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Im still sort of scratching my head as to why these plants are growing so much slower than my last batch of the same seeds. I cant quite put my thumb on what has been altered from my last grow, or what could be causing this dilema:wtf:
This morning the babies ate:
15 ml BigBloom
6 ml GrowBig
5 ml Liquid Karma
pic 1 - the whole batch
pic 2 - the plant w/ the strange leaves. You can see this plant has seemed to focus growth on side branches.
pic 3 - The largest 2
pic 4 - some others
I have notices on the plant w/ wierd growth that the main growtip has also seemed to bend itself sideways and there it sits, its like it just bent over and died right there, kinda strange:stoned:
Thanks for the faith in stinky and I. It is appreciated.
Normally when just the tips get yellow or brown it is from nute burn, which could also be causing the weird growth. Can you tell me how many PPM total you are feeding them, excluding what's already in the soil? I get that on mine when I experiment with maximum PPM. A tiny bit is OK, but not if it stops the leaf from developing.
Opie, Im havent the slightest clue what my ppm is, i only bought a ph pen like 3 weeks ago.
Cwesto,
I have read the last page and 1/2 and have a coulple of questions.
Those are fairly large pots for seedlings, how often are you watering? Do you alternate nute formulated water and plane water?
From what I am reading you are loving your plants to a slow death. (Nutes to early, possiable overwatering, nutes to often.)
I would try to do a ph adjusted flush ( water adjusted to a ph of 6 ) Flush each pot with a qt. min of adjusted water. Then just let them sit for a week or untill the soil starts to dry out then use plane water again or mild nute solution.
i didnt mix the black gold with anything as per the instruction of the dudeman.
as per foliar feeding, i use the same stuff i water my plants with as soon as the lights go on, and about half way through "day" time.
quick ??
is is better to water when the lights go on, or when they go off......
Answer: Neither. It's an old wives tale, but most say you should water as soon as lights come on. Why? Nobody can tell me. They say you just should. You will never ever convince me until I see a side by side with at least 10 plants each.
Like Jerry and Opie have suggested, I'm pretty sure you're giving them too much to eat. If you have a ppm pen then you can tell me what I asked. Next time you mix up a batch of food stick your ppm first in your plain water, and then in the mixture. Let me know both numbers, and how often you are feeding. Oops, just reread, you said PH pen. Oh well, If you don't want to get something to measure PPM, then you need to be real careful when feeding, making sure you feed much less at first than you think you should. Slowly build up until you see the first signs of nute burn, which you already have. Jerry brings up watering and I don't know how you are doing there, but you should be watering only when the soil has almost completely dried out at the bottom of the pot. You can stick your finger down there or buy a $5 moisture meter. When I stick mine to the bottom and the needle nearly stays still, I know it's time. After doing that a few times, you'll just know about when to water based on the weight of the container and how much dirt has pulled away from the edges of the container.
If I remember correctly you said you mixed your dirt with some vast quantity of perlite. Perlite is good, and should be mixed into most soil IMO, but you usually want to put in about 20 or 30%. More is OK, but you'll need to check for watering more often.
PS, You have the honer of my only hit-free post of the day, so I'm hoping it made some sense. Time to fire up.
Opster, I used 3:2 ratio for perlite, which is 33.333%, so i think im good.
As for nute burn, i dont think i haven any signs of that, if u saw some please point them out. But i didnt see any stressed leaves (except the "special" plant) or burning tips, is thhere any other sign???
Also back to the nutes, i havent even used my stuff at full strength yet, actuakky i havent used any of my nutes more than half strength yet, so I personally dont think i am burning anything here.
Watering: Usually once every 3 days, when I am confident that the pot is light enough...
And yea i cant buy a ppm pen or a moisture meter, because i only have 55$ to me name as of current. :(
Yea they are 2 gallon pots, but ive seen beauties grow from seed in 5 gal'sQuote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Garcia 2007
I only water once every 3 days.
Ur thiking a flush w/ 1 qt. ph'd water.. U thik i really need to go there??
