Dow drops below 9,000, S&P nearing 900
the evidence of said fact is the subprime crisis which is currently ravaging economies around the planet
i like warren buffet but he's one of the guys who is in on the fix...ya think he doesn't get different stock info than you? berkeshire hathaway controls $200 billion....he's too big to fail
BTW: i also believe al qaida and 19 muslim hijackers did 911...sometimes i feel like i'm in the minority on that one
Dow drops below 9,000, S&P nearing 900
To me, the 9/11 issue is too suspicious to call either way.
Back on topic, the Fed doesn't publish M3 anymore, so apparently it's not important.
We're supposed to be getting 3Q balance sheets at the end of this week, which will be a much better indicator of what's going to happen in the near future.
Dow drops below 9,000, S&P nearing 900
Quote:
Originally Posted by maladroit
the evidence of said fact is the subprime crisis which is currently ravaging economies around the planet
This is not evidence, like many of your posts this is your opinion. Economies trend also, they go up and down; that's just what they do for a number of reasons that I won't get into. Seeing as how you chose to try to take on Goldenboy on several economic topics and insist that you're right.. you should have the knowledge base to determine why this happens. It's not magic or voodoo and can often times be predicted.
I am by far no economic or investment genius but I foresaw the fall of the mortgage industry, as well as I saw this market crash coming and took measures necessary to protect myself.
Again; you state opinion in your rebuttal of the following statement I called you on:
but i know for a fact that a lot of people didn't play by the rules and it wiped out $??
Quote:
i like warren buffet but he's one of the guys who is in on the fix...ya think he doesn't get different stock info than you? berkeshire hathaway controls $200 billion....he's too big to fail
Do you think Warren Buffet always had that networth. You act as if he did not build up to it. Investment takes time. Investment is long term. The reason why Warren Buffet has 200 billion is because when everyone was pulling out of the market he would stay in and buy up stocks.
FYI, his mentor was Benjamin Graham; a person whose books I mention fairly frequently whenever the stock market is the topic. I suggest you go pick up The intelligent Investor and Security Analysis for some preliminary reading to get a basic understanding of how the stock market works and how to figure out what stocks are profitable and which are not.
Quote:
BTW: i also believe al qaida and 19 muslim hijackers did 911...sometimes i feel like i'm in the minority on that one
I should hope so since Bin Laden flat out said "we did it"
Dow drops below 9,000, S&P nearing 900
The cognitive dissidence displayed has led me to refrain from partaking in yet another circular argument. There are several posters here who operate strictly from an agenda standpoint, which has gotten boring as of lately.
A few points to make:
First off, there is such thing as a business cycle. :thumbsup:
Secondly, liquidation and recapitalization is the life blood of a recovering market. Right now, this is being artificially implemented. There are a great deal of reasons for doing so, one is to forestall a global currency crash. Money as we have today, is not real. It has ballooned to the point where economies that partake in fiat after a period of time require even more fictional measures to live. I truly believe that what we are experiencing now will be a constant decade function, where the need will only increase in a given period of time; until bailouts are occuring every month and band aids no longer work.
If unilateral (true) deregulation of the markets is not achieved, they will eventually implode. All fiat has failed, at a rate of 100%. It is only a matter of time. I only hope i am dead and gone when it does happen.
Dow drops below 9,000, S&P nearing 900
ok daihashi, i'll explain it to you in more detail
if people were playing by the rules, why are fannie and freddie and AIG and lehman the subject of a federal inquiry in the usa? why is the FBI currently investigating the financial activities of 19 large corporations related to the subprime crisis?
mortgage inquiry and FBI investigation:
FT.com / Companies / Financial services - Mortgage collapse inquiry widened
i do not believe the financial industry played by the rules by gambling the rest of the world's money on risky mortgages...even you, a person who confesses to lack depth of insight on economic and investment matters, saw this mortgage crash coming...why is it so hard for you to believe the masters of the universe on wall street also saw this coming and did nothing to avert it, and even spread their bad decisions around the world, perhaps in an attempt to dilute the crash they saw coming by exporting bad investments to foreign banks without disclosing the risk?
regardless of regulation, financial institutions have a legal obligation to make prudent decisions with other people's money...i believe their fiscal negligence (a crime) borders on fraud (another crime)...people skirted around the rules to make bad decisions that rewarded them personally at the expense of the rest of the world...that's not just my opinion either: dozens of class action lawsuits have been filed against those people for "negligence, fraud, failure of financial statements to comply with GAAP, failure to disclose information regarding loan packages sold to investors, predatory lending, excessive fees, securities fraud, violations of state consumer protection laws, and many other types of substantive claims":
Kilpatrick Stockton LLP: Subprime and Credit Markets Litigation
Law.com - Criminal Prosecutions Predicted to Surge Over Financial Crisis
the crimes committed are not restricted to executives on wall street...the crimes extend all the way down through the system to the individual mortgage brokers on main street...corruption and crime infests the system - that violation of the public trust will take years to correct (if that is even possible)
it will be a cold day in hell before i trust them again, and judging by the dow jones, i think the invisible hand of the free markets is pissed off too
Dow drops below 9,000, S&P nearing 900
Dow drops below 9,000, S&P nearing 900
Quote:
Originally Posted by maladroit
ok daihashi, i'll explain it to you in more detail
if people were playing by the rules, why are fannie and freddie and AIG and lehman the subject of a federal inquiry in the usa? why is the FBI currently investigating the financial activities of 19 large corporations related to the subprime crisis?
