) What is the reason for the rust spots - is it as I suspect related to the crinkled leaves?

Any help will be vastly appreciated, and Emmie, fantastic job on your grow. It's fun to see your plants and to try and tweak my system to emulate your plants maturation. Thanks for everything,

Trejedy

PS sorry for the lack of pics. I tried to figure out how to post them but ran out of time and have to go.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by trejedy

Hi Emmie, et al,

I've been gone to NOLA for the Mardi Gras and just got back, so haven't been following the thread/log for a couple of weeks. Em, I am amazed at your pics, some real beauties there, flowering just lovely. I'm about 3-4 weeks behind you there, but mine seem to be doing well, too, despite the all LED. If anyone recalls, I was putting them into the sun shine about 5 hrs/day, but stopped that, bought another LED mounted perpendicular instead of hanging, and they are strong and dark and bushy now, if a little shorter than expected.

However, a question:
One of my girls, the tallest of the bunch, the early grower, who grew so fast while I was away that she pressed against the light. Now, the LED gives off virtually no heat, but there are top leaves that are living yet are curled and stunted and some grown leaves that are a bit..."wavy" at their base by the stem. There are also a couple of lower leaves that have rusty colored spots on them, maybe 3-4 spots per leaf, small but noticeable. What I'd like to know is,

1) What is causing the crinkled leaves in that one plant (others are almost equally as tall, one even pressing against the light in a similar way with no ill effects)

2) What is the reason for the rust spots - is it as I suspect related to the crinkled leaves?

Any help will be vastly appreciated, and Emmie, fantastic job on your grow. It's fun to see your plants and to try and tweak my system to emulate your plants maturation. Thanks for everything,

Trejedy

PS sorry for the lack of pics. I tried to figure out how to post them but ran out of time and have to go.

---

Thanks for the complements Trejedy and as far as problems in your grow, I am not an expert. I am still working on figuring out my first grow myself. :) I strongly recommend that you ask those questions in a thread of your own, placed in the appropriate spot in the forum structure. In that way I think you can be assured of getting a fast and knowledgeable response to your questions. :)

Emmie

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by emilya

Thanks for the complements Trejedy and as far as problems in your grow, I am not an expert. I am still working on figuring out my first grow myself. :) I strongly recommend that you ask those questions in a thread of your own, placed in the appropriate spot in the forum structure. In that way I think you can be assured of getting a fast and knowledgeable response to your questions. :)

Emmie

---

Will do, Emmie.

Trejedy

Cripes thank god the forums back up again - I felt like I was missing a limb or something without it.
So glad you've posted a update Emmie and its all such good news. Youvé got one beautiful girlie monster there and she's one to be very proud of. Its going to be so exciting to see her finish up and count up how much she's given you.

This update is mainly just to talk about what I am seeing happen under the canopy... nothing has changed much up top in the last 4 days or so, just more of the what was already going on. The buds are filling out and getting larger and trichomes are starting to coat everything near the buds, all over the plant. It does make for some pretty pictures though. The next watering starts a new mix of nutrients with a very heavy phosphorous load to promote oil production. This new mix will be what she gets up until the last week of the grow.

The most interesting thing to watch is how Hillary is self managing under the canopy. The group of advocates that promote trimming to reduce chances of mold and to make her concentrate on the top growth, these people would be proud of Hillary. She has all by herself picked the very growth that it is recommended to take, the older and less efficient lower fan leaves. She has cut off one at a time per branch and then picked the next least efficient one to absorb when that leaf was done. You will see in the under the canopy shot that it looks pretty uncluttered there. The only active growth left is that which supports the bud structures growing under there now with the added side lights.

So, I keep adjusting the lights upward a bit every few days trying to tease the major buds to increase in size. I did adjust the daytime and night time temperatures down 1 degree yesterday too, in order to simulate the beginning of a change in seasons. Water use is remaining steady at the moment and I see no signs of stress. Here are some pictures!

Attachment 273145

Attachment 273144Attachment 273142
Attachment 273143

Here is a happy little bud under the canopy
Attachment 273141

Have a great day!
Emmie

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by emilya

lol... patience he says. Not my strongest quality for sure. After I know I am not killing my babies I will find more of it I am sure... but for now I worry.

Lets say I get back from my drive today with new 1 gal and 2 gal pottery containers and some fox farms soil and I wanted to transplant these complaining little dears out of the miracle grow. They are in these stupid 8" clay pots now. What would be the best way to extract them? Just do the upside down shake and see what falls away from a root structure that surely isn't nearly as large as this container? Use some kind of large spoon and try to scoop them out from the edges? How much of this miracle grow should I try to bring with them, as little as possible? At 3 weeks and still no more than slightly stressed plantlings, is it too early to put them through the stress of a move, or is the risk worth it to get them in a better soil?

Impatient Emmie

---

Not to go there,Em.... But I think that is a vertue of a man.. I would'nt expect you to have any... I still love ya!

Been peepin' ya thread out... You love this.. Don't cha?

A thin and flat cake frosting spreader works ok, but use care...the finer roots tend to adhere themselves to the pot if the pores are large enough. Flip it over and give a good, sharp whack on the bottom to dislodge whatever roots are still stuck in the bottom. But try and keep the rootball as intact as possible, and have your new pot ready for the plant.

