If we are an accident, then what is the point?

because there's nothing else you can do besides die. and if nothing matters, and death is the end, then what's the difference if you die sooner or later? if there IS no difference, then asking "why should we live" is the same as asking "why shouldn't we live"

it's a matter of choice i guess, nobody's answer will be the same. after birth, it's essentially up to you to make the distinction between "there's no point to this, i think i'll die" and "i'm going to die anyway, so let's die doing something worth dying for".

and i'd say the only thing worth dying for...is living.

I have spent (wasted, some may say) millions of hours pondering the original question "what is the point?", and still cant arrive at a proper answer.

The way I see it is this:
Think of the whole world (earth) as a living breathing machine.
Everything upon it, in it, is one tiny piece of a much bigger component. All these little components fit together to make the earth evolve and regenerate and sustain all the components in a never-ending cycle.
If we take a component and study it, we can see that there is a chain of events that occur to sustain that one component - the food chain of a particular species, for instance.
That component has its 'point' or purpose.

i think that is what the point of this thread is about.

However, if we take the human race as a component, then it becomes very difficult to see 'the point', as our component doesn't seem to compliment the evolution of the earth or its inhabitants.
One could be really mordant (someone like me lol) and say that we are just a cancerous blight on the face of this once beautiful life cell.

If when we die we just decompose as everything else does, and everything ceases to be, then that is a whole nother debate.

The expected 'point to life' is to get by as best you can.
How well you have managed that, certainly in our western society, is measured by the amount of wealth one has acquired - wealth not only in material terms, but in many others too.

The 'actual' 'point of life' (in my opinion) is surely to enjoy this wonderous 'fluke' of universal nature, adapt to it (rather than adapt it to us), and nurture and preserve it for our future generations. Then die satisfied in wonder and awe.

Unfortunately, the human being seems to have overdeveloped what I call 'the greed gene' and as a result tends to aspire to the 'expected point of life', rather than 'the actual point of life'.

Res...

ok i dont feel like reading 3 pages of posts so here is my 2 cents.
Life is just a probability. We are furtunate enough to be alive. just because there isn't a meaning to life dosnt mean it isnt special. imagine the universe existed with absolutely no life. it couldn't be appreciated in all its glory.
i debated this question to myself when i became an atheist and you know what. its made me a better person.its totaly turned me around. i work hard at school now, all i want is to know more about the universe because its just so amazing.
so its just how you look at it. you can either appreciate the opportunity or you can waste it.

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Originally Posted by BathingApes

If life is indeed, a cosmic accident, what is the point to anything? If after death we cease to exist, why live?

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Ah, but isn't that exactly backwards?

Depending on how we approach the question, the meaning of life might not be that hard to understand: If there is a "Meaning", then there must be an organizing force with an agenda. Now, if there is a force capable of designing the universe, life, us, and etc. in order to achieve a particular goal, then it stands to reason that the universe is a necessary (to the creating being) tool of such great complexity that we cannot even begin to understand the end goal.

On the other hand, say the universe exists because the universe exists, say the laws of physics and the basic functioning of the universe around us exist simply because they exist and not because something bigger decided that he/she/it wanted this all to exist. That means that we have at our disposal certain resources: our time, our minds, our friends and acquaintances, our finances, and etc. We have the ability to manage the resources at our disposal and to combine resources toward common goals. We can build things together of great complexity that will still stand long after we as individuals are dead. We can build cultures and institutions, machines and infrastructure, literature and art, we can inspire those around us, we can learn and improve, and it all matters.

Now, the thing is, that under the second vision - the one where reality is reality and we don't need outside beings to make everything worthwhile - is not a vision devoid of meaning and beauty. Being able to explain the physics (dust particles, condensation, refraction, light wavelengths, etc.) of a sunset does not rob it of its beauty. A Thing can be more than the sum of its parts, and is not robbed of it's beauty by explanation. Life is more than the sum of its parts. What we build matters, how we live and interact with our neighbors matters, and what we leave behind (both in the sense of the outcome of our lives' works, and the memories and impression we have left on our friends, families, neighbors, and associates).

So no, life without gods, goddesses, daemons, ghosts, afterlife, prelife, purgatory, heaven, hell, reincarnation, etc. is not without meaning - IT'S LIFE!, Hell, how much more meaning can you get than that: THIS IS LIFE, don't screw it up 'cause it's all you've got. When you do screw up, learn from your mistakes, 'cause this is life and it's the only one you've got. Help others when you can, if you can make someone else's life better without sacrificing too much yourself, then do so - this is the only life they will get too.

It could only be stripped of meaning if we decide to make it so, by imagining (for instance) that everything we see and do every day were nothing but some kind of pre-show for heaven or for the amusement of some creature so advanced that we are like ants in comparison (aka a god).

It seems that most people agree you only live one time... I do not know if this is true or not. However, if we look at life in this way (one and done) then it is easy to say that nothing matters. I see where this comes from. So This outlook seems rather bleak...I'm basically screwed in the end so "let's just enjoy the time we have".

