All doing well...even the soil one (actually....that's soil #4)
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All doing well...even the soil one (actually....that's soil #4)
im voting for 25% more perlite if u go to 'dirt#5':)
or maybe on transplant.
I've had issues with perlite.....BAD ISSUES. I asked my hydro guy if I needed perlite for this soil and he said no so I'm not doing it. He said you CAN use it but with this particular soil (Fox Farm Ocean Forest) I don't need to have it. I may try some on my NEXT :eek: soil grow though because it does seem to require less watering than I am used to in my many years of soil experience. :D
So this power plant had been starting to take a dive and I've been doing things to try and fix the problem but I am starting to come to the conclusion that the plant is rootbound. (see photo)
At first I thought the issue was too much nitrogen so I dropped my CalMag level from 400ppm to 200ppm about one week ago. Since then the problem has gotten worse so nitrogen OD is out. Right now my numbers are standing at about 1200ppm and dropping back the numbers to about 1000 did not improve the issue either. My ph is between 5.5-6.2 religously so that's not the problem either.
This morning Mr Hound and I pulled up the bucket and guess what? About six times the amount of roots normally in my buckets.....what the hell is that about? I'm thinking I've found the problem but want everyone's elses thoughts ......PLEASE.....because I don't really know what to do with this plant. I vegged this plant for five weeks before turning.....was that too long? Thoughts people? :confused:
My (simple) plan so far is to cut the nutes in half and water this thing by hand in a seperate bucket with 1/2 strength nutes and try to limp it through but I'd LOVE any other ideas. I'd hate to lose this plant but it seems to have gotten worse in a hurry and I'm just not sure what to do. (Keep in mind this plant has SEVERAL WEEKS to go until finish.) :eek:
As you can see the Dutch Dragon is unaffected (last photo) .....and actually the pruning I did on it for clone cuttings seem to have made it alot happier as well. I shall have to reconsider my rule of not pruning plants in the future (depending on situation of course) :cool:
WH do you think its a good idea to cut off lower branches closest to where the stem hits the dirt. i mean my plant its growing really scronny leaves and branches on the lower part of it. should i chop them to improve on the higher branches? :rastasmoke:
hey WH....havent been on in a bit...laptop took a shit...i didnt use any perlite in my ocean forrest...water still runs through pretty fast..very airy stuff.......
:smokebong:
whiskeytango
and i think you did veg too long...IMHO...PP is one of those strains like jack herer, that you usually put into flowering at 12in...3-4 weeks, or as soon as the clones root.....IMO
Thanks for the input Stealth......do you think that is what is causing this situation....rootbound?
i do actually...been trying to think what i would do though.....hmmmm
gonna smoke another...brb with an idea
:smokebong:
whiskeytango
WH, If everything else is correct as you say it is, my vote is for root bound. That's a lot of damn roots. Why don't you just put it in a 5 gallon bucket instead of 3 for the remainder? I disagree about a certain time to put plants into flower mode. It can be anytime. You could veg for several years if your container was big enough. What bad issues have you had with perlite? I didn't know it could cause any issue other than the need to water more often.
Opie...Thanks....we all seem to be coming to the same conclusion here. I think the key phrase is.....if your container is big enough and it sure looks like mine isnt.
One possible scenario I'd like ideas for....just in thinking stages......would it be possible to transplant this plant into a five gallon container of soil?
I believe it would. In fact I know it would be possible. Not sure how probable though. I do root my cuttings for dirt in my cloner, then plant them in dirt sometimes. They look just like yours, only smaller. It works great, never had one die or even look close. You just gently fill dry dirt around the roots then soak the soil until it runs through well, and don't water again until it's dry. A bit of anti-shock in the water might be good too. The only problem I see with doing that with so many roots is that it will likely create one flat layer of roots instead of a nice network branching everywhere. I don't see how you could get the roots to branch out, but perhaps you could divide them into 4 groups or something. I imagine that would be better than one big lump. Why don't you want to just put her in a bigger bucket? No space?
Perlite issue?
http://boards.cannabis.com/growing-i...n-so-long.html
Opie...the problem I had was the perlite CAUSING a drainage issue instead of assisting it. I had the problem in that thread.....so haven't used perlite since in all my years of soil growing since. Op...you need to understand that I don't have normal problems like normal people so I can't explain WHY I had the problem.....only that I did.
