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Reverse direction? Yikes, thanks for the warning, I didn't expect that. I did notice that pH levels werent as high when I topped off this last time. pH was getting to 6.6-7.0 after a few days to a week, previously. When I checked a few this time around, I was getting 5.5-6.4 ... But in theory I should expect different patterns then Veg state because I used tigerbloom instead of growbig, correct? Instead of loading up on N for Veg, we are loading up on P ... I believe
I think the way it usually works is that pH goes up when nutes are consumed and goes down when water is consumed. I don't know if using 5.3 water is such a good idea. Shoot for about 6.3 when water and nutes are mixed, then add that to top off. ppm drops because adding water dilutes the mix, so your solid particles (ppm) goes down. I suspect that your curling leaf problem might be due to low pH. Mix water and nutes and see what pH is, then adjust if necessary. I bet you could let pH get to 6.8-6.9 without problems, however most info I've read says to shoot for a fairly steady pH of around 6.3, but don't sweat it too bad if it goes up. That might just mean to add some more fert. If the water level drops visibly, then top off some but you should use a mix of water and nutes, not just water as doing this will probably give the best pH/ppm maintenance.
Do you see how this works? If the nutes are too few, ppm is low and pH is high.
If pH is low, nutes are too many and water too less. At least this is how it usually works. pH and ppm tend to work opposite to each other. You need high ppm to make pH low using just nutes alone. More fert makes the water more acidic (low pH). It's not the amount necessarily but the low pH is telling you that there is more fert molecules per unit of water and making the water more acidic. High pH means there is greater dilution as water tends to be right around the middle with a number of 7. Number 1 is very acidic and 14 is very alkaline and 7 is in the middle, which is usually what water is. When you add ferts to water the pH starts to drop as the water becomes more acidic. Ideally you grow with a stable pH of around 6.3 and enough ppm to feed a hungry plant. I think low pH has been known to cause leaf curling.
Thanks Polish, greatly appreciated. That clears up a lot. You answered a question I hadn't asked yet :D .
It makes perfect sense to add a mix of nute/water to rez's with low ppm counts/higher pH, because as you said the ppm levels are down when ph goes up. (Most likely), always will check before I do it though. I understand that fully now. I had read and heard to just use ph'd water during feedings, which is why I was wondering what to do with my current situation of low ppms.
I checked all my rez, and two of the 15 had low pH of 4.5, and all the others had 6.5ish. The one that had the most curling was one of the lower ones. The two that had the low ph, were the biggest. I dont know if this has anything to do with it, but maybe they are further along in flower then the other gals? Bigger plant, faster cycle? Higher ppm levels in those 2 as well.
I topped them off with just water this time, didn't read the post in time :) But this is day 5 of the nute mix, so Im thinking on day 7 i'll mix a fresh batch up.
So about me using 5.3ph top off water. Lets say I check a rez, got lower ppms, and it needs water. Do I Use the same ratio of nutes to water as I did when I made the first batch, but just for the top off amount? When nutes get taken up, ph goes up most likely. So in this case, lets say Im dealing with a 6.5 ph level in the rez before I add anything. Would I then pH the nute mix to 5.5-5.8 to account for the overall pH in the rez? I know you mentioned 6.3 ... Or add the mix to the rez, stir it up, then pH the whole rez? There's gotta be an easier way to do maintenance on the rez's then im doing lol. I have an 18g tote that has its lid cut for two of my netted pots. Because I was going to use those instead as rez. So when I do my work on my rez's, one or two at a time, i lift them into that tote as gently as I can, then do what I need to.
Sorry for all the q's, and thanks in advance for the advice. I love learning about this stuff, it's fascinating.
I think I see what you're saying, but I want to pick this apart piece by piece so we can both get it right. :D
"So about me using 5.3ph top off water. Lets say I check a rez, got lower ppms, and it needs water. Do I Use the same ratio of nutes to water as I did when I made the first batch, but just for the top off amount?"
Yes, that would probably be best. Remember that the more you change, the harder it is to keep track of what you've done and haven't done. This is true for all of life too.
"When nutes get taken up, ph goes up most likely. So in this case, lets say Im dealing with a 6.5 ph level in the rez before I add anything. Would I then pH the nute mix to 5.5-5.8 to account for the overall pH in the rez?"
This is kind of hard to answer. So much of this is trial and error sometimes. That's how it is for scientists. They weren't born knowing better, but they experiment and keep track of results and draw conclusions. I would probably top off first, get your water/nute mix to the level you want it, then pH adjust it. Some here might disagree with that, but I say this because it takes little pH down or up to make a change. Volume of water in your container plays a roll here. If you pH adjust first, get it where you want it, then add top-off to a rez, don't be surprised if your pH walks away from where you want it to be. So top off first, then pH. The liquid you add for pH is minimal, plus adding a water/nute mix first will get your pH closer to where you want it so you most likely will save some pH down or whatever you're using. I'd try not to use too much down if you can help it because phosphoric acid probably works like a fert too. So depend more on real fert to manage pH than the downs and ups. In the end you let the plant tell you what's wrong, but this is difficult until you become more educated. There are some good books out there and amazon should have them for pennies.
