My qualms with atheism.

lol, people on the same wavelength are always cool. Sorry though, I don't think we can rule the matrix together. I think if there are gonna be two people ruling it, it's gotta be a guy conciousness and a girl conciousness. For traditions sake or something.

And we are in the matrix, the creators of the matrix made the movie and made it somewhat cheesy so they could get a real big kick out of all the people saying "interesting but unrealistic..."

okay maybe not.. it was an interesting thought, but unrealistic.

lol, ignorance is bliss

Wow.... reading that was amazing. This is one deep conversation, but as someone said earlier, you can go insane pondering these factors. I agree with everything you said daisy. Just think if you thought about this on shrooms lol!

I'm pretty sure it all stemmed from shrooms... this is some pretty beshroomed banter in this thread.

Psychadellics caused all my original well thought out religious questioning. Before I liked the drugs, my questioning was just rebellion, but before I tried the good stuff ((pot, salvia, shrooms, hb woodrose)) my brain never really went too deep into why I didn't believe in god. It was more of "Well... i dont c him. So hes fake." But then one day I was smoking pot and thinking about it and I was like "Wow, that's a really infant like way of thinking of things.. mommy walked behind a wall! she's gone forever!" kinda thing.

beshroomed banters where it's at.

Sure, if Mommy walked behind a wall, you had actually seen her. You had real evidence that she exists. But if you don't have the slightest shred of evidence that fastastical beings like Santa Claus, leprechauns, unicords or gods exist, then it's only logical to assume that they don't.

What's really infantile, if you ask me, is leaning on an invisible friend/father figure during times of trouble rather than taking responsibility for your own life and your own problems.

BAM! IT IS ILLOGICAL TO EVER ASSUME!


ok that's my digs.



logic is illogical if it is based on ASSUMING something doesnt exist because you dont have proof.

logic is illogical by being based on assumptions and perceptions.

maybe emotional logic is even more redundant, but at least im going with my gut. it just seems more logical to go with instinct over "logic".

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Originally Posted by Stoner Shadow Wolf

logic is illogical if it is based on ASSUMING something doesnt exist because you dont have proof.

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what? no it's not. it only becomes logical to believe something exists when there's pertinent evidence pointing to it's existence. If that logic were true, then it's illogical to assume there's no such thing as leprechaun's, fairies, klingons, mole people, and giant space jelly fish that roam the galaxy feasting on stars. anything my imagination can possibly conjure up can't be discounted by such logic. and until there's a logical reason, with real evidence towards god's existence, there's absolutely no basis for believing in his existence.

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Originally Posted by Stoner Shadow Wolf

BAM! IT IS ILLOGICAL TO EVER ASSUME!

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Quite the contrary. We make thousands and thousands of assumptions during our day, and most of them are founded on logic. For example, when I bite into a banana, I assume that it's not going to be crunchy. This is an assumption; I have no way of disproving the idea that someone has secretly created a crunchy species of banana and slipped me one. But based on my past experiences and the extreme unlikelihood of the alternatives, I'm going to assume that any banana I bite into is going to be soft.

When I talk to my mother, I assume it's really my mother. I have no way of disproving the idea that she was abducted by aliens and replaced with a robot that looks and acts exactly like her, while in reality she is being held in Area 51 for experimentation. But I assume it's really her, and it's a logical assumption, since any alternative explanation of why there is a being that looks and acts like my mother is so unlikely that it would need substantial evidence to back it up if anybody is going to take it seriously.

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logic is illogical if it is based on ASSUMING something doesnt exist because you dont have proof.

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So it's completely illogical to assume that there is no colony of turtles living at the center of the earth? I bet you assume that there is no such colony of turtles, but I bet you don't have any proof that the colony of turtles is not there.

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logic is illogical by being based on assumptions and perceptions.

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Logic is illogical? That's like saying red is green, or up is down. It doesn't make any sense to say logic is illogical. Assumptions and perceptions are all we have to go on in this world. We are given sensory input, and we have to figure out how the world works to the best of our knowledge. This is done by observing the given evidence and coming up with theories (models of how the world works) that explain the evidence in the most plausible way. Inventing beings and saying they have to exist just because nobody has proven that they don't exist doesn't get us anywhere.

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maybe emotional logic is even more redundant, but at least im going with my gut. it just seems more logical to go with instinct over "logic".

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Huh? How is it "more logical" to choose intuition over logic? That's less logical and more intuitional. Less logic = less logical. More logic = more logical. Please try to pay attention to the language we've all agreed upon.

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Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Sure, if Mommy walked behind a wall, you had actually seen her. You had real evidence that she exists. But if you don't have the slightest shred of evidence that fastastical beings like Santa Claus, leprechauns, unicords or gods exist, then it's only logical to assume that they don't.

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Let me put it another way. "Only mom ever comes around. I must not have a dad!" But logic tells us, in order for us to exist we must have been created (by mommy AND daddy, so even if we can't see dad, he's around, we know he's around and it would be dumb to assume he's not)

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Originally Posted by Oneironaut

What's really infantile, if you ask me, is leaning on an invisible friend/father figure during times of trouble rather than taking responsibility for your own life and your own problems.

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Well, first of all, no one did ask you. ((lawl.)) And second, Yeah, you're right big time about it being immature to not take responsibility for you own actions, good or bad. No one here is saying its not. You aren't replying to the real argument that's been made though.

I don't believe in a god (besides that the universe may be god seeing as its probably infinite and can clearly create conciousness, whether by chance or not, it's done it, and those are my only pre-requisites for god) but don't you think its rather godly in the first place for something to exist without creation? Which the orinal existant thing has done.

Did coincidence create the existence of existence? What created physics, the universe, the orignial energy? We'll never know, I doubt it was some guy outside space and time making it all like a painter makes a painting, but it is really fucking weird, no? If we're going to use observational logic, we know that things don't just pop up outta nowhere.

I'm not making the argument that theres some invisible guy with an iron mallet carving all the mountains, everyone seems to forget that. I'm just saying, things don't just appear in our experience, so for the orinal physical thing that the universe as a whole spawns from to have just appeared, thats pretty miraculous in itself. The universe is more likely to be a godlike figure then something outside of it directing it all.