HAHAHAHAHAHA you are like Kelso's evil twin. Why don't YOU tell us all about Adam Smith? We just hates being so ignorant. Please do us some enlightening big guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bong30
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HAHAHAHAHAHA you are like Kelso's evil twin. Why don't YOU tell us all about Adam Smith? We just hates being so ignorant. Please do us some enlightening big guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bong30
I allready did, you must have forgot....
I know that you understand Adam Smith, but krogith Please.....
Lets talk about Adam Smith shall we :) Kitty is sharpening her nails...you may have bitten off a little more than you can chew...
What he did not see was, that his own system, was the product of a particular history; that what he regarded as the System of liberty, justice, and divine benevolence, would be moulded into a system of selfishness by the private interests and prejudices of particular orders of men Oh gee you missed that one huh...
Did you miss the part where Smith generalizes wealth entirely, says he was not interested in wealth, but from the phenomena of selfishness. He beleives men are naturally selfish he represents them as pursuing wealth for sordid objects, and for the personal pleasures.
Are all men really that shallow? I know quite a few that aren't..
My bet is that you have never even read "The Wealth Of Nations" you might want to give it a try and come back when you are less ignorant.
In it he speaks of the natural effort of every individual to better his own condition, and he had only the half of the nation in mind: He seems to have been perfectly content though it involves an inconsistency which is fatal to his whole theory with the existing restraints on the energies of women; and the only effort on the part of a woman to better her own condition which he has stated is "to become the mistress of a family."
Ok now whos you next imaginary hero...bring him on.
Blaming big corporations for society's problems is narrow minded and short sighted. While I have sympathy for the little guy and the mom-n-pop operations that have been put out of business, I have enough of an open mind to realize that, in the long run, this is not bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by medicinal
It is all about efficiency and economies of scale. Big corporations get that big, and can drive the little guy out of business, because they can. This may seem like an obvious statement but think about it. If what they were doing was so bad, they wouldn't succeed. In contrast, if what the little guy was doing was so good, they wouldn't be driven out of business.
Take the plight of the Mom-n-Pop bookstores for example. Companies like Amazon and Barnes have all but wiped them out. Sad, this is true, but why did it happen? Well, I can look back to when I used to go to the smaller independent bookstores myself. Maybe they'd have what I was looking for, many times not. What if I was looking for a certain subject but didn't know the book? Out of luck. With a company like Amazon I can search for a particular subject and have hundreds of choices, most in stock, and usually for a better price than at the local bookstore. Amazon and Barnes have succeeded where the little guys have failed because the former provides a service the latter can not.
To blame increasing prices on the big corporations is also incorrect. Increasing prices are driven by inflation and inflation is driven by more money being put into the economy. If these big corporations were so bad for the majority of Americans there would be less money in the economy and prices would fall. If the big corporations refused to lower their prices, their sales would drop and they, themselves, would go out of business. It's basic economic principle.
One big benefit of big corporations is that they drive innovation. Ever wonder how much $ is put into R&D for something like an iPOD, a Pentium, or even A Ford Taurus? Millions and Millions. Sure, HP might have been born in a little garage in Palo Alto, CA but it wasn't until they became a big corporation that they could actually start producing products that we use today. Beyond just R&D costs, what about production costs? The company I work for sells the equipment, that test the computer chips, that go into everything from the computer you're using now to toys in McD's happy meals. One of these test systems can cost a million+ $. Companies that make these chips will ften have 50 of these systems to keep up with demand. ow many Mom-N-Pop's do you know that could afford $50 million worth of test equipment. Let alone all the other equipment to get a chip from silicon to it's place on the motherboard.
From what I've seen, people who have problems with capitalism and big corporations are typically those for whom the system has not worked so well. But, is that the systems fault???? Take another look at the HP example, this company was literally born in someones garage. Isn't that the definition of the "little guy". So, is what people are saying that it's ok to be an unsuccessful "little guy" but wrong to succeed? Think about it.
From what I've seen, people who have problems with capitalism and big corporations are typically those for whom the system has not worked so well. But, is that the systems fault???? Take another look at the HP example, this company was literally born in someones garage. Isn't that the definition of the "little guy". So, is what people are saying that it's ok to be an unsuccessful "little guy" but wrong to succeed? Think about it.
There are more people that capitalism has fucked over than have benefited from it by a long way, In this country, it's not as bad, but in some third world countries it's pathetic. The business owners are slavemasters!
Fengzi,
We usually agree on issues but I am afraid this time I can't agree with you at all and I think you are projecting when you call medicinal narrow minded. I know this is long and you probably won't read it all but I will post it anyway and the burden of proof to the contrary lies with you.
When you make the statement: If what they were doing was so bad, they wouldn't succeed. You are really playing Pollyanna here.
Do you honestly think the people can do anything once corporations become huge lawless entities? Is Halliburton playing by the rules?Are we stopping them? Germany became HUGE and Hitler succeeded in killing millions of Jews with little of no protest from the rest of the world for quite some time. We are talking corporations that have become larger than entire countries!
Corporations WERE a good thing as was capitalism in the beginning but things have changed and there are many people that want to pretend this is not happening but they are wrong. It seems the people that are profiting the most are the ones that want to see the least. There are many small corporations that have cleaned up their act but they are few and the larger corporation do everything they can to destroy them.
This is not something that was born with the Bush Administration it has been happening for a long time but this administration has changed the rules in order to give certain corporate powers full reign I guess they forgot to take the net into consideration. It is getting harder for them to hide what they are doing. More people are becoming aware and that's why you are seeing this surge in socialism around the world. There is always a rise in socialism when the gap between the rich and poor gets too big. It happened during WWI and it is happening again.