Cwesto,
Yes I would do a flush to basically start from a clean slate nute wise, plus this will flush out any salts.
When I water, I alternate nuted water and plane water as stated on the FF feeding chart. I use 5 gallon buckets and use 1 gallon per bucket and let excess drain out bottom using water or nuted water every 5 days or more, depending on stage of growth. Since you are using 2 gallon buckets use around 48 oz. per plant. This may have been your problem in your first grow.
BOL.
thats 40% ............Quote:
Originally Posted by cwesto
3 parts dirt and 2 parts perlite.....
Gotchya. well i guess im a lil off on the ratio. The last couple of days i think they have been doing better. I think im going to push back there next watering 1-2 days and see if that helps. I dont want to have to flush if i dont have too. If that doesnt help more i will probably flush
That's fine increaseing time between waterings. But I do highly recommend going to a watering routine similar to what I do. I was having similar issues as you were in your first grow and adopting this plan solved all my problems and am producing great quality buds. Check my results at 2nd grow from cloans and thcb seeds.
not for nothin, but i water my lil bitches EVERY day.
and i go back and forth with nutes one day and this soil ecolizer the next. the soil is dry when the lights go on and i water, then leave them till the next day when lights go on. sometimes if the soil in say one or 2 looks rather moist still, i let them go another day, but i always make sure i dont break the cycle of feed, and ecolize.
as per stress, ive had much success with FIM'ing, LST'ing, and repotting all in one day, and the plants never so much as skipped a beat. the only thing i noticed is that the side growth drastically improved, but i think thats becuase they not growing up from the FIM.
c.cat
Jer,I looked through ur log, ur plants are tight:thumbsup: but I didnt see any watering routine, I may have missed it, but can u give me a quick breakdown of it??Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Garcia 2007
Cwesto,
First off I follow the FF feeding chart to the Tee. Only alterations are 1 tsp. ph down per gallon due to my tap ph is 7 and after adding nutes it jumps to 7.5 to hot for MJ plants. The ph down brings it to a ph of 6.5 perfect for MJ plants. Then in flowering I add 1 Tbls. of mollasses and again adjust ph to 6.5 usually 1.5 tsp. of ph down. I also adjust my plane water to a ph of 6.5 for stability of the soil ph.
When I water I do it in the bathtub as you can see in my pics. The reason I do this is when I water I use an entire gallon of water or nute mix per plant and let any excess drain out the bottom. This ensures nutes are getting to the entire root system, then the plane water watering washes away any salts and excess nutes from the previous watering.
Time between waterings varies depending on pot size and plant size. I go by bucket weight in the earl stages of growth then in flowering I can tell by the fan leaves when watering is needed. I do this by looking at the fan leaves at the very top of the cola, when the plant is happy and well watered these leaves are at like a 75 deg angle from horizontal or appear like reaching for the light. When watering is needed these leaves will start to go to the horizontal position. I learned this from experience and using a moisture pen untill I put 2 and 2 together and no longer needed the pen. I recommend you do the same untill you get the feel of it.
You can use any alterations to the nutes you wish but the key points are maintain a constant watering ph of 6.5 and alternate between plane water and nute mix for watering.
Jerry, I dont think the FF soil chart says to add nutes every other watering.... does it say this on the paper chart or the bottle??
Cwesto,
I looked at mine and it states in the lower left corner 2nd bullet point " For best results feed with every other watering" Also on the right is a big red bar that states the samething.
Here is a pic of my chart.
Notice in the upper right corner it says that these programs are starting points...
Some plants can't handle over 500 ppm, and others want 1500.
Oops, I see that I grabbed the wrong chart. The soil one is on my laptop I guess. Anyway, this is the chart I basically go by for my soil girls too.
