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Quote:
Originally Posted by cologrower420
SprngsCaregiver:
I thought we agreed to disagree. You were offended at a comment in which you mistakenly thought I compared you, as a legal, compliant caregiver, to an illegal meth lab. Since that post, you've made several troll-baiting posts in threads where I've posted. What's your problem? I simply asked that you stop responding to my posts if you don't like them.
As a result of your troll baiting, you've created a TON of work for the probably unpaid moderators here. It's unproductive and ridiculous if you're over the age of 14, and you've made the moderators delete posts, delete or edit threads where there was otherwise valuable information.
Do you understand that your troll-baiting behavior doesn't do anything positive here? I fully expect to be seen and viewed as an 'other', someone who recently started in this industry, as opposed to the underground guys who are the vast majority of people reading this site/thread. I don't care.
Actually it flat out offended me that you would compare anything MJ to meth but whatever I'm done with that.
I don't feel I need to even respond to you incinuating that I'm the troll. I'm pretty sure everyone can see the facts.
If you are suggesting I'm in some sort of "click" you're dead wrong.. I know absolutly nobody on this site.
Now back to the topic...
HighPop you said...
Quote:
Originally Posted by HighPopalorum
ahem.... First Amendment...
Wouldn't this be more like publishing where the military stockpiles their weapons or something? Considering they had to of got this information from a "private database".
Quote:
Article 18 section 14 of the Colorado Constitution states..
(3) The state health agency shall create and maintain a confidential registry of patients who have applied for and are entitled to receive a registry identification card according to the criteria set forth in this subsection, effective June 1, 2001.
(a) No person shall be permitted to gain access to any information about patients in the state health agency's confidential registry, or any information otherwise maintained by the state health agency about physicians and primary care-givers, except for authorized employees of the state health agency in the course of their official duties and authorized employees of state or local law enforcement agencies which have stopped or arrested a person who claims to be engaged in the medical use of marijuana and in possession of a registry identification card or its functional equivalent, pursuant to paragraph (e) of this subsection (3). Authorized employees of state or local law enforcement agencies shall be granted access to the information contained within the state health agency's confidential registry only for the purpose of verifying that an individual who has presented a registry identification card to a state or local law enforcement official is lawfully in possession of such card.
They are handing out information protected by the Colorado Constitution.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SprngsCaregiver
Wouldn't this be more like publishing where the military stockpiles their weapons or something? Considering they had to of got this information from a "private database".
1. I don't think that rhetorical simile has any power: The military stockpiles weapons in armories and on bases, whose locations are not secret. You can look up their addresses in the phone book.
2. And, as a general matter, I take a very broad view of the press's power. I can think of very few situations where I would side with government in a dispute over publishing confidential data. See: Wikileaks. I prefer the 1A to be 'too permissive' rather than even slightly constricting.
3. How could the press have possibly obtained that information from the registry? The article indicates their source was the police department. If you're going to muzzle someone, muzzle the police and not the newspaper.
4. Finally, were it my building, I would want to know. I have reservations about the safety of growing in multi-unit dwellings. We had a patient burn himself and and another man to death here last year. The fire started in his apartment grow and spread to others. I'd want to know, and I'd be glad the paper told me.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copobo
those most negatively effected by 109 and 1284 are the patients who were set up with small time caregivers. While you've admitted you smoke for fun, many actually need cannabis to get through their day.
You see, many caregivers gave free meds to patients in need, now many of these "greedy" caregivers had to let patients go (who got free meds) and now can't supply for free to their 5, as they can't sell legally to dispensaries, which is how they paid the bills. I'm afraid you don't have an historical perspective into how this has gone in Colorado up until the point where you jumped in for fun, so it looks like greed to you. Unfortunately, in order to protect dispensaries we passed 1284 and 109, and many non-profit caregivers were forced to send patients away, and to start charging those who were previously served for free.
well put and well said.:thumbsup:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighPopalorum
1. I don't think that rhetorical simile has any power: The military stockpiles weapons in armories and on bases, whose locations are not secret. You can look up their addresses in the phone book.
2. And, as a general matter, I take a very broad view of the press's power. I can think of very few situations where I would side with government in a dispute over publishing confidential data. See: Wikileaks. I prefer the 1A to be 'too permissive' rather than even slightly constricting.
3. How could the press have possibly obtained that information from the registry? The article indicates their source was the police department. If you're going to muzzle someone, muzzle the police and not the newspaper.
4. Finally, were it my building, I would want to know. I have reservations about the safety of growing in multi-unit dwellings. We had a patient burn himself and and another man to death here last year. The fire started in his apartment grow and spread to others. I'd want to know, and I'd be glad the paper told me.
Ok you're right that was a bad example. I also agree with you about the press's power, except when they are putting American citizens in danger. Remember when Geraldo was giving up troop positions on the news? That was bullshit right? The newspaper & police are putting the compliant patients and caregivers in danger of being robbed or killed for their medicine.