Looking pretty good. :thumbsup:

Go Hilary :dance:
She looks a happy camper Emmie

Lookin good Emmie.

You got a good cut, my girl is giving me fits with over feeding :(

I am going to post this update tonight even though I cannot â??seeâ?� a lot of progress in the last few days. Here at the 3 to 5 week period seems to be a bit of a lull in the fast paced changes we have been able to chronicle every few days throughout most of this grow. To be fair to the purpose of this grow log (to help others learn along with me) I need to comment on this â??lackâ?� of visible changes. I would never want a lull like this to worry someone else as it might have worried me, before I learned to be more patient. ;)


There are indeed subtle changes to the flowers and to the entire plant. The buds are growing. In 3 days I can see growth at the top especially, the flowers are filling out and I can now see the process that will be making them taller. Note how all the leaves in the bud structure are looking up to the light and how the bud is building on itself from the top. Check out these two pictures to see what I mean. This by the way is the top flower from one of the 4th internodes.



Bud 25 days ..................................... Bud 32 days

Attachment 273285 Attachment 273283


In today's shot you can see the top of the canopy. This is a happy plant. The entire top of the canopy is a sea of eagerly reaching leaves, soaking in all the light they can capture. These upwardly thrusting bud structures would logically contain the most efficient leaves on the entire plant, processing the light at least distance, and then being right on the flower they are supplying with nutrients. In addition to this optimization at the top, some very interesting things keep happening below the canopy.




Discarded Leaves pile
Attachment 273281


I see a lot of questions on the forum from first time growers about the lower fan leaves yellowing during flowering. People seem to freak out as soon as they see this process start to happen, and I want to stress how natural and necessary this process seems to be. That pile of leaves is what has fallen from her in the 32 days of flowering. Wellâ?¦ almost fallen off. I believe strongly in causing no stress if I can avoid it, believing that the plant knows much better than I as to what to do; so I do not clip the bad leaves. I wait for them to be absorbed and become brittleâ?¦ and most of the time at this point they will separate cleanly at the base of the stem with just a bit of movement. Some will argue that it is best to clip them as soon as they start to yellow and be done with it, but I believe that the plant is efficient and will absorb what she wants from this leaf before releasing it. I donâ??t know which method is correctâ?¦ but I bet that each method turns out with approximately the same results. The maximum that I do is to move a dying leaf into the open if possible so that it can do its thing without blocking the light to other flowers. By doing this I feel that I am also fighting possible mold problems by moving the leaf to where it can dry out in the fan breeze.




under canopy left ............................ under canopy right
Attachment 273282 Attachment 273280


Hillary obviously has a master plan. She started out at the very bottom and cleared out the old fan leaves. It looked so obviously to be intentional when exactly one leaf in each of the 4 lowest branches yellowed and died off. When these 4 were finished, she did it againâ?¦ 4 leaves, from the next lowest growth. Now you can see by the pictures that she has cleaned out the under the canopy pretty well and has â??naturallyâ?� made under the canopy an efficient place for the remaining flower structures to get all the available light that they can. She is now working on cleaning up the underside of the screen itself. She has picked out fan leaves that are inefficient, i.e. those that are covered up by structures at the top or those that are blocking the light to other flowers. Her picks as to which leaves to remove is logical and seems to have a definite purposeâ?¦ to move efficiency up the stem to the very top of the canopy.


If I saw any other signs of leaf problems I would worry about all this, but I donâ??t. Every other leaf on the plant looks healthy and the closer they are to a flower, the thicker and deeper green they become. It is a wonderful thing watching natures plan perfected in a weed and its amazingly efficient processes. Sort of humbles you if you think about it. :smokin:


Emmie

Looking good kiddo. Yes vertical growth will slow and stop. Bulk should begin to occur. The buds should start putting on bulk now from what I see. What good are those bottom leaves, they don't get enough light to make any real difference so they become a burden and the plant sloughs them, just like our skin does with old cells.

Also, keep an eye on the very bottom buds, if you don't trim them off, for nanners. The light reduction seems to cause a nanner now and then in my widow down very low. Food for thought.

I'm glad you made this post Emmie - making note of the vertical growth lull is a worthwhile addition to your log. I would have been having worries also at this same stage if I'd not already read about it earlier.
Now we can start seeing all Hilary's buds start to thicken and fill out :thumbsup:

WOW!

Wonderful looking girl! I have been a way a few weeks at another site. I also have no patience and when I was unable to post or use this forum for several days I lost what little I do possess and went and joined RIU.com. But I missed this forum, it seems to have much better information and certainly friendlier folks!

Anyway, I am glad I returned before you finished her, she is very impressive indeed!:greenthumb:
A friend of mine just harvested a WW after 52 flowering days under 400w HID, I don't think he got near what you already have.

Happy to be back!

P.S. Not to try to jack your post emmie (I don't think I could drag your loyal readers away even if I did want to), but I wanted to thank you amongst others for inspiring me to commit to this hobby. I have finally posted my first grow log if you would care to check it out. Peace!

I finally found your grow thread, Emmie...congrats on getting ready for your first harvest! :)