Yea I am going to alternate now for sure, hopefully my predicament gets better. Jerry, do u see how it also says "feed with every other watering" above the granual parrt of the chart?? I thought that meant only w/ the granuals b/c it was right above them, but know i understand it means for all the nutes, liquid and granual. Ur a lifesaver dude. Also i should have some new pics either tomorow or the day after depepnding on which day i decide to water.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Garcia 2007
Opie, do u have any good ideas on where i may look for a economy priced ppm meter??Quote:
Originally Posted by Opie Yutts
Well there's always eBay or Nextag I think it is, where they find a product then compare prices from different retailers (also shopping.com?). Other than that you would just have to call around or browse the web for different grow stores. I think I got a fairly cheap one at American Agriculture. If you could find their web site...? I think it was <$60. They usually have "lower priced" stuff than most competition. I would steer clear of the low end Hannas. I think mine is Control Wizard.
I water'd the plants today w/ just a drop of superthive to a gallon of rested tap at 6am when th elights came on. Here are pics from tonight about 10 minutes befor the lights go out
Next time I water them will probably be close to full strength
That is one weird looking plant.
Hey Cwesto...the plants look good...they seem to have recovered...:thumbsup:
I know it is pretty strange, the main shoot has seemed to burn out, all new growth is now on side shootsQuote:
Originally Posted by b0n3ZA
Yea I think so also. I think it has to do with me starting to alternate feeding days with water only days. It even said to do it on the damn nute schedule, but i guess i just didnt see it.Quote:
Originally Posted by zebulon
Thatd be pretty bad if all my F'd up grows went the way they did b/c the grower didt read the instructions properly LOL
I attempted some foliar feeding tonight. I mixed 3ml Growbig and 3ml Liquid Karma to a gallon and used that to do the spraying. I plan on eventually getting a nice pump sprayer. I also wanted to get my hands on some of that liquid light by dutchmaster until i saw the price tag and was suddenly turned off by the idea, but i hear that stuff works wonders.
To combat my recent problem of overwatering I decided this morning to cut some more holes into my planters. I made sure to be very careful and think i only cut a few roots. Im hoping that this makes my soil dry out faster while at the same time getting more o2 to the root system.
I cut the holes at 6am when the lights came on and now at 6pm every one of the plants are looking refreshingly perky.:thumbsup:
ZZZZZZAAANNNGGGGG bitches:D
Decided to try and LST some of the bigger ones today. So here are some pics. Also the y got fed today
30 ml BigBloom
10 ml GrowBig
10 ml Liquid Karma to a gallon
Looks good except for that bit o' yellowing on the bottom leaves. Probably a good time for food.
Good luck. I think I prefer topping to LST though.
Yea I just always been scared to cut the tops off my plants so i just LST.. why Opie do u prefer topping? is the yield difference that much bigger? And when do u start topping?
After my last grow giving LST a try, I realize that it's easier to control the quantity and size of the buds by topping. I got 5 million buds by doing LST, and they were small and time consuming. If I top, I can control the number exactly. Now that I'm thinking about it, I guess you could too by LST if you cut some bud sites off, but that kinda defeats the purpose of LST.
I think the yield is roughly the same, you just won't get the big colas with LST. The more you have, the smaller they are.
You can start topping whenever you feel the plant can handle it. I usually wait until they have 5 or 6 good nodes, or after 2 or 3 weeks form the cloner, or 3 or 4 weeks from seed. Depending on the variety, you can pretty much count on getting two shoots from the one you cut off. For AK-47 this does not seem to slow the plants' growth one bit. It almost seems like they enjoy it.
Opie, I fed them with 2 tsp. growbig yesterday, then went out of town for St. Patricks day, anyways it looks like the yellowing is getting worse on some of the plants.. what should i do??
Also i think i have pests too, but i dont see any. Some of the leaves look like they have been nibbled on.
I may try topping next time, since u say u like it alot more. When I LST I try not to let the plants go too crazy, try for about 6-10 new shoots going, some only grow 3-4 new ones others grow more like 10-13. When i LST tho I dont bend down the new shoot to make even more new ones. What i do is bend over the whole plant when it has about 5-6 nodes, keeping the main tip down low, then when the new shoots start from the higher nodes I just try to keep everything even. I have seen people with like 30 tops per plant, thats way to much maintenance for me.