I'm wondering about soil instead of a larger container for this reason. I think this plant has about 4 weeks to go.....it's slowed down significantly in the last week. If a three gallon hydro container won't hold it for 4 weeks, why would 2 more gallons fix the problem? I'm wondering if I'm just going to have another rootbound plant in two more weeks and am PONTIFICATING if growing it in soil would be a better answer for the roots (and ME!!) Or perhaps start looking for an even LARGER dwc container than a five gallon (i have something around somewhere)
X-crispi mentioned an airstone in the bottom so I'm off to do that.....back later....thanks everyone. :)
for a better home for this plant :D and here is what they sniffed out. :wtf: A large container that holds 50 lbs of dry horse feed; cleaned, taped and a hole cut in the top. I would guess this container would hold about 15 gals of water but we only filled it halfway....maybe 8 gallons or so.
X-Crispi mentioned airstone so we glued a six one in the bottom for extra O2 to the roots and cut the ppms back to about 700 to give the plant some time to recover.
I also posted something in hydro so I'll go over there and post the photos in that thread as well.
Thoughts? I have to thank EVERYONE.....I can name part of an idea or suggestion from everybody that helped us put this together.
Hope it works!!
I would only do it if they were crowding each other out (as mine were) or were contstantly soggy from touching the dirt or whatever.....otherwise no. I really think they draw nutes from the older leaves and if you take those leaves away without a good reason the plant will just start taking things from the newer leaves to compensate. My stuff was very crowded together and causing misshaped leaves etc...so it really took a jump when I cleared some of the crowded stuff out but I've also WAY overpruned plants as well (with poor results) and that's what made me afraid to prune things in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hennessy1414
:eek::eek: OMG WeedHound....:lol5: this is so cool, i love it....that PP gonna shoot strait through the roof, now that it has it's own Jacuzzi....really nice....:thumbsup:
I was thinking...now that you started to do soil grows again, how bout an outdoor grow??....i am sure that you would get lot's of help from the nice ppl. around here...
OMG. It didn't dawn on me that your plant might need more oxygen because I never dreamed in my wildest dreams that anyone would put roots in a non circulating container without an air stone. Shame on you. That alone could be the problem. Good luck. I'll bet she'll do fine now.
Opie the drip system DOES pump 02 into the roots....it's not made to be used with an airstone as it is NOT a DWC system....it's a DRIP system. However....this sytem is also recirculating as the contents are pumped out and recirculated through the res four times a day due to some modifications I made to it on my last grow. :thumbsup:
I DO think the issue is rootbound/suffocation and the last inch of nute solution that won't pump out.....hopefully we have solved this problem.
PS....I'm also doing a 24 hour flush for good voodoo. ;)
Weedhound,
That Baby is huge I have never seen a root system that big. I was going to sugest a rubbermaid tub but you already solved that issue. I hope she comes back for you.
BOL JG.
Thanks Jerry. I'll open the curtains soon from the 12/12 and see if she's improved at all (or croaked overnite....:eek:)
i think your golden WH....the bigger container should do it...thats a HELLA root ball, lol....good luck, Im sure she will be fine;)
:smokebong:
whiskeytango
Good solution to the problem. You might wanna throw up couple extra airstones in there since the root ball is so large...
So I've always done my seedlings in the same place with no problems. TODAY I get up and went to water my soil baby and here is what I found.
After a thorough investigation and intense interrogation we were able to identify a perppetrator. :wtf:
Well I liked MVP's thought about extra airstones (mostly because the system would no longer be recirculating) so I threw in another (10 inch) one. I now have 3 seperate airlines bringing 02 into the water so I don't want to hear one single peep from this plant about not enough O2. :wtf:
Interestingly flushing the plant didn't get back much which I suppose is a testament to better drainage at least. I only got about 60ppms back which is nothing compared to the 300+ I used to regularly get with my flushes. That may be why I suddenly have plants with huge rootballs I suppose. We checked the Dutch Dragon and surprisingly it is NOT far behind in the root dept so we are making up another bucket in the next few days and will transfer that one as well. We figure we will simply reuse the buckets for the next set as well since the smaller w/f bucket fits nicely and this may well solve any future problems (hopefully!)
