Quality has really taken a plunge!

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Originally Posted by Zedleppelin

I'm not sure I understand the intent of this statement. Are you attempting to imply something?

I wasn't implying anything. I got banned for a comment in which I questioned the legality or illegality of news story about a homegrow getting busted. There were few details on the story, and I won't re-post the comment, but the reason for the mod dropping the ban hammer was 'wishing a bust on others'. I don't understand that since we were discussing a bust/arrest after the fact, and I didn't 'wish' anyone get 'busted' I'm confused at how I broke that rule, but whatever, it's in the past. It's now obvious that my initial posts were pretty abrasive and I should have posted more by posting less, if that makes sense. I have asked for follow up from a half a dozen people/admins here, and my emails are ignored so I'm not sure what to do. I never felt like I broke a rule after my first post, so I am honestly afraid of saying the 'wrong' thing and getting banned again. I'm sure you wouldn't mind. I'm still not interested in pissing anyone off, and I will continue to post this disclaimer.

I have no idea what other caregivers are doing, but its been a long time since I grew over 36 plants, and even with that I'm able to pull 2 1/2 lbs a month which is enough to keep me happy. I dont trust the increased counts, but I suppose if I was younger and had more balls I could grow 125 plants with my recs. Since its been over a year since I've been involved with dispensaries I also dont know how most are handling 1284, but what i've heard from people on the inside is right now there are only 2 regulators covering the entire state, so you do the math.

I didn't know this. Do you think bartkowitz would have gotten in trouble if he stayed off the news? I'm just curious and it doesn't matter anyway.

No, I dont despise patients or new growers, I despise people who are new to this and think they know every damn thing, I despise people who claim clinics can grow better quality than a caregiver, I despise people that compare caregivers to drug dealers, I despise people that compare someone growing a plant to a meth lab, and I certainly despise people who wish others to get busted.
I'm going to go ahead and assume you are talking about me, here. Please allow me to respond as if you are being passive aggressive and addressing me. Sorry if you aren't.

I don't sit here and pretend to act like I know much of anything, except how to consume my medicine. I'm kind of a snob/connoisseur if that wasn't obvious, and I like my meds to be very, very high quality. I'm not trying to be disrespectful to caregivers. However, get off of your soapbox. Very, very few caregivers can grow the type of quality stuff I seek. See: Craigslist. Caregivers don't sell the type of medicine I'm looking for on CL. I have talked to about a dozen different caregivers/growers, and only one could show me average quality that I find at MMC's. It's not disrespect, it's lack of access. I'm sure eventually I'll find quality from a private caregiver, but it hasn't happened for me yet. I would be happy to eat my words when I find a top quality caregiver. I'm not an idiot, I realize that MMC's got these top shelf top quality meds from caregivers, not themselves. That should be obvious to anyone who isn't just a hater.
I hesitate to go back to this, but I never said that caregivers are equal to meth labs, nor did I compare patients to drug dealers or anything like that. That's all stuff that is illegal, something I don't care to discuss at this point. I have a plant, and I certainly don't consider myself on par with someone operating a meth lab. Weird that it could be construed as such. It's pretty silly to me that people here who are very smart (like you) continue to think this. I mean it's fine and I couldn't care less what some random thinks, but if you really think that, your comprehension seems to be lacking. I say that respectfully, even if it doesn't change your opinion. But I'm pretty certain you know all of this and are just baiting me. Good times. Again, I don't care to argue legal versus illegal since I think that's what caused my earlier ban

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Now that our two posts have gone slightly off topic, can we get back on topic? I hate to derail an otherwise decent thread.

I keep seeing other forums and stuff for various marijuana related subjects. Are there private, member-only forums where caregivers can 'connect'? I'm not looking to get into the club, I'm just curious whether caregivers have a regular network of other growers. I know one caregiver fairly well and he's been growing over ten years, but I don't think he's ever asked for advice, because he does some things that are just fucking stupid, stuff even I know not to do.

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Originally Posted by copobo

there are some good deals on CL. it's a shame nobody is ever selling 600w rigs.

and yea, nobody is going away...

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I know you didn't ask, but this might have potential, seems like lots of equipment.

Ballast, Ebb& Grow Buckets, Trays, Trimpro Automatik

Wow!