[edit] Isn't the Police moto: "To protect and serve"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SprngsCaregiver
Ok you're right that was a bad example. I also agree with you about the press's power, except when they are putting American citizens in danger. Remember when Geraldo was giving up troop positions on the news? That was bullshit right? The newspaper & police are putting the compliant patients and caregivers in danger of being robbed or killed for their medicine.
[edit] Isn't the Police moto: "To protect and serve"
Let me rephrase that to law abiding American citizens.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copobo
those most negatively effected by 109 and 1284 are the patients who were set up with small time caregivers. While you've admitted you smoke for fun, many actually need cannabis to get through their day.
You see, many caregivers gave free meds to patients in need, now many of these "greedy" caregivers had to let patients go (who got free meds) and now can't supply for free to their 5, as they can't sell legally to dispensaries, which is how they paid the bills. I'm afraid you don't have an historical perspective into how this has gone in Colorado up until the point where you jumped in for fun, so it looks like greed to you. Unfortunately, in order to protect dispensaries we passed 1284 and 109, and many non-profit caregivers were forced to send patients away, and to start charging those who were previously served for free.
You are wrong entirely. The only thing that I don't have knowledge of is of this culture during the time it was illegal (pre 2000), and the subculture of growing for patients.
You should note that if I didn't have a qualifying health condition, than I wouldn't have gotten my card. So please don't assume I only smoke for recreation.
I will agree that I don't have a 'historical perspective' on growing pot. Is that a bad thing?
Also, I feel that you are lumping for-profit caregivers in with those who give meds to patients. The number of for-profit caregivers outnumbers free med providers 1000-1, so don't act like everyone growing is doing it for the cause. That's ridiculous.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SprngsCaregiver
Actually it flat out offended me that you would compare anything MJ to meth but whatever I'm done with that.
I don't feel I need to even respond to you incinuating that I'm the troll. I'm pretty sure everyone can see the facts.
If you are suggesting I'm in some sort of "click" you're dead wrong.. I know absolutly nobody on this site.
Now back to the topic...
HighPop you said...
Wouldn't this be more like publishing where the military stockpiles their weapons or something? Considering they had to of got this information from a "private database".
They are handing out information protected by the Colorado Constitution.
Doesn't this new legislation trump the constitution? Even though there is no patient count in the constitution in Colorado, doesn't this new legislation require a 5 patient limit? How does A20 over rule the new laws?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cologrower420
Doesn't this new legislation trump the constitution? Even though there is no patient count in the constitution in Colorado, doesn't this new legislation require a 5 patient limit? How does A20 over rule the new laws?
I don't believe it trumps the constitution but I will follow the rules until that's proven in court.
Yes there is a 5 patient limit in the new law. You know this though.. What are you getting at?
I could only tell you how I believe A20, or article 18 section 14 of the Colorado Constitution, overrules the new law but thats pretty irrelevant. I'm not a lawyer or a judge.
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Quote:
You are wrong entirely. The only thing that I don't have knowledge of is of this culture during the time it was illegal (pre 2000), and the subculture of growing for patients.
no, I'm not wrong at all. The subculture of growing for patients is what this is all about, and is also why you don't get it. Funny, I know a dozen growers. none of them are or were making big bucks, and all are 100% about this movement.
Since you think these type of people are 1 in 1000, it is very clear to me why your posts are what they are, and where you are coming from.
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I finally have to comment after reading along for many, many months.
copobo nails it about the set up many folks had going. Many of us have long-term patients with true needs who didn't show up on the Registry in the months after Holder said he wasn't coming. Many of us did what we could/what we had to do to for years to provide these people with free meds. Who the fuck has cancer or AIDS or luekemia that can work everyday and afford to medicate properly at the prices folks are charging today in the dispensaries?? (aka, street prices for those of you with no knowledge of "pre-med"/etc)
I urge all patients who have things set up to remain set up as you were before. If you drop patients as "caregiver" because of 1284's bullshit, bring them back in the fold as a fellow patient and simply donate garden space to them. While 1284 says no 2 'caregivers' can share a garden space I see nowhere that it says no 2 PATIENTS can share a garden space. Am I missing this somewhere or is it a true loophole for us to use? (you dispensary folks remember those, right?)
Either way, no one can track your back channel sales or gifts and I urge you to continue to grow big and provide meds and keep any/all people you can from buying overpriced meds @ the dispensaries. If you give in and give up and let patients fall into this void we will soon see a huge monopoly, and it willl be larger than the present one that is shaping up because the mom and pops are gonna get squeezed out by the WannaMarters and the other huge franchise chains that will McDonald-a-fy this industry if they can do so. At that point the patients that this law was originally written for will just be an afterthought, much like we've seen as the dispensary model unfolded within the last year and a sizeable portion of this movement has turned from need to greed.
you know who you are on both sides of this coin. Respect to those towing the line who remember what this thing we do is really all about.
Whether it be profit or profiteeering, someone else is always picking up the tab.
blackhash