Anyone see a difference from yesterday? Good? Bad? None?
OMG :S2: :jawdropper:Quote:
Originally Posted by Weedhound
I know.....I should have known better but they NEVER touch my hydro seedlings......now I wonder if that's because those are surrounded by water......:wtf:
AND I have clones under the cfls so I can't plant a new one right now....:(
damn, kitty stew?
lol......
:smokebong:
whiskeytango
Nice grow log weedhound :)
Is there any chance of getting some close up shots of your flowers?
And now is looking as though she may not make it. The interesting thing is,......I have absolutely no clue why.
At this point I am going to stick her back on straight RO water....since she seemed to improve on that....and see what happens.
Thoughts ANYONE?
Good thinkin Sis .
Looks almost like a bigger version of what Brooke did w/ the big black dogfood containers . I'd drill a 1/2 in. hole in each corner of the lid so if the cell is rootbound and overflows you won't trash the spare room . Even if the cell is rootbound , atleast this route you can still try and finish the plant as a DWC .
I got my capsules and machine today B.T.W . Need to go to the freaky deaky healthfood store and get some coco oil now . :thumbsup:
G/B
Crispi :jointsmile:
Ok.....she's definitely worse today....significantly worse. I was very pleased with how she had seemed to bounce back in her new bucket and did a system flush which returned about 60ppm so at noon yesterday we put in six gallons of RO water at 850 ppms/ph 5.6. At six pm that evening the ppms (in six gallons of water were down to 650....ph 6.86...adjusted to 5.7. The pics are what we woke up to this morning. Ppms..660.....ph 6.0.
I am completely lost. There is no abnormal smell or look to either the water or the roots.
I called and spoke to my hydro guy and here is what he recommended I do. Spray plant thoroughly with Serenade. Place on nute solution of CalMag 300ppm/Pro Bloom 300ppm. Watch plant carefully and call him tomorrow with report.
I have done this....and sprayed all plants in the same room with Serenade as well. I've turned off the 1kw hps and will leave them on room light today....and perhaps even part of tomorrow (thanks to my last experience with Serenade.)
Thoughts anyone?
When I see tops like that, with the downward droop/cupping, I think a couple things:
-Roots are feeling a bit crowded. That's a large plant! But, since I've seen you and crispi grow monsters, and recently witnessed Treetops' coffee can dwc.... that's unlikely.
-Strain. Not sure if this is your first time running this strain, but some will just naturally do that during flower. Not many, but it is listed as a strain trait on some strain writeups that I've seen on other grow forums.
If you have a couple shop lights or other flouros, I'd definitely hang them. While you don't want to subject a stressed plant (if it is indeed sick) to intense HID light, it does need SOME light to keep its metabolism going while it heals.
Another thing to look into would be a foliar with a silica supplement such as Silica Blast. Again, IF that is a fungal/bacterial issue, the added Si will let the plant grow stronger cell walls that are more resistant to disease.
I see you have a space heater in there; I usually tell people to put it up on something so that it is not pointing directly at any plants.
When you prepped the bucket, did you clean it, and with what? How well did you rinse it? What had been in the bucket previously?
Stinkster glad to see you. :) No she just went into a much larger bucket so the roots have plenty of room....or so I thought.....
This is a power plant. 5wks veg/5 weeks flower. Yes...first time I have grown it.
In RE-speaking to my hydro man we are coming to the conclusion of the third.....possibly pythium wilt....disease as you mentioned.
The bucket is one that I've been using to tote water for my hydro applications for awhile....hasn't been near horses in about a year and thoroughly cleaned w/bleach water before using yeserday. The thing....the plant was showing problems BEFORE we put it into this bucket. That's why we moved in the first place.
I have added 12 mls H202 35% to six gallons of RO water w/600 ppms and he is also having me take ANOTHER five gallons of RO water and put in 60mls H202 35% and let it sit for 24 hours. Then take said water.....add nutes (600ppm) and place plants in that solution.