I've now been in like 5-6 dispensaries since Sept 1 and ALL of them had CRAP buds that were basically mids.... although prices are still the same. Shit the stuff I grew under a 1000W HPS in my basement on my first attempt is better than this stuff. And these are reputable places!! 3 of them have stickies at the top of this forum.
So bummed. To get high-grade nugs it looks like it's back to the black market... or grow it yourself!
However, edibles seem to be of the same quality. Looks like I picked a good time to slow way down on smoking and enjoy edibles.

I'll stop bitching... but for those of you who feel the same about the quality plunge.. check out the edible scene!

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Originally Posted by lampost

Wow!

I've now been in like 5-6 dispensaries since Sept 1 and ALL of them had CRAP buds that were basically mids.... although prices are still the same. Shit the stuff I grew under a 1000W HPS in my basement on my first attempt is better than this stuff. And these are reputable places!! 3 of them have stickies at the top of this forum.
So bummed. To get high-grade nugs it looks like it's back to the black market... or grow it yourself!
However, edibles seem to be of the same quality. Looks like I picked a good time to slow way down on smoking and enjoy edibles.

I'll stop bitching... but for those of you who feel the same about the quality plunge.. check out the edible scene!

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You have a valid complaint, but you aren't shopping at the right places.

MMC's have seen a HUGE increase in sales since 1284/109, and with vertical integration it's been difficult for them to buy additional inventory when sales spike, just like we're seeing now. I'm sure you understand how many caregivers aren't growing anymore, right?

Obviously you don't have a relationship with a quality mmc, or you're just posting to hate on mmc's, which is fine. I'm not trying to insult you here. I don't have a quality caregiver so I'm stuck buying from mmc's, and I don't have any sort of problem buying quality meds, and I rarely pay more than $40-$45 an 1/8th for top 1%.

Would you like to have a discussion on where to get good meds? Maybe save yourself some gas money? I notice you didn't post which mmc's are moving 'mids', care to elaborate?

Yeah sure... I'm not trying to dis on any dispensaries here because I know they've all been dealt a shit hand. But here's where I've been:

-Delta-9
-Grateful Meds
-ReLeaf Center (actually had the best dried flowers, but it was still before Sept 1)
-Mountain Medicine
-Urban Dispensary

I found great stuff at these places prior to Sept 1 and now it is garbage... looks like schwaggy outdoor. All 5 places had VERY similar looking buds...

Again I'm not blaming these dispensaries. I've seen that they know how to do it right in the past if they are given free reign. The problem lies in how much they've been limited.

I'm guessing I'm just a bit pickier than you are. If you can tell me an MMC that has top-quality like, say, what you could pick up at D-9 6 months ago... then I'll gladly admit that I'm entirely off base. But I don't think you can!

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Originally Posted by lampost

Yeah sure... I'm not trying to dis on any dispensaries here because I know they've all been dealt a shit hand. But here's where I've been:

-Delta-9
-Grateful Meds
-ReLeaf Center (actually had the best dried flowers, but it was still before Sept 1)
-Mountain Medicine
-Urban Dispensary

I found great stuff at these places prior to Sept 1 and now it is garbage... looks like schwaggy outdoor. All 5 places had VERY similar looking buds...

Again I'm not blaming these dispensaries. I've seen that they know how to do it right in the past if they are given free reign. The problem lies in how much they've been limited.

I'm guessing I'm just a bit pickier than you are. If you can tell me an MMC that has top-quality like, say, what you could pick up at D-9 6 months ago... then I'll gladly admit that I'm entirely off base. But I don't think you can!

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I can guarantee you that you aren't pickier than I am. I'm not talking shit when I say that the caregivers that I have experience with simply can't grow the quality medicine that I need. I'm rarely impressed with mmc's, quality is hard to find.

I agree with you that quality has dropped, even at places like releaf. They still are a top mmc even in this climate. I guess I'm trying to say that the quality mmc's are still moving the best possible stuff they can. It's tough finding that 1% huh?

Wellspring's house ingrid is okay, they have a grower who supplies their pre98 bubba that also supplies some indica strains that are decent.