We are not talking simple consumerism and free trade like you have in a free capitalist society we're talking totalitarian control. These corporations by claiming themselves individuals and protecting themselves by abusing the bill of rights are taking full advantage and abusing the people of the world including Americans.
Even Abraham Lincoln had the foresight to see this coming. I don't understand why you want to believe its not happening. You will have to show me proof that the top 10 corporate entities in the world are helping the world. I am willing to listen but I doubt you will find it any evidence. You can't quote small successes from iPod and others but overlook the top 10 corporate POWERS..
Lincoln said
"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. ... corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed."
â?? U.S. President Abraham Lincoln, Nov. 21, 1864 (letter to Col. William F. Elkins
Corporations in and of themselves were not always a bad thing. They started as engines of positive change. But, now they have become excessively large, and concentrated in terms of ownership of an industry and in wealth, Now they are engines for negative change, with the drive for profit at all cost contradicting the social good.
And what about corporate investment in wars not just Iraq all the wars happening now.
Of the 30 members of the Defense Policy Board, the government-appointed group that advises the Pentagon, at least nine have ties to companies that have won billions soon to be trillion in defense contracts. Four members are registered lobbyists, one of whom represents two of the three largest defense contractors.
This website has a few really good papers on the army and how the money for troop training has evaporated and is being funneled into private companies like Boeing,lockheed Martin,Northrop,Halliburton,Raytheon <--- these guys are really bad http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/after/2003/0328advisors.htm
There are now 40,000 corporations in the world whose activities cross national boundaries, these firms ply overseas markets through some 250,000 foreign affiliates. Yet, new calculations by the Institute for Policy Studies (IPS) indicate that the top 200 of these global firms account for an alarming and growing share of the world's economic activity. Two hundred giant corporations, most of them larger than many national economies, now control well over a quarter of the world's economic activity. Does that not bother you? Can you not see a problem here?
For example Philip Morris is larger than New Zealand, and it operates in 170 countries but instead of creating an integrated global village, it isolates from the community, endangers the environment and exploits it workers.
All these giant firms concentrate on the production, consumption, and finance that only bring economic benefits to, a third of the world's people. Two-thirds of the world (the bottom 20 percent of the rich countries and the bottom 80 percent of the poor countries) are either left out, marginalized, or hurt by corporate activity.
Really Fengzi I am surprised and disappointed that you don't see the crime here.
Soon there is not going to be any personally left in this world. The would is going to look JUST LIKE THE UNITED STATES it will be a series of strip malls and taco bells. I drove the entire length of this country 2 times in the last 4 years and I what I saw was really sad. Our country use to be a beautiful mix of cultures that changed from town to town that is gone. Every town looks exactly like the last Taco Bell, Mcdonalds, Wal-Mart,KFC, Wendy's they are all there replacing all hint personality and individuality.
If you have seen one small town in this country you have seen them all. It did not use to be this way. The only personally left is on the coasts and that is vanishing too
SOME FACTS
1. Of the 100 largest economies in the world, 51 are now global corporations; only 49 are countries.
2. The combined sales of the world's Top 200 corporations are far greater than a quarter of the world's economic activity.
3. The Top 200 corporations' combined sales are bigger than the combined economies of all countries minus the biggest 9; that is they surpass the combined economies of 182 countries.
4. The Top 200 have almost twice the economic clout of the poorest four-fifths of humanity.
5. The Top 200 have been net job destroyers in recent years. Their combined global employment is only 18.8 million, which is less than a third of one one-hundredth of one percent of the world's people.
6. Not only are the world's largest corporations cutting workers, their CEOs are benefiting financially from the job cuts.
7. Japanese corporations have surpassed U.S. corporations in the ranking of the Top 200
8. Over half of the sales of the Top 200 are in just 5 economic sectors; and corporate concentration in these sectors is high.
9. When General Motors trades with itself, is that free trade?: One-third of world trade is simply transactions among various units of the same corporation.
10. The Top 200 are creating a global economic apartheid, not a global village. The top eight telecommunications firms, for example, have been expanding global sales rapidly, yet over nine-tenths of humanity remains without phones.
Multinational...... is the name for those.
Enron went down..... why cant the rest?
Here is the other side BC wont see or admit to........
America's Most Philanthropic Companies
Company 2002 Cash Donations (as a % of 2001 income) Change from 2001 2002 Cash Giving ($mil) 2001 Operating Income ($mil)
Target (nyse: TGT - news - people ) 2.56% 2% $96 $3,759
MetLife (nyse: MET - news - people ) 2.51 67 30 1,177
Albertson's (nyse: ABS - news - people ) 2.42 -3 65 2,688
Best Buy (nyse: BBY - news - people ) 2.05 36 16 772
Ford Motor (nyse: F - news - people ) 1.76 69 113 6,432
Cisco Systems (nasdaq: CSCO - news - people ) 1.60 60 36 2,257
American Express (nyse: AXP - news - people ) 1.39 44 32 2,266
Du Pont (nyse: DD - news - people ) 1.33 59 32 2,408
Altria Group (nyse: MO - news - people ) 1.29 42 113 8,765
J.P. Morgan Chase (nyse: JPM - news - people ) 1.21 48 93 7,740
Source: Forbes, The Chronicle of Philanthropy
GO play somewhere else Bong...What is it that I am failing to see, that you can cut and paste a few stats but lack a real view of your own? You are not thinking as an individual you are regurgitating what you have been told. Take the green pill Bong.
Damn you were quoting Adams the other day and he was completely against Corporations and their powers! Make up your mind dude go actually read something. GO READ THE WEALTH OF NATIONS before you try and quote from it.
And in the future please actually READ my post and the links before commenting. Thanks
ill post what i like......you cant help that your a dumb socialist.....
what about the money they give away?
what about the taxes they Pay......?
why not just raise the taxes on the evil corps HUH BC?