Why religion doesn't exist

I guess it would depend on how you define ethics. If thinking in basic terms with ethics being that we decide what is good and what is bad we all have some form of ethic. We just look at diferent places to help us decide.

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Originally Posted by mrpink019

Morals and ethics technically don't exist. In true human nature these things(as well as feelings, but that is a totally different discussion) don't exist(would you say that a dog or monkey has ethics?). The only reason they are thought to exist today is because things like religion try to explain the reasons for human behaivor through itself. For instance, if a starving man was given the chance to either shoot a man or eat a pizza and he ate the pizza, a lot of people would say he ate it not only because he was starving, but also because he had good ethics. Ethics actually had nothing to do with it. He gained nothing from shooting the man, but by eating a sandwich he prolonged his death. Therefore he acted according to what seemed to be good for him.

Humans and the rest of the animal kingdom act according to instinct, and according to their needs. Not because of ethics. Even if some one kills an innocent person, it always boils down to the fact that they are doing what they think is best for them, even if their thinking is severely flawed.


I would add my two cents to this nice discussion that you have going on about government, but as of late I have been feeling apathy towards the government and have no stance on it.

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Dude... there's all sorts of systems for ethics without appeal to divinity. A whole bunch of reasons to be a good person whether or not you think god is waiting to spank you in the afterlife for all the bad things you did.
Is piety that which is loved by the gods or do the gods love it because it is piety, my friend euthyphro? that kinda stuff. Your example with pizza that turned into a sandwich is equally baffling. Are you speaking specifically of egoism? Either your understanding of ethics is not very lucid, or you're incredibly baked (I suspect the later, pizza usually stays pizza when I'm sober).

The pizza turned into a sandwich! LOL!!:thumbsup:

Oh, the pizza turning into a sandwich was my fault. I thought the pizza and the starving man over for twenty minutes or so before I typed it. I suppose some of the differen't versions of it got jumbled into one post.


Oops...

when i was a little boy...i use to talk to god.....and i said you mother fucker!....he said YOU mother fucker!.....you gotta grow up.....and kill rock and roll, yeah he said kill rock N roll and FUCK...all the sexy people....so i did.

system of a down anybody?

yeah religion is a load of baloney

to argue about this subject you really have to know what exactly religion is. religion is just how somebody practices what they believe in. it doesnt have to have anything to do with christianity or other organized religions. for me, i dont know what god is and i really dont need to know. all i'm trying to do in this life is to achieve true happiness and peace of mind while gathering as much knowledge and experience as possible. so pretty much with this definition of religion, it does exist. for all of the people trapped by organized religion, you need to stop believing what people tell you to believe and start believing only what your heart tells you to believe.

Im suprised nobody has mention that the key foundation of any religion which is faith. IF it were all explainable then there would be no reason for having faith in whatever it is you believe.

I for one do not belive in evolution, our bodies(especially our brains) are way too complex for it to all have happen by an evolutional/natural selection process. Our brain is the most complex piece of material that we know of in exsistence and we still really dont know much about it or what makes it tick. The truth is we really dont know anything about where we came from. I see evolution as a way of writing off the unexplainable which we do too much nowdays.For most people not knowing where we came from, who we came from is a scary/intimidating thought so we try and come up with ideas of how/when it all happened even though they might not make sense. Everyone needs to go through there own experiences and come up with their OWN ideas/thoughts to this subject and not base it on what other people say.

Either we arent supposed to know who/what created us or we cannot handle/understand it

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Originally Posted by TakeFlight

... our bodies(especially our brains) are way too complex for it to all have happen by an evolutional/natural selection process....I see evolution as a way of writing off the unexplainable which we do too much nowdays

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Youâ??re being extremely hypocritical here.

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Originally Posted by TakeFlight

The truth is we really dont know anything about where we came from.

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We know exactly where we came from and mostly how it happened. We are the product of fusion, time and force (as in gravitational, nuclear, and electromagnetic). This is all based on quantitative and observable evidence. The CMB, Doppler shifts, and globular clusters tell us "time" started about 13-14 billion years ago; simulations and elemental abundances tell us that all the heavier elements above He were produced by fusion in the insides of stars; the production of these heavier elements allowed later stars (that were created out of the stellar ash of the exploded old ones) to make planets; the origin of life is the only real fuzzy part, but experiments that simulated the early conditions on Earth shows that it doesnâ??t take much to create the basic organic compounds for life, (which I might add are fairly common in the Universe).

Where do you see a flaw? Where do you see an assumption? I think you are confusing two different questions here, how? and why? As a scientist I only care about how, and evolution is the only theory that fits and is supported by evidence for what has happened in these last 4 billion years. I donâ??t care about why, thatâ??s where your faith and un-provable arguments try to pass off as how.