Tetra Hydro Center is a small, slightly overpriced shop on hampden, but they'll weigh your bag to 5 grams if you're nice. They have a top 1% sour diesel.

The Hemp Center in Littleton has a decent kush, budding health in the tech center has good meds but they aren't worth your money.

It's difficult justifying a trip to an MMC for only one strain that you might not even like anyway, but these places are solid and have near quality of 6-months-ago, but not the selection. I miss that bigass bowl of earwax delta had for awhile. For awhile, their extracts were the best around without a doubt. Now releaf has the best selection and knowledge of any place I've seen, and I troll mmc's for extracts these days.

I've found that kindreviews is emerging as a good source, so is willbreathes at westword. It just sucks that we only get a couple of decent reviews a month.

Let's have a frank discussion, because this is the industries dirty little secret right now: quality has dropped. And everyone wants to pretend it hasn't.

Have we had a decrease in quality and selection? You bet. It's mostly in the mid to lower grades, where we have one strain a piece. It's not what we grow and everyone who is growing it is overvaluing it because of the market. I'll talk more about that later.

Our high end strains are still high end, but there aren't as many. It kills me every time someone comes in and says "Hey, you're looking a little light."

Part of it was unrealistic expectations. We used to run 25-30 strains, so patients came to expect that. There is nothing wrong with having 10 strains of high end meds if there is a balance of indicas, hybrids and sativas. We still have over 25 different types of hash and a variety of edibles. We still bring it.

But we relied on great caregivers that have more years of experience than I have on this planet. Caregivers from this board. Caregivers growing for AIDS, MS and cancer patients. Caregivers we were proud to support.

Don't get me wrong: we know how to grow, too. Our Jack Flash is still one of my all time favorites. Probably always will be. We turned out quite a few proud harvest pre-9/01/10.

Everything changes when you're in an industrial space you've never worked in before. We've adapted to new circumstances and tested consistently well at FSL, producing several strains over 19% THC. Could we grow 25 strains at a time? 50? Sure... but the results would be disastrous.

So we're focusing on quality, less on selection. We have a kick ass geneticist popping seeds and working on our own strains. Keeping our favorites means we can get more of the expensive testing done. We figured that the selection would come from trading. Boy, were we wrong.

I receive calls every day from other MMC's looking to buy their 30%. I've taken two already this morning. Not swap. Buy.

I'd guess that 70% of us are in the same boat. We grow our house strains, try to keep up with demand and have taken a small hit. Maybe 5% of the shops can actually wholesale and they are gouging most everyone. The combination of fearful MMC's and the increased business they're doing (because of all the closures/low stock levels) means they can charge whatever they want. And they're getting it.

When this whole discussion came up before, I made the Pepsi/Coke analogy. If Coke's production plant went down, is Pepsi going to start bottling for them? Now we have an answer.

The other 25% are operating outside of 1284 and still working with caregivers. I know quite a few caregivers that are still in business, some completely oblivious to the fact that they're breaking the law. Some just don't care.

You know what? Some of those shops have a much better variety than us. They're easy to spot; you can tell how many grower's handy work goes into jars. When the Department of Revenue tells you they can't truly audit anyone for months, possibly a year, it's tempting.

We could do the same thing. We also want to be here in a year, in five years, or until the country wakes up and legalizes.

September sucks. We're getting our grow down, but we're not quite there yet. We're not going to pay $1100 a QP for meds. We're also not going to raise prices. Ever.

We want to fight parts of 1284, but they've made it difficult. The 70/30 rule makes no sense at all. If it's all being monitored and tracked, why do the percentages matter? If they want everything on camera, why does it matter if we grow in an industrial space or a basement? I could go on for a while about what is broken/unconstitutional in 1284.

We'll continue to fight for caregivers, as well. We'll be attending Monday's city council meeting and will hopefully have an opportunity to speak.

So bear with us. We still have great meds on the shelf, an amazing staff and our dedication to patients. Reports of our death are greatly exaggerated.

great post

it's interesting the net effect of getting everything under control is Center owners are now tempted to go black market and quality + supply are taking a major hit.

this is where organized crime will step in, thanks to 1284

There may be a shift in the other direction as more of the greenhouses finish up. Plus mites aren't nearly as bad in CO come winter, so we'll be turning away less.