"I know you mentioned 6.3 ... Or add the mix to the rez, stir it up, then pH the whole rez?"
Answered above.
"There's gotta be an easier way to do maintenance on the rez's then im doing lol."
Not to be a wise guy here, but this is one of those things where you get out what you put in. You don't need to go crazy (and you'll kill your plants if you do), but hydro takes more effort. You don't need to buy meters for soil. You don't need entire rez changes for soil. But you gain quicker grows that are more robust than soil. If you want slow grows, then soil is it. It's easier too. But there's some good reasons to do hydro. You wouldn't be doing it now if you were not already interested so cut yourself some slack. I guess what you mean is "how can I reduce the maintenance?" Probably the easiest thing would be a single rez system feeding several buckets. Problems with this are having a great deal of water in a single container that if it spills will be all over the place. You have to spend alot of money on fert just to get the ppm right. Smaller water amounts are easier to control. If you're in an area where you can leave the system running for a week without checking on it, then a big rez is the only thing to do. Easy is a relative thing and sometimes working harder is working smarter.
"I have an 18g tote that has its lid cut for two of my netted pots. Because I was going to use those instead as rez. So when I do my work on my rez's, one or two at a time, i lift them into that tote as gently as I can, then do what I need to."
Not entirely sure what this means unless you're referring to overflow and using the tote to catch the liquid. Usually a grower just puts down plastic or grows on vinyl or concrete. Are you the same grower that a while back was asking about using either totes or buckets, and several of us suggested you use buckets? When you say rez are you referring to those buckets? Are you just in DWC single bucket style? For buckets all you really need is a bucket you don't grow in, and pick the plant up with its lid and set down in the empty bucket. Then do what you need to.
Thanks for taking the time Polish.
Yeah I can see what you mean about adding your mix first, and then adjusting pH. It's kind of a guessing game if you don't, I see that now.
To explain that last part better.. Yeah earlier in this thread I had decided to use Totes for my reservoirs, but along the way I changed to the 5gal buckets(single bucket DWC style) to makes things more simple. Yeah how you said about placing the plant in a bucket you don't grow in, thats what I do with the totes. What had concerned me was the large root mass being picked up, being lowered into another bucket, and making sure not to pinch the roots on the way down. But yeah I gotcha, it's the duties of hydro.
I'll give a search on amazon.
check back in with updates using this thread so I can find it and preferrably shows pics if you can and feel comfortable doing so. Pics aren't necessary here, just update later if you want so I can get feedback.
Hasn't been much to update in the past few days, but things are going good. All the plants are showing pistils now and starting to stink :thumbsup:. Today im changing the Rez's out for a new batch of nutes when they awake. Still just going to use Big Bloom and Tiger Bloom, but in the upcoming weeks the FF feeding schedule uses all 3 of the trio.. IE Grow Big in addition to BB and TB. Grow Big was used highly in Veg, containing a lot of N... I think my shortest plant is about 22-24" and the tallest is pushing 36". It's a forest! It takes me back to the good old days, my first grow, when I grew just one plant but did it well. The stalk at the end of its life was so thick, I broke a pair of scissors trying to cut it lol... I'm at that level again :D
Ugh I think I vegged too long, each plant is 4ft tall.. Its day 19 of flower, and I just made a fresh batch of nutes for the reservoirs. I noticed the plants were drinking quite a bit less then on an 18/6 cycle, so Im guessing they dont drink much if at all during a night period? Also, my temps have lowered due to the temp outside lowering. Temps range from 76-70, 70 being at night. Im almost thinking 70 -69 and 68 is a bit too cold?
I was thinking about something for my next grow.. If I were to top the plant early, after 3rd leaf set or so, then after a while top the new shoots, and etc... with the growth rate I have with hydro, wouldnt that fix my tall plant problems? And just make them super bushy? I know by doing this it would slow growth down a bit, and if i were to consistantly cut to form 2 shoots again and again, this process would take a bit longer then if I didnt, but im thinking yield would be better? Ive never topped a plant, but ive lst'd, and ive cut fan leaves and such.
I havent mentioned it a lot, but im growing white skunk and blackberry :thumbsup: Im really looking forward to the bb, sativa high :jointsmile:
Sounds like everything is working. Are you seeing any leaf discoloration at all?
No lower than 68 if you can.
Cutting tops will shorten and probably make more bushy, but not necessarily give more yield.
Would be nice to see a photo of your grow bucket set up, but if you can't that's fine too.
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No leaf discoloration. Yeah after I posted about cutting tops, I researched supercropping, and it looks like the way to go by far. With my setup, it looks like it would work great.