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Originally Posted by TakeFlight

Everyone needs to go through there own experiences and come up with their OWN ideas/thoughts to this subject and not base it on what other people say.

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All of our technology and all of our knowledge about the world is based upon past ideas and methods. We must learn form others (mistakes and advances) to truly understand our Universe. All the while we should be skeptical of what others are trying to tell us. Donâ??t believe me in any of what I have said above? Prove me wrong and provide evidence, thatâ??s what science is all about.

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Originally Posted by MoonStarer420

We know exactly where we came from and mostly how it happened. We are the product of fusion, time and force (as in gravitational, nuclear, and electromagnetic). This is all based on quantitative and observable evidence. The CMB, Doppler shifts, and globular clusters tell us "time" started about 13-14 billion years ago; simulations and elemental abundances tell us that all the heavier elements above He were produced by fusion in the insides of stars; the production of these heavier elements allowed later stars (that were created out of the stellar ash of the exploded old ones) to make planets; the origin of life is the only real fuzzy part, but experiments that simulated the early conditions on Earth shows that it doesn?t take much to create the basic organic compounds for life, (which I might add are fairly common in the Universe).

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You are being hypocritical here, you say we know exactly where we came from and MOSTLY how it happened??? and then you spew out some scientific mumbo jumbo like you were programmed to do it and then you go on to say the origin of life is the only real fuzzy part. You contradict yourself multiple times or you just dont understand it yourself

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Where do you see a flaw? Where do you see an assumption? I think you are confusing two different questions here, how? and why? As a scientist I only care about how, and evolution is the only theory that fits and is supported by evidence for what has happened in these last 4 billion years. I don?t care about why, that?s where your faith and un-provable arguments try to pass off as how.

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Well the one flaw that really stands out is why this "evolutional" process has stopped or peaked, by all means please answer this for me because nobody has ever made that one clear. If we are still evolving then what are we evolving to?

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All of our technology and all of our knowledge about the world is based upon past ideas and methods. We must learn form others (mistakes and advances) to truly understand our Universe. All the while we should be skeptical of what others are trying to tell us. Don?t believe me in any of what I have said above? Prove me wrong and provide evidence, that?s what science is all about.

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I totally agree with you on what you just said, i should have said that differently. What i meant is that people will read or learn something and just instantly believe it without researching it and coming to a conclusion themselves.

I dont agree with science always, if somethingt is unexplainable by science then wouldnt that mean that science isnt neccesarily accurate or all true?

You should read the cosmic serpent, i dont remember whos its by but its a great read for someone like yourself

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Originally Posted by TakeFlight

You are being hypocritical here, you say we know exactly where we came from and MOSTLY how it happened???

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When I said I know exactly where we have come from, I mean where the atoms (heavier then He) in our bodies have come from. When I said how it happen I mean the steps from the Big Bang to where we are today, in other words the models and ideas that go along with the theory. We have proof of the big Bang, what could have been produced and from there we develop ideas of what could have happened and what we observe. Our theories are very closely related to observations, and that is how we know what has happened.

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Originally Posted by TakeFlight

...and then you spew out some scientific mumbo jumbo like you were programmed to do it and then you go on to say the origin of life is the only real fuzzy part.

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Itâ??s not â??mumbo jumboâ?� just because you canâ??t understand it. My hope was to expose you to certain ideas for you to look into. These are ones Iâ??ve been exposed to and have had to deal with in theory and practice. It was mainly a quick history of the Universe (at least what I could remember off the top of my head.)

The origin of life is fuzzy (and yes so are a lot of other things but not as major as this one.) because we donâ??t know how organic molecules could turn into RNA and DNA. Itâ??s not that it will always be unknown, just unknown for now. Science takes time and patience.

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Originally Posted by TakeFlight

You contradict yourself multiple times â?¦

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Point it out then, because I fail to see where I have.

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Originally Posted by TakeFlight

Well the one flaw that really stands out is why this "evolutional" process has stopped or peakedâ?¦ If we are still evolving then what are we evolving to?

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It hasnâ??t stopped or peaked (unless life ceases to exist somehow) evolution is continuous, but slow (in our time). It deals with the changes in genetics from many, many generations of species. The idea that is has direction is also a common misconception. It simply doesnâ??t. The environment influences the characteristics that species have. The better the trait, the better the species has at chance for survival.

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Originally Posted by TakeFlight

if somethingt is unexplainable by science then wouldnt that mean that science isnt neccesarily accurate or all true?

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I donâ??t think you can say anything is unexplainable by science. By current methods it may be currently impossible. There are many tricks and other devices to find ways around obstacles that prevent us from knowing information. I forgot who it was, but an astronomer once said it would be impossible for us to ever know what stars were made out of, then a few years later absorption lines of elements were found in the Sun and it completely revolutionized the field.