But on more time sensative issues, what do u think about my N def. problem?? I wanna get this figured out b/c I want to force flowering in something around 1-2 weeks from now.:thumbsup:
Hey Cwesto....any update?? How are the plants??
Zeb, for sure, i have been lackin a wee bit on that aspect. I have been swamped with exams for business school, it always seems like all my classes schedule exams for the same week. U know how it goes.
Anyways the plants have been good, they recently recovered from a N deficieny and are sleeping soundly as we speak, i just tucked them in. There is 1 plant that has shown female pre-flowers and 1 that has shown male pre-flowers, the other five have yet to show.... Ummmmmmm all of my 4 LST'd plants are really starting to explode with new grow spots and the 2 that have had no training are doing well. If u have seen the slow grower out of my bunch, he is still going pretty slow but i still love him. The plant that had stopped growing from its main tip 9(orange crush) has recently erupted and now has i think 5 tips, its by far one of my favorite plants, dont tell the brothers and sisters.
But a buddy just cam over and we're gonna get :stoned:, so ill ttyl. And ill try and get some new pics up tomorow after my exam.:thumbsup:
Here are some new pics, sorry it took a while to anybody watching, Ive recently been swamped at business school and havent had the time to give my garden the attention it deserves... BUT tomoro is my last exam for a couple of weeks so i should be able to spend some quality time with my garden and all of u out there in cannabis land:) Ummmmmm.. I recently changed my feeding schedule from nutes every watering to nutes 2 out of 3 watering, the third being simply H2o. It seems to have helped alot, I think it is the perfect schedule, at least it is for me.
Lately the feeding have been looking like this:
30 ml BigBloom
10 ml GrowBig
5 ml Liquid Karma
What else is new in the Gardeeeny, you ask??? Well settle down now and stop foaming at the mouth so I can tell you, LOL. I plan on forcing bloom pretty soon here, as soon as the new branches from the rest of the plants get as big as the orange crush plant we will be good for launch. Another of the plants has shown what i believe to be a fem pre-flower, not sure tho it is like JUST starting to form. Also, on more a bummer of a note, I ordered some PPP and some sensi star about a month ago..... I believe they were unfortunately intercepted by "Big Brother." I caled the boutique to see where my shipment was and they said that it was sent out about 3 weeks ago:(, dont think im gonna be seing those seeds. I know bologna, right...
Heres the pictures from today:
Pic 1 - The whole bunch.
Pic 2 - Side view.
Pic 3 - The Orange Crush plant. This is the one that stoped growing from the main tip and exploded on the sides. One of me fav's:thumbsup:
Pic 4 - This is one of my ind/sat mixes. This one is getting kinda tall (compared to it companions) and im not too sure what im gonna do about it yet...... As I gaize into my magic 8-ball I predict a pair of cissors chopping its head off in the near future. 2 times for yo motha fukin minds.
Pic 5 - This plant is an unknown strain, got the seed from a bag a chron-didly-don. Only seed in the bag, this seed was. Big hopes for this lil' one, extremely GOOD looking growth and healthy looking plant.
Very nice, man. I grow in dirt and I feed every third watering in Veg and I feed, water, water + molasses when they're in bloom.
So, you're in bloom already? (I see the bloom nutes)
Shov
Looks like they're recovering nicely. Yeah, you either need to feed in small quantities each time you water, or larger quantities about every other or 3rd time you water, with plain ol water only the other times. Otherwise you get salts build up and lockouts. It takes a bit of experimenting to find out what works best for your particular situation.
The foxfarm feeding schedule i got with the nutes, call for the bigbloom during veg., as it is all nat-urall.. I believe it helps keep roots healthy too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shovelhandle
Thanks Opie I think they are doing good now as well. They are really developing and i cant wait to throw them into flowering. Do you suggest I change something in my feeding schedule to avoid salt build up?? I was going about this schedule thinking that the straight h2o on every third feeding would act as a small flush, helping to avoid those problems... I dont know tho, please eniolighten if i am incorrect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Opie Yutts
A flush every third feeding should do the trick.