Stinkster I could not say this to my hydro guy over the phone....power plant but I'd love your input since you've grown it. Is it possible this plant has just grown too fast for the container? It really did not improve with more room.......but what about inside the smaller bucket? I mean its not like this plant is a fussy one as a rule right?
My hydro guy is concerned that it seems to be going down quite fast.....too fast for a rootbound situation. Thoughts?
I'm not sure if I see correctly- is the old bucket inside the new bucket or is that just the top section?
Can you get clear closeups of a couple of the worst-affected tops? Do you notice any darkening or softening of the main stem or is it just the petioles so far?
I don't recall seeing PPP do that curly thing. Hm.
Rootbound plants can go downhill real fast when they hit that wall where you have too high a plant mass : root mass ratio- chemistry becomes hard to control- but I can't be any more specific than that as DWC is pretty alien to me still, lol... I'm watching and learning... :D
A couple things I forgot to mention.....
We are pulling the little room heater but that is the second spot I've had the plant in (it was in the back) so I'm sure that its not blowing on the plant......However
because you just mentioned that it got me to thinking....... The weather is better so the grow section has been getting warmer at night than during the day.....again thinking.......reading up on pythium wilt it can affect roots ability to uptake water during certain periods of time.....such as when the plant has higher water needs......which may have been the situation in my little room and why the plant looks worse first thing inthe morning. Does any of this make sense?
PS....I'll figure out something with the lighting.....not sure what yet. How much wattage are you thinking?
Its just the top section inside larger bucket.
Stinky....I swear...these leaves act like they are SUFFOCATING. Like the time I put too much Serenade on and then the hot lights? They ARE soft and wilting and yes, somewhat on the main stem.
PS...the plant seems to have improved again.....this is so bizarre.
Quick Trading Company
Here's where I got the info on pythium wilt. Its under the "Leaves Wilt During the Day" question.
At least the equivalent of a couple 4' shop lights over the plants in the room. The point is to give ample light to continue normal metabolic processes, but not enough to cause rapid water loss.
Do you have some type of anti-transpirant available? A LIGHT mist with either neem oil or SMC leaf wash will do 2 things:
-prevent water loss
-prevent fungus taking hold worse than it might already be
Both neem and coriander oil protect against mold spores. DON'T over do it!!! LESS IS MORE!!! Now if that plant were actually suffocating, you would also see the leaves DARKENING when it got bad... do you see any evidence of that on the curled leaves?
Another thing -and this is a TOTAL stab in the dark but food for thought- think of the res temp and the room temp as they compare to each other. Is your res temp fluctuating with the weather change? I don't know how this would affect things but it might be a useful bit of info.
Rhiiiiiiii-zome! Rhizome! Where ya at hydro-whisperer?
Yes they ARE darkening...I was thinking nitrogen OD but there's almost 0 nitrogen in there anyway. But if the roots were squishing inside the top bucket....why would the plant improve and then get worse again?
Shop light? English?
I stuck this in the other thread but wanted to post it here too...
I just noticed you JUST transplanted... 2 days ago~
I think that day/night wilt thing may be nothing more than transplant shock, and teh original problem was that it hadn't enough root space. This is one situation in which I would actually use SuperThrive in flower. NOT at the recommended dose though; I'd go even weaker and do a drop per 2 gallons instead of a drop per gallon.
It will take more than a couple days to pull out of this. Think when people take clones, for the first couple days they are often sad and wilty- don't fuss with it too much; those roots no doubt got pretty jostled and the tiny hairs damaged removing the previous 3 gallon pail from them .
Shop light= standard el cheapo tube flourescent fixture that many of us have kickin' around the cellar somewhere.
Darkening? How's your air exchange? Big vigorous plants need big amounts of CO2... gotta keep up with the air movement. But since the darkening from suffocation and the darkening from a N overdose is similar, maybe the superthrive isn't such a good idea after all... JUST IN CASE ;)
Stinky I honestly AM thinking suffocation here...The part of the leaves that are still soft and curled (the plant is now looking better at an amazing rate) and dark DARK green...the rest of the leaf if lighter green.....you can almost see where its getting 02 and not....looks like an artery vs a vein or something....i'll get some photos...not sure how much it will show.