I too enjoy the time I have. I'm just surprised nobody has said anything about reincarnation. It seems most of the ideas here are compatible with reincarnation and it gives you the "why should I live/lead a good life" aspect. There is a lot of research to back up past lives and that the soul exists after death. It is a very old idea that pops up a lot throughout history.

Look at how many religions include reincarnation in thier ideology. Reincarnation was initially accepted by the Christian faith until it became the state religion of Rome. It is also pointed out that an underground of mystical movements such as the Gnostics, Cathars, Sufis, and Kabbalists have always accepted reincarnation as a core spiritual belief.

Look at Socrates' very convincing arguments for the immortality of the soul. The one that originally got me was in the Phaedo when socrates is on his death bed . Do you people really not believe in the soul? Read some other books, do some research. I recently read "many lives many masters" by brian weiss and I recommend it for anyone with an open mind. It made a lot of sense to me.

Maybe the life you're living is just one plane of the many that every soul must live and learn on. There are certain lessons you have to learn here on earth. You have to keep coming back till you do whatever you need to do. This theory could help explain child phenoms, people that can speak foreign languages with no training, and many people that can recall past lives under hypnosis. Sometimes you carry things from a past life to your current one.You have to keep coming back until you learn what you have to learn. The goal is to become god-like through knowledge. The unexamined life is not worth living. Even if you don't believe in these things you still owe it to yourself to learn about everything you can. These are all just thoughts to get you started. Do some research. I feel like I'm writing a book.

A question I've been thinking about lately...(maybe someone can help me out)... If you apply this reincarnation model or whatever to life with the idea of evolution. Did souls always exist, even in the earliest humans or even prehumans? Does this mean apes and such have souls? Or was it over the course of history people discovered this soul? Surely it can't be that at some point everyone just got a new soul. Where did they come from, when did it all start? This is all assuming you believe in one soul, many bodies mind you.

Douglas Adams might say:

In the entire wonderfully long and strange history of the universe, only two people ever came close to figuring out the true meaning of life. One was a galforaxian named Tuz Hjark who spent 100 years in an intense ritualistic meditative coma as was customary to his peaceful people. The other was a human from the planet earth who had recently smoked the leaves of a weed commonly used as an intoxicant. Putting aside his rudimentary smoking device he proclaimed to his red-eyed friends, "Dude... I just got it. I mean like, all of it!" Unfortunately, moments after making his statement, the earth was vaporized by a Vogon construction ship making way for an intergalactic bypass.

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Originally Posted by partcleguy

Douglas Adams might say:

In the entire wonderfully long and strange history of the universe, only two people ever came close to figuring out the true meaning of life. One was a galforaxian named Tuz Hjark who spent 100 years in an intense ritualistic meditative coma as was customary to his peaceful people. The other was a human from the planet earth who had recently smoked the leaves of a weed commonly used as an intoxicant. Putting aside his rudimentary smoking device he proclaimed to his red-eyed friends, "Dude... I just got it. I mean like, all of it!" Unfortunately, moments after making his statement, the earth was vaporized by a Vogon construction ship making way for an intergalactic bypass.

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hehehe :D

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Originally Posted by DrSpoof

Why does there need to be a point, though? Aren't the things you experience made even better by the fact that there's no afterlife (if true)? Wouldn't that be even more reason to enjoy every second--because thats all you get...? :rastasmoke:

DrSpiggs

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Originally Posted by MadSativa

If you have to ask why live then your not living enough.

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Originally Posted by bhouncy

It's the journey. Enjoy it.

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Originally Posted by vej33

because there's nothing else you can do besides die. and if nothing matters, and death is the end, then what's the difference if you die sooner or later? if there IS no difference, then asking "why should we live" is the same as asking "why shouldn't we live"

it's a matter of choice i guess, nobody's answer will be the same. after birth, it's essentially up to you to make the distinction between "there's no point to this, i think i'll die" and "i'm going to die anyway, so let's die doing something worth dying for".

and i'd say the only thing worth dying for...is living.

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I thought these were good!

Survival is the reason for life. All other life forms on earth have a main theme in common and its survival. I find the best way to look at things like this is to take the entire animal kingdom (except humans) and think about it in that perspective. Humans have just complicated the equation with all our feelings and extreme emotions. It can either be a beautiful gift or a dangerous tool depending on how we decide to use it.

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Originally Posted by rebgirl420

Because even though we are an accident we are a very good accident. In my opinion what's a better reason to keep on living and existing than the fact that our existense is so extraordinary. There isn't a meaning to life except what you personally make it.

Run with it I say. Be the best freak accident you can be.

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awesome...that was the most beautiful thing ive ever read of yours

and we dont "cease" to exist when we die topic starter. Our energy, just transcends into another part of the universe. so dont worry, its never over. our bodies are light, our minds are eternal

and maybe the only reason there has to be a meaning, starts with our questions..meaning...if you dont question, but accept, then everything is understood