mortgage inquiry and FBI investigation:
FT.com / Companies / Financial services - Mortgage collapse inquiry widened
i do not believe the financial industry played by the rules by gambling the rest of the world's money on risky mortgages...even you, a person who confesses to lack depth of insight on economic and investment matters, saw this mortgage crash coming...why is it so hard for you to believe the masters of the universe on wall street also saw this coming and did nothing to avert it, and even spread their bad decisions around the world, perhaps in an attempt to dilute the crash they saw coming by exporting bad investments to foreign banks without disclosing the risk?
regardless of regulation, financial institutions have a legal obligation to make prudent decisions with other people's money...i believe their fiscal negligence (a crime) borders on fraud (another crime)...people skirted around the rules to make bad decisions that rewarded them personally at the expense of the rest of the world...that's not just my opinion either: dozens of class action lawsuits have been filed against those people for "negligence, fraud, failure of financial statements to comply with GAAP, failure to disclose information regarding loan packages sold to investors, predatory lending, excessive fees, securities fraud, violations of state consumer protection laws, and many other types of substantive claims":
Kilpatrick Stockton LLP: Subprime and Credit Markets Litigation
Law.com - Criminal Prosecutions Predicted to Surge Over Financial Crisis
the crimes committed are not restricted to executives on wall street...the crimes extend all the way down through the system to the individual mortgage brokers on main street...corruption and crime infests the system - that violation of the public trust will take years to correct (if that is even possible)
it will be a cold day in hell before i trust them again, and judging by the dow jones, i think the invisible hand of the free markets is pissed off too
Honestly debating with you is like talking to my 2nd grade teacher who insisted I was wrong when I tried to explain exponential power (yes this is a real story).
In any case, I never said I had lack of knowledge.. I said I'm not an expert. I definitley have a fairly good understanding of how things work. Something I can't say the same of for you. I totally understand why Goldenboy avoids you now.
Also your points here have nothing to do with the stock market and "a fact that a lot of people didn't play by the rules and it wiped out $??". The mortgage and loan crisis is a predecessor to the economic crash. We were talking specifically about Stock market investment in the dialogue we had going.
You're really stretching to try to defend your statement. Stay on topic, but no difference to me; you are not a person I can debate with because you are not open to ideas outside your own.
Dow drops below 9,000, S&P nearing 900
"Honestly debating with you is like talking to my 2nd grade teacher"
- sorry if it sounds like i'm talking down to you but you're asking me to explain the painfully obvious like so:
"your points here have nothing to do with the stock market and "a fact that a lot of people didn't play by the rules and it wiped out $??". The mortgage and loan crisis is a predecessor to the economic crash. We were talking specifically about Stock market investment in the dialogue we had going."
- the stock market doesn't exist independently of people in financial industry who don't play by the rules...that's like claiming enron's stock performance had nothing to do with the crimes committed by their executives
"In any case, I never said I had lack of knowledge.. I said I'm not an expert"
- lacking depth of insight means the same thing as not being an expert...it wasn't an insult...i lack depth of insight into many financial issues too...i'm still waiting for someone to explain what 'non-borrowed reserves' means on the federal reserve link i posted earlier in this thread because i lack the depth of insight to understand the term even though i know exactly what the individual words mean
insight
Noun
1. a penetrating understanding, as of a complex situation or problem
2. the ability to perceive clearly or deeply the inner nature of things
Collins Essential English Dictionary 2nd Edition 2006 © HarperCollins Publishers 2004, 2006
Dow drops below 9,000, S&P nearing 900
To ensnare corruption as the chief cause of economic collapse is naive. The Keynesian model (AD/AS) boldly predicts such booms and busts. I am not a Keynesian, but failure to recognize its dominance in the field of economics is a mistake. The reason i am not Keynesian is because it relies on the false assumption that governments are perfect, and people are not. Where in fact, governments are a product of the people, so i must decline such a tempting school of thought.
JMK's proofs are perfectly correct, and are based on a very interesting principle. "in the long run, we are all dead". Therefore, mortgaging the future for the present (short run) is how our current economic models and actions work. The question begs to be asked, "when do we eventually pay the piper?"
The markets will recover no doubt about it. That is in fact the business cycle...
Dow drops below 9,000, S&P nearing 900
i do not believe i am lacking informed judgement by stating the fact that issuing instantly-approved risky mortgages and reselling them without proper disclosure is not part of any legal business cycle
that would mean the FBI is naive for investigating 19 large corporations in relation to the subprime meltdown when all the answers they were looking for could be found in book keynes wrote prior to the great depression
call me naive if you want, but i think people are going to end up in a cell because of their role in bringing down the global economy, and i am looking forward to seeing justice served